Player interactions.

Vermillion_Raventhal

I kind of miss being able to impact other players and impacted by them.  You don't get buffs, saving heals or rezzes often.  Even the bad things like being trained or blown up by trick chest.  

Seems like player interactions take a back seat to the streamlining of progression.   You can do almost nothing to or for other players.  I guess a lot of people just want to avoid assholes.

Vermillion_Raventhal

Nyctelios said:

There is a saying here: If you shield yourself from the bad things you'll also miss the good things.

Very true. It is a very odd evolution from a genre largely starting out based on player interactions with a lot of other players to becoming a solo genre with each player inside their own bubbles.

Axehilt

In every single WOW run I do, players don't play perfectly.  With enough mistakes, the group just completely fails to advance.

Whether you choose to call them player interactions or not, they are.  If the team doesn't work, it wipes repeatedly until the team does work.

Also in Suramar City (WOW world content) I rezzed a player several times who had gotten themselves into trouble.

So while it's true that a lot of shitty interactions were removed, the good interactions still happen.

Are you comments even based on any actual real games and/or recent gaming experience, or are you just completely fabricating the entire thread?

Vermillion_Raventhal

Axehilt said:

In every single WOW run I do, players don't play perfectly.  With enough mistakes, the group just completely fails to advance.

Whether you choose to call them player interactions or not, they are.  If the team doesn't work, it wipes repeatedly until the team does work.

Also in Suramar City (WOW world content) I rezzed a player several times who had gotten themselves into trouble.

So while it's true that a lot of shitty interactions were removed, the good interactions still happen.

Are you comments even based on any actual real games and/or recent gaming experience, or are you just completely fabricating the entire thread?

I wasn't really talking about grouping.  That's an obvious special condition players set to interact.

 I was talking more about general interactions between players good or bad just cooping in the world. Things you can't control.  

Vermillion_Raventhal

Xodic said:

I think that most games today, by design, don't want their 'customers' to be interrupted. They need to be able to stop what ever they're doing , at any time and any place, to complete a cash shop purchase on impulse.

http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/444750/cash-shop-theory/p1

Marketers and retailers tend to exploit these impulses which are tied to the basic want for instant gratification.”

Now, think for a moment about the game play that these games provide.

-Clear, visible ques, ie. a big flashing quest marker above an NPCs head.

-Minimap way points that keep you informed of where you need to go.

-An easily accessible journal to keep track of quest to dos.

-Repetitive tasks and routines.

-Lack of distractions while in game, be it PvP free zones or instances, removing the possibility that others can interrupt your game play.

-Tasks that may be boring, but are stimulating through rewards.

-Removing the need for patience, the ability to dive right in, rushing through tasks without reading instructions.

So, this list is a good representation of everything available to us right now.

It’s also an exact list of ADHD symptoms and treatment. The same methods you would use in a class of ADHD children to keep and hold attention. Is it a coincidence that people with ADHD tendencies are also the ones most likely to show impulsive and hyperfocus behavior?

I can certainly see that.

"-Tasks that may be boring, but are stimulating through rewards."

My biggest pet peeve wit this genre.  

Octagon7711

Missed the days in SWG when you could teach language skills to new players and even provide training so they wouldn't have to pay trainers.  Now I can only help players by going through low level zones and help taking out mobs for players running and typing, "HELLLPPP!!!"  Also it's nice to toss heals at players to give them a hand.

SEANMCAD

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

I kind of miss being able to impact other players and impacted by them.  You don't get buffs, saving heals or rezzes often.  Even the bad things like being trained or blown up by trick chest.  

Seems like player interactions take a back seat to the streamlining of progression.   You can do almost nothing to or for other players.  I guess a lot of people just want to avoid assholes.

In Darkfall if you didnt have someone to buff others you were pretty much assured to loose. debuff enamies as a skill also existed which I personally focused on.

Axehilt

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

I wasn't really talking about grouping.  That's an obvious special condition players set to interact.

 I was talking more about general interactions between players good or bad just cooping in the world. Things you can't control.  

Shitty world PVP still exists for players who opt into it.

My Suramar example was world content where I found a random corpse (didn't even see them die and their corpse was released so I wasn't even sure they were online) and tried reviving it and it worked.

All world content in WOW is generally shared nowadays, so I constantly have players pulling mobs to me as my protection Paladin which lets us both kill things faster.  When I do this to other players' tanks as a DPS I toss them heals afterward to top them off as thanks for helping us both tear through content faster.

Also you can't simply ignore grouping.  Just because players choose to interact with one another that doesn't mean they aren't interacting.   They're interacting.  It's interaction.

You can't just ignore the parts of reality that don't help you fabricate an imaginary story that you want to believe.

Vermillion_Raventhal

Axehilt said:

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

I wasn't really talking about grouping.  That's an obvious special condition players set to interact.

 I was talking more about general interactions between players good or bad just cooping in the world. Things you can't control.  

Shitty world PVP still exists for players who opt into it.

My Suramar example was world content where I found a random corpse (didn't even see them die and their corpse was released so I wasn't even sure they were online) and tried reviving it and it worked.

All world content in WOW is generally shared nowadays, so I constantly have players pulling mobs to me as my protection Paladin which lets us both kill things faster.  When I do this to other players' tanks as a DPS I toss them heals afterward to top them off as thanks for helping us both tear through content faster.

Also you can't simply ignore grouping.  Just because players choose to interact with one another that doesn't mean they aren't interacting.   They're interacting.  It's interaction.

You can't just ignore the parts of reality that don't help you fabricate an imaginary story that you want to believe.

I can ignore combat grouping if it's not the spirit of what I am talking about.  And with all the talk about logic and reality... you shouldn't be the only one in the thread not to get it.

Jaiml

Way back in the original SWG me and my buddies had a band that played in a cantina.  Players would come and listen in for the stat restore or whatever it was you got.  Met some cool people that way. 

We never did leave that town but stayed there almost our whole game lives playing for everyone.

I still miss that cantina in some hole-in-the-wall town.

Is that the kind of stuff you mean?



**edit for spelling

Octagon7711

Jaiml said:

Way back in the original SWG me and my buddies had a band that played in a cantina.  Players would come and listen in for the stat restore or whatever it was you got.  Met some cool people that way. 

We never did leave that town but stayed there almost our whole game lives playing for everyone.

I still miss that cantina in some hole-in-the-wall town.

Is that the kind of stuff you mean?



**edit for spelling

Hanging out in cantinas while waiting for buffs was good fun. They really did a great job with submersion.  I had a doctor and would wait at the hospital to heal mind wounds for players, good conversations, good times.

Axehilt

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

I can ignore combat grouping if it's not the spirit of what I am talking about.  And with all the talk about logic and reality... you shouldn't be the only one in the thread not to get it.

Yes, but why choose ignorance if you could choose not to be ignorant?  You gain no benefit by ignoring everything that doesn't support your fiction.

Again, the reality is that even when you have your reality-blinders on, your thread is baseless because I've described just a few of the many ways players still interact with one another in modern MMORPGs.  Without your reality-blinders, it rings that much more false.

immodium

Octagon7711 said:

Jaiml said:

Way back in the original SWG me and my buddies had a band that played in a cantina.  Players would come and listen in for the stat restore or whatever it was you got.  Met some cool people that way. 

We never did leave that town but stayed there almost our whole game lives playing for everyone.

I still miss that cantina in some hole-in-the-wall town.

Is that the kind of stuff you mean?



**edit for spelling

Hanging out in cantinas while waiting for buffs was good fun. They really did a great job with submersion.  I had a doctor and would wait at the hospital to heal mind wounds for players, good conversations, good times.

Well you would not have got far, Docs heal Health and Action wounds.

Must say Ents & Doc mechanics I really enjoyed. I didn't play one myself I was a combat medic, but the whole play style revolving around just buffing the combatants.

Vermillion_Raventhal

Jaiml said:

Way back in the original SWG me and my buddies had a band that played in a cantina.  Players would come and listen in for the stat restore or whatever it was you got.  Met some cool people that way. 

We never did leave that town but stayed there almost our whole game lives playing for everyone.

I still miss that cantina in some hole-in-the-wall town.

Is that the kind of stuff you mean?



**edit for spelling

Yeah.  SWG was a true social experiment.

  

Nanfoodle

Funny thing is I people come for the game but often stay for the people. I played EQ1, DAoC and WoW for years after I was done with the game, just to hang out with the friends I had made. When I play a new MMO I still send out a mass email to the in-game friends I have made to get them to come play with me. Its been many years since I have added to that list of friends. You just dont interact with people in game anymore. 

Deivos

Axehilt said:

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

I can ignore combat grouping if it's not the spirit of what I am talking about.  And with all the talk about logic and reality... you shouldn't be the only one in the thread not to get it.

Yes, but why choose ignorance if you could choose not to be ignorant?  You gain no benefit by ignoring everything that doesn't support your fiction.

Again, the reality is that even when you have your reality-blinders on, your thread is baseless because I've described just a few of the many ways players still interact with one another in modern MMORPGs.  Without your reality-blinders, it rings that much more false.

Because it's an off-topic tangent and grouping-specific content is not the same as game world and dynamic/emergant content where any number of people are interacting with each-other.

What you're talking about is either finite interactions or task-built group based content. Neither of those being the subject of the thread or a prevalent part of the interactivity of open world collaborative gameplay.

The part you do suggest in relation to things (rezzing someone, assisting with a mob, healing someone) is much more applicable, but you providing anecdote of  "But I did X" does not serve as evidence of such behavior being a commonplace element. It is simply that, anecdotal.

Don't accuse others of wearing "reality blinders" if you're actively employing use of them yourself. Take a moment to consider where your argument is failing to address the topic and is instead a tangent.

Jaiml

I agree Nanfoodle.

One of the best guilds I have ever been a part of was in WoW.  Started back in 2004. 

Not many of us play anymore but we are still friends.  To this day we still travel to visit with each other.  I haven't made friends like that in years!  Life long friends that I would never have met if it had not been for WoW!

Vermillion_Raventhal

Axehilt said:

Vermillion_Raventhal said:

I can ignore combat grouping if it's not the spirit of what I am talking about.  And with all the talk about logic and reality... you shouldn't be the only one in the thread not to get it.

Yes, but why choose ignorance if you could choose not to be ignorant?  You gain no benefit by ignoring everything that doesn't support your fiction.

Again, the reality is that even when you have your reality-blinders on, your thread is baseless because I've described just a few of the many ways players still interact with one another in modern MMORPGs.  Without your reality-blinders, it rings that much more false.

You described combat grouping.  I don't think anyone is going to claim there is no combat grouping or PKing in PKing games.  It's like saying I wish defense in football was still played the same as in years past.  You say they still tackle and mention how your favorite player still tackles.

But if you want to continue to tell me what my topic in my own thread is about go ahead lol.

Vermillion_Raventhal

Hell I miss just being able hate people and have rivals.

Some if my bitter enemies from UO became friends down the line. 

Forgrimm

Archeage is chock-full of those kinds of player interactions, both good and bad. Also, Axehilt is correct, and no, he's not talking about combat grouping. With the advent of world quests in WoW there's been a lot of interaction among random players coming across the same world quest areas and objectives. Most of the things you mentioned in your op:

I kind of miss being able to impact other players and impacted by them.  You don't get buffs, saving heals or rezzes often.  Even the bad things like being trained or blown up by trick chest.  

are the kinds of things that are happening now. People tossing buffs on other random players, people rezzing other players who bit the dust during an encounter, healers spreading heals around to those who are close to biting the dust. Heck, I've even been trained on several times when someone comes running by with 6 mobs on them and the mobs pass through my consecration AoE and aggro on me.

Deivos

In the short-term of new content objectives added with the Legion expansion, sure.

The stability of that behavior is entirely hinged upon the flow of content in a game like WoW though because once people have participated in the world events, the inclination to interact with others to complete said events again diminishes because they have already been rewarded for the scripted content. 

IE, unless the devs themselves keep adding events to the space to push emphasis onto that play style, it's not sustainable.

GW2 as a separate example with it's living story and repeatable zone events coupled with level scaling players in zones possibly comes closest to a modern stable rendition of that kind of behavior, but you'll also notice that in that instance the activity moves with the living story, and it not sustained in the game world as a whole even there.

The games just don't support the basics of the player interaction because there is no extended reason to it. In Archeage you at least have the PvP, but that does not really tie well into anything other than territory control and pack stealing, so for the most part it devolves into griefing more than any other type of activity.

You need a game built for the sustainability of open gameplay, which means supporting the interaction between players with variety in options and consequences. That's not something that the world activities in games like WoW provide with the only instances of such being the scripted world events, which is more of a one-and-done activity than an ongoing one.

Forgrimm

Deivos said:

The stability of that behavior is entirely hinged upon the flow of content in a game like WoW though because once people have participated in the world events, the inclination to interact with others to complete said events again diminishes because they have already been rewarded for the scripted content...That's not something that the world activities in games like WoW provide with the only instances of such being the scripted world events, which is more of a one-and-done activity than an ongoing one.

Incorrect. World quests are not a one and done thing, they are an on-going thing that people are doing every day, and will be doing every day due to the reward system in place. World quests offer: gold rewards, reputation, armor/gear that is scaled to your character's current ilvl, profession items such as an herb that is only available through world quests, artifact power, etc.

Additionally, there are emissary quest clusters that award additional gold and items with the potential for a legendary piece of gear when you complete either 4 quests in a specific zone or 4 quests throughout the new region that are associated with the particular faction. 

Wizardry

I am all for player interaction,i expect it in my mmo's however i get a distinct feeling the OP is ONLY concerned with pvp interaction.
Personally i prefer friendly interaction over pvp any day and all day.I like to see players work together to overcome a problem or to take down some baddie.However i detest simpleton game designs that simply create non related dungeons just for the sake of creating a RAID scenario,that type of interaction i am not interested in to say the least.I want ALL interaction to have some real meaning and not just to kill some Boss for loot.

Deivos

Forgrimm said:

Deivos said:

The stability of that behavior is entirely hinged upon the flow of content in a game like WoW though because once people have participated in the world events, the inclination to interact with others to complete said events again diminishes because they have already been rewarded for the scripted content...That's not something that the world activities in games like WoW provide with the only instances of such being the scripted world events, which is more of a one-and-done activity than an ongoing one.

Incorrect. World quests are not a one and done thing, they are an on-going thing that people are doing every day...

One and one in terms of reward, people doing them "every day" is because of a rotating cast of people earning the rewards from them right now. I addressed this already.

Forgrimm

Deivos said:

Forgrimm said:

Deivos said:

The stability of that behavior is entirely hinged upon the flow of content in a game like WoW though because once people have participated in the world events, the inclination to interact with others to complete said events again diminishes because they have already been rewarded for the scripted content...That's not something that the world activities in games like WoW provide with the only instances of such being the scripted world events, which is more of a one-and-done activity than an ongoing one.

Incorrect. World quests are not a one and done thing, they are an on-going thing that people are doing every day...

One and one in terms of reward, people doing them "every day" is because of a rotating cast of people earning the rewards from them right now. I addressed this already.

Again incorrect. The world quests refresh every day. There is never a point where you're done with them. You can do every world quest on your map and you'll have more the next day, offering more rewards. I'll have just as many to do 3 months from now as I do today. 

Deivos

Forgrimm said:

Deivos said:

Forgrimm said:

Deivos said:

The stability of that behavior is entirely hinged upon the flow of content in a game like WoW though because once people have participated in the world events, the inclination to interact with others to complete said events again diminishes because they have already been rewarded for the scripted content...That's not something that the world activities in games like WoW provide with the only instances of such being the scripted world events, which is more of a one-and-done activity than an ongoing one.

Incorrect. World quests are not a one and done thing, they are an on-going thing that people are doing every day...

One and one in terms of reward, people doing them "every day" is because of a rotating cast of people earning the rewards from them right now. I addressed this already.

Again incorrect. The world quests refresh every day. There is never a point where you're done with them. You can do every world quest on your map and you'll have more the next day, offering more rewards. I'll have just as many to do 3 months from now as I do today. 

Those "world quests" are just dailies that players are grinding because it's the present content to give reward. When the game adds new content that will no longer be the case and they will move on to the next grind. And because it's a mostly rigid element, once they've ground the dailies for everything of value they will move on.

Even the gear you get for the rewards are going to not be worth as much as if you flip off to something else such as a raid to up your gear level.

Having just as many to do means nothing if the rewards are moot. I again already addressed this.