Was wondering what Fantasy Westward Journey II was and came across this
It's a turn based MMORPG with 250 million registered users and 500 servers ....goodness me . It says mobile though.
The figures quoted should be for the PC MMORPG - it has existed since 2003 (player data were carried forward into current version) and has always been P2P. A mobile version was only released recently.
"A game is fun if it is learnable but not trivial" -- Togelius & Schmidhuber
After a cursory Google search, the address listed for SuperData is a Wework station that is vacant and available for rent. Someone a bit better at this kind of thing needs to have a look.
I'm not convinced this isn't a cover website run by
WeWork is an office building that can be rented by the month for many different businesses. It is a much cheaper way to rent an office in downtown NYC than many other options. There is nothing to that. Wework is global.
That they don't have an address and their data is locked behind a large paywall. This doesn't seem sketchy to you?
um, actually it's not sketchy at all.
A lot of small tech companies work at those types of places. In the case of superdata, they use a webpage for you to contact them but most likely have an address for vendors (though quite a bit is now done electronically) or even a p.o. box.
There is a similar company down the street from me that allows small companies to be in the city but not have to deal with the overhead of renting large amounts of commercial real estate. They also don't have to employ reception people and don't need to purchase and maintain server equipment (necessarily - some setups are different).
heck, we rent 5 cubicles to a british company because they don't want to deal with the hassle of maintaining "a space".
Welcome to the modern era!
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I love this because in spite of people saying that SWTOR has done poorly the decision to hybrid P2P with F2P has clearly paid off for them. Bravo !
Well, SW:TOR was headed for failure after launch, so it was a proven bad product in terms of customer satisfaction and retention.
But, the switch to F2P has definitely been a financial success, so good news for Bioware and EA I guess. Still feel that, for players, the switch made things worse in terms of gameplay and quality, but I guess a bad game that is still running is better than no game at all.
As to the SuperData report, just the usual complaints:
Classifications - completely fucked. You would never buy a superdata report to read their analysis because their analysis is wrong. For example, this report tells you that F2P MMOs are extremely profitable but they've reached that conclusion by including non-MMOs. So, these graphics that we get shown are completely meaningless.
Lack of data - SuperData collect as much data as possible but it is by no means complete. They have access to some information publicly (such as investors reports), some data they probably buy themselves (like retail reports from shops) and some they get direct from devs/publishers. But, they are missing an awful lot of data regarding MMOs. Given digital distribution plus ingame sales / subscriptions, most MMO data has to be voluntarily supplied by the developers / publishers. Superdata admit that not many of them do, so the list we see is not complete.
If I were a developer, I'd still buy the SD report in order to get the data, but (as I'm sure most companies do) I'd use the raw data provided to analyse the market for myself. I would never rely on the analysis done by SD because its very wrong.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr80 Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr5X Shaman
On their about page, they say their database covers ~48million online gamers spending habits. There are an estimated 1.2billion gamers in the world and an estimated 700million online gamers.
This means super data only knows the spending habits of ~7% of the online gaming population. I'm sure that data is accurate (i.e. not falsified), I'm just saying what about the other 93%? What are they doing?
This page describes some of their methodology. It clearly states that they are reliant on receiving data direct from developers and publishers and that their database covers almost 500 games. 500? Thats a drop in the ocean. If it was 500 MMOs, great, that'd be pretty much all of them, but 500 games in total, inclusive of all platforms? There are over 500 free2play games that I can get on my windows phone alone, let alone paid games, android games, iphone games etc before you even touch console and pc. Theres what, 7000+ games on steam?
If you read further down the terminology page, you'll see their definitions are incorrect but are also inconsistent with their reports.
"MMO/MMOG: Massively Multiplayer Online client-based and browser-based games that can involve both persistent and/or instance-based worlds in which users can interact in real-time with one another within a simulated environment. These games often include an independent virtual economy."
They've just described any online multiplayer game and completed ignored the "massively" qualifier.
"Pay-to-play (P2P)/Subscription-based MMO: Massively Multiplayer Online games that earn revenue from subscriptions, expansion packs, and microtransaction-based virtual items and services. A subscription fee or premium account status is required from all users prior to access. Includes revenue contributions from qualifying Hybrid MMOs."
Using their own definition, SW:TOR is not a P2P MMO because you don't require a subscription or premium account to access the game.
So, this is why I say that the data from superdata is useful and worth the money, but any analysis done by superdata themselves is meaningless, both because their terminology / classifications are wrong and also because they don't have enough data. So, a top 5 list is pointless if you only have data on 1% of games. Imagine seeing the top 5 p2p list without WoW on it. Its only there because Blizzard provide the data. It may be that FFXIV actually earns more, but we won't ever know because SD might not have their information.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr80 Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr5X Shaman
Ok, so it's just assumptions based on their About page. Your statement made it sound like you were basing it off the actual data, and from what I've seen the actual data is accurate and sound.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
After a cursory Google search, the address listed for SuperData is a Wework station that is vacant and available for rent. Someone a bit better at this kind of thing needs to have a look.
I'm not convinced this isn't a cover website run by @nariusseldon
WeWork is an office building that can be rented by the month for many different businesses. It is a much cheaper way to rent an office in downtown NYC than many other options. There is nothing to that. Wework is global.
That they don't have an address and their data is locked behind a large paywall. This doesn't seem sketchy to you?
“Reports provided by SuperData have been an
invaluable source of information on global market trends and competition
to our marketing team.”
—Lyuba Kharitonova, Senior Researcher, CCP Games
“We’ve used SuperData to advise us on entering the
online Free to Play game space. They helped us build rational business
cases based on data and insights we otherwise did not have access to.
Their domain knowledge and timely efforts were invaluable!”
—Walter Somol, VP Publishing, Harmonix Music Systems
“I consider SuperData the high bar for today’s
research companies, addressing the digital games market head on with a
critical mass of telemetry and trending I trust. Joost van Dreunen and
his team are the new breed of research academics who are unparalleled at
analyzing both quant and qual data to help myself and the industry move
away from reactive knee-jerking towards predictive decisions. SuperData
has helped tremendously to shape my recent strategic choices, from
portfolio planning to business model pivots to genre bending.”
—Torrie Dorrell, Strategy & Business, GaaS & F2P, Microsoft Game Studios
Thanks for that. I'm starting to understand why CCP has made all of those "brilliant" (not) marketing and product decisions in recent years including Dust 514, monacle-gate,WOD, and ashcanning furthur development of WIS.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
After a cursory Google search, the address listed for SuperData is a Wework station that is vacant and available for rent. Someone a bit better at this kind of thing needs to have a look.
I'm not convinced this isn't a cover website run by @nariusseldon
WeWork is an office building that can be rented by the month for many different businesses. It is a much cheaper way to rent an office in downtown NYC than many other options. There is nothing to that. Wework is global.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
After a cursory Google search, the address listed for SuperData is a Wework station that is vacant and available for rent. Someone a bit better at this kind of thing needs to have a look.
I'm not convinced this isn't a cover website run by @nariusseldon
WeWork is an office building that can be rented by the month for many different businesses. It is a much cheaper way to rent an office in downtown NYC than many other options. There is nothing to that. Wework is global.
After a cursory Google search, the address listed for SuperData is a Wework station that is vacant and available for rent. Someone a bit better at this kind of thing needs to have a look.
I'm not convinced this isn't a cover website run by @nariusseldon
WeWork is an office building that can be rented by the month for many different businesses. It is a much cheaper way to rent an office in downtown NYC than many other options. There is nothing to that. Wework is global.
That they don't have an address and their data is locked behind a large paywall. This doesn't seem sketchy to you?
NO. Do you think the moon landings were fake?
Didn't realize I was being unreasonable by looking for a stable address for their business or asking for sources on the information they're sharing.
Not unreasonable, they just are very well known and have been for a long time now. They partner with the biggest publishers in the world. Like Microsoft, Google, Blizzard, Nintendo. They are very well known already. Just perhaps not to you.
Well known doesn't mean they're good at what they do. Again, what are their sources? I imagine most people on this forum could make charts and graphs, just like them, by rounding up a bunch of data readily available on Google. What makes their data more accurate than random forum user 236?
After a cursory Google search, the address listed for SuperData is a Wework station that is vacant and available for rent. Someone a bit better at this kind of thing needs to have a look.
I'm not convinced this isn't a cover website run by @nariusseldon
WeWork is an office building that can be rented by the month for many different businesses. It is a much cheaper way to rent an office in downtown NYC than many other options. There is nothing to that. Wework is global.
That they don't have an address and their data is locked behind a large paywall. This doesn't seem sketchy to you?
NO. Do you think the moon landings were fake?
Didn't realize I was being unreasonable by looking for a stable address for their business or asking for sources on the information they're sharing.
Not unreasonable, they just are very well known and have been for a long time now. They partner with the biggest publishers in the world. Like Microsoft, Google, Blizzard, Nintendo. They are very well known already. Just perhaps not to you.
Well known doesn't mean they're good at what they do. Again, what are their sources? I imagine most people on this forum could make charts and graphs, just like them, by rounding up a bunch of data readily available on Google. What makes their data more accurate than random forum user 236?
As was already said. They work WITH publishers for their data.
And I'm suppose to just take your, or their, word for it? Saying you work with publishers is far too vague. It could mean they sent out an e-mail asking for their invoices, one time.
Ok, so it's just assumptions based on their About page. Your statement made it sound like you were basing it off the actual data, and from what I've seen the actual data is accurate and sound.
I guess you can call it assumptions.
I mean, Superdata may actually have data on 10,000 games and are lying to us about only having data on 500 games. I suppose thats possible......
And again, I re-iterate that I believe the data is accurate and sound. I've never claimed otherwise. I'm simply saying the data is incomplete, thus making analysis of the market as a whole inaccurate.
An analogy:
Lets say Superdata collected information on what fizzy drinks people like. They collect data on the following:
Fanta Orange
Fanta Ice
Pepsi Max
Pepsi
Diet Pepsi
Lilt
Orange Juice
Having collected this data, they release a report stating the top 5 consumed fizzy drinks, with Pepsi Max at the top and orange juice second.
Now, the data they collected is still accurate and worth buying, but their analysis is completely worthless. It is worthless firstly because they neglected to collect data on Coke, Dr Pepper, Iron Bru, Tango etc and secondly because they included a drink that wasn't fizzy.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr80 Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr5X Shaman
Comments
"A game is fun if it is learnable but not trivial" -- Togelius & Schmidhuber
A lot of small tech companies work at those types of places. In the case of superdata, they use a webpage for you to contact them but most likely have an address for vendors (though quite a bit is now done electronically) or even a p.o. box.
There is a similar company down the street from me that allows small companies to be in the city but not have to deal with the overhead of renting large amounts of commercial real estate. They also don't have to employ reception people and don't need to purchase and maintain server equipment (necessarily - some setups are different).
heck, we rent 5 cubicles to a british company because they don't want to deal with the hassle of maintaining "a space".
Welcome to the modern era!
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
But, the switch to F2P has definitely been a financial success, so good news for Bioware and EA I guess. Still feel that, for players, the switch made things worse in terms of gameplay and quality, but I guess a bad game that is still running is better than no game at all.
As to the SuperData report, just the usual complaints:
- Classifications - completely fucked. You would never buy a superdata report to read their analysis because their analysis is wrong. For example, this report tells you that F2P MMOs are extremely profitable but they've reached that conclusion by including non-MMOs. So, these graphics that we get shown are completely meaningless.
- Lack of data - SuperData collect as much data as possible but it is by no means complete. They have access to some information publicly (such as investors reports), some data they probably buy themselves (like retail reports from shops) and some they get direct from devs/publishers. But, they are missing an awful lot of data regarding MMOs. Given digital distribution plus ingame sales / subscriptions, most MMO data has to be voluntarily supplied by the developers / publishers. Superdata admit that not many of them do, so the list we see is not complete.
If I were a developer, I'd still buy the SD report in order to get the data, but (as I'm sure most companies do) I'd use the raw data provided to analyse the market for myself. I would never rely on the analysis done by SD because its very wrong.For example, of the data points I listed earlier, is there one that you feel the numbers are inaccurate in?
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
https://www.superdataresearch.com/about/
On their about page, they say their database covers ~48million online gamers spending habits. There are an estimated 1.2billion gamers in the world and an estimated 700million online gamers.
This means super data only knows the spending habits of ~7% of the online gaming population. I'm sure that data is accurate (i.e. not falsified), I'm just saying what about the other 93%? What are they doing?
https://www.superdataresearch.com/terminology/
This page describes some of their methodology. It clearly states that they are reliant on receiving data direct from developers and publishers and that their database covers almost 500 games. 500? Thats a drop in the ocean. If it was 500 MMOs, great, that'd be pretty much all of them, but 500 games in total, inclusive of all platforms? There are over 500 free2play games that I can get on my windows phone alone, let alone paid games, android games, iphone games etc before you even touch console and pc. Theres what, 7000+ games on steam?
If you read further down the terminology page, you'll see their definitions are incorrect but are also inconsistent with their reports.
"MMO/MMOG: Massively Multiplayer Online client-based and browser-based games that can involve both persistent and/or instance-based worlds in which users can interact in real-time with one another within a simulated environment. These games often include an independent virtual economy."
They've just described any online multiplayer game and completed ignored the "massively" qualifier.
"Pay-to-play (P2P)/Subscription-based MMO: Massively Multiplayer Online games that earn revenue from subscriptions, expansion packs, and microtransaction-based virtual items and services. A subscription fee or premium account status is required from all users prior to access. Includes revenue contributions from qualifying Hybrid MMOs."
Using their own definition, SW:TOR is not a P2P MMO because you don't require a subscription or premium account to access the game.
So, this is why I say that the data from superdata is useful and worth the money, but any analysis done by superdata themselves is meaningless, both because their terminology / classifications are wrong and also because they don't have enough data. So, a top 5 list is pointless if you only have data on 1% of games. Imagine seeing the top 5 p2p list without WoW on it. Its only there because Blizzard provide the data. It may be that FFXIV actually earns more, but we won't ever know because SD might not have their information.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
NO. Do you think the moon landings were fake?
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
I mean, Superdata may actually have data on 10,000 games and are lying to us about only having data on 500 games. I suppose thats possible......
And again, I re-iterate that I believe the data is accurate and sound. I've never claimed otherwise. I'm simply saying the data is incomplete, thus making analysis of the market as a whole inaccurate.
An analogy:
Lets say Superdata collected information on what fizzy drinks people like. They collect data on the following:
- Fanta Orange
- Fanta Ice
- Pepsi Max
- Pepsi
- Diet Pepsi
- Lilt
- Orange Juice
Having collected this data, they release a report stating the top 5 consumed fizzy drinks, with Pepsi Max at the top and orange juice second.Now, the data they collected is still accurate and worth buying, but their analysis is completely worthless. It is worthless firstly because they neglected to collect data on Coke, Dr Pepper, Iron Bru, Tango etc and secondly because they included a drink that wasn't fizzy.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?