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Black Desert gone HARD p2w! (Cash shop Items, available at Market Place next week)

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  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,060
    Phry said:
    Lleith said:
    It is amazing that many of the posters here was saying that "it is journey that matters" just a few weeks ago and now all that matters to them is that someone will get a +15 gear 1 month before them. Ohhh western gamers, there are no bigger musical chair in this world than your ever changing minds...
    I know that this is very hard to understand, since many youths - likely including yourself - lack both principles and scruples. But not everyone else does. Even to the most diehard devotee, some things are worth quitting over. 
    I've no intention of trying to compete with others in a game thats dominated by wallet warriors.
    Its not so much a matter of principle, though there is one, but that wallet warriors tend to be the worst types of people, they have to be better than others, regardless of personal merit, and the ego's involved of those who think that money can buy them anything, and in P2W games it frequently does, is beyond reprehensible, i'd rather leave a game i love to play than engage with those types, on any level.
    Wait, don't you play EVE?  I know I support the game, but face it, people can spend money in it just as much as they can here.  Fortunately the design  means they have very little impact in my overall game play, so I don't care, but I do acknowledge people can gain significant benefits by spending, just doesn't affect me at all.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • sschruppsschrupp Member UncommonPosts: 694
    Phry said:
    Feels like a massive kick in the teeth tbh :(

    'J Geils Band - Centerfold' moment.
    I guess it really is all downhill from here  >:)
    Aye.
    Thankfully, WoW:Legion comes soon, and the invasions start next week along with Demon Hunter. Blizzard never ever disappointed me that way. And they never will.

    This said, there's a massive uprising on the BDO forums in the thread about that. Be sure to post your disagreement. It's NOT live yet. Maybe seeing it's not an uprising, but rather a major riot, they will change their mind?
    Most likely someone has pointed this out already but WoW is already doing this with the $$$>Token>Gold process. 20 bucks buys you 40k gold thereabouts. And then of course buying a lvl 100 character for $60. So if BDO doing it disappoints you I'm not sure how Blizzard doing it doesn't disappoint you.

    Personally I'm fine with it. I don't have as much time to play as I used to, so being able to spend some money to allow me to play end game content is great. That's just more money for the developers to make a better game for everyone. You're all welcome! I'm taking one for the team! $$$
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,060
    Lleith said:
    DMKano said:
    Nyctelios said:
    .... Man....

    Everybody has the same amount of time in a day because the numbers of hours is a known finite number that can be put into certain task. You can put less, it's up to you, not more.

    The same can't be said about money.

    If you get 2 person of irrelevant race, gender, in same overall health quality and place them in a room with the same clothes and same computer they can spend the same amount of hours per day playing a game which is 24. If you take the controlled space out the amount of hours persist. It is the amount of hours in a day. 

    As I said, if your share of the hours is spent on something else that's up to you.

    You are stating that the responsibility for you spending your time on something else is not yours.
    Man, it's your life, get your shit together.


    Can we talk about reality here for a second - as in how real people actually play?

    A family man with 2 kids and a wife who is the sole breadwinner and works full time - won't have the same amount of time as a teenager who lives with his parents and is on summer break.

    The responsibility of a working man is to take care of his family - are you saying he should abandon them so he can spend more time gaming? 

    That's what you call "getting your shit" together?

    What people are looking for is an even playing field in game mechanics that more prosperous members of society cannot benefit (overwhelmingly) from. We already face gross inequalities in our real lives - the rich lord over us like kings, flying hither and thither in private jets; spending months exploring rugged coastlines from mega yachts; enjoying the fruits of a nearly inexhaustible tree of wealth and the exclusivity of knowing the most powerful people in the world, any one of which could "help a brother" down on his luck out with a fat loan in the blink of an eye. 

    Why should people welcome those SAME disparities in a video game? In their escapist window from the harshness of the unforgiving world? Your average player is already getting stomped by the knuckle-dragging 18-hours-a-day trog army, now you want them to get smashed by the rich boys, too? At least the former are working for their advantage - moneybags doesn't have to do jack, he just ponies up the gold card for some phat loot.

    You're never going to do anything about the basement gremlin who has chosen to become a kind of digital-age monk and pledge a life of servitude to their computer monitor, but, by God, we shouldn't how to put up with rich, spoiled twats flaunting real-world wealth in a friggin' video game.
    So what you are is "not wealthy" and envious of those that are.  Tough way to live.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • UhwopUhwop Member UncommonPosts: 1,791
    Games no different than Archeage.  Buy cash shop items to sell to buy the BiS items in game, and that is no different than just selling the items directly in the cash shop, but BDO charges you for the box. 

    They are doing the complete opposite of what they said they would, and reason for making the game BUY TO PLAY.  

    It's not a problem to do this in most games, because most games require you to play for the items yourself, not buy them for in game currency.  Nor are most games based around competitive pvp. 

    Developers know this stuff is P2W, they wouldn't be doing a poll to gauge player disappointment over this if they thought it wasn't P2W.  They are right this moment doing a poll to see if enough people are ok with this that it won't cost them more than they'll make. 


  • Veexer_NuiVeexer_Nui Member UncommonPosts: 268
    Buy to play AND cash shop? You're stupid for even installing the game.

    Archeage EU - Nui

  • UhwopUhwop Member UncommonPosts: 1,791
    edited August 2016
    Ramajama said:
    Cecropia said:
    This is one reason I steer clear of F2P mmos; don't want to invest my time in a game where this can happen at any time. 
    It can happen in any game, including sub ones. And btw, BDO is not f2p. 

    Tell us the ones that allow you to sell the best in slot items, and are based on competitive pvp. 

    Archeage comes to mind, and as someone that paid to win my ass off in that game, along with most of the people in the guild I ran, you can not tell me that it isn't pay to win.  People would hit max level and have some of the best gear in game within days, because they dumped a few hundred into the cash shop.

    It's fine when it's a free to play game, it is not cool to market your game as buy to play and specifically state that you're not going to have that sort of advantage based cash shop, and then do a 180 a few months later; after selling a million boxes. 

    PS:  Trion had to keep merging servers and I moved onto BDO because there weren't enough people to do castle sieges properly.  Just because it makes money, doesn't mean it makes for a healthy game. 
  • BloodaxesBloodaxes Member EpicPosts: 4,662
    Actually the best set while possible to buy in store will be way too much expensive to buy (World Bosses armour). Enchanting it has the chance of losing durability and to increase it back you need a cash shop item (Which is not that great) or the same piece of equipment.



  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    edited August 2016
    DMKano said:
    Phry said:

    And because they do its totally okay for those with more money than others to use that advantage in any way they want.
    Tbh its that kind of thinking that imo represents the very worst factors of some online games.


    Like I said inequality of time is a factor in online games that is deemed acceptable

    Inequality of money is deemed unacceptable.

    What about intelligence or skill?

    Lots of inequalities exist and yet the only one that offends is money.

    A player who has 16 hours a day to play has a huge advantage, over a player who has 2 hours a day.

    Giving players with little time but enough money an option to fast track through games is a great idea.



    Your opinions are grounded on a distorted reality.

    When it comes to games, and the outcome of games, money should never be a factor. Again, the objective of a game is to compete.  And competition is driven by a player's own skills, qualities, and abilities matched against an opponent's skills, qualities and abilities, and may the player with the better skills, qualities, and abilities win.  These are inherent personal qualities that players pit against one another to beat or "win" at a game against an opponent.

    Your analogy is equivalent to a non athletic basketball player paying an athletic basketball player money to "win" a game against another basektball player because that non-athletic basketball player did not have the time to practice and become a better basketball player.  In that case, as in a non-athletic game such as an MMO, it was the money paid that won the game, not the skills and abilities of the player.  Why should that exchange be deemed unacceptable, but perfectly acceptable in an MMO?

    Lack of available time should never be an excuse for not being able to compete.  If you want to compete, then you should be expected to put in the time to become the best.  Becoming the best takes practice, and practice takes time.  Finding an excuse, such as lack of time, to circumvent one the most fundamental elements of achievement, which is work ethic, is the very definition of entitlement.

    One should not be be able to buy everything, and that is particularly true when it comes to competition and gaming.
  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    edited August 2016
    sschrupp said:
    Phry said:
    Feels like a massive kick in the teeth tbh :(

    'J Geils Band - Centerfold' moment.
    I guess it really is all downhill from here  >:)
    Aye.
    Thankfully, WoW:Legion comes soon, and the invasions start next week along with Demon Hunter. Blizzard never ever disappointed me that way. And they never will.

    This said, there's a massive uprising on the BDO forums in the thread about that. Be sure to post your disagreement. It's NOT live yet. Maybe seeing it's not an uprising, but rather a major riot, they will change their mind?
    Most likely someone has pointed this out already but WoW is already doing this with the $$$>Token>Gold process. 20 bucks buys you 40k gold thereabouts. And then of course buying a lvl 100 character for $60. So if BDO doing it disappoints you I'm not sure how Blizzard doing it doesn't disappoint you.
    Very simple. You can't pay to win in WoW. Gold doesn't get you the best gear. Only playing does that, be it PvE or PvP.
    Wrong!! You can buy your way into mythic raids and get free roll for loot in WoW. Even with newest PvP changes by normalizing items in PvP, players with top tier PvE items will still have about 5% stats advantage over players with full PvP set.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    DMKano said:
    Phry said:

    And because they do its totally okay for those with more money than others to use that advantage in any way they want.
    Tbh its that kind of thinking that imo represents the very worst factors of some online games.


    Like I said inequality of time is a factor in online games that is deemed acceptable

    Inequality of money is deemed unacceptable.

    What about intelligence or skill?

    Lots of inequalities exist and yet the only one that offends is money.

    A player who has 16 hours a day to play has a huge advantage, over a player who has 2 hours a day.

    Giving players with little time but enough money an option to fast track through games is a great idea.



    Your opinions are grounded on a distorted reality.

    When it comes to games, and the outcome of games, money should never be a factor. Again, the objective of a game is to compete.  And competition is driven by a player's own skills, qualities, and abilities matched against an opponent's skills, qualities and abilities, and may the player with the better skills, qualities, and abilities win.  These are inherent personal qualities that players pit against one another to beat or "win" at a game against an opponent.

    Your analogy is equivalent to a non athletic basketball player paying an athletic basketball player money to "win" a game against another basektball player because that non-athletic basketball player did not have the time to practice and become a better basketball player to beat their opponent.  In that case, as in a non-athletic game such as an MMO, it was the money paid that won the game, not the skills and abilities of the player.  How is that not acceptable but perfectly acceptable in an MMO?

    Lack of available time should never be an excuse for not being able to compete.  If you want to compete, then you should be expected to put in the time to become the best.  Becoming the best takes practice, and practice takes time.  Finding an excuse, such as lack of time, to circumvent one the most fundamental elements of achievement, which is work ethic, is the very definition of entitlement.

    One should not be be able to buy everything, and that is particularly true when it comes to competition and gaming.
    There is nothing in PC gaming that requires athletic body, all it requires is an active brain and active hands, so your analogy about athletic field is moot.

    If it is competition you are talking about i don't see how someone getting something a month before you stops you from competing when you have the equal in game opportunity to achieve the same goal. All they are doing is that they are compensating for the time that they can not spend playing with money. Or perhaps making things go faster.

    Frankly you people are making too much fuss about something that should not even be a concern.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    DMKano said:
    Nyctelios said:
    .... Man....

    Everybody has the same amount of time in a day because the numbers of hours is a known finite number that can be put into certain task. You can put less, it's up to you, not more.

    The same can't be said about money.

    If you get 2 person of irrelevant race, gender, in same overall health quality and place them in a room with the same clothes and same computer they can spend the same amount of hours per day playing a game which is 24. If you take the controlled space out the amount of hours persist. It is the amount of hours in a day. 

    As I said, if your share of the hours is spent on something else that's up to you.

    You are stating that the responsibility for you spending your time on something else is not yours.
    Man, it's your life, get your shit together.


    Can we talk about reality here for a second - as in how real people actually play?

    A family man with 2 kids and a wife who is the sole breadwinner and works full time - won't have the same amount of time as a teenager who lives with his parents and is on summer break.

    The responsibility of a working man is to take care of his family - are you saying he should abandon them so he can spend more time gaming? 

    That's what you call "getting your shit" together?


    * Chimes in the violin*

    Don't make your real world problems and responsibilities an excuse to bring you in game favors.  If you can't compete on your own volition, for whatever reason, then don't play the game.
  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    edited August 2016
    sschrupp said:
    Phry said:
    Feels like a massive kick in the teeth tbh :(

    'J Geils Band - Centerfold' moment.
    I guess it really is all downhill from here  >:)
    Aye.
    Thankfully, WoW:Legion comes soon, and the invasions start next week along with Demon Hunter. Blizzard never ever disappointed me that way. And they never will.

    This said, there's a massive uprising on the BDO forums in the thread about that. Be sure to post your disagreement. It's NOT live yet. Maybe seeing it's not an uprising, but rather a major riot, they will change their mind?
    Most likely someone has pointed this out already but WoW is already doing this with the $$$>Token>Gold process. 20 bucks buys you 40k gold thereabouts. And then of course buying a lvl 100 character for $60. So if BDO doing it disappoints you I'm not sure how Blizzard doing it doesn't disappoint you.
    Very simple. You can't pay to win in WoW. Gold doesn't get you the best gear. Only playing does that, be it PvE or PvP.
    Wrong!! You can buy your way into mythic raids and get free roll in loot in WoW. Even with newest PvP changes by normalizing items in PvP, players with top tier PvE items will still have about 5% stats advantage over players with full PvP set.
    You mean, paying other players to take you in a mythic raid?
    How is that "pay to win"? Your group still has to complete the raid to get any gear. You still have to play the game the normal way. And in my guild, we do this for free... so is that "free to win"?

    What you say is that basically any player interaction in a MMORPG involving one player or more helping another player is pay to win... which is, obviously, nonsense.

    My forum avatar applies more than ever.
    I guess i will have to write it in more detail. SO here goes :

    1. Buy token
    2. Sell token for gold
    3. Use the gold to get into raid and get best tier gear.
    4. Get stats advantage in PvP.

    Clear? Also we are strictly talking about effect of RMT here. So your guild activity details to negate my point is your avatar worthy.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • UhwopUhwop Member UncommonPosts: 1,791
    sschrupp said:
    Phry said:
    Feels like a massive kick in the teeth tbh :(

    'J Geils Band - Centerfold' moment.
    I guess it really is all downhill from here  >:)
    Aye.
    Thankfully, WoW:Legion comes soon, and the invasions start next week along with Demon Hunter. Blizzard never ever disappointed me that way. And they never will.

    This said, there's a massive uprising on the BDO forums in the thread about that. Be sure to post your disagreement. It's NOT live yet. Maybe seeing it's not an uprising, but rather a major riot, they will change their mind?
    Most likely someone has pointed this out already but WoW is already doing this with the $$$>Token>Gold process. 20 bucks buys you 40k gold thereabouts. And then of course buying a lvl 100 character for $60. So if BDO doing it disappoints you I'm not sure how Blizzard doing it doesn't disappoint you.
    Very simple. You can't pay to win in WoW. Gold doesn't get you the best gear. Only playing does that, be it PvE or PvP.
    Wrong!! You can buy your way into mythic raids and get free roll in loot in WoW. Even with newest PvP changes by normalizing items in PvP, players with top tier PvE items will still have about 5% stats advantage over players with full PvP set.

    That is not the same thing.  People have been buying there way into raids since raids were put into wow. 

    WoW isn't a competitive pvp game.  Your experience is no different if there are 20 people on your server or 2000; it makes a world of difference when there aren't enough people to do sieges that are central to the game. 

    People don't stick around in competitive pvp games when developers allow people to buy an advantage. 
  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    edited August 2016



    Your opinions are grounded on a distorted reality.

    When it comes to games, and the outcome of games, money should never be a factor. Again, the objective of a game is to compete.  And competition is driven by a player's own skills, qualities, and abilities matched against an opponent's skills, qualities and abilities, and may the player with the better skills, qualities, and abilities win.  These are inherent personal qualities that players pit against one another to beat or "win" at a game against an opponent.

    Your analogy is equivalent to a non athletic basketball player paying an athletic basketball player money to "win" a game against another basektball player because that non-athletic basketball player did not have the time to practice and become a better basketball player to beat their opponent.  In that case, as in a non-athletic game such as an MMO, it was the money paid that won the game, not the skills and abilities of the player.  How is that not acceptable but perfectly acceptable in an MMO?

    Lack of available time should never be an excuse for not being able to compete.  If you want to compete, then you should be expected to put in the time to become the best.  Becoming the best takes practice, and practice takes time.  Finding an excuse, such as lack of time, to circumvent one the most fundamental elements of achievement, which is work ethic, is the very definition of entitlement.

    One should not be be able to buy everything, and that is particularly true when it comes to competition and gaming.
    There is nothing in PC gaming that requires athletic body, all it requires is an active brain and active hands, so your analogy about athletic field is moot.


    Then how about using them, instead of using your wallet!

    You make my point without even realizing it.

    Post edited by LacedOpium on
  • UhwopUhwop Member UncommonPosts: 1,791



    Your opinions are grounded on a distorted reality.

    When it comes to games, and the outcome of games, money should never be a factor. Again, the objective of a game is to compete.  And competition is driven by a player's own skills, qualities, and abilities matched against an opponent's skills, qualities and abilities, and may the player with the better skills, qualities, and abilities win.  These are inherent personal qualities that players pit against one another to beat or "win" at a game against an opponent.

    Your analogy is equivalent to a non athletic basketball player paying an athletic basketball player money to "win" a game against another basektball player because that non-athletic basketball player did not have the time to practice and become a better basketball player to beat their opponent.  In that case, as in a non-athletic game such as an MMO, it was the money paid that won the game, not the skills and abilities of the player.  How is that not acceptable but perfectly acceptable in an MMO?

    Lack of available time should never be an excuse for not being able to compete.  If you want to compete, then you should be expected to put in the time to become the best.  Becoming the best takes practice, and practice takes time.  Finding an excuse, such as lack of time, to circumvent one the most fundamental elements of achievement, which is work ethic, is the very definition of entitlement.

    One should not be be able to buy everything, and that is particularly true when it comes to competition and gaming.
    There is nothing in PC gaming that requires athletic body, all it requires is an active brain and active hands, so your analogy about athletic field is moot.


    Then how about using them, instead of using your wallet!

    You make my point without even realizing it.
    Some people think that punching in a credit card number takes the use of your brain and hands...

    It takes skill to convince yourself that you can buy your way to being better at a game. 
  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    Uhwop said:
    sschrupp said:
    Phry said:
    Feels like a massive kick in the teeth tbh :(

    'J Geils Band - Centerfold' moment.
    I guess it really is all downhill from here  >:)
    Aye.
    Thankfully, WoW:Legion comes soon, and the invasions start next week along with Demon Hunter. Blizzard never ever disappointed me that way. And they never will.

    This said, there's a massive uprising on the BDO forums in the thread about that. Be sure to post your disagreement. It's NOT live yet. Maybe seeing it's not an uprising, but rather a major riot, they will change their mind?
    Most likely someone has pointed this out already but WoW is already doing this with the $$$>Token>Gold process. 20 bucks buys you 40k gold thereabouts. And then of course buying a lvl 100 character for $60. So if BDO doing it disappoints you I'm not sure how Blizzard doing it doesn't disappoint you.
    Very simple. You can't pay to win in WoW. Gold doesn't get you the best gear. Only playing does that, be it PvE or PvP.
    Wrong!! You can buy your way into mythic raids and get free roll in loot in WoW. Even with newest PvP changes by normalizing items in PvP, players with top tier PvE items will still have about 5% stats advantage over players with full PvP set.

    That is not the same thing.  People have been buying there way into raids since raids were put into wow. 

    WoW isn't a competitive pvp game.  Your experience is no different if there are 20 people on your server or 2000; it makes a world of difference when there aren't enough people to do sieges that are central to the game. 

    People don't stick around in competitive pvp games when developers allow people to buy an advantage. 
    That is indeed not same when the gold someone is using to buy into raid is coming from RMT.

    WoW is not a competitive PvP game but they have ranking PvP season that gives some neat rewards and also at the end of each year best PvPers from all over the world compete for $$ in blizzcon.

    LoL, DOTA2 and many other moba sell quicker xp gain or mastery gain or some sort yet people play them more than any other game.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    Uhwop said:



    Your opinions are grounded on a distorted reality.

    When it comes to games, and the outcome of games, money should never be a factor. Again, the objective of a game is to compete.  And competition is driven by a player's own skills, qualities, and abilities matched against an opponent's skills, qualities and abilities, and may the player with the better skills, qualities, and abilities win.  These are inherent personal qualities that players pit against one another to beat or "win" at a game against an opponent.

    Your analogy is equivalent to a non athletic basketball player paying an athletic basketball player money to "win" a game against another basektball player because that non-athletic basketball player did not have the time to practice and become a better basketball player to beat their opponent.  In that case, as in a non-athletic game such as an MMO, it was the money paid that won the game, not the skills and abilities of the player.  How is that not acceptable but perfectly acceptable in an MMO?

    Lack of available time should never be an excuse for not being able to compete.  If you want to compete, then you should be expected to put in the time to become the best.  Becoming the best takes practice, and practice takes time.  Finding an excuse, such as lack of time, to circumvent one the most fundamental elements of achievement, which is work ethic, is the very definition of entitlement.

    One should not be be able to buy everything, and that is particularly true when it comes to competition and gaming.
    There is nothing in PC gaming that requires athletic body, all it requires is an active brain and active hands, so your analogy about athletic field is moot.


    Then how about using them, instead of using your wallet!

    You make my point without even realizing it.
    Some people think that punching in a credit card number takes the use of your brain and hands...

    It takes skill to convince yourself that you can buy your way to being better at a game. 

    It's an excuse, a crutch, and nothing more.  They need to validate their excuse for using money to compete. It makes them feel better when they think they won based on their own skills, qualities, and abilities when nothing could be further from the truth.
  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560



    Your opinions are grounded on a distorted reality.

    When it comes to games, and the outcome of games, money should never be a factor. Again, the objective of a game is to compete.  And competition is driven by a player's own skills, qualities, and abilities matched against an opponent's skills, qualities and abilities, and may the player with the better skills, qualities, and abilities win.  These are inherent personal qualities that players pit against one another to beat or "win" at a game against an opponent.

    Your analogy is equivalent to a non athletic basketball player paying an athletic basketball player money to "win" a game against another basektball player because that non-athletic basketball player did not have the time to practice and become a better basketball player to beat their opponent.  In that case, as in a non-athletic game such as an MMO, it was the money paid that won the game, not the skills and abilities of the player.  How is that not acceptable but perfectly acceptable in an MMO?

    Lack of available time should never be an excuse for not being able to compete.  If you want to compete, then you should be expected to put in the time to become the best.  Becoming the best takes practice, and practice takes time.  Finding an excuse, such as lack of time, to circumvent one the most fundamental elements of achievement, which is work ethic, is the very definition of entitlement.

    One should not be be able to buy everything, and that is particularly true when it comes to competition and gaming.
    There is nothing in PC gaming that requires athletic body, all it requires is an active brain and active hands, so your analogy about athletic field is moot.


    Then how about using them, instead of using your credit card!

    You make my point without even realizing it.

    I guess you did not read rest of my post so i will write it again and more clearly :- all these people doing is compensating for the time they can not spend playing with money or make things go faster.

    When they are playing they are indeed using their brains and hands. Or were you thinking they were just throwing money at keyboard to automatically play the game for them?

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560
    Uhwop said:



    Your opinions are grounded on a distorted reality.

    When it comes to games, and the outcome of games, money should never be a factor. Again, the objective of a game is to compete.  And competition is driven by a player's own skills, qualities, and abilities matched against an opponent's skills, qualities and abilities, and may the player with the better skills, qualities, and abilities win.  These are inherent personal qualities that players pit against one another to beat or "win" at a game against an opponent.

    Your analogy is equivalent to a non athletic basketball player paying an athletic basketball player money to "win" a game against another basektball player because that non-athletic basketball player did not have the time to practice and become a better basketball player to beat their opponent.  In that case, as in a non-athletic game such as an MMO, it was the money paid that won the game, not the skills and abilities of the player.  How is that not acceptable but perfectly acceptable in an MMO?

    Lack of available time should never be an excuse for not being able to compete.  If you want to compete, then you should be expected to put in the time to become the best.  Becoming the best takes practice, and practice takes time.  Finding an excuse, such as lack of time, to circumvent one the most fundamental elements of achievement, which is work ethic, is the very definition of entitlement.

    One should not be be able to buy everything, and that is particularly true when it comes to competition and gaming.
    There is nothing in PC gaming that requires athletic body, all it requires is an active brain and active hands, so your analogy about athletic field is moot.


    Then how about using them, instead of using your wallet!

    You make my point without even realizing it.
    Some people think that punching in a credit card number takes the use of your brain and hands...

    It takes skill to convince yourself that you can buy your way to being better at a game. 

    It's an excuse, a crutch, and nothing more.  They need to validate their excuse for using money to compete. It makes them feel better when they think they won based on their own skills, qualities, and abilities when nothing could be further from the truth.
    Depends on the game. What i can see BDO is not that game, not in NA/EU at least.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327

    There is nothing in PC gaming that requires athletic body, all it requires is an active brain and active hands, so your analogy about athletic field is moot.


    Then how about using them, instead of using your credit card!

    You make my point without even realizing it.

    I guess you did not read rest of my post so i will write it again and more clearly :- all these people doing is compensating for the time they can not spend playing with money or make things go faster.

    When they are playing they are indeed using their brains and hands. Or were you thinking they were just throwing money at keyboard to automatically play the game for them?

    Oh i read it, and it still makes no sense.

    "Compensating" for time they can not spend playing with money is the very definition of P2W.

    How about just play the game like everyone else?

    If you don't have the time to compete, then don't play.
  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 3,069
    edited August 2016
    Time spent in a game = effort put into the game and should determine gear/gold/power/prestige/etc. in the game. If someone can "no-life" it and spend 10 hours a day playing a game and putting in that amount of effort, then they should be rewarded with the best gear, most gold, most power, etc. I can't no-life it and put in that kind of time in a game, and I accept that I'll never be a top-tier player in whatever game I happen to be playing.

    No one should be able to swipe their Visa a few times while only playing a few hours a week and end up on even footing with a player who plays the game like a full-time job. Imagine working at the same company for years, putting in 50 - 60 hour weeks year after year, and then some new hire off the street makes a "donation" to the company and ends up getting promoted to a position above you. And yes, I know, sadly that does happen in the real word. The point is, it shouldn't.
  • UhwopUhwop Member UncommonPosts: 1,791
    Uhwop said:
    sschrupp said:
    Phry said:
    Feels like a massive kick in the teeth tbh :(

    'J Geils Band - Centerfold' moment.
    I guess it really is all downhill from here  >:)
    Aye.
    Thankfully, WoW:Legion comes soon, and the invasions start next week along with Demon Hunter. Blizzard never ever disappointed me that way. And they never will.

    This said, there's a massive uprising on the BDO forums in the thread about that. Be sure to post your disagreement. It's NOT live yet. Maybe seeing it's not an uprising, but rather a major riot, they will change their mind?
    Most likely someone has pointed this out already but WoW is already doing this with the $$$>Token>Gold process. 20 bucks buys you 40k gold thereabouts. And then of course buying a lvl 100 character for $60. So if BDO doing it disappoints you I'm not sure how Blizzard doing it doesn't disappoint you.
    Very simple. You can't pay to win in WoW. Gold doesn't get you the best gear. Only playing does that, be it PvE or PvP.
    Wrong!! You can buy your way into mythic raids and get free roll in loot in WoW. Even with newest PvP changes by normalizing items in PvP, players with top tier PvE items will still have about 5% stats advantage over players with full PvP set.

    That is not the same thing.  People have been buying there way into raids since raids were put into wow. 

    WoW isn't a competitive pvp game.  Your experience is no different if there are 20 people on your server or 2000; it makes a world of difference when there aren't enough people to do sieges that are central to the game. 

    People don't stick around in competitive pvp games when developers allow people to buy an advantage. 
    That is indeed not same when the gold someone is using to buy into raid is coming from RMT.

    WoW is not a competitive PvP game but they have ranking PvP season that gives some neat rewards and also at the end of each year best PvPers from all over the world compete for $$ in blizzcon.

    LoL, DOTA2 and many other moba sell quicker xp gain or mastery gain or some sort yet people play them more than any other game.
    People tend to frown more on developer approved and provided RMT. 

    Especially when the core gameplay revolves around competitive pvp that requires lots of people participating for it to work. 

    This form of monetization is simply predatory.  They don't care if it drives people away, only that they make more money. 

    You wouldn't defend a bully that steals other kids lunch money, why do you people keep supporting corporations that act no better? 

    They just bragged about selling a million boxes less than a month ago, to do this immediately after is simply greed.  That is not something any consumer should defend or support. 
  • jesteralwaysjesteralways Member RarePosts: 2,560

    There is nothing in PC gaming that requires athletic body, all it requires is an active brain and active hands, so your analogy about athletic field is moot.


    Then how about using them, instead of using your credit card!

    You make my point without even realizing it.

    I guess you did not read rest of my post so i will write it again and more clearly :- all these people doing is compensating for the time they can not spend playing with money or make things go faster.

    When they are playing they are indeed using their brains and hands. Or were you thinking they were just throwing money at keyboard to automatically play the game for them?


    "Compensating" for time they can not spend playing with money is the very definition of P2W.
    No it is not. YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT PAY2WIN IS.

    Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342
    edited August 2016
    LacedOpium said:
    money should never be a factor.
    ...and you accuse others of "opinions grounded on a distorted reality"? Seriously...?
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,060
    Uhwop said:
    Ramajama said:
    Cecropia said:
    This is one reason I steer clear of F2P mmos; don't want to invest my time in a game where this can happen at any time. 
    It can happen in any game, including sub ones. And btw, BDO is not f2p. 

    Tell us the ones that allow you to sell the best in slot items, and are based on competitive pvp. 

    Archeage comes to mind, and as someone that paid to win my ass off in that game, along with most of the people in the guild I ran, you can not tell me that it isn't pay to win.  People would hit max level and have some of the best gear in game within days, because they dumped a few hundred into the cash shop.

    It's fine when it's a free to play game, it is not cool to market your game as buy to play and specifically state that you're not going to have that sort of advantage based cash shop, and then do a 180 a few months later; after selling a million boxes. 

    PS:  Trion had to keep merging servers and I moved onto BDO because there weren't enough people to do castle sieges properly.  Just because it makes money, doesn't mean it makes for a healthy game. 
    EVE for one.  I can buy PLEX from CCP, sell it on the CCP supported web page for in game ISK and use that ISK to buy a fleet of Titans (largest ships in the game) if I have the pilots who can sit of them.  (which, I can use ISK to purchase other people's characters to cover that aspect as well)

    Yet EVE survives in spite of it, because at the end of the day, the advantage is not nearly as great as people's imaginations.

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

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    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

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