If its really B2P, that's honestly fine, depending on the price that is. Regardless of the debates surrounding BDO, everyone who played can't argue that it wasn't worth the 30$ down.
As someone who is unhappy with how so many F2P and B2P games become outright cash grabs, i have to agree, i'm now a bit more interested in the game than i was before. Will be keeping an eye on the progress of this game.
At this point it's probably really important to point out that they will probably start with a sub and move to f2p or even b2p with cash shop.
Nope they are going to make it b2p, if you know, anything about snailGame then a sub is not the route they will go with.
Confirmed B2p, it's there in black and white. Also you have to remember that both Dark&Light and, Age Of Wushu 2 are coming out on consoles so that's why they have chosen the B2p model.
As someone who is unhappy with how so many F2P and B2P games become outright cash grabs, i have to agree, i'm now a bit more interested in the game than i was before. Will be keeping an eye on the progress of this game.
At this point it's probably really important to point out that they will probably start with a sub and move to f2p or even b2p with cash shop.
If they have a cash shop more people will leave than having a sub only game. You cannot have a Cash Shop with a Sandbox MMO. ArcheAge did it and turned the game into a Wallet war with crafting, then they added gear with stats into the cash shop turning the game into total Wallet War. BDO is now a wallet war because they sell gear on the cash shop.
Cash shops are the problem with MMOS. Its not as bad in a game like ESO or SWTOR because these are themepark MMOs and they focus everything around end game. Sandboxes focus on community and the journey not the end goal. This is what people have forgotten by having countless WOW Clones. Sandboxes are not games on rails, they are open ended games like Minecraft is. Having a Cash shop only invites wallet wars which people are sick and tired of.
Now we can talk about not having a $15 a month sub. Lets start out with a 10.99 sub. Or have a year sub where you can spend $99.90 for unlimited access for 365 days. Lets also talk about a lower box cost like $40 or $50 and not $70 for the base game and $120 for the CE version. Lets also talk about DLC/Downloadable Xpax for $29.99 every year or 2 that will expand the size of the world.
If you did a year sub @ $99.90 and a box cost @ $50.00 you are talking for the entire game and unlimited access $149.90 for the whole year. If you lived in Ohio with Minimum wage at $8.10 that is 19 Hours of work you get a full years sub and game. That is very dam easy to get. Then you are not being nicheled and dimed to death for things like bag space, and mounts, and gear looks, and crafting mats, and endless shit and time the developers spend on the cash shop. At $150 a year you can demand world expansions every year, housing in the world even if its limited and slowly expands, you can want more and newer mobs, bosses, public dungeons to go and have fun with. YOU WILL NOT NEED TO SPEND $25 @ A POP FOR THIS STUFF. I love the ESO Model but dam I have to either sub or Pay $25 for 2 more dungeons? That is because Zenimax needs to make money, BUT they know they can make more money off of mind games in the cash shop vs a sub.
I think DnL will be a good MMO if it makes a Quality MMO, pushes people to socialize and work together and keeps the P2P setup with a decently priced sub. It's possible they could be worth a $15 a month sub but starting at $15 a month might be high. Starting at $12 per month then moving it down to $9.99 a month for a year sub would be a best idea.
I think DnL will be a good MMO if it makes a Quality MMO, pushes people to socialize and work together and keeps the P2P setup with a decently priced sub.
'Keeps the P2P' is an odd statement when the whole point is that this was a misunderstanding in that one communication and that a B2P payment system is the one they intend to use.
You do not have to have a cash shop in a B2P title, they could rely on the DLC they have mentioned, though I agree a cash shop of some sort is likely. However, there are ways to implement this that could be successful. We will simply have to wait and see for more details.
Above lol, are you actually reading what they have said, B2p because it's coming out on consoles. PSN and XBOX player will not pay a sub and have to pay PSN or XBOXL each month. This is one reason they have chosen the B2P payment structure. Perhaps you we're not aware that the game was coming out on consoles.
It's also a PVE and PVP game with PVE and PVP servers.
As someone who is unhappy with how so many F2P and B2P games become outright cash grabs, i have to agree, i'm now a bit more interested in the game than i was before. Will be keeping an eye on the progress of this game.
At this point it's probably really important to point out that they will probably start with a sub and move to f2p or even b2p with cash shop.
If they have a cash shop more people will leave than having a sub only game. You cannot have a Cash Shop with a Sandbox MMO. ArcheAge did it and turned the game into a Wallet war with crafting, then they added gear with stats into the cash shop turning the game into total Wallet War. BDO is now a wallet war because they sell gear on the cash shop.
People keep bringing up Archeage as an example but I wouldn't be surprised that given the amount of reported whales who spent thousands on that game, Archeage has made more fat piles of cash whale blubber money than a sub game with like, 10 times as many players paying $15 a month would have made in the same amount of time
And that's probably what DMKano (who said he has friends in Trion even before he started using them as alleged sources, so he's probably telling the truth in this case given that it explains a lot of why he defends the game so heavily) meant when he said going P2P would be a disaster. P2P profits, compared to F2P profits, are absolutely terrible unless you can pull in WoW or maybe FFXIV numbers, which this game almost positively won't.
If they launched with p2p they wouldn't even gave 10k players - it would be a total disaster.
Where do you get those numbers? I mean seriously here, what is the line of thinking that predicts less than 10k players if the game goes with a sub model? Is it based off anything at all?
Why specifically the number 10,000?
Anyway, I'll peer into my own crystal ball here and declare that if they think they can go B2P with a game-altering cash shop like BDO did, it will be a total disaster.
The only way it could possibly work is if people get rock-solid assurances that the cash shop will be cosmetic only and there will be no p2w.
As someone who is unhappy with how so many F2P and B2P games become outright cash grabs, i have to agree, i'm now a bit more interested in the game than i was before. Will be keeping an eye on the progress of this game.
At this point it's probably really important to point out that they will probably start with a sub and move to f2p or even b2p with cash shop.
If they have a cash shop more people will leave than having a sub only game. You cannot have a Cash Shop with a Sandbox MMO.
Which is why "it's important to point out that they will probably start with a sub and move to f2p or even b2p with cash shop."
Because I can hear the wailing and the gnashing of teeth already. Especially when players say "you cannot have a cash shop with a Sandbox mmo".
That already sets players up to be angry when the time comes.
They will have a cash shop and change their business model. So players should either expect it or expect to "not play" and save themselves some grief and running to forums to complain. Especially to save themselves the "They lied" bit.
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By that logic f2p is p2p but you don't have to pay at all.
Or cash shops are variable P2P where you can pay as much as you want?
Please....
B2P, F2P, let's just be clear.... if it's not sub and it's a game that they plan on supporting beyond a 6 month period, there will be cash shop items. Please align your expectations accordingly
We should also talk about what things can Snail add to DnL that will allow players not to have to grind for hours endlessly which drives the average person to spend money to replace the grind.
#1 Have a companion system like SWTOR or having gathering structures like SWG did. This reduced the time needed grinding on just gathering mats. Now you did have to grind the skill up to a certain point, you should be able to Macro this while you are around the house just not countless hours leaving your character setup with a macro do do the work
#2 Allow macros to do your crafting grind but make it requires to refresh every hour by you going to your keyboard. (Now you can clean your house and level crafting without endless hours grinding while sitting at your chair)
#3 Gold Grind, Have daily or weekly group quest that give a ton of gold that requires teamwork and not just hack n slash tactics to complete. For example Phase an area where 5 or more people help to save a village under attack by Trolls. The more people there are the more CC will be needed plus tanks and healers. Make it so it cannot be just a DPS fest. No Automate group finders for anything but yes a Group Finder Browser is good. Also if its a full Guild group increase the gold given by 15%.
#4 Gear Grind - This will be non-existent if your primary gear is used by everyone is crafted gear much like UO and SWG. Have it so that there is a main Auction House, plus allow players to build houses that can have NPC vendors sell their wares. Also allow quick travel to someones house so you can buy gear off their vendor. (Think the Ruin system like UO Had) Yes some really good gear should drop from Mobs like they did in UO BUT it should not be the primary gear everyone goes for because the gear drops are low plus crafter made gear can range better in abilities for different builds vs BiS gear from Raid drops.
#5 focus on the virtual world and what is going on and not on the treadmill game like other MMOs. By having a Virtual world an event should not be only a few weeks, it can be going over several months add to that your path in the virtual world is not rails. So you are focused on the Journey not rushing to end game to raid. Add to that when you are capped on your skills (Which should also level slowly offline) you are still on a journey to do more in the world, maybe you can jump on a ship like ArcheAge and battle other people, OR you help take down a player run city. You carve out your journey in this world its not a themepark
As someone who is unhappy with how so many F2P and B2P games become outright cash grabs, i have to agree, i'm now a bit more interested in the game than i was before. Will be keeping an eye on the progress of this game.
At this point it's probably really important to point out that they will probably start with a sub and move to f2p or even b2p with cash shop.
Nope they are going to make it b2p, if you know, anything about snailGame then a sub is not the route they will go with.
Confirmed B2p, it's there in black and white. Also you have to remember that both Dark&Light and, Age Of Wushu 2 are coming out on consoles so that's why they have chosen the B2p model.
Whatever they do it will have a cash shop. When I see pay to play I automatically assume sub but "sure" b2p.
But with cash shop.
It's important for players to stop this cycle of expecting things will be as they "think" they will be.
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So everyone who said the same exact things about Black Desert like 100 days ago where "buy to play is better than free to play' How are you feeling now?
I dont know how anyone can defend any pay structure any developer gives out. Because theyre all just one form of a cash grab in a different skin.
B2P means they get a guaranteed amount before they eventually go to a cash shop. Sub games (might never be another one) charge you the box price AND a sub fee for as long as they want to pretend it matters before they too go to some sort of cash shop. Free to play are really the most honest guys out there. The dont try and trick you into thinking theyre benevolent or care they just say heres the game play it and here is what you can do with your money.
Newsflash,(real) MMOs are dead, whether people want to believe that or not is their own prerogative. Theyre dead because they cost way too much to make and take way too long to get out. So long that if they released them like they used to (with no early access or pre release) the tech and graphics would be so outdated no one would want to play them anyway. Or the hype that was generated when they announced they were making it is long dead before anything release ready product saw the light of day. So these 'indy' companies are doing what they do. Raising money selling stuff and trying to make a living and hoping to catch lightening ina bottle and find something they can market enough to actually maybe finish someday.
But make no mistake about it its still about the money. The 'easier' it has gotten to make games the more games you see being developed. Thats not a coincidence. So it is becoming cheaper, not cheap enough that 'anyone' can do it but cheap enough that you can makes something that looks awesome for little money and then hope the hype train takes off and you can cash in. Then you spend a little bit more of that money to make a few 'core' demo videos and hope the hype train speeds up, then you they and cash in. Thats when you see early access monikers and Steam Greenlight descriptions. And youre 'selling' a 'product'.
Its the blueprint most of these guys who dont have nearly enough money to make anything have followed for the past 3 years. One or two have worked, most havent.
But worrying about pay models at this point is useless because who knows when the game will be retail release ready anyway.
As someone who is unhappy with how so many F2P and B2P games become outright cash grabs, i have to agree, i'm now a bit more interested in the game than i was before. Will be keeping an eye on the progress of this game.
At this point it's probably really important to point out that they will probably start with a sub and move to f2p or even b2p with cash shop.
If they have a cash shop more people will leave than having a sub only game. You cannot have a Cash Shop with a Sandbox MMO. ArcheAge did it and turned the game into a Wallet war with crafting, then they added gear with stats into the cash shop turning the game into total Wallet War. BDO is now a wallet war because they sell gear on the cash shop.
People keep bringing up Archeage as an example but I wouldn't be surprised that given the amount of reported whales who spent thousands on that game, Archeage has made more fat piles of cash whale blubber money than a sub game with like, 10 times as many players paying $15 a month would have made in the same amount of time
And that's probably what DMKano (who said he has friends in Trion even before he started using them as alleged sources, so he's probably telling the truth in this case given that it explains a lot of why he defends the game so heavily) meant when he said going P2P would be a disaster. P2P profits, compared to F2P profits, are absolutely terrible unless you can pull in WoW or maybe FFXIV numbers, which this game almost positively won't.
Who say this game cannot get between 500K and 1 Million players? WHO? You do not know that until the game launches and people play it.
And no F2P/B2P only makes more than Subs for a very short time unless you do the ArchAge and BDO pay to win where to keep up with crafting you need to spend Thousands of Dollars a month to be the best on the server. Its not skill that makes you the best but your fucking WALLET. In BDO the best PVPers are people who buy the gear not spend time getting it. Its not a SKILL its HOW FAT IS YOUR WALLET.
YES P2W makes more money in the short term until all the average people leave who cannot play the wallet war then your game is dead outside the people spending money just to spend money.
If Snail games spents in the $50 Million range and gets $150 from 500K people per year they will make $75 Million. Thats enough to operate on and make a profit on. As long as the Company is not run by greedy basters and investors/stockholders DnL can survive very easily without being B2P and having a cash shop which they will focus more than half their development time on.
The reason why SWTOR, ESO WILDSTAR all went F2P/B2P is because they spend $250 Million Plus. Even at 1 Million subs at $150 to $175 a year in subs alone you would only make back HALF of your initial investment in 1 year. When you start spending upwards of $100 Million on development you HAVE to have a cash shop to make your initial investment back.
As someone who is unhappy with how so many F2P and B2P and subscription games become outright cash grabs, i have to agree, i'm now a bit more interested in the game than i was before. Will be keeping an eye on the progress of this game.
Fixed!
As i am subbed to both Eve Online and FFXIV:ARR i think i'd have noticed if the games had become a cash grab, one of the reasons why i am less interested now in B2P games, and disinterested in F2P games at all, is because they have repeatedly proven to be all about the $$, and not about their customers, the players.
If its really B2P, that's honestly fine, depending on the price that is. Regardless of the debates surrounding BDO, everyone who played can't argue that it wasn't worth the 30$ down.
BDO was definitely worth $30, and i didn't care that the cash shop had a high price on its cosmetic items, if that meant that the game didn't allow RMT and P2W, it wasn't until they changed their stance on that, that it went back on those promises, well its a long argument probably still ongoing in other threads, to me the game is history its a dead game, but i still didn't ask for a refund because up the point it 'died' it was an amazingly good game.
EVE works as a P2P game because CCP is content with a smallish niche audience. Which, IMO, is the correct mindset for MMO developers. DAoC is also still puttering along with a sub and a small niche audience and it's two year's older than EVE.
And Lineage is P2P as well with 3 million subscribers. Anyways, there are more P2P then just Wow and FFXIV, some more successful then others. And using different payment models then F2P/Freemium can be an advantage when almost all MMOs use the same model it makes your game stand out.
Of course, more then a few P2P games fail and change model, for some reason do games not good enough for a sub tend to do fine as F2P, I guess the F2P audience have less expectations and more patience with average to bad games.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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As someone who is unhappy with how so many F2P and B2P games become outright cash grabs, i have to agree, i'm now a bit more interested in the game than i was before. Will be keeping an eye on the progress of this game.
At this point it's probably really important to point out that they will probably start with a sub and move to f2p or even b2p with cash shop.
Nope they are going to make it b2p, if you know, anything about snailGame then a sub is not the route they will go with.
Confirmed B2p, it's there in black and white. Also you have to remember that both Dark&Light and, Age Of Wushu 2 are coming out on consoles so that's why they have chosen the B2p model.
Whatever they do it will have a cash shop. When I see pay to play I automatically assume sub but "sure" b2p.
But with cash shop.
It's important for players to stop this cycle of expecting things will be as they "think" they will be.
........
Says the person who who is saying they will have a cash shop when there has been no mention of a cash shop. I'm going on facts that have been confirmed by the devs that it will be a b2p model, you on the other hand are assuming it will have a cash shop lol.
EVE works as a P2P game because CCP is content with a smallish niche audience. Which, IMO, is the correct mindset for MMO developers. DAoC is also still puttering along with a sub and a small niche audience and it's two year's older than EVE.
And Lineage is P2P as well with 3 million subscribers. Anyways, there are more P2P then just Wow and FFXIV, some more successful then others. And using different payment models then F2P/Freemium can be an advantage when almost all MMOs use the same model it makes your game stand out.
Of course, more then a few P2P games fail and change model, for some reason do games not good enough for a sub tend to do fine as F2P, I guess the F2P audience have less expectations and more patience with average to bad games.
Which was kind of my point. If a game properly serves it's target niche, such as L1, WOW, FFXIV, EVE and some others, it appears they can convince them to pay a monthly sub.
I don't believe a quality MMORPG needs to be driven by a f2P payment model, only subpar ones do and benefit from it.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
EVE works as a P2P game because CCP is content with a smallish niche audience. Which, IMO, is the correct mindset for MMO developers. DAoC is also still puttering along with a sub and a small niche audience and it's two year's older than EVE.
And Lineage is P2P as well with 3 million subscribers. Anyways, there are more P2P then just Wow and FFXIV, some more successful then others. And using different payment models then F2P/Freemium can be an advantage when almost all MMOs use the same model it makes your game stand out.
Of course, more then a few P2P games fail and change model, for some reason do games not good enough for a sub tend to do fine as F2P, I guess the F2P audience have less expectations and more patience with average to bad games.
Which was kind of my point. If a game properly serves it's target niche, such as L1, WOW, FFXIV, EVE and some others, it appears they can convince them to pay a monthly sub.
I don't believe a quality MMORPG needs to be driven by a f2P payment model, only subpar ones do and benefit from it.
Agreed.
I've always maintained that "if the game is good enough, players will sub".
However, it's much more likely that a niche game will be found "good enough" by its (relatively small) fanbase than a mass-market title being "good enough" to persuade millions of diverse players to pay a sub. That's why the list of mass-market sub games is so short...
EVE works as a P2P game because CCP is content with a smallish niche audience. Which, IMO, is the correct mindset for MMO developers. DAoC is also still puttering along with a sub and a small niche audience and it's two year's older than EVE.
And Lineage is P2P as well with 3 million subscribers. Anyways, there are more P2P then just Wow and FFXIV, some more successful then others. And using different payment models then F2P/Freemium can be an advantage when almost all MMOs use the same model it makes your game stand out.
Of course, more then a few P2P games fail and change model, for some reason do games not good enough for a sub tend to do fine as F2P, I guess the F2P audience have less expectations and more patience with average to bad games.
Which was kind of my point. If a game properly serves it's target niche, such as L1, WOW, FFXIV, EVE and some others, it appears they can convince them to pay a monthly sub.
I don't believe a quality MMORPG needs to be driven by a f2P payment model, only subpar ones do and benefit from it.
Agreed.
I've always maintained that "if the game is good enough, players will sub".
However, it's much more likely that a niche game will be found "good enough" by its (relatively small) fanbase than a mass-market title being "good enough" to persuade millions of diverse players to pay a sub. That's why the list of mass-market sub games is so short...
You can add to that, many MMOs end up spending over $100 Million on development cost. SWTOR for example cost $250+ Million to make. A sub only wouldnt pay off the initial investment unless they had 2+ Million subs.
The problem is too much money is being spent on an MMO That players burn through in a matter of weeks.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
As someone who is unhappy with how so many F2P and B2P games become outright cash grabs, i have to agree, i'm now a bit more interested in the game than i was before. Will be keeping an eye on the progress of this game.
At this point it's probably really important to point out that they will probably start with a sub and move to f2p or even b2p with cash shop.
Nope they are going to make it b2p, if you know, anything about snailGame then a sub is not the route they will go with.
Confirmed B2p, it's there in black and white. Also you have to remember that both Dark&Light and, Age Of Wushu 2 are coming out on consoles so that's why they have chosen the B2p model.
Whatever they do it will have a cash shop. When I see pay to play I automatically assume sub but "sure" b2p.
But with cash shop.
It's important for players to stop this cycle of expecting things will be as they "think" they will be.
........
Says the person who who is saying they will have a cash shop when there has been no mention of a cash shop. I'm going on facts that have been confirmed by the devs that it will be a b2p model, you on the other hand are assuming it will have a cash shop lol.
Your last sentence applies to yourself lmao.
Delusional.
Ok, we'll see when the time comes.
I'm taking what has happened before as the example.
I'll make sure to remind you when the time comes.
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Comments
Confirmed B2p, it's there in black and white. Also you have to remember that both Dark&Light and, Age Of Wushu 2 are coming out on consoles so that's why they have chosen the B2p model.
Cash shops are the problem with MMOS. Its not as bad in a game like ESO or SWTOR because these are themepark MMOs and they focus everything around end game. Sandboxes focus on community and the journey not the end goal. This is what people have forgotten by having countless WOW Clones. Sandboxes are not games on rails, they are open ended games like Minecraft is. Having a Cash shop only invites wallet wars which people are sick and tired of.
Now we can talk about not having a $15 a month sub. Lets start out with a 10.99 sub. Or have a year sub where you can spend $99.90 for unlimited access for 365 days. Lets also talk about a lower box cost like $40 or $50 and not $70 for the base game and $120 for the CE version. Lets also talk about DLC/Downloadable Xpax for $29.99 every year or 2 that will expand the size of the world.
If you did a year sub @ $99.90 and a box cost @ $50.00 you are talking for the entire game and unlimited access $149.90 for the whole year. If you lived in Ohio with Minimum wage at $8.10 that is 19 Hours of work you get a full years sub and game. That is very dam easy to get. Then you are not being nicheled and dimed to death for things like bag space, and mounts, and gear looks, and crafting mats, and endless shit and time the developers spend on the cash shop. At $150 a year you can demand world expansions every year, housing in the world even if its limited and slowly expands, you can want more and newer mobs, bosses, public dungeons to go and have fun with. YOU WILL NOT NEED TO SPEND $25 @ A POP FOR THIS STUFF. I love the ESO Model but dam I have to either sub or Pay $25 for 2 more dungeons? That is because Zenimax needs to make money, BUT they know they can make more money off of mind games in the cash shop vs a sub.
I think DnL will be a good MMO if it makes a Quality MMO, pushes people to socialize and work together and keeps the P2P setup with a decently priced sub. It's possible they could be worth a $15 a month sub but starting at $15 a month might be high. Starting at $12 per month then moving it down to $9.99 a month for a year sub would be a best idea.
'Keeps the P2P' is an odd statement when the whole point is that this was a misunderstanding in that one communication and that a B2P payment system is the one they intend to use.
You do not have to have a cash shop in a B2P title, they could rely on the DLC they have mentioned, though I agree a cash shop of some sort is likely. However, there are ways to implement this that could be successful. We will simply have to wait and see for more details.
It's also a PVE and PVP game with PVE and PVP servers.
And that's probably what DMKano (who said he has friends in Trion even before he started using them as alleged sources, so he's probably telling the truth in this case given that it explains a lot of why he defends the game so heavily) meant when he said going P2P would be a disaster. P2P profits, compared to F2P profits, are absolutely terrible unless you can pull in WoW or maybe FFXIV numbers, which this game almost positively won't.
Why specifically the number 10,000?
Anyway, I'll peer into my own crystal ball here and declare that if they think they can go B2P with a game-altering cash shop like BDO did, it will be a total disaster.
The only way it could possibly work is if people get rock-solid assurances that the cash shop will be cosmetic only and there will be no p2w.
Because I can hear the wailing and the gnashing of teeth already. Especially when players say "you cannot have a cash shop with a Sandbox mmo".
That already sets players up to be angry when the time comes.
They will have a cash shop and change their business model. So players should either expect it or expect to "not play" and save themselves some grief and running to forums to complain. Especially to save themselves the "They lied" bit.
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Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
B2P, F2P, let's just be clear.... if it's not sub and it's a game that they plan on supporting beyond a 6 month period, there will be cash shop items. Please align your expectations accordingly
Crazkanuk
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#1 Have a companion system like SWTOR or having gathering structures like SWG did. This reduced the time needed grinding on just gathering mats. Now you did have to grind the skill up to a certain point, you should be able to Macro this while you are around the house just not countless hours leaving your character setup with a macro do do the work
#2 Allow macros to do your crafting grind but make it requires to refresh every hour by you going to your keyboard. (Now you can clean your house and level crafting without endless hours grinding while sitting at your chair)
#3 Gold Grind, Have daily or weekly group quest that give a ton of gold that requires teamwork and not just hack n slash tactics to complete. For example Phase an area where 5 or more people help to save a village under attack by Trolls. The more people there are the more CC will be needed plus tanks and healers. Make it so it cannot be just a DPS fest. No Automate group finders for anything but yes a Group Finder Browser is good. Also if its a full Guild group increase the gold given by 15%.
#4 Gear Grind - This will be non-existent if your primary gear is used by everyone is crafted gear much like UO and SWG. Have it so that there is a main Auction House, plus allow players to build houses that can have NPC vendors sell their wares. Also allow quick travel to someones house so you can buy gear off their vendor. (Think the Ruin system like UO Had) Yes some really good gear should drop from Mobs like they did in UO BUT it should not be the primary gear everyone goes for because the gear drops are low plus crafter made gear can range better in abilities for different builds vs BiS gear from Raid drops.
#5 focus on the virtual world and what is going on and not on the treadmill game like other MMOs. By having a Virtual world an event should not be only a few weeks, it can be going over several months add to that your path in the virtual world is not rails. So you are focused on the Journey not rushing to end game to raid. Add to that when you are capped on your skills (Which should also level slowly offline) you are still on a journey to do more in the world, maybe you can jump on a ship like ArcheAge and battle other people, OR you help take down a player run city. You carve out your journey in this world its not a themepark
But with cash shop.
It's important for players to stop this cycle of expecting things will be as they "think" they will be.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I dont know how anyone can defend any pay structure any developer gives out. Because theyre all just one form of a cash grab in a different skin.
B2P means they get a guaranteed amount before they eventually go to a cash shop. Sub games (might never be another one) charge you the box price AND a sub fee for as long as they want to pretend it matters before they too go to some sort of cash shop. Free to play are really the most honest guys out there. The dont try and trick you into thinking theyre benevolent or care they just say heres the game play it and here is what you can do with your money.
Newsflash,(real) MMOs are dead, whether people want to believe that or not is their own prerogative. Theyre dead because they cost way too much to make and take way too long to get out. So long that if they released them like they used to (with no early access or pre release) the tech and graphics would be so outdated no one would want to play them anyway. Or the hype that was generated when they announced they were making it is long dead before anything release ready product saw the light of day. So these 'indy' companies are doing what they do. Raising money selling stuff and trying to make a living and hoping to catch lightening ina bottle and find something they can market enough to actually maybe finish someday.
But make no mistake about it its still about the money. The 'easier' it has gotten to make games the more games you see being developed. Thats not a coincidence. So it is becoming cheaper, not cheap enough that 'anyone' can do it but cheap enough that you can makes something that looks awesome for little money and then hope the hype train takes off and you can cash in. Then you spend a little bit more of that money to make a few 'core' demo videos and hope the hype train speeds up, then you they and cash in. Thats when you see early access monikers and Steam Greenlight descriptions. And youre 'selling' a 'product'.
Its the blueprint most of these guys who dont have nearly enough money to make anything have followed for the past 3 years. One or two have worked, most havent.
But worrying about pay models at this point is useless because who knows when the game will be retail release ready anyway.
And no F2P/B2P only makes more than Subs for a very short time unless you do the ArchAge and BDO pay to win where to keep up with crafting you need to spend Thousands of Dollars a month to be the best on the server. Its not skill that makes you the best but your fucking WALLET. In BDO the best PVPers are people who buy the gear not spend time getting it. Its not a SKILL its HOW FAT IS YOUR WALLET.
YES P2W makes more money in the short term until all the average people leave who cannot play the wallet war then your game is dead outside the people spending money just to spend money.
If Snail games spents in the $50 Million range and gets $150 from 500K people per year they will make $75 Million. Thats enough to operate on and make a profit on. As long as the Company is not run by greedy basters and investors/stockholders DnL can survive very easily without being B2P and having a cash shop which they will focus more than half their development time on.
The reason why SWTOR, ESO WILDSTAR all went F2P/B2P is because they spend $250 Million Plus. Even at 1 Million subs at $150 to $175 a year in subs alone you would only make back HALF of your initial investment in 1 year. When you start spending upwards of $100 Million on development you HAVE to have a cash shop to make your initial investment back.
Of course, more then a few P2P games fail and change model, for some reason do games not good enough for a sub tend to do fine as F2P, I guess the F2P audience have less expectations and more patience with average to bad games.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't believe a quality MMORPG needs to be driven by a f2P payment model, only subpar ones do and benefit from it.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I've always maintained that "if the game is good enough, players will sub".
However, it's much more likely that a niche game will be found "good enough" by its (relatively small) fanbase than a mass-market title being "good enough" to persuade millions of diverse players to pay a sub. That's why the list of mass-market sub games is so short...
The problem is too much money is being spent on an MMO That players burn through in a matter of weeks.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I'm taking what has happened before as the example.
I'll make sure to remind you when the time comes.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo