I love PG for what it's trying to do but I believe that too little thought was given about real world social implications.
As with any MMO, it's incredibly difficult for developers to predict the myriad of ways that players will use ingame systems once 200K or 300K players descend on it.
And that's not even taking cultural differences into account. Some things that are quite acceptable in the West are unthinkable in the East, and vice versa.
PG is a whole new paradigm, mistakes will undoubtedly be a part of it.
The Goggles Fallacy: "But then there are also those who see these experiences as somehow qualitatively different. The commonest argument given is what I call "the goggles fallacy." Goggles or phones, as Pokémon GO is demonstrating, are just clients. "
You Are the Client: "You are the avatar."
Koster is jumping the shark here. I understand where he's coming from, but i wouldn't classify this game as an MMO or even as AR though.
Are goggles needed? Not necessarily, but the tech specs from a phone's camera, are vastly different than from a Google Glass or HoloLens.
For one, a phone's camera is not holographic. Secondly, what's being displayed on the phone is not augmenting your vision the way a goggle's lens would. It gets more technical, but i'm not really savvy on all the details.
I am. Savvy on the details, that is.
My whole point is that it is the server which determines whether something is a virtual world, not the client. That's why MUDs and MMOs are also the same.
FWIW, the first AR games happened when ther were only feature phones, and you had to call in on pay phones to get status updates.
After a bit more reading, i'll have to concede that it's actually AR. The hardware tech still matters though. Not that wikipedia is an authority, but this description is pretty spot on.
"The two main advantages of handheld AR is the portable nature of handheld devices and ubiquitous nature of camera phones. The disadvantages are the physical constraints of the user having to hold the handheld device out in front of them at all times as well as distorting effect of classically wide-angled mobile phone cameras when compared to the real world as viewed through the eye."
The Mans house that was a poke gym, was because of google maps, he converted his house from and old church, that wasnt changed on google maps, all he has/had to do was contact the creator. Not as big a problem as people are making it out to be
Thing is that no one should have to do that. Poke Gyms or whatever should be something that people sign up for or placed on, for instance, government buildings, local landmarks or in and around local parks, etc.
Also, and while I abhor Westboro Baptist Church, the fact that the location is being "trolled" by players is disturbing. So any time someone is ticked off at someone else, or at some group for whatever reason, they suddenly become fair game for harassment by sending potentially thousands to tramp across their property?
I have to agree. It's always bad practice to force a product on people, then ask them to opt-out, as if they had any choice in the first place. I don't know whether they send players into private property, but the developers could possibly be facing some lawsuits.
And as AR tech improves, the potential for large scale interactive gaming will increase exponentially.
AR "MMO's" are not going to "kill" other forms of gaming, but as Pokemon GO has so eloquently demonstrated, there's a very real market here, and the only limit is your imagination.
The commercial aspects here are limitless. You object to spending $20 for an outfit in a F2P cash shop ? How about spending $100 on a REAL piece of clothing with a Pokemon-themed design on it ? Or a jacket with your team's Pokemon ID on it ?
That's assuming the game has any longevity to it. It's currently in hype mode, but so were Angry Birds and Flappy Bird. Mobile games have no longevity, especially when compared to the typical MMOs, such as swtor & wow.
And as AR tech improves, the potential for large scale interactive gaming will increase exponentially.
AR "MMO's" are not going to "kill" other forms of gaming, but as Pokemon GO has so eloquently demonstrated, there's a very real market here, and the only limit is your imagination.
The commercial aspects here are limitless. You object to spending $20 for an outfit in a F2P cash shop ? How about spending $100 on a REAL piece of clothing with a Pokemon-themed design on it ? Or a jacket with your team's Pokemon ID on it ?
That's assuming the game has any longevity to it. It's currently in hype mode, but so were Angry Birds and Flappy Bird. Mobile games have no longevity, especially when compared to the typical MMOs, such as swtor & wow.
Think of Pokemon GO as a "proof-of-concept".
It will undoubtedly fade away, but it has put the whole idea of AR games firmly in the spotlight.
It's not the first AR game, but it's the one that everyone's going to remember.
And as AR tech improves, the potential for large scale interactive gaming will increase exponentially.
AR "MMO's" are not going to "kill" other forms of gaming, but as Pokemon GO has so eloquently demonstrated, there's a very real market here, and the only limit is your imagination.
The commercial aspects here are limitless. You object to spending $20 for an outfit in a F2P cash shop ? How about spending $100 on a REAL piece of clothing with a Pokemon-themed design on it ? Or a jacket with your team's Pokemon ID on it ?
That's assuming the game has any longevity to it. It's currently in hype mode, but so were Angry Birds and Flappy Bird. Mobile games have no longevity, especially when compared to the typical MMOs, such as swtor & wow.
Think of Pokemon GO as a "proof-of-concept".
It will undoubtedly fade away, but it has put the whole idea of AR games firmly in the spotlight.
It's not the first AR game, but it's the one that everyone's going to remember.
Agreed, but that could also leave a negative impression for the future of AR. Just look at all the private property issues already. Mobile games leading the AR revolution? It doesn't sound promising. I'm a pessimist though. lol.
As a simple example, let's say an elderly person has people trampling their yard everyday looking for pokemon. Why should this elderly homeowner, who probably doesn't even know wtf a pokemon is, be responsible for "opting out" of something they likely had no idea even existed?
Interest is going to quickly die down when Home Associations ban the game in their neighborhoods and privately owned stores, associations, etc. start filing lawsuits, etc., etc.
Or when groups of pokemon hunters end up on someones property like myself, and I simply call the police and file trespassing charges against everyone.
And I ( and many others I suspect ) have absolutely no qualms about getting your little mister or miss their first criminal record.
Boy, that would quickly put you on the Police's yahoo list of folks who waste their time.
I personally see it as an issue of a cultural divide.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
what I find intresting from a marketing standpoint is how a game like Ingress can exist for almost 4 years and then out of the blue this (pokemon) happens in about the span of a day as if its never been done before.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
what I find intresting from a marketing standpoint is how a game like Ingress can exist for almost 4 years and then out of the blue this (pokemon) happens in about the span of a day as if its never been done before.
That's what happens when an IP already has a huge following.
what I find intresting from a marketing standpoint is how a game like Ingress can exist for almost 4 years and then out of the blue this (pokemon) happens in about the span of a day as if its never been done before.
That's what happens when an IP already has a huge following.
very fair point
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
what I find intresting from a marketing standpoint is how a game like Ingress can exist for almost 4 years and then out of the blue this (pokemon) happens in about the span of a day as if its never been done before.
That's what happens when an IP already has a huge following.
Now that Pokemon is successful, will MMOs be more like Pokemon?
I think they're gonna try! At the very least, I suspect we'll see a lot more AR-type tie-ins to the MMOs that we play at home.
As an example using WoW -- instead of earning Class Order Hall followers in Legion through the game itself, you have to go out and "find them" in the real world using an AR app of some sort. There would still be ones in the game for those who don't want to get them any other way, but others, perhaps unique to the app itself, could only be found IRL by walking around. The same could be said about battle pets or rare crafting materials or even mounts.
I would never in a million years be subjected to idiocy like that, and neither would anyone else I know who still plays WoW.
You forget that a lot of us - perhaps even a substantial majority of us - are using games as a social outlet because we find real life bar scenes or party life awkward and abhorrent. Acting like this is the future of the genre - a future that most MMOers are even looking for - is immensely short sighted of you. It's a stupid kid's game. Give it 2 months for school to start and you'll never hear about it again.
Now that Pokemon is successful, will MMOs be more like Pokemon?
I think they're gonna try! At the very least, I suspect we'll see a lot more AR-type tie-ins to the MMOs that we play at home.
As an example using WoW -- instead of earning Class Order Hall followers in Legion through the game itself, you have to go out and "find them" in the real world using an AR app of some sort. There would still be ones in the game for those who don't want to get them any other way, but others, perhaps unique to the app itself, could only be found IRL by walking around. The same could be said about battle pets or rare crafting materials or even mounts.
I would never in a million years be subjected to idiocy like that, and neither would anyone else I know who still plays WoW.
You forget that a lot of us - perhaps even a substantial majority of us - are using games as a social outlet because we find real life bar scenes or party life awkward and abhorrent. Acting like this is the future of the genre - a future that most MMOers are even looking for - is immensely short sighted of you. It's a stupid kid's game. Give it 2 months for school to start and you'll never hear about it again.
are you trying to say you see video games as a place to pick up chicks?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Now that Pokemon is successful, will MMOs be more like Pokemon?
I think they're gonna try! At the very least, I suspect we'll see a lot more AR-type tie-ins to the MMOs that we play at home.
As an example using WoW -- instead of earning Class Order Hall followers in Legion through the game itself, you have to go out and "find them" in the real world using an AR app of some sort. There would still be ones in the game for those who don't want to get them any other way, but others, perhaps unique to the app itself, could only be found IRL by walking around. The same could be said about battle pets or rare crafting materials or even mounts.
I would never in a million years be subjected to idiocy like that, and neither would anyone else I know who still plays WoW.
You forget that a lot of us - perhaps even a substantial majority of us - are using games as a social outlet because we find real life bar scenes or party life awkward and abhorrent. Acting like this is the future of the genre - a future that most MMOers are even looking for - is immensely short sighted of you. It's a stupid kid's game. Give it 2 months for school to start and you'll never hear about it again.
You must be great fun at parties, lol
Oh, nvm, I think you said you don't go to parties...
If I was 30 years younger, I would be out chasing Pokemon's !
I don't give a damn about the Pokemon's, but it looks like an excellent way to meet girls !
Now that Pokemon is successful, will MMOs be more like Pokemon?
I think they're gonna try! At the very least, I suspect we'll see a lot more AR-type tie-ins to the MMOs that we play at home.
As an example using WoW -- instead of earning Class Order Hall followers in Legion through the game itself, you have to go out and "find them" in the real world using an AR app of some sort. There would still be ones in the game for those who don't want to get them any other way, but others, perhaps unique to the app itself, could only be found IRL by walking around. The same could be said about battle pets or rare crafting materials or even mounts.
I would never in a million years be subjected to idiocy like that, and neither would anyone else I know who still plays WoW.
You forget that a lot of us - perhaps even a substantial majority of us - are using games as a social outlet because we find real life bar scenes or party life awkward and abhorrent. Acting like this is the future of the genre - a future that most MMOers are even looking for - is immensely short sighted of you. It's a stupid kid's game. Give it 2 months for school to start and you'll never hear about it again.
If you don't see the potential for use in MMOs, you're missing something. Pokemon Go isn't the end-all-be-all but it's certainly something that every game maker on the planet is watching with interest -- particularly those games that have a built in fan base to tap in to.
I don't use games as a social outlet, though that certainly is a side benefit for sure. I don't go to bars either, but this game, as simple as it is, has opened up new channels of discussion between my daughter and me so for that alone, it's fantastic and if we meet a few others along the way in this, or whatever the next "out of the park title is, then we're so much the richer.
Here where I live we have the "Castle doctrine", those PGo players better be careful whose home they invade. O.o
I was literally about to say that. In Texas simply being on someone's property without their authority is a legal reason to shoot them. If you have a no trespassing sign in your yard like I do, then you don't even have to ask them to leave, you can simply start shooting.
TBQFH, I really think that some terrible shit is going to happen to a few people before they rethink how this whole thing works.
Americans shoot and kill each other for even dumber reasons, so couple of hundred pokemon go deaths a year won't make national news.
Unbelievable.
Who knows ?
Shooting Pokemon-hunters with paintball guns may even become an "e-sport", lol
People could set up "dungeons" with a well-defended Pokespot at the center...
Until people start getting shot with "not" paintball guns in places like NW DC, west Baltimore, east Philli, and other bad places, that stupid oblivious people walk around in following some picture on a smart phone, and not realize they are in the effin ghetto.
Some people will get lit up doing this, guaranteed.
Edit: and yeah, some idiots will probably get beat up or shot for trespassing on people's private property, too. Just watch, it will happen.
Now that Pokemon is successful, will MMOs be more like Pokemon?
I think they're gonna try! At the very least, I suspect we'll see a lot more AR-type tie-ins to the MMOs that we play at home.
As an example using WoW -- instead of earning Class Order Hall followers in Legion through the game itself, you have to go out and "find them" in the real world using an AR app of some sort. There would still be ones in the game for those who don't want to get them any other way, but others, perhaps unique to the app itself, could only be found IRL by walking around. The same could be said about battle pets or rare crafting materials or even mounts.
I would never in a million years be subjected to idiocy like that, and neither would anyone else I know who still plays WoW.
You forget that a lot of us - perhaps even a substantial majority of us - are using games as a social outlet because we find real life bar scenes or party life awkward and abhorrent. Acting like this is the future of the genre - a future that most MMOers are even looking for - is immensely short sighted of you. It's a stupid kid's game. Give it 2 months for school to start and you'll never hear about it again.
If you don't see the potential for use in MMOs, you're missing something. Pokemon Go isn't the end-all-be-all but it's certainly something that every game maker on the planet is watching with interest -- particularly those games that have a built in fan base to tap in to.
I don't use games as a social outlet, though that certainly is a side benefit for sure. I don't go to bars either, but this game, as simple as it is, has opened up new channels of discussion between my daughter and me so for that alone, it's fantastic and if we meet a few others along the way in this, or whatever the next "out of the park title is, then we're so much the richer.
I'm not missing anything - I think you've misinterpreted a serious homebody strain of behavior that dominates a lot of people in video gaming in general: namely, that we aren't interested in taking this hobby (or any other) into the public realm.
I can't speak for everyone, of course - and there are clearly a lot of people who do enjoy Pokemon Go, absurd and dangerous as I find it. But that doesn't mean I can transfer that appeal directly into a feature for MMORPGs that obliges me to physically seek out other players/activities in the open world. I play these stupid games to escape reality, not have it foisted on me in the most ham-fisted method imaginable.
This is well done. They used a four year old database (Ingress), combined with a product that was created in 1995, combined with the latest AR tech gear that nearly everyone already has (smart phones).
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I wonder how many are still feeding their Tamagotchi.
I've still got a pet rock, in a box somewhere.
The latest fad too shall pass.
Sure Pokemon Go will and rightly so. Every new leap forward in any genre starts with a good first effort that is quickly forgotten.
I have my own issues with AR games but I don't begrudge game makers for wanting to make them, to try to come up with the "next big thing" and I don't begrudge players for wanting something like this. It will go through growing pains, and IMO, huge ones in this new explosively popular strain of AR, but it's going to be a factor in gaming whether we personally like it or choose to play it or not.
I still don't play on consoles and probably never will. But I love some of the games that I've watched my kiddo play.
Kinda reminds me of this little note in history (and thousands of others before it!)
Rock’n’roll music has defied its critics. When it debuted in the 1950s, many adults ridiculed the phenomenon. Elvis, Chuck Berry, and their peers would soon be forgotten, another passing fancy in the cavalcade of youth-induced fads. The brash conceit, “rock’n’roll is here to stay,” however, proved astute.
Why were American adults and, for that matter, their Soviet counterparts frightened of rock’n’roll? Commentators ranted indignantly about the new music. Frank Sinatra complained that rock’n’roll featured: “cretinous goons” who used “almost imbecilic reiteration and sly, lewd, . . . dirty, lyrics” to become the “martial music of every side-burned delinquent on the face of the earth.” The New York Times quoted psychiatrist Francis Braceland, who called rock’n’roll, “a cannibalistic and tribalistic form of music.”
AR do certainly have potential for the LARP community, imagine to get a bunch of players with AR glasses and larp weapons and edit the players so they look just right (removing the glasses, fix the clothing and even change players do elves dwarfs and similar). Then add fantasy background, treasures and even mobs. A wizard could cast spells by doing movement and words that all players see and the gear can keep tabs on hitpoints and stuff.
But the current AR gear ain't good for things like this yet, far from it. You need AR glasses that are small and can be run from a cellphone or small portable computer. But ever since I saw that microsoft vid where they play Jenga and minecraft in AR I certainly saw a huge potential for social gaming.
Being able to set up a dungeon in a regular field or mixing in real stuff into the game have a huge potential for certain types of games.
Current stuff like Pokemon Go is not interesting for me though, it will take 10 years before the AR technology becomes good enough. AR do have the potential to replace games like Paintball and Airsoft in the long run with the right add-ons.
Comments
And that's not even taking cultural differences into account. Some things that are quite acceptable in the West are unthinkable in the East, and vice versa.
PG is a whole new paradigm, mistakes will undoubtedly be a part of it.
"The two main advantages of handheld AR is the portable nature of handheld devices and ubiquitous nature of camera phones. The disadvantages are the physical constraints of the user having to hold the handheld device out in front of them at all times as well as distorting effect of classically wide-angled mobile phone cameras when compared to the real world as viewed through the eye."
It gets a lot more technical if anyone is interested in reading about it.
It will undoubtedly fade away, but it has put the whole idea of AR games firmly in the spotlight.
It's not the first AR game, but it's the one that everyone's going to remember.
Boy, that would quickly put you on the Police's yahoo list of folks who waste their time.
I personally see it as an issue of a cultural divide.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You forget that a lot of us - perhaps even a substantial majority of us - are using games as a social outlet because we find real life bar scenes or party life awkward and abhorrent. Acting like this is the future of the genre - a future that most MMOers are even looking for - is immensely short sighted of you. It's a stupid kid's game. Give it 2 months for school to start and you'll never hear about it again.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Oh, nvm, I think you said you don't go to parties...
If I was 30 years younger, I would be out chasing Pokemon's !
I don't give a damn about the Pokemon's, but it looks like an excellent way to meet girls !
I don't use games as a social outlet, though that certainly is a side benefit for sure. I don't go to bars either, but this game, as simple as it is, has opened up new channels of discussion between my daughter and me so for that alone, it's fantastic and if we meet a few others along the way in this, or whatever the next "out of the park title is, then we're so much the richer.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Some people will get lit up doing this, guaranteed.
Edit: and yeah, some idiots will probably get beat up or shot for trespassing on people's private property, too. Just watch, it will happen.
http://www.thisisinsider.com/developer-behind-pokmon-go-wants-to-make-game-of-thrones-version-2016-7
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I can't speak for everyone, of course - and there are clearly a lot of people who do enjoy Pokemon Go, absurd and dangerous as I find it. But that doesn't mean I can transfer that appeal directly into a feature for MMORPGs that obliges me to physically seek out other players/activities in the open world. I play these stupid games to escape reality, not have it foisted on me in the most ham-fisted method imaginable.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
EDIT: Post meant in response to Koboli's comment.
"The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners." - Thomas B. Macaulay
"The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." - Daniel J. Boorstin
I've still got a pet rock, in a box somewhere.
The latest fad too shall pass.
I have my own issues with AR games but I don't begrudge game makers for wanting to make them, to try to come up with the "next big thing" and I don't begrudge players for wanting something like this. It will go through growing pains, and IMO, huge ones in this new explosively popular strain of AR, but it's going to be a factor in gaming whether we personally like it or choose to play it or not.
I still don't play on consoles and probably never will. But I love some of the games that I've watched my kiddo play.
Kinda reminds me of this little note in history (and thousands of others before it!)
Rock’n’roll music has defied its critics. When it debuted in the 1950s, many adults ridiculed the phenomenon. Elvis, Chuck Berry, and their peers would soon be forgotten, another passing fancy in the cavalcade of youth-induced fads. The brash conceit, “rock’n’roll is here to stay,” however, proved astute.
Why were American adults and, for that matter, their Soviet counterparts frightened of rock’n’roll? Commentators ranted indignantly about the new music. Frank Sinatra complained that rock’n’roll featured: “cretinous goons” who used “almost imbecilic reiteration and sly, lewd, . . . dirty, lyrics” to become the “martial music of every side-burned delinquent on the face of the earth.” The New York Times quoted psychiatrist Francis Braceland, who called rock’n’roll, “a cannibalistic and tribalistic form of music.”
Source: http://blog.oup.com/2015/04/rock-and-roll-history/¯\_(ツ)_/¯
But the current AR gear ain't good for things like this yet, far from it. You need AR glasses that are small and can be run from a cellphone or small portable computer. But ever since I saw that microsoft vid where they play Jenga and minecraft in AR I certainly saw a huge potential for social gaming.
Being able to set up a dungeon in a regular field or mixing in real stuff into the game have a huge potential for certain types of games.
Current stuff like Pokemon Go is not interesting for me though, it will take 10 years before the AR technology becomes good enough. AR do have the potential to replace games like Paintball and Airsoft in the long run with the right add-ons.