Oh, look, another thread trying to discredit VR. As i've posted before, VR headsets for phones are inferior to headsets such as Vive and Rift. People don't want Google Cardboard, because it's crap.
Actually this was a thread trying to help VR... I don't have to try hard to discredit it.. it's doing poorly all on its own. I have a Gear VR set, I figured others might want a free set too.
Oh, look, another thread trying to discredit VR. As i've posted before, VR headsets for phones are inferior to headsets such as Vive and Rift. People don't want Google Cardboard, because it's crap.
Actually this was a thread trying to help VR... I don't have to try hard to discredit it.. it's doing poorly all on its own. I have a Gear VR set, I figured others might want a free set too.
"Most of the time, we hear answers that are different versions of “We’re currently not making any money, but hope not to go out of business before the market hits mass adoption”."
The entire article is about monetization because they currently aren't making money... it's "growing at a ferocious rate" which basically is the same thing they've been saying for months... that changes about.. oh.. uhm.. ehhh nothing... at all... because VR is still doing poorly financially.
Oh, look, another thread trying to discredit VR. As i've posted before, VR headsets for phones are inferior to headsets such as Vive and Rift. People don't want Google Cardboard, because it's crap.
Actually this was a thread trying to help VR... I don't have to try hard to discredit it.. it's doing poorly all on its own. I have a Gear VR set, I figured others might want a free set too.
"Most of the time, we hear answers that are different versions of “We’re currently not making any money, but hope not to go out of business before the market hits mass adoption”."
The entire article is about monetization because they currently aren't making money... it's "growing at a ferocious rate" which basically is the same thing they've been saying for months... that changes about.. oh.. uhm.. ehhh nothing... at all... because VR is still doing poorly financially.
yeah so kinda a far cry from 'doing poorly on its own' to 'The VR industry is growing at a ferocious rate' as a lead.
also that quote you gave ended in 'was true for 2015'
want to know my take on all this?
Its neither growing or doing poorly. it hasnt started yet.
that is my view
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Now OR and Vive gen 2 and 3... now those will blow the doors open.
Agree with most of this except for the quoted line. We have no idea what gen 2 or 3 would look like or how long it will be before we see them.
We equally don't know what the costs would be. While I don't doubt they'll try to bring costs down and make the sets more mobile, we really can't say for sure, and as other headsets are looking to enter the market next year, who knows which set, if any, will really get these devices to mainstream adoption.
Now OR and Vive gen 2 and 3... now those will blow the doors open.
Agree with most of this except for the quoted line. We have no idea what gen 2 or 3 would look like or how long it will be before we see them.
We equally don't know what the costs would be. While I don't doubt they'll try to bring costs down and make the sets more mobile, we really can't say for sure, and as other headsets are looking to enter the market next year, who knows which set, if any, will really get these devices to mainstream adoption.
call it blind optimism. =P
my VR experiences have consistently been the most immersive gaming experience in my life and I have been gaming since 1980ish. So yeah to at least think VR will do fine and grow (not like a rocket just grow) is not being overly optimistic.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Oh, look, another thread trying to discredit VR. As i've posted before, VR headsets for phones are inferior to headsets such as Vive and Rift. People don't want Google Cardboard, because it's crap.
Actually this was a thread trying to help VR... I don't have to try hard to discredit it.. it's doing poorly all on its own. I have a Gear VR set, I figured others might want a free set too.
"Most of the time, we hear answers that are different versions of “We’re currently not making any money, but hope not to go out of business before the market hits mass adoption”."
The entire article is about monetization because they currently aren't making money... it's "growing at a ferocious rate" which basically is the same thing they've been saying for months... that changes about.. oh.. uhm.. ehhh nothing... at all... because VR is still doing poorly financially.
yeah so kinda a far cry from 'doing poorly on its own' to 'The VR industry is growing at a ferocious rate' as a lead.
also that quote you gave ended in 'was true for 2015'
want to know my take on all this?
Its neither growing or doing poorly. it hasnt started yet.
that is my view
No.. it's doing poorly... that's the definition of being unprofitable. It requires growth so that it saturates the market enough that some companies can make money.
"The increasing focus on virtual reality comes at a time when first-quarter earnings for the S&P 500 are expected to fall 5.4 percent from the same time last year, while second-quarter earnings are expected to fall 3.4 percent from the year before, according to Thomson Reuters estimates.
Yet for all of the enthusiasm, there is little evidence that virtual reality can deliver substantial growth."
"Virtual reality is such a small part of Facebook's business that most analysts do not break out Oculus in their revenue or earnings estimates. Nor did Facebook give any numbers on how many Oculus headsets it expects to sell on its most recent earnings call."
Just saying... even the big companies aren't expecting to make money.. they're just hoping it catches on... and it hasn't yet.
"“The market doesn’t need to be huge to be viable as long as it is addressable and well-defined,” said Shawn DuBravac, chief economist at the Consumer Technology Association. He admits, however, that the lack of distribution channels and relatively high price of headsets will temper consumer uptake for a while. Headsets costs between $99 and $799 at the moment."
It goes on like the other article to determine how in the hell they will be able to use VR to be profitable. Right now .. they just... aren't.
Those shipping prices include the price of the device. Regular shipping should run no more than $10 at the most. Who are they trying to fool?
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
yeah so kinda a far cry from 'doing poorly on its own' to 'The VR industry is growing at a ferocious rate' as a lead.
also that quote you gave ended in 'was true for 2015'
want to know my take on all this?
Its neither growing or doing poorly. it hasnt started yet.
that is my view
No.. it's doing poorly... that's the definition of being unprofitable. It requires growth so that it saturates the market enough that some companies can make money.
"The increasing focus on virtual reality comes at a time when first-quarter earnings for the S&P 500 are expected to fall 5.4 percent from the same time last year, while second-quarter earnings are expected to fall 3.4 percent from the year before, according to Thomson Reuters estimates.
Yet for all of the enthusiasm, there is little evidence that virtual reality can deliver substantial growth."
"Virtual reality is such a small part of Facebook's business that most analysts do not break out Oculus in their revenue or earnings estimates. Nor did Facebook give any numbers on how many Oculus headsets it expects to sell on its most recent earnings call."
Just saying... even the big companies aren't expecting to make money.. they're just hoping it catches on... and it hasn't yet.
"“The market doesn’t need to be huge to be viable as long as it is addressable and well-defined,” said Shawn DuBravac, chief economist at the Consumer Technology Association. He admits, however, that the lack of distribution channels and relatively high price of headsets will temper consumer uptake for a while. Headsets costs between $99 and $799 at the moment."
It goes on like the other article to determine how in the hell they will be able to use VR to be profitable. Right now .. they just... aren't.
something that hasnt started yet is obviously not making money
so again I say 'my position is that VR hasnt started yet'
why? because Sony VR isnt out yet and Oculus doesnt have controllers out yet (but the supply chain for the headsets is now unclogged which is also a requirement). When both of those things happen then on that date the clock STARTS. not as in 'already well into it' no. STARTS at that point
also as a side note Xbox didnt make money for years when it first came out
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
yeah so kinda a far cry from 'doing poorly on its own' to 'The VR industry is growing at a ferocious rate' as a lead.
also that quote you gave ended in 'was true for 2015'
want to know my take on all this?
Its neither growing or doing poorly. it hasnt started yet.
that is my view
No.. it's doing poorly... that's the definition of being unprofitable. It requires growth so that it saturates the market enough that some companies can make money.
"The increasing focus on virtual reality comes at a time when first-quarter earnings for the S&P 500 are expected to fall 5.4 percent from the same time last year, while second-quarter earnings are expected to fall 3.4 percent from the year before, according to Thomson Reuters estimates.
Yet for all of the enthusiasm, there is little evidence that virtual reality can deliver substantial growth."
"Virtual reality is such a small part of Facebook's business that most analysts do not break out Oculus in their revenue or earnings estimates. Nor did Facebook give any numbers on how many Oculus headsets it expects to sell on its most recent earnings call."
Just saying... even the big companies aren't expecting to make money.. they're just hoping it catches on... and it hasn't yet.
"“The market doesn’t need to be huge to be viable as long as it is addressable and well-defined,” said Shawn DuBravac, chief economist at the Consumer Technology Association. He admits, however, that the lack of distribution channels and relatively high price of headsets will temper consumer uptake for a while. Headsets costs between $99 and $799 at the moment."
It goes on like the other article to determine how in the hell they will be able to use VR to be profitable. Right now .. they just... aren't.
something that hasnt started yet is obviously not making money
so again I say 'my position is that VR hasnt started yet'
why? because Sony VR isnt out yet and Oculus doesnt have controllers out yet (but the supply chain for the headsets is now unclogged which is also a requirement). When both of those things happen then on that date the clock STARTS. not as in 'already well into it' no. STARTS at that point
also as a side note Xbox didnt make money for years when it first came out
...VR has been out for over a year in Gear VR, and Rift has had an open development kit sold for over 4 years now, and both the Rift and Vive and several other headsets are being sold currently. It's started. I don't know who told you it didn't.. seeing as how you recently bought one and have it in your house. It's started.. you're using it.... surprise!
Xbox hardware NEVER makes profits.. it was never meant to make profits on hardware. If Xbox was a hardware only company then, yeah, you'd be right, but Microsoft is a software company. Furthermore nobody can really determine what the exact amount of profit and loss are.. they even stated the XB1 had a net loss of 400M but thats over earnings of 1.7 Billion for their division.
To put this in comparison, Amazon ..the largest online retailer... constantly fails in being largely profitable year over year due to different ways of growth, but the annual earnings far outweigh losses when you're putting money back into the company.
The major difference between companies like Amazon and Microsofts Xbox division and VR companies, is that, the growth isn't INDUSTRY growth.. its EARNINGS growth... which VR companies are shy releasing.. why? because there are no real earnings to speak of.
Look it's fine if you're unprofitable for a few years, when you see wide adoption like the Xbox did. It overtook other consoles within a few years, there was a growth metric.
As stated... Reuters stated they there is no indication of substantial growth.... That is going to be an issue. If they were selling sets hand over fist this would be a non issue, but that isn't the case.. sales are very slow... sub 100K for each PC set. It's not the type of growth they expected.
something that hasnt started yet is obviously not making money
so again I say 'my position is that VR hasnt started yet'
why? because Sony VR isnt out yet and Oculus doesnt have controllers out yet (but the supply chain for the headsets is now unclogged which is also a requirement). When both of those things happen then on that date the clock STARTS. not as in 'already well into it' no. STARTS at that point
also as a side note Xbox didnt make money for years when it first came out
...VR has been out for over a year in Gear VR, and Rift has had an open development kit sold for over 4 years now, and both the Rift and Vive and several other headsets are being sold currently. It's started. I don't know who told you it didn't.. seeing as how you recently bought one and have it in your house. It's started.. you're using it.... surprise!
Xbox hardware NEVER makes profits.. it was never meant to make profits on hardware. If Xbox was a hardware only company then, yeah, you'd be right, but Microsoft is a software company. Furthermore nobody can really determine what the exact amount of profit and loss are.. they even stated the XB1 had a net loss of 400M but thats over earnings of 1.7 Billion for their division.
To put this in comparison, Amazon ..the largest online retailer... constantly fails in being largely profitable year over year due to different ways of growth, but the annual earnings far outweigh losses when you're putting money back into the company.
The major difference between companies like Amazon and Microsofts Xbox division and VR companies, is that, the growth isn't INDUSTRY growth.. its EARNINGS growth... which VR companies are shy releasing.. why? because there are no real earnings to speak of.
Look it's fine if you're unprofitable for a few years, when you see wide adoption like the Xbox did. It overtook other consoles within a few years, there was a growth metric.
As stated... Reuters stated they there is no indication of substantial growth.... That is going to be an issue. If they were selling sets hand over fist this would be a non issue, but that isn't the case.. sales are very slow... sub 100K for each PC set. It's not the type of growth they expected.
1. I will say it again just to be clear. As far as I am concerned VR hasnt 'started' yet until the Rift has normal supply chain (check now it does!), regular supply chain on the controllers, and the Sony VR is out. Any evaluation of how VR is 'doing' before those things happen in my mind is silly.
2. Oculus has stated 'we want to sell the hardware at cost, its not where we plan to make the money' which is what? exactly how Xbox operates? so yeah I would not expect a profit revenue stream from VR for years franckly and I dont see why anyone who knows these two items would expect otherwise
3. I think what the article is refering to when it mentions growth is industry investment which is in fact very large and makes investment into the first xbox look like childs play. so there is that to concern yourself with
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
something that hasnt started yet is obviously not making money
so again I say 'my position is that VR hasnt started yet'
why? because Sony VR isnt out yet and Oculus doesnt have controllers out yet (but the supply chain for the headsets is now unclogged which is also a requirement). When both of those things happen then on that date the clock STARTS. not as in 'already well into it' no. STARTS at that point
also as a side note Xbox didnt make money for years when it first came out
...VR has been out for over a year in Gear VR, and Rift has had an open development kit sold for over 4 years now, and both the Rift and Vive and several other headsets are being sold currently. It's started. I don't know who told you it didn't.. seeing as how you recently bought one and have it in your house. It's started.. you're using it.... surprise!
Xbox hardware NEVER makes profits.. it was never meant to make profits on hardware. If Xbox was a hardware only company then, yeah, you'd be right, but Microsoft is a software company. Furthermore nobody can really determine what the exact amount of profit and loss are.. they even stated the XB1 had a net loss of 400M but thats over earnings of 1.7 Billion for their division.
To put this in comparison, Amazon ..the largest online retailer... constantly fails in being largely profitable year over year due to different ways of growth, but the annual earnings far outweigh losses when you're putting money back into the company.
The major difference between companies like Amazon and Microsofts Xbox division and VR companies, is that, the growth isn't INDUSTRY growth.. its EARNINGS growth... which VR companies are shy releasing.. why? because there are no real earnings to speak of.
Look it's fine if you're unprofitable for a few years, when you see wide adoption like the Xbox did. It overtook other consoles within a few years, there was a growth metric.
As stated... Reuters stated they there is no indication of substantial growth.... That is going to be an issue. If they were selling sets hand over fist this would be a non issue, but that isn't the case.. sales are very slow... sub 100K for each PC set. It's not the type of growth they expected.
1. I will say it again just to be clear. As far as I am concerned VR hasnt 'started' yet until the Rift has normal supply chain (check now it does!), regular supply chain on the controllers, and the Sony VR is out. Any evaluation of how VR is 'doing' before those things happen in my mind is silly.
2. Oculus has stated 'we want to sell the hardware at cost, its not where we plan to make the money' which is what? exactly how Xbox operates? so yeah I would not expect a profit revenue stream from VR for years franckly and I dont see why anyone who knows these two items would expect otherwise
3. I think what the article is refering to when it mentions growth is industry investment which is in fact very large and makes investment into the first xbox look like childs play. so there is that to concern yourself with
Well as far as I'm concerned... your opinion on the matter means nothing... and we're basing it off of what is actually happening, not when you decide it gets to happen. That means we're basing it off of things like sales.. which are currently poor, and what companies are currently doing, which is giving away headsets and rushing to provide content so the hardware may seem worth buying.
We'll also base it on what analysts are saying, not some random forum person, not me.. not you.. but analysts recently slashed expectations:
"“However, this initial lull in adoption has shortened due to both product visibility on a global scale and the speed at which manufacturing costs drop. So although we see that initial struggle for VR, there will be a relatively quick push upward within the next 3-5 years.”
As a result of its more conservative approach to the near-term performance of VR, SuperData has lowered its forecast for 2016 from $5.1 billion to $3.6 billion. However, the firm still believes that the VR industry will see rapid growth in the next few years, predicting that the market will reach $22.9 billion by 2020."
So they still believe that they'll make the 22 BILLION mark even though expectations for this year are continuing to decrease.
If PS4 launches and it too doesn't meet expectations, I can only imagine how the new forecast will look for 2020.
Seeing as how they've estimated that by 2026 no VR headsets will be tethered to PCs, it sounds like a lot of overestimations to me. But currently, all this "ferocity" for VR this year sure has gotten analysts reducing their forecasts...
***sidenote, why would I concern mysefl with the xbox anyways? It's been around for over a decade and is now transitioning into the PC space... they're quite profitable.. their "growth" has never looked better.
1. I will say it again just to be clear. As far as I am concerned VR hasnt 'started' yet until the Rift has normal supply chain (check now it does!), regular supply chain on the controllers, and the Sony VR is out. Any evaluation of how VR is 'doing' before those things happen in my mind is silly.
2. Oculus has stated 'we want to sell the hardware at cost, its not where we plan to make the money' which is what? exactly how Xbox operates? so yeah I would not expect a profit revenue stream from VR for years franckly and I dont see why anyone who knows these two items would expect otherwise
3. I think what the article is refering to when it mentions growth is industry investment which is in fact very large and makes investment into the first xbox look like childs play. so there is that to concern yourself with
Well as far as I'm concerned... your opinion on the matter means nothing... and we're basing it off of what is actually happening, not when you decide it gets to happen. That means we're basing it off of things like sales.. which are currently poor, and what companies are currently doing, which is giving away headsets and rushing to provide content so the hardware may seem worth buying.
We'll also base it on what analysts are saying, not some random forum person, not me.. not you.. but analysts recently slashed expectations:
"“However, this initial lull in adoption has shortened due to both product visibility on a global scale and the speed at which manufacturing costs drop. So although we see that initial struggle for VR, there will be a relatively quick push upward within the next 3-5 years.”
As a result of its more conservative approach to the near-term performance of VR, SuperData has lowered its forecast for 2016 from $5.1 billion to $3.6 billion. However, the firm still believes that the VR industry will see rapid growth in the next few years, predicting that the market will reach $22.9 billion by 2020."
So they still believe that they'll make the 22 BILLION mark even though expectations for this year are continuing to decrease.
If PS4 launches and it too doesn't meet expectations, I can only imagine how the new forecast will look for 2020.
Seeing as how they've estimated that by 2026 no VR headsets will be tethered to PCs, it sounds like a lot of overestimations to me. But currently, all this "ferocity" for VR this year sure has gotten analysts reducing their forecasts...
***sidenote, why would I concern mysefl with the xbox anyways? It's been around for over a decade and is now transitioning into the PC space... they're quite profitable.. their "growth" has never looked better.
yeah i know my radical view that a product should able to be purchasable by consumers should be in place before we declare the technology dead or alive. but that is what I am sticking to as radical as it may seem to you. (and for clarification dev kits dont count again i know that is radical that I think a consumer based product should be aviable for purchase before we call the consumer based technology dead or alive but i am sticking to that view)
In fact actually I am even more radical then that.
At the start of a race I dont think one should call something a win or a lose. Which is why I really think it should be a full 12 months after all headliner VR headsets are for sale as a retail item which in this case is Oculus (w controllers) Vive and SonyVR. Declaring a race won before people have started, while they are just starting to run or even before they get to the starting line is being silly.
that is my view
'hello sir yes I am starting work today' 'you failed!' 'but sir I dont even have an office yet' 'ah well now you do...you fail!' 'can I do some work maybe? is that asking too much?'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
1. I will say it again just to be clear. As far as I am concerned VR hasnt 'started' yet until the Rift has normal supply chain (check now it does!), regular supply chain on the controllers, and the Sony VR is out. Any evaluation of how VR is 'doing' before those things happen in my mind is silly.
2. Oculus has stated 'we want to sell the hardware at cost, its not where we plan to make the money' which is what? exactly how Xbox operates? so yeah I would not expect a profit revenue stream from VR for years franckly and I dont see why anyone who knows these two items would expect otherwise
3. I think what the article is refering to when it mentions growth is industry investment which is in fact very large and makes investment into the first xbox look like childs play. so there is that to concern yourself with
Well as far as I'm concerned... your opinion on the matter means nothing... and we're basing it off of what is actually happening, not when you decide it gets to happen. That means we're basing it off of things like sales.. which are currently poor, and what companies are currently doing, which is giving away headsets and rushing to provide content so the hardware may seem worth buying.
We'll also base it on what analysts are saying, not some random forum person, not me.. not you.. but analysts recently slashed expectations:
"“However, this initial lull in adoption has shortened due to both product visibility on a global scale and the speed at which manufacturing costs drop. So although we see that initial struggle for VR, there will be a relatively quick push upward within the next 3-5 years.”
As a result of its more conservative approach to the near-term performance of VR, SuperData has lowered its forecast for 2016 from $5.1 billion to $3.6 billion. However, the firm still believes that the VR industry will see rapid growth in the next few years, predicting that the market will reach $22.9 billion by 2020."
So they still believe that they'll make the 22 BILLION mark even though expectations for this year are continuing to decrease.
If PS4 launches and it too doesn't meet expectations, I can only imagine how the new forecast will look for 2020.
Seeing as how they've estimated that by 2026 no VR headsets will be tethered to PCs, it sounds like a lot of overestimations to me. But currently, all this "ferocity" for VR this year sure has gotten analysts reducing their forecasts...
***sidenote, why would I concern mysefl with the xbox anyways? It's been around for over a decade and is now transitioning into the PC space... they're quite profitable.. their "growth" has never looked better.
yeah i know my radical view that a product should able to be purchasable by consumers should be in place before we declare the technology dead or alive. but that is what I am sticking to as radical as it may seem to you. (and for clarification dev kits dont count again i know that is radical that I think a consumer based product should be aviable for purchase before we call the consumer based technology dead or alive but i am sticking to that view)
oh you mean it should be purchasable like how you purchased one and how everyone could buy a vive right now, or gear VR at any time over the last year?
I know you hope that PSVR will be a great success too.. but lets be honest with eachother and the rest of the world.. if they want a set they can buy one.. not a PSVR system for another month... but all the other systems have been available either through the manufacturer or through other resellers.... and now you can get them directly from the manufacturers with no wait... .. hows that not available to consumers?
oh you mean it should be purchasable like how you purchased one and how everyone could buy a vive right now, or gear VR at any time over the last year?
I know you hope that PSVR will be a great success too.. but lets be honest with eachother and the rest of the world.. if they want a set they can buy one.. not a PSVR system for another month... but all the other systems have been available either through the manufacturer or through other resellers.... and now you can get them directly from the manufacturers with no wait... .. hows that not available to consumers?
Oculus w/controllers Vive Sony VR
1. all of them not one of them, all of them. 2. On a persons first day at work as soon as they sit down on their office chair for the first time I dont think its fair to call them a failure or a success. I think a full 12 months after ALL of these devices are sellable and people can reasonably buy them without having to wait 4 months then we can say yes or no. You have at best more than 12 months to wait before making such declarations which I am not sure if you noticed, I make effort to not do.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
oh you mean it should be purchasable like how you purchased one and how everyone could buy a vive right now, or gear VR at any time over the last year?
I know you hope that PSVR will be a great success too.. but lets be honest with eachother and the rest of the world.. if they want a set they can buy one.. not a PSVR system for another month... but all the other systems have been available either through the manufacturer or through other resellers.... and now you can get them directly from the manufacturers with no wait... .. hows that not available to consumers?
Oculus w/controllers Vive Sony VR
1. all of them not one of them, all of them. 2. On a persons first day at work as soon as they sit down on their office chair for the first time I dont think its fair to call them a failure or a success. I think a full 12 months after ALL of these devices are sellable and people can reasonably buy them without having to wait 4 months then we can say yes or no. You have at best more than 12 months to wait before making such declarations which I am not sure if you noticed, I make effort to not do.
Thats not how business works. Many companies don't make it through their first year.. regardless on if they got to that sellable point or not. It's not fantasy land.
Just like a persons first day on the job.. there are people that don't make it a week.. people that get fired after a month.. Rift is going on 6 months for their CV unit, and over 4 years for their sets to be on the market.
In 6 more months you'll make up something else.. some other reason why it's not working.. then again ad infinitum..
People need to stop thinking about what things might be in the future... it's what it is right now, because you can't count on the future. Ever. The new predictions of lessening VR's sales by over 2 billion alone and sliding is a good indicator.. the same prediction of AR games skyrocketing this year due to a single title is another good indicator.
Funny that people saw VR coming a mile away.. over 4 years away with Rift and over a year ago for Phone VR, and a game nobody really knew existed a month using AR and a cell phone made hundreds of millions of dollars within a few weeks.
Operating under the assumption that your smartphone ought to be the most expensive component of your VR system, Tek Gear is now offering anyone a free HMD headset at FreeHMD.com While you will have to cover the cost of shipping and handling on your own, everything else is completely free. This, the company says, will help “keep growing the VR user base.”
Seems like it may only be available in Canada but you can try it if you want.
Seems like there are a lot of free headsets going out these days... I think further pushing the notion that the reason VR hasn't taken off like analysts expected was due to costs.
Lets see if this helps at all.
The most expensive thing in the vr system, is the 2000 dollar pc required to run it. Then if you play it for 6 hours a day, the 1000 dollar a year electric bill. As far as a cell phone you can get a 2k res lg g3 for 100 bucks, but according to the vr things I read, they rock 90 fps, so I don't know of any phone capable of doing 90 hz.
I wouldn't personally use VR if it was free. I don't want nothing to do with any of that lol. People already take video games way too seriously, can't even imagine what VR would do.
oh you mean it should be purchasable like how you purchased one and how everyone could buy a vive right now, or gear VR at any time over the last year?
I know you hope that PSVR will be a great success too.. but lets be honest with eachother and the rest of the world.. if they want a set they can buy one.. not a PSVR system for another month... but all the other systems have been available either through the manufacturer or through other resellers.... and now you can get them directly from the manufacturers with no wait... .. hows that not available to consumers?
Oculus w/controllers Vive Sony VR
1. all of them not one of them, all of them. 2. On a persons first day at work as soon as they sit down on their office chair for the first time I dont think its fair to call them a failure or a success. I think a full 12 months after ALL of these devices are sellable and people can reasonably buy them without having to wait 4 months then we can say yes or no. You have at best more than 12 months to wait before making such declarations which I am not sure if you noticed, I make effort to not do.
Thats not how business works. Many companies don't make it through their first year.. regardless on if they got to that sellable point or not. It's not fantasy land.
Just like a persons first day on the job.. there are people that don't make it a week.. people that get fired after a month.. Rift is going on 6 months for their CV unit, and over 4 years for their sets to be on the market.
In 6 more months you'll make up something else.. some other reason why it's not working.. then again ad infinitum..
People need to stop thinking about what things might be in the future... it's what it is right now, because you can't count on the future. Ever. The new predictions of lessening VR's sales by over 2 billion alone and sliding is a good indicator.. the same prediction of AR games skyrocketing this year due to a single title is another good indicator.
Funny that people saw VR coming a mile away.. over 4 years away with Rift and over a year ago for Phone VR, and a game nobody really knew existed a month using AR and a cell phone made hundreds of millions of dollars within a few weeks.
yes 12 months is longer than one would normally suggest however I say 12 months because at that point we can know for sure without any shadow of a doubt.
Now...because 12 months is too long does it make sense to make it 12 mins? no
right now, some of the people we have hired for this experiement the star employees havent even made it to the parking lot yet, let alone filled out the HR paper work. Can we at least give them sometime to start?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
yes 12 months is longer than one would normally suggest however I say 12 months because at that point we can know for sure without any shadow of a doubt.
Now...because 12 months is too long does it make sense to make it 12 mins? no
right now, some of the people we have hired for this experiement the star employees havent even made it to the parking lot yet, let alone filled out the HR paper work. Can we at least give them sometime to start?
Over 12 months for gear vr
4 years since the first Rift Development Kit
6 Month for Vive and Rift Consumer Versions Launched
Several other headset brands in stores and online at reduced price points.
Demos in just about every electronics and cell phone store of both kinds of headsets
Marketing speak at every turn about "VR being the Future" and the "most exciting new technology"
Get a clue, it hasn't been 12 minutes... they've been trying to push "the future" on people for months. People aren't buying, and now they're trying to figure out why.
yes 12 months is longer than one would normally suggest however I say 12 months because at that point we can know for sure without any shadow of a doubt.
Now...because 12 months is too long does it make sense to make it 12 mins? no
right now, some of the people we have hired for this experiement the star employees havent even made it to the parking lot yet, let alone filled out the HR paper work. Can we at least give them sometime to start?
Over 12 months for gear vr
4 years since the first Rift Development Kit
6 Month for Vive and Rift Consumer Versions Launched
Several other headset brands in stores and online at reduced price points.
Demos in just about every electronics and cell phone store of both kinds of headsets
Marketing speak at every turn about "VR being the Future" and the "most exciting new technology"
Get a clue, it hasn't been 12 minutes... they've been trying to push "the future" on people for months. People aren't buying, and now they're trying to figure out why.
I will state again
'releasing of DEVELOPER products does not count as a sales value for a RETAIL released to the public for mass consumption product'
'All the main hitters need to be in the parking lot, not just one'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
yes 12 months is longer than one would normally suggest however I say 12 months because at that point we can know for sure without any shadow of a doubt.
Now...because 12 months is too long does it make sense to make it 12 mins? no
right now, some of the people we have hired for this experiement the star employees havent even made it to the parking lot yet, let alone filled out the HR paper work. Can we at least give them sometime to start?
Over 12 months for gear vr
4 years since the first Rift Development Kit
6 Month for Vive and Rift Consumer Versions Launched
Several other headset brands in stores and online at reduced price points.
Demos in just about every electronics and cell phone store of both kinds of headsets
Marketing speak at every turn about "VR being the Future" and the "most exciting new technology"
Get a clue, it hasn't been 12 minutes... they've been trying to push "the future" on people for months. People aren't buying, and now they're trying to figure out why.
I will state again
'releasing of DEVELOPER products does not count as a sales value for a RETAIL released to the public for mass consumption product'
'All the main hitters need to be in the parking lot, not just one'
There are over 5 headsets on the market now.
PSVR could scrap their VR system, push it back.. whatever they want.. and then it doesn't matter if the "hitters" are here or not. We're talking about right now.. not the future.
Thats the whole point... you're waiting for things to materialize that may never happen. You'll have to keep waiting.
Oh and the DK's were on sale to EVERYONE.. not just developers like consoles.. You said you even owned one.. so obviously it's not a "development kit" because those are given to "developers only" like the Hololens.
There are over 5 headsets on the market now.
PSVR could scrap their VR system, push it back.. whatever they want.. and then it doesn't matter if the "hitters" are here or not. We're talking about right now.. not the future.
Thats the whole point... you're waiting for things to materialize that may never happen. You'll have to keep waiting.
Oh and the DK's were on sale to EVERYONE.. not just developers like consoles.. You said you even owned one.. so obviously it's not a "development kit" because those are given to "developers only" like the Hololens.
normally I would totally run with that however many people here at MMORPG have said that the only headset that will succede is the Sony VR headset making it an extreemly important data point here.
I personally think Sony VR is not important but most critics of VR do so it needs to be added as a pillar. One cant say 'the only headset that will succeed is Sony, VR has failed' before the Sony is even out
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
normally I would totally run with that however many people here at MMORPG have said that the only headset that will succede is the Sony VR headset making it an extreemly important data point here.
I personally think Sony VR is not important but most critics of VR do so it needs to be added as a pillar. One cant say 'the only headset that will succeed is Sony, VR has failed' before the Sony is even out
Even the most successful failure is still a failure. Doesn't mean Sony VR will be one, or a success. It's the only headset I haven't tried. Regardless, sony VR won't change what the other headsets are doing, success or failure.
normally I would totally run with that however many people here at MMORPG have said that the only headset that will succede is the Sony VR headset making it an extreemly important data point here.
I personally think Sony VR is not important but most critics of VR do so it needs to be added as a pillar. One cant say 'the only headset that will succeed is Sony, VR has failed' before the Sony is even out
Even the most successful failure is still a failure. Doesn't mean Sony VR will be one, or a success. It's the only headset I haven't tried. Regardless, sony VR won't change what the other headsets are doing, success or failure.
12 months from right now or 12 months from October.
Either one doesnt make a huge difference but yes I think if one thinks that the only headset that has a chance to be successful then they should not declare VR dead or alive before said HMD is even for sale.
sorry but your just going to have to wait
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
normally I would totally run with that however many people here at MMORPG have said that the only headset that will succede is the Sony VR headset making it an extreemly important data point here.
I personally think Sony VR is not important but most critics of VR do so it needs to be added as a pillar. One cant say 'the only headset that will succeed is Sony, VR has failed' before the Sony is even out
Even the most successful failure is still a failure. Doesn't mean Sony VR will be one, or a success. It's the only headset I haven't tried. Regardless, sony VR won't change what the other headsets are doing, success or failure.
12 months from right now or 12 months from October.
Either one doesnt make a huge difference but yes I think if one thinks that the only headset that has a chance to be successful then they should not declare VR dead or alive before said HMD is even for sale.
sorry but your just going to have to wait
I don't have to "wait" time moves forward either way. What happens in the future won't change how things are today. And today isn't looking so good for VR.
normally I would totally run with that however many people here at MMORPG have said that the only headset that will succede is the Sony VR headset making it an extreemly important data point here.
I personally think Sony VR is not important but most critics of VR do so it needs to be added as a pillar. One cant say 'the only headset that will succeed is Sony, VR has failed' before the Sony is even out
Even the most successful failure is still a failure. Doesn't mean Sony VR will be one, or a success. It's the only headset I haven't tried. Regardless, sony VR won't change what the other headsets are doing, success or failure.
12 months from right now or 12 months from October.
Either one doesnt make a huge difference but yes I think if one thinks that the only headset that has a chance to be successful then they should not declare VR dead or alive before said HMD is even for sale.
sorry but your just going to have to wait
I don't have to "wait" time moves forward either way. What happens in the future won't change how things are today. And today isn't looking so good for VR.
if you want to call VR dead before the best VR HDM is even released to the public I guess that is your business. I just think its silly so there is that we dont have to talk about it anymore
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Comments
first sentence first paragraph:
'The VR industry is growing at a ferocious rate'
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"Most of the time, we hear answers that are different versions of “We’re currently not making any money, but hope not to go out of business before the market hits mass adoption”."
The entire article is about monetization because they currently aren't making money... it's "growing at a ferocious rate" which basically is the same thing they've been saying for months... that changes about.. oh.. uhm.. ehhh nothing... at all... because VR is still doing poorly financially.
also that quote you gave ended in 'was true for 2015'
want to know my take on all this?
Its neither growing or doing poorly. it hasnt started yet.
that is my view
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This have been a good conversation
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http://www.reuters.com/article/us-virtualreality-companies-stocks-idUSKCN0Y824Q
"The increasing focus on virtual reality comes at a time when first-quarter earnings for the S&P 500 are expected to fall 5.4 percent from the same time last year, while second-quarter earnings are expected to fall 3.4 percent from the year before, according to Thomson Reuters estimates.
Yet for all of the enthusiasm, there is little evidence that virtual reality can deliver substantial growth."
"Virtual reality is such a small part of Facebook's business that most analysts do not break out Oculus in their revenue or earnings estimates. Nor did Facebook give any numbers on how many Oculus headsets it expects to sell on its most recent earnings call."
Just saying... even the big companies aren't expecting to make money.. they're just hoping it catches on... and it hasn't yet.
Here's a good one:
http://mediashift.org/2016/04/virtual-reality-is-growing-but-can-it-make-money/
"“The market doesn’t need to be huge to be viable as long as it is addressable and well-defined,” said Shawn DuBravac, chief economist at the Consumer Technology Association. He admits, however, that the lack of distribution channels and relatively high price of headsets will temper consumer uptake for a while. Headsets costs between $99 and $799 at the moment."
It goes on like the other article to determine how in the hell they will be able to use VR to be profitable. Right now .. they just... aren't.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
so again I say 'my position is that VR hasnt started yet'
why? because Sony VR isnt out yet and Oculus doesnt have controllers out yet (but the supply chain for the headsets is now unclogged which is also a requirement). When both of those things happen then on that date the clock STARTS. not as in 'already well into it' no. STARTS at that point
also as a side note Xbox didnt make money for years when it first came out
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Xbox hardware NEVER makes profits.. it was never meant to make profits on hardware. If Xbox was a hardware only company then, yeah, you'd be right, but Microsoft is a software company. Furthermore nobody can really determine what the exact amount of profit and loss are.. they even stated the XB1 had a net loss of 400M but thats over earnings of 1.7 Billion for their division.
To put this in comparison, Amazon ..the largest online retailer... constantly fails in being largely profitable year over year due to different ways of growth, but the annual earnings far outweigh losses when you're putting money back into the company.
The major difference between companies like Amazon and Microsofts Xbox division and VR companies, is that, the growth isn't INDUSTRY growth.. its EARNINGS growth... which VR companies are shy releasing.. why? because there are no real earnings to speak of.
Look it's fine if you're unprofitable for a few years, when you see wide adoption like the Xbox did. It overtook other consoles within a few years, there was a growth metric.
As stated... Reuters stated they there is no indication of substantial growth.... That is going to be an issue. If they were selling sets hand over fist this would be a non issue, but that isn't the case.. sales are very slow... sub 100K for each PC set. It's not the type of growth they expected.
2. Oculus has stated 'we want to sell the hardware at cost, its not where we plan to make the money' which is what? exactly how Xbox operates? so yeah I would not expect a profit revenue stream from VR for years franckly and I dont see why anyone who knows these two items would expect otherwise
3. I think what the article is refering to when it mentions growth is industry investment which is in fact very large and makes investment into the first xbox look like childs play. so there is that to concern yourself with
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We'll also base it on what analysts are saying, not some random forum person, not me.. not you.. but analysts recently slashed expectations:
http://siliconangle.com/blog/2016/03/08/superdata-less-optimistic-about-vr-slashes-2016-forecast-by-nearly-a-third/
"“However, this initial lull in adoption has shortened due to both product visibility on a global scale and the speed at which manufacturing costs drop. So although we see that initial struggle for VR, there will be a relatively quick push upward within the next 3-5 years.”
As a result of its more conservative approach to the near-term performance of VR, SuperData has lowered its forecast for 2016 from $5.1 billion to $3.6 billion. However, the firm still believes that the VR industry will see rapid growth in the next few years, predicting that the market will reach $22.9 billion by 2020."
So they still believe that they'll make the 22 BILLION mark even though expectations for this year are continuing to decrease.
If PS4 launches and it too doesn't meet expectations, I can only imagine how the new forecast will look for 2020.
Seeing as how they've estimated that by 2026 no VR headsets will be tethered to PCs, it sounds like a lot of overestimations to me. But currently, all this "ferocity" for VR this year sure has gotten analysts reducing their forecasts...
***sidenote, why would I concern mysefl with the xbox anyways? It's been around for over a decade and is now transitioning into the PC space... they're quite profitable.. their "growth" has never looked better.
In fact actually I am even more radical then that.
At the start of a race I dont think one should call something a win or a lose. Which is why I really think it should be a full 12 months after all headliner VR headsets are for sale as a retail item which in this case is Oculus (w controllers) Vive and SonyVR.
Declaring a race won before people have started, while they are just starting to run or even before they get to the starting line is being silly.
that is my view
'hello sir yes I am starting work today'
'you failed!'
'but sir I dont even have an office yet'
'ah well now you do...you fail!'
'can I do some work maybe? is that asking too much?'
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I know you hope that PSVR will be a great success too.. but lets be honest with eachother and the rest of the world.. if they want a set they can buy one.. not a PSVR system for another month... but all the other systems have been available either through the manufacturer or through other resellers.... and now you can get them directly from the manufacturers with no wait... .. hows that not available to consumers?
Vive
Sony VR
1. all of them not one of them, all of them.
2. On a persons first day at work as soon as they sit down on their office chair for the first time I dont think its fair to call them a failure or a success. I think a full 12 months after ALL of these devices are sellable and people can reasonably buy them without having to wait 4 months then we can say yes or no. You have at best more than 12 months to wait before making such declarations which I am not sure if you noticed, I make effort to not do.
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Just like a persons first day on the job.. there are people that don't make it a week.. people that get fired after a month.. Rift is going on 6 months for their CV unit, and over 4 years for their sets to be on the market.
In 6 more months you'll make up something else.. some other reason why it's not working.. then again ad infinitum..
People need to stop thinking about what things might be in the future... it's what it is right now, because you can't count on the future. Ever. The new predictions of lessening VR's sales by over 2 billion alone and sliding is a good indicator.. the same prediction of AR games skyrocketing this year due to a single title is another good indicator.
Funny that people saw VR coming a mile away.. over 4 years away with Rift and over a year ago for Phone VR, and a game nobody really knew existed a month using AR and a cell phone made hundreds of millions of dollars within a few weeks.
I wouldn't personally use VR if it was free. I don't want nothing to do with any of that lol. People already take video games way too seriously, can't even imagine what VR would do.
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4 years since the first Rift Development Kit
6 Month for Vive and Rift Consumer Versions Launched
Several other headset brands in stores and online at reduced price points.
Demos in just about every electronics and cell phone store of both kinds of headsets
Marketing speak at every turn about "VR being the Future" and the "most exciting new technology"
Get a clue, it hasn't been 12 minutes... they've been trying to push "the future" on people for months. People aren't buying, and now they're trying to figure out why.
'releasing of DEVELOPER products does not count as a sales value for a RETAIL released to the public for mass consumption product'
'All the main hitters need to be in the parking lot, not just one'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I personally think Sony VR is not important but most critics of VR do so it needs to be added as a pillar. One cant say 'the only headset that will succeed is Sony, VR has failed' before the Sony is even out
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
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Either one doesnt make a huge difference but yes I think if one thinks that the only headset that has a chance to be successful then they should not declare VR dead or alive before said HMD is even for sale.
sorry but your just going to have to wait
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