Mandatory PvP. It is amazing to me that games still does this. Competative players will completely dominate, which is fine if there is an other option for non-competative players. But more often than not, developers just have to force PvP on non-competitive players.
By closely linking character progression to quests, you're killing off massive amounts of player freedom. In almost every MMO of the last decade, the quickest / best way to level has been grinding quests. It sucks. The stories are derivative and boring. The quests themselves are just minor variations on the same old shit. I absolutely hate it.
So, I say remove all XP from questing. That would mean a return to mob grinding as the quickest way to level which I know some would hate, but the quests would still be there for those who want the stories (and rewards) from questing. For those of us who hate questing, we would be able to head out into the world and make our own way again. I know we can technically still do that now, but the amount of XP you get in comparison to quests is so low that its not worth it.
Funny how you talk about player freedom and then suggest taking away freedom to choose to quest for xp for massive amount of players. Well it is not funny, it is nonsensical and hypocritical.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Thank fuck Pantheon is not being made for the people in this thread. Guess you lot can look forward to mmos that cater to your play style while others look forward the all the traditional features of the early mmo..
If I am to believe you Pantheon will be a horrible, horrible game.
The people in this thread don't want:
-Bots -Goldspammers -Convulted crafting -A static world -A halfbaked combination of PVP and PVE -Boring quests consisting of kill 10 rats -Cookie cutter builds -A cashshop -Bought levels -Braindead AI -A clunky interface -inappropriate drops -Dailies
Or do you mean the:
-Corpse runs -XP loss on death -Nonconsensual PVP -Loss of equipment upon death
Because the first list is just horrible all around and the second list is for a tiny fraction of the players that like to get kicked in the balls repeatedly while pretending that is called depth. I pray to god Pantheon will be neither.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
"Hi, my name is Ralgar of Ralgarath. I need your help adventurer. Please gather 20 chicken eggs for me."
"Thanks traveler, can you take the eggs to my brother in Goofington Terrace?"
"Did my brother send those eggs? Damn him, he forgot I need 30 loaves of bread. Bake those for me?"
"Thanks adventurer, here's a sh!tty sword 20 levels under any usefulness to you. I heard there's a town down yonder with someone who can help you save the universe. I appreciate you taking the time to help us make breakfast before the end of the world. Safe travels. Oh BTW I'll be here tomorrow... you know, dailies and s#!t"
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Levels. I much prefer acquiring skills as you use them and having skills take longer to level as they go up. I know this is just a different type of leveling but at least you improve on what you use. This way monsters do not need to be so ridiculously spread out to cover level 1 - 100 and you can play with a friend who has 50 sword and you have 70 and both benefit. UO skill gain basically.
small scale pvp, like 3 vs 3, 4 vs 4, 5 v 5, capture the flag, wack each other with sticks in a shoebox. just get rid of it because it takes away players from world pvp/rvr/wvw
IMPORTANT: Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING. Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally. If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead. I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING. Thank you.
I would like to see the end of the worlds of orphaned heroes....characters in MMO's are entirely absent of meaningful backgrounds - no families, no hometowns, no religious affiliation, etc.
Also the end of tiny cities pretending to be capitals of empires or kingdoms etc. I understand that scaling the world helps in many ways, but surely there is a way to emulate that many great capitals in the ancient world were huge. For example ancient Rome had a population of about 1 million people, ancient Chang'an's (modern X'ian) greater area was nearly 2 million, with 1million within the city walls. I don't think every great capital needs to be that big (as many weren't), but it would be refreshing to have the feel for those that are.
With regards to factions, I would like to see the end of unified factions. There are always sub-groups vying for power. The British Empire was famous for it's playing one faction against another to gain dominance over all of them.
Movement. Get rid of movement. Oh, when we do movement in current games we have to do things. So remove movement and doing things. Streamline the whole thing.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
- Story driven linear designed content (aka wow themepark style). - Any kind of point/badges systems with vendor loot. - Solo focused, lack of coop mechanics aka roles, lack of non combat player interaction. - PvP based mmorpgs (unless they got good and interesting coop mechanics). - f2p ; by now it should be obvious to anyone that shop solutions has a huge negative impact on a mmorpgs design and gameplay.
Assuming "traditional" means what most players here recognize as mmorpg, the wow themepark era. If we go further back, the list would be different, but that hardly seem relevant to discuss since all new games are story driven wow themepark formulas even the so called sandbox pvp games.
I want to see wannabe game devs out of the equation. You know, those people suggesting what should be in or out of games.
lol, I was kind of thinking the same thing. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but your right most of them are bad and lead to easy mode, max level in a week games with no challenge and the cycle of MMO hopping continues.
There is no magic formula for fun in MMO's, the perfect game that will keep people active but somehow requires no effort. What makes people stick to them is actually not pure fun, its the amount of work you have to put into something to attain it, which clearly people are becoming more and more adverse to.
The secret formula of MMO's has always been time not more action, bigger swords, faster leveling, quick travel and all the happy horse shit devs piling on to keep the fly's from buzzing away.
I have to point out what you did here. You agreed that people should basically shut up and not express opinions about game design and then you go on to say what's good and bad about games in your opinion. I'm sure the guy you quoted also posts about what he likes and doesn't like in games. If he didn't why would he even be registered on this site?
I just said most of them are bad, you can suggest anything you want. The proof is in what gets developed based on what people "suggest" and most games being made these days are terrible, a bunch of empty soulless MMO's being made that even given away nobody plays. There are very few exceptions.
Mandatory PvP. It is amazing to me that games still does this. Competative players will completely dominate, which is fine if there is an other option for non-competative players. But more often than not, developers just have to force PvP on non-competitive players.
What are you talking about? I don't mean to be an ass, but you almost sound delusion. I see the exact opposite with every bad theme park mmorpg of the last 7 years.
Graphic/Gameplay where 100 characters can stand on same spot. And fractions..
Did you mean factions? Fractions are numbers, like a quarter or a third. Factions are political groups.
I want to help design and develop a PvE-focused, solo-friendly, sandpark MMO which combines crafting, monster hunting, and story. So PM me if you are starting one.
Movement. Get rid of movement. Oh, when we do movement in current games we have to do things. So remove movement and doing things. Streamline the whole thing.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
MMOs made for 5 year olds. Everything spoon fed like baby food. Constant hand holding every step of the way. Zero risk, like bowling with guard rails for the kiddies. No consequences for your actions. If you think about it, MMOs these days are played like the life of a toddler.
Static AI. Be it on the NPCs as well as the mobs. I'd love to see progress made on that end so that enemy spawns are more natural in their spawning, movement, and behavior in the world as well as how the NPCs interact with you and go about their own "lives".
I've been sorely disappointed in the lack of any "wow" progress made in this area since I started playing MMORPGs.
Games that revolve around players interacting with one another and NPC beings/creatures in a virtual world.. And the attempts to make the world seem alive and aid in suspension of disbelief through the creation of more sophisticated and workable AI tech have been very few and limited.
Agreed. Remember Gothic way back when? How the game created a sense of a living world with schedules for the NPC. That game came out in 2001 and I find it hard to believe in 2016 we can not have every MMO with the same mechanic for the NPCs and the Mobs. Crazy how in even today most mobs are tethered.
Skyrim mobs had schedules and once while hanging out in a large city in GW2, a mother was trying to get help finding her husband from a local guard. A second guard showed up, they talked about it for awhile before they blew her off, and she returned home. The game is filled with all these little stories that don't contribute to xp and aren't part of a quest and are just there to be enjoyed even down to the children running around playing games about important historical events.
Just think how much better it would be if you could then knock on her door and offer to help find him for her, with no expectation of a set reward( though perhaps a bit of coin, a free lunch, or some other token like an offer to teach you something uncommon/rare, show you the best fishing spot, etc. of appreciation would be nice from time to time).
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Without a shred of doubt, I would change slotted inventories. There's absolutely nothing I hated more, after playing EVE Online, was playing my first traditional MMORPG and finding out that my inventory wasn't limited by size and weight, but by slots.
If I have 20 slots, then I can carry 20 varieties of cotton candy and marshmallows OR I can carry 20 full plate armor chest pieces. It's ridiculous.
All games should have bags that have a weight limit and all objects in the game should have a weight.
Without a shred of doubt, I would change slotted inventories. There's absolutely nothing I hated more, after playing EVE Online, was playing my first traditional MMORPG and finding out that my inventory wasn't limited by size and weight, but by slots.
If I have 20 slots, then I can carry 20 varieties of cotton candy and marshmallows OR I can carry 20 full plate armor chest pieces. It's ridiculous.
All games should have bags that have a weight limit and all objects in the game should have a weight.
Everquest and Everquest did. Even coinage had weight, give someone 10,000 copper pieces and watch them slow to a crawl. But these things were taken out because they were not ""FUN""tm.
By closely linking character progression to quests, you're killing off massive amounts of player freedom. In almost every MMO of the last decade, the quickest / best way to level has been grinding quests. It sucks. The stories are derivative and boring. The quests themselves are just minor variations on the same old shit. I absolutely hate it.
So, I say remove all XP from questing. That would mean a return to mob grinding as the quickest way to level which I know some would hate, but the quests would still be there for those who want the stories (and rewards) from questing. For those of us who hate questing, we would be able to head out into the world and make our own way again. I know we can technically still do that now, but the amount of XP you get in comparison to quests is so low that its not worth it.
Funny how you talk about player freedom and then suggest taking away freedom to choose to quest for xp for massive amount of players. Well it is not funny, it is nonsensical and hypocritical.
I'd like to point out something here. Freedom usually means player freedom in an mmorpgs. ie being able to pick and choose activities you want to do and to actually do them and to pick and choose activities you don't want to do and to actually not do them. imo Questing for xp usually limits this kind of freedom because it sets the player on a predefined path where perhaps many do's and don't's are tied together.
And though one attraction of an mmorpg can be when one is put in to an unfamiliar situation of do's and don't's but such unfamiliar situations can also happen when not questing for xp
Talking about games where thousands of players exist simultaneously in a single instance and mechanics related to such games.
Comments
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
The people in this thread don't want:
-Bots
-Goldspammers
-Convulted crafting
-A static world
-A halfbaked combination of PVP and PVE
-Boring quests consisting of kill 10 rats
-Cookie cutter builds
-A cashshop
-Bought levels
-Braindead AI
-A clunky interface
-inappropriate drops
-Dailies
Or do you mean the:
-Corpse runs
-XP loss on death
-Nonconsensual PVP
-Loss of equipment upon death
Because the first list is just horrible all around and the second list is for a tiny fraction of the players that like to get kicked in the balls repeatedly while pretending that is called depth. I pray to god Pantheon will be neither.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
"Thanks traveler, can you take the eggs to my brother in Goofington Terrace?"
"Did my brother send those eggs? Damn him, he forgot I need 30 loaves of bread. Bake those for me?"
"Thanks adventurer, here's a sh!tty sword 20 levels under any usefulness to you. I heard there's a town down yonder with someone who can help you save the universe. I appreciate you taking the time to help us make breakfast before the end of the world. Safe travels. Oh BTW I'll be here tomorrow... you know, dailies and s#!t"
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Also the end of tiny cities pretending to be capitals of empires or kingdoms etc. I understand that scaling the world helps in many ways, but surely there is a way to emulate that many great capitals in the ancient world were huge. For example ancient Rome had a population of about 1 million people, ancient Chang'an's (modern X'ian) greater area was nearly 2 million, with 1million within the city walls. I don't think every great capital needs to be that big (as many weren't), but it would be refreshing to have the feel for those that are.
With regards to factions, I would like to see the end of unified factions. There are always sub-groups vying for power. The British Empire was famous for it's playing one faction against another to gain dominance over all of them.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
- Any kind of point/badges systems with vendor loot.
- Solo focused, lack of coop mechanics aka roles, lack of non combat player interaction.
- PvP based mmorpgs (unless they got good and interesting coop mechanics).
- f2p ; by now it should be obvious to anyone that shop solutions has a huge negative impact on a mmorpgs design and gameplay.
Assuming "traditional" means what most players here recognize as mmorpg, the wow themepark era. If we go further back, the list would be different, but that hardly seem relevant to discuss since all new games are story driven wow themepark formulas even the so called sandbox pvp games.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
/teabags
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Can you imagine the fellowship of the ring having to go back to the shire to do their dailies? That is how dailies feel to me.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
If I have 20 slots, then I can carry 20 varieties of cotton candy and marshmallows OR I can carry 20 full plate armor chest pieces. It's ridiculous.
All games should have bags that have a weight limit and all objects in the game should have a weight.
And though one attraction of an mmorpg can be when one is put in to an unfamiliar situation of do's and don't's but such unfamiliar situations can also happen when not questing for xp
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche