All I did was to compare what this company was doing after looking at what others were doing and if I saw $20,000 or $500 sliding doors at the other gaming companies I would not have thought anything about it. But the other successful companies that produced AAA games didn't have as much stuff as SC does.
There's so much unnecessary here. Honestly, there is no comparison.... If the SC community were to estimate, there is probably $20 billion worth of frills here.... /sarcasm
The difference here is one from sales and the other is from donations. If CIG made their deadlines by at least 6 months then noone would be complaining about the time and effort they used to create their office. Meanwhile blizzard puts out popular products and continues to put them out and people are enjoying and buying them.
It really all boils down to honesty here. I don't believe CIG is being honest and when you are missing deadlines by over 1 year and making it look like they are close to finishing a product that clearly is not close to being finished. Thats just lying to get me to back them. Its like the salesman who shows up at my door and tries to feed me some lie so I will buy their products. They come closer to getting smacked in the face then they do my wallet.
There's so much unnecessary here. Honestly, there is no comparison.... If the SC community were to estimate, there is probably $20 billion worth of frills here.... /sarcasm
How are the Blizzard offices in any way a fair comparison to CIG? Blizzard has launched many successful games over the last decade so they have EARNED their money and the right to spend it how they choose. Using the Blizzard offices to justify the excessive spending from CIG who has not launched a product yet and has been developing their only project using BACKER money is ridiculous.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
For me, nothing except releasing the game. This is my stance on all games though so no unfair bias to SC.
It's quite simple really. Although continuing to make and sell ships and require millions per month in backing at this point is absurd. They've gotten more than enough and just need to focus on delivering the game ASAP.
Ships can be added later, their money needs to go to finishing the game and if that means laying off cash shop related "content" devs and replacing them with actual content devs then so be it.
There's so much unnecessary here. Honestly, there is no comparison.... If the SC community were to estimate, there is probably $20 billion worth of frills here.... /sarcasm
How are the Blizzard offices in any way a fair comparison to CIG? Blizzard has launched many successful games over the last decade so they have EARNED their money and the right to spend it how they choose. Using the Blizzard offices to justify the excessive spending from CIG who has not launched a product yet and has been developing their only project using BACKER money is ridiculous.
Again, I wouldn't expect anyone to understand the ideas behind talent recruiting and retention. Go sell your grey office with bland cubicles and SVGA monitors to a highly talented designer or developer. I'm really sorry, but talent is in high demand and low supply. Shit, I conduct about 60 interviews with potential INTERNS on an annual basis and have you ever been asked what YOUR company has to offer THEM? Even if Blizzard HAS launched many successful games, there MUST be a reason they do all this stuff with their office. Lord knows it isn't a cost saving measure. How do you think they explain it to investors.
I'm sorry, I'm not here to do your Human Resources homework for you. Again, go Google recruiting and retaining top tech talent and come back when you have a clue.
Well instead of attempting to sell more ships, I would need to see a real game and not keep running the concept demos all the time. I would like to see Major Tom actually play the demo and say, damn it I been wrong this is starting to look like a real game.
But the big thing would be they stop ship selling and actually show a real alpha/beta. Hell or show the engine they created with cryengine. They need to show something real and the engine would really take it a step further. Alas all they keep doing is attempting to sell more ships. Which just shows they need more money to make a real cryengine engine that can build Star Citizen.
Oh also the normal things we would see is opening Citizencon with something big and then say you will see it big time on Friday. Yet it seems like they started with same old stuff ship selling.
Now don't jump all over me you asked!
I'll ask why? Why stop selling ships? If I hired a janitor, I'm not going to have him helping my development team make some software, I'm probably going to have him cleaning the shitter. Same deal, if I hire some artists for making ship models, they should be doing that. If I have a sales staff, I expect they will be selling. The development team are the ones making the game. What would you have artists or sales staff or marketing staff do?
This is the whole problem with Roberts and CIG and of course backers. Even though I have doubts people posting here are really backers. Starting to think they are connected with company. Which even makes more of us thinking this is nothing but a scam.
Just my opinion go on and attack like you always do.
No attack. I'm just talking from a perspective of a business owner. If this was my model (which I probably wouldn't do, but I do love the concept of crowdfunding) then would I stop selling stuff?
Here's another perspective, do you think it's irresponsible to stop taking sales when your bank account (through refunds and chargebacks) is volatile? Wouldn't it be irresponsible to put the entirety of the backers $$$ at risk by not accepting additional money to support the development efforts? I think that we can agree that the development is off the rails, but it's whether there is a light at the end of the tunnel, or if it's a train. Right?
So I think there are different perspectives. You see it as a scam because they keep taking in money, I see it as a business, trying to support their operations while in a development phase (a liability to the company at the moment).
A publisher would never fund a game the way SC is being continuously funded. I am 100% positive that CIG is wasting millions of dollars and CR is just going to continue to bloat the game and delay the release until funding starts drying up. then he'll release a half ass game.
I see that certain well known people here dug up the old "look at this expensive coffee machine" reasoning.
After the attempt to "prove" what was shown at Gamescon as fake and in lack of anything else to bash SC with they reverted back to established means.
Keep at it guys. When 2.7 comes, when 3.0 comes with the fully fledged solar system you will still be gasping at those "expensive doors and espresso machines".
Sorry, we can't buy you a hamburger because even though it would make you much more productive, we operate on backers money. Now back to your cardboard box desk!!
There's so much unnecessary here. Honestly, there is no comparison.... If the SC community were to estimate, there is probably $20 billion worth of frills here.... /sarcasm
How are the Blizzard offices in any way a fair comparison to CIG? Blizzard has launched many successful games over the last decade so they have EARNED their money and the right to spend it how they choose. Using the Blizzard offices to justify the excessive spending from CIG who has not launched a product yet and has been developing their only project using BACKER money is ridiculous.
Again, I wouldn't expect anyone to understand the ideas behind talent recruiting and retention. Go sell your grey office with bland cubicles and SVGA monitors to a highly talented designer or developer. I'm really sorry, but talent is in high demand and low supply. Shit, I conduct about 60 interviews with potential INTERNS on an annual basis and have you ever been asked what YOUR company has to offer THEM? Even if Blizzard HAS launched many successful games, there MUST be a reason they do all this stuff with their office. Lord knows it isn't a cost saving measure. How do you think they explain it to investors.
I'm sorry, I'm not here to do your Human Resources homework for you. Again, go Google recruiting and retaining top tech talent and come back when you have a clue.
How long has your company been in business and pulling profit or did it just create a high end building out of the ether with all the frills attached with the money that grew on the trees in the front yard?
I don't think anyone is arguing that you want to attract top talent and keep them with perks and a nice looking office but usually you get a proper income stream first before you start spending it on things other then developing your game.
There's so much unnecessary here. Honestly, there is no comparison.... If the SC community were to estimate, there is probably $20 billion worth of frills here.... /sarcasm
How are the Blizzard offices in any way a fair comparison to CIG? Blizzard has launched many successful games over the last decade so they have EARNED their money and the right to spend it how they choose. Using the Blizzard offices to justify the excessive spending from CIG who has not launched a product yet and has been developing their only project using BACKER money is ridiculous.
Again, I wouldn't expect anyone to understand the ideas behind talent recruiting and retention. Go sell your grey office with bland cubicles and SVGA monitors to a highly talented designer or developer. I'm really sorry, but talent is in high demand and low supply. Shit, I conduct about 60 interviews with potential INTERNS on an annual basis and have you ever been asked what YOUR company has to offer THEM? Even if Blizzard HAS launched many successful games, there MUST be a reason they do all this stuff with their office. Lord knows it isn't a cost saving measure. How do you think they explain it to investors.
I'm sorry, I'm not here to do your Human Resources homework for you. Again, go Google recruiting and retaining top tech talent and come back when you have a clue.
People just can't or won't grasp that when an unestablished company / firm / studio reaches out for talented and highly sought after individuals the debate isn't just about their payment. It is very much also about working environment conditions and numerous other amenities.
A great deal of people working on SC / SQ42 at the moment are top in their respective fields and are accustomed in working places like the one linked above.
When i am well known specialist and a newly formed studio approaches me i will not debate solely about my paycheck. It is a given that said check will be a beefy one. I will demand a working place similar to Blizzard's decked with top tier stuff.
There's so much unnecessary here. Honestly, there is no comparison.... If the SC community were to estimate, there is probably $20 billion worth of frills here.... /sarcasm
How are the Blizzard offices in any way a fair comparison to CIG? Blizzard has launched many successful games over the last decade so they have EARNED their money and the right to spend it how they choose. Using the Blizzard offices to justify the excessive spending from CIG who has not launched a product yet and has been developing their only project using BACKER money is ridiculous.
Again, I wouldn't expect anyone to understand the ideas behind talent recruiting and retention. Go sell your grey office with bland cubicles and SVGA monitors to a highly talented designer or developer. I'm really sorry, but talent is in high demand and low supply. Shit, I conduct about 60 interviews with potential INTERNS on an annual basis and have you ever been asked what YOUR company has to offer THEM? Even if Blizzard HAS launched many successful games, there MUST be a reason they do all this stuff with their office. Lord knows it isn't a cost saving measure. How do you think they explain it to investors.
I'm sorry, I'm not here to do your Human Resources homework for you. Again, go Google recruiting and retaining top tech talent and come back when you have a clue.
I don't think anyone is arguing that you want to attract top talent and keep them with perks and a nice looking office but usually you get a proper income stream first before you start spending it on things other then developing your game.
I presume that your game will somehow miraculously start developing on it's own. Without anyone working on it.
There's so much unnecessary here. Honestly, there is no comparison.... If the SC community were to estimate, there is probably $20 billion worth of frills here.... /sarcasm
How are the Blizzard offices in any way a fair comparison to CIG? Blizzard has launched many successful games over the last decade so they have EARNED their money and the right to spend it how they choose. Using the Blizzard offices to justify the excessive spending from CIG who has not launched a product yet and has been developing their only project using BACKER money is ridiculous.
Again, I wouldn't expect anyone to understand the ideas behind talent recruiting and retention. Go sell your grey office with bland cubicles and SVGA monitors to a highly talented designer or developer. I'm really sorry, but talent is in high demand and low supply. Shit, I conduct about 60 interviews with potential INTERNS on an annual basis and have you ever been asked what YOUR company has to offer THEM? Even if Blizzard HAS launched many successful games, there MUST be a reason they do all this stuff with their office. Lord knows it isn't a cost saving measure. How do you think they explain it to investors.
I'm sorry, I'm not here to do your Human Resources homework for you. Again, go Google recruiting and retaining top tech talent and come back when you have a clue.
How long has your company been in business and pulling profit or did it just create a high end building out of the ether with all the frills attached with the money that grew on the trees in the front yard?
I don't think anyone is arguing that you want to attract top talent and keep them with perks and a nice looking office but usually you get a proper income stream first before you start spending it on things other then developing your game.
I agree! However, this isn't a traditionally-funded company, either. I agree that people aren't backing them to have them squander their money. The problem is that there are few who are able to objectively see, or attempt to see, why they might use their funds the way they do. Again, I'm not saying that it's a bad thing. I don't expect that every person should understand the ins and outs of HR, but I'm saying that it is an illustration of how spending can be easily misinterpreted.
I don't know. All I know is there was plenty of technical issues which were "impossible" which have been solved in less than a year, so I'd say that's not too bad. Should be clear sailing from here!!! *toot toot* "All aboard the hype train!!" lol
There's so much unnecessary here. Honestly, there is no comparison.... If the SC community were to estimate, there is probably $20 billion worth of frills here.... /sarcasm
How are the Blizzard offices in any way a fair comparison to CIG? Blizzard has launched many successful games over the last decade so they have EARNED their money and the right to spend it how they choose. Using the Blizzard offices to justify the excessive spending from CIG who has not launched a product yet and has been developing their only project using BACKER money is ridiculous.
Again, I wouldn't expect anyone to understand the ideas behind talent recruiting and retention. Go sell your grey office with bland cubicles and SVGA monitors to a highly talented designer or developer. I'm really sorry, but talent is in high demand and low supply. Shit, I conduct about 60 interviews with potential INTERNS on an annual basis and have you ever been asked what YOUR company has to offer THEM? Even if Blizzard HAS launched many successful games, there MUST be a reason they do all this stuff with their office. Lord knows it isn't a cost saving measure. How do you think they explain it to investors.
I'm sorry, I'm not here to do your Human Resources homework for you. Again, go Google recruiting and retaining top tech talent and come back when you have a clue.
I don't think anyone is arguing that you want to attract top talent and keep them with perks and a nice looking office but usually you get a proper income stream first before you start spending it on things other then developing your game.
I presume that your game will somehow miraculously start developing on it's own. Without anyone working on it.
Cool.
Actually it would because I wouldn't be going after the cream of the crop because my budget wouldn't allow for it. Does that mean my game will be garbage because I cant hire the tops of their fields? Clearly having the top end isn't working for CIG since the game is no where near release.
There's so much unnecessary here. Honestly, there is no comparison.... If the SC community were to estimate, there is probably $20 billion worth of frills here.... /sarcasm
How are the Blizzard offices in any way a fair comparison to CIG? Blizzard has launched many successful games over the last decade so they have EARNED their money and the right to spend it how they choose. Using the Blizzard offices to justify the excessive spending from CIG who has not launched a product yet and has been developing their only project using BACKER money is ridiculous.
Again, I wouldn't expect anyone to understand the ideas behind talent recruiting and retention. Go sell your grey office with bland cubicles and SVGA monitors to a highly talented designer or developer. I'm really sorry, but talent is in high demand and low supply. Shit, I conduct about 60 interviews with potential INTERNS on an annual basis and have you ever been asked what YOUR company has to offer THEM? Even if Blizzard HAS launched many successful games, there MUST be a reason they do all this stuff with their office. Lord knows it isn't a cost saving measure. How do you think they explain it to investors.
I'm sorry, I'm not here to do your Human Resources homework for you. Again, go Google recruiting and retaining top tech talent and come back when you have a clue.
How long has your company been in business and pulling profit or did it just create a high end building out of the ether with all the frills attached with the money that grew on the trees in the front yard?
I don't think anyone is arguing that you want to attract top talent and keep them with perks and a nice looking office but usually you get a proper income stream first before you start spending it on things other then developing your game.
I agree! However, this isn't a traditionally-funded company, either. I agree that people aren't backing them to have them squander their money. The problem is that there are few who are able to objectively see, or attempt to see, why they might use their funds the way they do. Again, I'm not saying that it's a bad thing. I don't expect that every person should understand the ins and outs of HR, but I'm saying that it is an illustration of how spending can be easily misinterpreted.
I'll agree with you there about people not understanding and you are right this isn’t a
traditionally funded company which means they should be even more careful with
how they are perceived spending money that to some they haven’t earned yet.
To circle back to the $20,000 door for a bit I want to ask.
what do we think the motovation was to buy a $20,000? was it to tick off investors? was it to create a kickback for the contractor? was it completely random purchase that nobody had motovation to do but happened anyway? does CR just like expensive doors? was was the reason?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I see that certain well known people here dug up the old "look at this expensive coffee machine" reasoning.
After the attempt to "prove" what was shown at Gamescon as fake and in lack of anything else to bash SC with they reverted back to established means.
Keep at it guys. When 2.7 comes, when 3.0 comes with the fully fledged solar system you will still be gasping at those "expensive doors and espresso machines".
Actually someone who was defending CIG is the one who brings up this stuff. Its like we use logical stuff and you throw up the most rediculous accusation and make a comparison.
I see that certain well known people here dug up the old "look at this expensive coffee machine" reasoning.
After the attempt to "prove" what was shown at Gamescon as fake and in lack of anything else to bash SC with they reverted back to established means.
Keep at it guys. When 2.7 comes, when 3.0 comes with the fully fledged solar system you will still be gasping at those "expensive doors and espresso machines".
no one had to prove anything about the gamescon stuff the video does it for them.
I see that certain well known people here dug up the old "look at this expensive coffee machine" reasoning.
After the attempt to "prove" what was shown at Gamescon as fake and in lack of anything else to bash SC with they reverted back to established means.
Keep at it guys. When 2.7 comes, when 3.0 comes with the fully fledged solar system you will still be gasping at those "expensive doors and espresso machines".
no one had to prove anything about the gamescon stuff the video does it for them.
You tried very hard indeed to convince the rest of the world that what was shown in Gamescom was fake and everyone except you, ofc, was babooned by CIG.
I wonder why are you still here and have not exposed those crooks to the media yet.
All I will say is Nyx, must be a year now since that was 'coming soon'
“Nevertheless, the human brain, which survives by hoping from one second to another, will always endeavor to put off the moment of truth. Moist” ― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
You tried very hard indeed to convince the rest of the world that what was shown in Gamescom was fake and everyone except you, ofc, was babooned by CIG.
I wonder why are you still here and have not exposed those crooks to the media yet.
Just goes to prove another thing I have said on here multiple times, its easier to fool peole than it is to convince them they have been fooled.
That video and the inconsistencies are more than compelling enough for people to ask them direct questions about it.
Why so many perspective changes? Why so many screen changes? Both very valid when they used PiP when it suited them. Why are the two shots from the hanger door so different? Why did the avatar move before the controller touched anything? Why is the dragonfly nonexistent (or if you want to believe its there so small you cant make it out) and why does it not become more visible and appear to get closer to the freelancer? Why does it and the starfarer (which was totally unrecognizable before the viewpoint switch) become so clear and obvious after the switch? You might expect a minimal quality change but not something as drastic as that. How people can dismiss that is mind boggling. Why didnt you have another person outside looking at it from a third person view from within the game and show the whole sequence from start to finish? Why does it look like the Dragonfly is halfway in the hanger on its PiP screen and it hasnt even reached the edge of the hanger on the main screen? If its lag why is there so much lag on a state of the art system on its on LAN? Why didint you show the avatar view of the dragonfly reappearing after the bug you claimed never happened before? Why does the 'space' shot from the exact same position as the other shot that looked 'bad' look so clear when youre closing the hanger at the end of the mission?
Those are just a few of the questions people should ask. And watching that video and seeing what you can see theyre certainly not outrageous.
Then after all that I would ask, May I personally do what you showed in that video right now?
To circle back to the $20,000 door for a bit I want to ask.
what do we think the motovation was to buy a $20,000? was it to tick off investors? was it to create a kickback for the contractor? was it completely random purchase that nobody had motovation to do but happened anyway? does CR just like expensive doors? was was the reason?
How do you know they paid $20000 for the door, that was info provided by someone who is a known liar.
Comments
It really all boils down to honesty here. I don't believe CIG is being honest and when you are missing deadlines by over 1 year and making it look like they are close to finishing a product that clearly is not close to being finished. Thats just lying to get me to back them. Its like the salesman who shows up at my door and tries to feed me some lie so I will buy their products. They come closer to getting smacked in the face then they do my wallet.
Ships can be added later, their money needs to go to finishing the game and if that means laying off cash shop related "content" devs and replacing them with actual content devs then so be it.
Again, I wouldn't expect anyone to understand the ideas behind talent recruiting and retention. Go sell your grey office with bland cubicles and SVGA monitors to a highly talented designer or developer. I'm really sorry, but talent is in high demand and low supply. Shit, I conduct about 60 interviews with potential INTERNS on an annual basis and have you ever been asked what YOUR company has to offer THEM? Even if Blizzard HAS launched many successful games, there MUST be a reason they do all this stuff with their office. Lord knows it isn't a cost saving measure. How do you think they explain it to investors.
I'm sorry, I'm not here to do your Human Resources homework for you. Again, go Google recruiting and retaining top tech talent and come back when you have a clue.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
After the attempt to "prove" what was shown at Gamescon as fake and in lack of anything else to bash SC with they reverted back to established means.
Keep at it guys. When 2.7 comes, when 3.0 comes with the fully fledged solar system you will still be gasping at those "expensive doors and espresso machines".
Sorry, we can't buy you a hamburger because even though it would make you much more productive, we operate on backers money. Now back to your cardboard box desk!!
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
How long has your company been in business and pulling profit or did it just create a high end building out of the ether with all the frills attached with the money that grew on the trees in the front yard?
I don't think anyone is arguing that you want to attract top talent and keep them with perks and a nice looking office but usually you get a proper income stream first before you start spending it on things other then developing your game.
A great deal of people working on SC / SQ42 at the moment are top in their respective fields and are accustomed in working places like the one linked above.
When i am well known specialist and a newly formed studio approaches me i will not debate solely about my paycheck. It is a given that said check will be a beefy one. I will demand a working place similar to Blizzard's decked with top tier stuff.
Cool.
I agree! However, this isn't a traditionally-funded company, either. I agree that people aren't backing them to have them squander their money. The problem is that there are few who are able to objectively see, or attempt to see, why they might use their funds the way they do. Again, I'm not saying that it's a bad thing. I don't expect that every person should understand the ins and outs of HR, but I'm saying that it is an illustration of how spending can be easily misinterpreted.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
I don't know. All I know is there was plenty of technical issues which were "impossible" which have been solved in less than a year, so I'd say that's not too bad. Should be clear sailing from here!!! *toot toot* "All aboard the hype train!!" lol
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
Actually it would because I wouldn't be going after the cream of the crop because my budget wouldn't allow for it. Does that mean my game will be garbage because I cant hire the tops of their fields? Clearly having the top end isn't working for CIG since the game is no where near release.
I'll agree with you there about people not understanding and you are right this isn’t a traditionally funded company which means they should be even more careful with how they are perceived spending money that to some they haven’t earned yet.
what do we think the motovation was to buy a $20,000?
was it to tick off investors?
was it to create a kickback for the contractor?
was it completely random purchase that nobody had motovation to do but happened anyway?
does CR just like expensive doors?
was was the reason?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I wonder why are you still here and have not exposed those crooks to the media yet.
― Terry Pratchett, Making Money
That video and the inconsistencies are more than compelling enough for people to ask them direct questions about it.
Why so many perspective changes? Why so many screen changes? Both very valid when they used PiP when it suited them. Why are the two shots from the hanger door so different? Why did the avatar move before the controller touched anything? Why is the dragonfly nonexistent (or if you want to believe its there so small you cant make it out) and why does it not become more visible and appear to get closer to the freelancer? Why does it and the starfarer (which was totally unrecognizable before the viewpoint switch) become so clear and obvious after the switch? You might expect a minimal quality change but not something as drastic as that. How people can dismiss that is mind boggling. Why didnt you have another person outside looking at it from a third person view from within the game and show the whole sequence from start to finish? Why does it look like the Dragonfly is halfway in the hanger on its PiP screen and it hasnt even reached the edge of the hanger on the main screen? If its lag why is there so much lag on a state of the art system on its on LAN? Why didint you show the avatar view of the dragonfly reappearing after the bug you claimed never happened before? Why does the 'space' shot from the exact same position as the other shot that looked 'bad' look so clear when youre closing the hanger at the end of the mission?
Those are just a few of the questions people should ask. And watching that video and seeing what you can see theyre certainly not outrageous.
Then after all that I would ask, May I personally do what you showed in that video right now?
The CIG equivalent is a campaign to raise money to fix the church roof and then, I dunno, buying some crazy stupid spaceman doors instead.