I have a love/hate relationship with PVP in MMOs. Ultimately, though, it comes down to three factors:
1: Is it forced? If so, that's instantly a turn off. I dislike games that force PVE players and PVP players to interact when they don't want to. It isn't fun for either side: Pure PVE players don't want other people to get in their way or spoil their fun, and pure PVP players don't want to deal with people who aren't on the same page and who whine at them whenever they lose in a match. The best PVP is the PVP you can opt into or out of.
2: Is it well balanced? This goes without saying, but its amazing how many factors PVP games tend not to take into account. For instance, your character classes, skills and weapons can all be perfectly balanced and fair, but if there's no matchmaking to go with it, then it's all for nought. Additionally, if it's possible to gank, especially against lower-level players, then that's not balanced PVP, either. In order to be fun, PVP needs to be fair. Call me a "carebear" or a "casual" if you like, but if I'm not enjoying every bit of the PVP - both winning and losing - then I'm probably not going to take part in it.
3: What's the community like? This one, unfortunately, seems to be luck of the draw these days. Because even if everything else is done well, a toxic and abusive community can kill my desire to PVP (or in some cases, play at all). Some prime examples that jump to mind are APB: Reloaded and Archeage. Both games with very strong PVP emphasis that I greatly enjoyed in their early days. Both absolutely ruined by their prospective communities. This doesn't seem to be such a big issue in PVE focused games, either. Something about the competitive, conflicting nature of heavily PVP based games (or even just games that have very robust PVP) seems to attract those most despicable of people. I could go into detail about all the problems those two games I mentioned had in terms of community... But we'd be here all day.
At the end of the day, I don't think it's so much a hatred towards PVP itself, as it is a hatred towards the poorly executed ways in which many MMOs do PVP, and the kinds of people that said MMOs tend to attract. PVP isn't a bad concept by itself, but it's very hard to do right, and most games don't manage that, sadly.
No. Just not for everyone. I was watching a youtuber (so many) and he began gripe about some game. I can't remember which , but his big gripe were not being given early notice of new gear and what not so he could stay so competitive and get it first or early. Ugh, so not what I play mmorpgs for, but to each his own.
No. Just not for everyone. I was watching a youtuber (so many) and he began gripe about some game. I can't remember which , but his big gripe were not being given early notice of new gear and what not so he could stay so competitive and get it first or early. Ugh, so not what I play mmorpgs for, but to each his own.
This right here.
The competitive nature of some game's PVP really goes to people's heads. There are certain kinds of player who care nothing for a game beyond how high and fast they can get their name on some leaderboard so that they can rub their giant e-peen in the face of everybody else.
The best PVP in MMOs is the sort that has context. Not just blind, competitive aggression. Give me a reason to want to PVP other than "If I don't get good at PVP, I'll get ganked and sent back to the nearest res point."
There are plenty of games out there that are focused first and foremost to competitive multiplayer. But in my view, any MMO that has a PVE element as a major factor should not be one of them. If it is, then you get a conflict of interests between the players who want PVE content, the players who want PVP content, and the players who are there for both but not necessarily dedicated to either.
Most games can avoid major problems with this by separating the PVP and PVE into designated zones or modes. But this can sometimes leave games feeling dissonant and divided, with the PVE and PVP communities essentially playing completely different games, and anybody who wants to dabble between them being effectively buttslammed by the hardcore of each party.
But it's PVE games that force PVP with a strong focus on competitive multiplayer (not naming names, Archeage) that really tend to devolve into aggression-fuelled cesspits.
the randomness is what is fun about wpvp.. you never know what is going to happen. you might be out questing and you get jumped by some guy and then you completely destroy him, you might be attacked by a group so you call for reinforcements and send them fleeing... it's not all about the weak and totally useless pve player getting spanked by multiple godmode players as some of these posters would have you believe. anything can happen...
pvp overall is a thing i cherish when it comes to MMO's. especially the faction v faction style. it makes you feel like you are a part of something. that coupled with leveling experience & lore makes it far more interesting than mobas or shooters could ever be.
I play MMOs to build up my character and progress in game in various ways. PvP is an important aspect of an MMO but shouldn't be present if a player so decides AND should always be somehow connected with the rest of the game (not like an instanced mini game with a progress ladder of its own).
PvP is a great feature to motivate players to progress and gear up, but unfortunately most MMOs keep PvE and PvP separate like they were different games. There shouldn't be PvE'ers and PvP'ers within a same game. Until developers realise this MMOs are massively single player games with a MOBA on the top.
If everybody hated PvP then pure PvP games like LoL, DOTA2, CS:GO etc would not have so many players and viewers. People love PvP, people love competition, what people don't like is being ganked by a no lifer trash who find it fun ruining someone's entertainment time.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
People love PvP, people love competition, what people don't like is being ganked by a no lifer trash who find it fun ruining someone's entertainment time.
the randomness is what is fun about wpvp.. you never know what is going to happen. you might be out questing and you get jumped by some guy and then you completely destroy him, you might be attacked by a group so you call for reinforcements and send them fleeing... it's not all about the weak and totally useless pve player getting spanked by multiple godmode players as some of these posters would have you believe. anything can happen...
The whole "anything can happen" thing is only fun on a subjective level.
I'm sure it's loads of fun to get together with a gang of friends and then go and beat up other gangs of players in a WPVP game. But if I'm just trying to do questing or crafting or resource gathering (or, as the case may be, getting from one end of the zone to the other) then I might tolerate getting slammed into the dust by a roving killsquad maybe once, twice at most.
But the moment it stops being "Surprise PVP! Hope you're ready for it!" and "Oh, you wanted to get to that next zone area? Too bad, your healthbar's gone in less than 2 seconds." then my patience for the system runs out.
It might not "just" be about ganking the PVE players while buffed out the ears with godmode potions, but as far as I'm concerned, any game that features that at all isn't worth the frustration.
Honestly, I'd rather a game had either great PVP content, great PVE content, or a good and optional mix between the two, rather than trying to force two groups of players together who clearly don't get along.
People love PvP, people love competition, what people don't like is being ganked by a no lifer trash who find it fun ruining someone's entertainment time.
Best idea adopted by the worst people. Yup.
I am not sure that "pvp" in mmorpg were ever a good idea. Even if you go back as far as UO, games allowed stronger players to ganbang weaker ones, the system itself was designed to be non-competitive. And it has not changed in modern mmorpg, not at all, you can talk about GW2 WvsW but that is also a kind of instance. PvP at it's core is competition, any system that pits players against each other without ensuring healthy competition is just welcoming this kind of behavior. I think the problem here is how "PvP" is implemented in mmorpg.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Answers
1: Is it forced? If so, that's instantly a turn off. I dislike games that force PVE players and PVP players to interact when they don't want to. It isn't fun for either side: Pure PVE players don't want other people to get in their way or spoil their fun, and pure PVP players don't want to deal with people who aren't on the same page and who whine at them whenever they lose in a match. The best PVP is the PVP you can opt into or out of.
2: Is it well balanced? This goes without saying, but its amazing how many factors PVP games tend not to take into account. For instance, your character classes, skills and weapons can all be perfectly balanced and fair, but if there's no matchmaking to go with it, then it's all for nought. Additionally, if it's possible to gank, especially against lower-level players, then that's not balanced PVP, either. In order to be fun, PVP needs to be fair. Call me a "carebear" or a "casual" if you like, but if I'm not enjoying every bit of the PVP - both winning and losing - then I'm probably not going to take part in it.
3: What's the community like? This one, unfortunately, seems to be luck of the draw these days. Because even if everything else is done well, a toxic and abusive community can kill my desire to PVP (or in some cases, play at all). Some prime examples that jump to mind are APB: Reloaded and Archeage. Both games with very strong PVP emphasis that I greatly enjoyed in their early days. Both absolutely ruined by their prospective communities. This doesn't seem to be such a big issue in PVE focused games, either. Something about the competitive, conflicting nature of heavily PVP based games (or even just games that have very robust PVP) seems to attract those most despicable of people. I could go into detail about all the problems those two games I mentioned had in terms of community... But we'd be here all day.
At the end of the day, I don't think it's so much a hatred towards PVP itself, as it is a hatred towards the poorly executed ways in which many MMOs do PVP, and the kinds of people that said MMOs tend to attract. PVP isn't a bad concept by itself, but it's very hard to do right, and most games don't manage that, sadly.
I dont really enjoy PvP very often, but i wouldn't say i hate it.
The competitive nature of some game's PVP really goes to people's heads. There are certain kinds of player who care nothing for a game beyond how high and fast they can get their name on some leaderboard so that they can rub their giant e-peen in the face of everybody else.
The best PVP in MMOs is the sort that has context. Not just blind, competitive aggression. Give me a reason to want to PVP other than "If I don't get good at PVP, I'll get ganked and sent back to the nearest res point."
There are plenty of games out there that are focused first and foremost to competitive multiplayer. But in my view, any MMO that has a PVE element as a major factor should not be one of them. If it is, then you get a conflict of interests between the players who want PVE content, the players who want PVP content, and the players who are there for both but not necessarily dedicated to either.
Most games can avoid major problems with this by separating the PVP and PVE into designated zones or modes. But this can sometimes leave games feeling dissonant and divided, with the PVE and PVP communities essentially playing completely different games, and anybody who wants to dabble between them being effectively buttslammed by the hardcore of each party.
But it's PVE games that force PVP with a strong focus on competitive multiplayer (not naming names, Archeage) that really tend to devolve into aggression-fuelled cesspits.
pvp overall is a thing i cherish when it comes to MMO's. especially the faction v faction style. it makes you feel like you are a part of something. that coupled with leveling experience & lore makes it far more interesting than mobas or shooters could ever be.
I had fun once, it was terrible.
PvP is a great feature to motivate players to progress and gear up, but unfortunately most MMOs keep PvE and PvP separate like they were different games. There shouldn't be PvE'ers and PvP'ers within a same game. Until developers realise this MMOs are massively single player games with a MOBA on the top.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
I'm sure it's loads of fun to get together with a gang of friends and then go and beat up other gangs of players in a WPVP game. But if I'm just trying to do questing or crafting or resource gathering (or, as the case may be, getting from one end of the zone to the other) then I might tolerate getting slammed into the dust by a roving killsquad maybe once, twice at most.
But the moment it stops being "Surprise PVP! Hope you're ready for it!" and "Oh, you wanted to get to that next zone area? Too bad, your healthbar's gone in less than 2 seconds." then my patience for the system runs out.
It might not "just" be about ganking the PVE players while buffed out the ears with godmode potions, but as far as I'm concerned, any game that features that at all isn't worth the frustration.
Honestly, I'd rather a game had either great PVP content, great PVE content, or a good and optional mix between the two, rather than trying to force two groups of players together who clearly don't get along.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.