Ok time to put my "experience" forward I am studying a degree in computer science which includes programming if you didn't already know.
I fully understand that they teach multiple languages. But what I will disagree with there is no way they taught you java, html, and c++ in two years.
Also IF you had studied at college you would understand that people to become profficient in their field specialise in a specific style of programming and therefore someone who is an expert at developing games would not be an expert in web design.
I never said SBS couldn't fix the issues just that it was taking them longer because they are not experts in web design/programming...
The fact that you only have limited theoretical knowledge and no practical business experience is of no concern to me.
The technical expertise aspects of the web store implementation are irrelevant.
What IS relevant is that SBS appear to have shown a complete lack of any project management skills.
They misjudged the features of the web store package that they had bought. They misjudged the complexity of modifying it. They misjudged the difficulty of implementing it.
The quality and reliability of their judgement is crucial to them meeting future deadlines. Much of what they promised relies on whether they have correctly judged the capabilities of the various off-the-shelf software solutions they have judged to be suitable for their needs.
So far their judgement has been atrocious.
Again...
DING DING DING
Winner!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Distopia said:
Considering a group that have been running a website for years are having their own kinks in getting their new service running, and have been put in a position of delaying their implementation for quite a while (not hard to figure out who I'm referring to).. I don't think it's that big of a deal.
Besides it's not like the statement isn't true... bitching, really won't help anything. Just as it wouldn't on a certain other site....cough..cough...
Isn't this more or less a caveat like SC is running for more funding?
While having a slight delay wouldn't be all that big deal in general, this is a bit different.
1) Their team and budget is tiny thus any delay is very, very costly. 2) The reason for delay isn't just some "kink", it is due gross understimation and bad project management. 3) They intend to use middleware heavily and this is their first opportunity to use is. Using middleware isn't something simple, despite it seems like it provides easy solutions.
4) They have some truly dubiously short development cycle for MMO. 5) In no way shape and form their reaction to player "feedback" is acceptable.
It isn't only about just a website, it all adds up...
I wouldn't deny any of this, it could all very well be true. I still don't think bitching will solve those problems.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Maybe the games industry has exceptionally lenient management (I doubt that), but I could probably name a dozen major companies who would have already severed ties with anyone who essentially (and rather publicly) told the potential customers to "be quiet, we're working on it". Almost anywhere else, that kind of customer relations gaffe is rewarded with a pink slip.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
They are interviewing a full time web designer on Monday!!
Hmmm.. Seems a bit like closing the barn door after the horse has bolted... but it is what it is.
There's hope yet, lol
Perhaps they are learning from their mistakes. Perhaps not.
What they should be doing is engaging a short-term contractor with experience of working with the specific web store application that they bought. Someone that can "hit the ground running" and get the job done. Fast.
Jeromy Walsh needs to wake up very quickly and realize that this game is not going to be made by 2 or 3 people in 18 months. Or even 36 months...
CoE is going to be a huge and difficult project, and the sooner they scale things up, the better their chances of ever delivering anything worthwhile.
Hmmm. Well I'm on record numerous times saying I think this game project just sounds too good to be true. However what exactly does this heaping helping of hysteria actually accomplish? Well other than the obvious ego stroking, in the vein of "SEE I WAS RIGHT!! I KNOW THE TRUTH" desperate attention seeking?
The fact of the matter is even the most major MMO companies have whizzed things down their legs on numerous occasions, updates, patch roll outs, server maintenance, sever transfers, online stores, etc. I fail to see how Soulbound Studios experiencing technical difficulties redesigning their webstore is proof of anything other than the inevitable Murphy's Law.
I'll chalk it up to Murphy's Law.
Just curious how many times we get to use this defense?
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
They are interviewing a full time web designer on Monday!!
Hmmm.. Seems a bit like closing the barn door after the horse has bolted... but it is what it is.
GrumpyHobbit will be disappointed...
GrumpyHobbit said:
They have a small team and when looking at priorities for spending I am glad they would rather hire a computer programmer over a web designer.
Let's see... excuses being made for gross acts of incompetence, critics being told to be quiet or "Stop being negative," people blatantly ignoring facts presented to them, strawmen, ad hominems, etc.
This looks like the kind of thread seen around the launch of every failed MMO ever, and this game isn't even in pre-alpha yet! I'm impressed!
Look, PoE is another game that's promising the moon, being made by a team with a very limited budget and little to no experience, and it's already starting to show. Most of us on these forums have done this song and dance before. If these guys can't even get their store working right, that does not bode well for the final product.
*sigh* You'd think after Wildstar, SWTOR, Darkfall, Salem, Conan, etc. that people would learn to be more realistic with their expectations, but alas.
They are interviewing a full time web designer on Monday!!
Hmmm.. Seems a bit like closing the barn door after the horse has bolted... but it is what it is.
GrumpyHobbit will be disappointed...
GrumpyHobbit said:
They have a small team and when looking at priorities for spending I am glad they would rather hire a computer programmer over a web designer.
Otherwise, priceless.
I wanted to press the "LOL" button but didn't want to look like a "LOL" stalker, so...
LOL.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Both sides are probably overreacting over the website stuff specifically. Do flubs happen? Yes. Do they look good? No. Does this really have any bearing on the quality of the game? Probably not.
The larger issue, as I said, is the tone of the community relations, which actually does represent an ongoing pattern for this development team. It's not only disrespectful, it's also childish and unnecessary. Part of customer service - in fact, many would argue, the root of it - is learning to deal with unsatisfied people without shouting with equal volume back into their faces. Not only did Soulbound Studios apparently never learn that key principle, but they refuse to even view it as a priority for change.
THAT'S an enormous red flag.
THAT'S the problem with this - that you've got a game being developed, essentially, by pedantic children in the midst of one of a series of temper tantrums, who don't possess the wherewithal or even common sense to approach their customer base pragmatically.
Hmmm. Well I'm on record numerous times saying I think this game project just sounds too good to be true. However what exactly does this heaping helping of hysteria actually accomplish? Well other than the obvious ego stroking, in the vein of "SEE I WAS RIGHT!! I KNOW THE TRUTH" desperate attention seeking?
The fact of the matter is even the most major MMO companies have whizzed things down their legs on numerous occasions, updates, patch roll outs, server maintenance, sever transfers, online stores, etc. I fail to see how Soulbound Studios experiencing technical difficulties redesigning their webstore is proof of anything other than the inevitable Murphy's Law.
I'll chalk it up to Murphy's Law.
Just curious how many times we get to use this defense?
Always remember, Murphy was an optimist.
Oh and by the way, put a smile on my face with your post and I will give you a LOL, because that is what I think that button is for.
Fairly easy to do like mmorpg.com does and outsource to a third party to make your website and run it behind the scenes. The actual hard part is when your dealing with loads of data from many many years of an old website.
But seeing as how they are making a NEW website from the group up I just do not see why they are having issues getting the new site up. Might just be that SBS decided to do it all on there own without a web developer / third party and figured it would be easy. I mean designing and creating a full MMO in a engine not designed for it within a little more then a years time frame is easy cake. Or atleast they have lead us to believe. Just buy alot of store assets and twinkle your fingers and talk to some third part software and get them to do the grunt work of intergrating there tech into said engine within that time frame and then design the entire world with a small team. I mean what could really go wrong here.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Drama, Drama, Drama... Why are so many here woried about a game they have never backed or beleived in? Why the panic whith a new, ground up website with a international store have a few hickups in migration? Do you actually think the entire company's reputation is in the toilet because of the small team having a two day delay in flushing out some bugs on the backend? Is the game doomed to fail due to this delay? Will the game be delayed because of one weekend?
Tisk Tisk... so many have nothing else to compain about so they go looking for something, anything to talk about. It must be so nice to have such a uncluttered life with no other problems in it.
Drama, Drama, Drama... Why are so many here woried about a game they have never backed or beleived in? Why the panic whith a new, ground up website with a international store have a few hickups in migration? Do you actually think the entire company's reputation is in the toilet because of the small team having a two day delay in flushing out some bugs on the backend? Is the game doomed to fail due to this delay? Will the game be delayed because of one weekend?
Tisk Tisk... so many have nothing else to compain about so they go looking for something, anything to talk about. It must be so nice to have such a uncluttered life with no other problems in it.
Let's break that down....
"ground up website" They've previewed mockups of the website and it is nearly the same cosmetically. That means only certain parts are impacted by what they are doing. They aren't building a whole new site with a new look and everything.
"with a international store" Most ecommerce solutions you find are international ready out of the box. They are having a problem putting all the pieces of influence points, gift rewards, and all the other shit they over-promised together into one nice package.
"a few hickups" A few hiccups would mean an hour or two delay from their estimated two hours of down time. They've been down nearly as many days as they said they would be hours. They should have had the website done before even mentioning it but they clearly didn't and it gets to gnaw on their ass for awhile for making a stupid decision.
"Do you actually think the entire company's reputation is in the toilet
because of the small team having a two day delay in flushing out some
bugs on the backend? Is the game doomed to fail due to this delay? Will
the game be delayed because of one weekend?" They have no reputation as a development studio. We only have to go on how they do from the time they got our money (yes I backed them. I now wish I didn't but not much can be done.). They are promising what other studios with more talent and backing have not been able to do, but they can't either migrate their data themselves or have the ability to realize they are over their heads and hire professional help to do it for them. That's shitty management and management is what will drive a project into the ground.
"Tisk Tisk... so many have nothing else to compain about so they go
looking for something, anything to talk about. It must be so nice to
have such a uncluttered life with no other problems in it." I have money on the table. I know, say that I should only back what I can lose. I have but I don't look at my money as a donation, I look at it like an investment and I would've already replaced Jeromy if I had anything to do with it.
THAT'S the problem with this - that you've got a game being developed, essentially, by pedantic children in the midst of one of a series of temper tantrums, who don't possess the wherewithal or even common sense to approach their customer base pragmatically.
I think it's disingenuous for people to treat this type of thing based on the treatment they're used to receiving in retail or sit in dining. Which is where most of this "respect the customer" mentality has evolved from. If people did what folks do online at any place of business they'd be told where the door is as well. In certain cases they'd also leave with a punch in the face or in handcuffs...
The ever lasting mob mentality online is just ridiculous, it's like having a five year old in the back asking if we're there yet, while kicking your seat every 2 seconds and throwing poo on you. I think Devs as it stands let the mob get away with too much, I personally applaud the few that get fed up enough to just say STFU.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
THAT'S the problem with this - that you've got a game being developed, essentially, by pedantic children in the midst of one of a series of temper tantrums, who don't possess the wherewithal or even common sense to approach their customer base pragmatically.
I think it's disingenuous for people to treat this type of thing based on the treatment they're used to receiving in retail or sit in dining. Which is where most of this "respect the customer" mentality has evolved from. If people did what folks do online at any place of business they'd be told where the door is as well. In certain cases they'd also leave with a punch in the face or in handcuffs...
The ever lasting mob mentality online is just ridiculous, it's like having a five year old in the back asking if we're there yet, while kicking your seat every 2 seconds and throwing poo on you. I think Devs as it stands let the mob get away with too much, I personally applaud the few that get fed up enough to just say STFU.
Comments
DING DING DING
Winner!
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
They are interviewing a full time web designer on Monday!!
Hmmm..
Seems a bit like closing the barn door after the horse has bolted... but it is what it is.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Perhaps they are learning from their mistakes. Perhaps not.
What they should be doing is engaging a short-term contractor with experience of working with the specific web store application that they bought. Someone that can "hit the ground running" and get the job done. Fast.
Jeromy Walsh needs to wake up very quickly and realize that this game is not going to be made by 2 or 3 people in 18 months. Or even 36 months...
CoE is going to be a huge and difficult project, and the sooner they scale things up, the better their chances of ever delivering anything worthwhile.
Just curious how many times we get to use this defense?
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Otherwise, priceless.
This looks like the kind of thread seen around the launch of every failed MMO ever, and this game isn't even in pre-alpha yet! I'm impressed!
Look, PoE is another game that's promising the moon, being made by a team with a very limited budget and little to no experience, and it's already starting to show. Most of us on these forums have done this song and dance before. If these guys can't even get their store working right, that does not bode well for the final product.
*sigh* You'd think after Wildstar, SWTOR, Darkfall, Salem, Conan, etc. that people would learn to be more realistic with their expectations, but alas.
LOL.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer
Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The larger issue, as I said, is the tone of the community relations, which actually does represent an ongoing pattern for this development team. It's not only disrespectful, it's also childish and unnecessary. Part of customer service - in fact, many would argue, the root of it - is learning to deal with unsatisfied people without shouting with equal volume back into their faces. Not only did Soulbound Studios apparently never learn that key principle, but they refuse to even view it as a priority for change.
THAT'S an enormous red flag.
THAT'S the problem with this - that you've got a game being developed, essentially, by pedantic children in the midst of one of a series of temper tantrums, who don't possess the wherewithal or even common sense to approach their customer base pragmatically.
Unless they intend to consistently outperform these "industry veterans", they have no hope of delivering what they have promised...
Oh and by the way, put a smile on my face with your post and I will give you a LOL, because that is what I think that button is for.
Since he was entire time trying to play down the issue from the position of (self)touted industry professional and seasoned business person: Under the light of current events, it raises a question:
Who shows the lack of expertise for hiring a web developer, GrumpyHobbit or SBS?
Very nasty situation we got there...nasty, nasty nasty...
But seeing as how they are making a NEW website from the group up I just do not see why they are having issues getting the new site up. Might just be that SBS decided to do it all on there own without a web developer / third party and figured it would be easy. I mean designing and creating a full MMO in a engine not designed for it within a little more then a years time frame is easy cake. Or atleast they have lead us to believe. Just buy alot of store assets and twinkle your fingers and talk to some third part software and get them to do the grunt work of intergrating there tech into said engine within that time frame and then design the entire world with a small team. I mean what could really go wrong here.
kickstart it to the curb.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
As for my statement, the only way it would be nonsensical, is for it not to be true, are you saying bitching will solve the issue?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Tisk Tisk... so many have nothing else to compain about so they go looking for something, anything to talk about. It must be so nice to have such a uncluttered life with no other problems in it.
"ground up website"
They've previewed mockups of the website and it is nearly the same cosmetically. That means only certain parts are impacted by what they are doing. They aren't building a whole new site with a new look and everything.
"with a international store"
Most ecommerce solutions you find are international ready out of the box. They are having a problem putting all the pieces of influence points, gift rewards, and all the other shit they over-promised together into one nice package.
"a few hickups"
A few hiccups would mean an hour or two delay from their estimated two hours of down time. They've been down nearly as many days as they said they would be hours. They should have had the website done before even mentioning it but they clearly didn't and it gets to gnaw on their ass for awhile for making a stupid decision.
"Do you actually think the entire company's reputation is in the toilet because of the small team having a two day delay in flushing out some bugs on the backend? Is the game doomed to fail due to this delay? Will the game be delayed because of one weekend?"
They have no reputation as a development studio. We only have to go on how they do from the time they got our money (yes I backed them. I now wish I didn't but not much can be done.). They are promising what other studios with more talent and backing have not been able to do, but they can't either migrate their data themselves or have the ability to realize they are over their heads and hire professional help to do it for them. That's shitty management and management is what will drive a project into the ground.
"Tisk Tisk... so many have nothing else to compain about so they go looking for something, anything to talk about. It must be so nice to have such a uncluttered life with no other problems in it."
I have money on the table. I know, say that I should only back what I can lose. I have but I don't look at my money as a donation, I look at it like an investment and I would've already replaced Jeromy if I had anything to do with it.
The ever lasting mob mentality online is just ridiculous, it's like having a five year old in the back asking if we're there yet, while kicking your seat every 2 seconds and throwing poo on you. I think Devs as it stands let the mob get away with too much, I personally applaud the few that get fed up enough to just say STFU.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Just let that sink in a bit there.