Just because a game requires a massive time sink doesn't make it "hard" just makes it a massive time sink. Basically what I think of when I think of games like - Darkfall or Eve. You mentioned that Legion is too easy.. Just because a lot of stuff is accessible doesn't necessarily make it easy. I would argue that maybe 5% - 10% of the WoW community actually experiences the "hardest" raids etc. Anyways, we see these types of rants once a month and just need to clarify, time sink does not equal hard.
Only a small % of the WoW playerbase actually Raid, its imo one of the least fun aspects of the game. Dungeons are fine, but Raids are the definition of a time sink in WoW, its all about equipment grind, and spending hours on a Raid, to get equipment so you can do the next Raid, or a slightly harder version of the same Raid, i'd rather do something actually fun, its not hard, its just a grind, and unfortunately, not that much fun.
Good means different things to different players. Not everyone plays MMO for the challenge, some play for social aspects, exploration, escapism and 100s of other reasons.
if EvE was truly the best MMO - everyone would be playing it.
EVE'S like a fine European sports car, top of the line, has some quirks, and clearly not for the masses.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Just because a game requires a massive time sink doesn't make it "hard" just makes it a massive time sink. Basically what I think of when I think of games like - Darkfall or Eve. You mentioned that Legion is too easy.. Just because a lot of stuff is accessible doesn't necessarily make it easy. I would argue that maybe 5% - 10% of the WoW community actually experiences the "hardest" raids etc. Anyways, we see these types of rants once a month and just need to clarify, time sink does not equal hard.
Only a small % of the WoW playerbase actually Raid, its imo one of the least fun aspects of the game. Dungeons are fine, but Raids are the definition of a time sink in WoW, its all about equipment grind, and spending hours on a Raid, to get equipment so you can do the next Raid, or a slightly harder version of the same Raid, i'd rather do something actually fun, its not hard, its just a grind, and unfortunately, not that much fun.
So raids are essentially equal to the skill/ISK grind in EVE ? :P J/K in a way..
However that is essentially my issue with EVE and Raids alike. Constant repetition that just leads to more repetition, unless you wanna break the monotony to be a meat shield for a corp. What makes it worse is you can't even perform a manual loopty loop for shits and giggles along the way. As far as MMORPGs go, it's not horrible (yet boring), as far as Space Sims go though... yawwnnn.. I like the way the outfitting systems work but not much else. I just never feel like I am getting anywhere in that game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Good means different things to different players. Not everyone plays MMO for the challenge, some play for social aspects, exploration, escapism and 100s of other reasons.
if EvE was truly the best MMO - everyone would be playing it.
EVE'S like a fine European sports car, top of the line, has some quirks, and clearly not for the masses.
Nope. Eve is more like a DIY build a plane kit. You either put tons of time into building it, and feel so accomplished, that you think you are better than everyone else. Or give up part of the way through after trying it, with the realization that you don't find it fun, and proceed to spend your time elsewhere.
In War - Victory. In Peace - Vigilance. In Death - Sacrifice.
Good means different things to different players. Not everyone plays MMO for the challenge, some play for social aspects, exploration, escapism and 100s of other reasons.
if EvE was truly the best MMO - everyone would be playing it.
EVE'S like a fine European sports car, top of the line, has some quirks, and clearly not for the masses.
I would compare it to a 10,000 piece puzzle of a white cloud. Anyone can do it if you put enough time into it.
if you consider time that needs to spend in order to the succesfull.. yes agree EVE is TOP notch then
Also not really a fan of spreadsheet combat..
little tip: come play with pro's @ rise of agon..
one day, someone will have to try to explain to me how it is a spreadsheet game.
1) If you think it is clicking one or two buttons and watching - your doing it wrong. 2) if you think you need spreadsheets to understand the best way to attack someone - you are doing it wrong.
Otherwise, anything you say as far as a spreadsheet goes would likely apply to any game. Like tracking resources, what they make, where they can be found etc.
or the min max people using DPS parsing.
To say it is a spreadsheet game is purely a lack of playing the game and trying to apply the traditional MMO mechanics to it that dont work very well.
Do the eve fans have any argument, hitting LOL with no rebuttal is a cowards game.
For starters flanking doesn't have the same effect, as directional fire is not accounted for. That type of thing is a part real combat tactics, MMORPGs do not account for that type of strategy, in most cases hitting someone from behind is no different than hitting someone from the front.
The only types of tactics that truly work in most MMO's is boxing folks in, funneling them into hard to maneuver situations or throwing the right class(skill loadout) into the right scenario. That is not the same as military tactical titles.
Eve does though, just not in a way you recognize. It your direction and speed in relation to your target dictates the DPS you do. Its called transversal and Angular speed.
Think of it this way, and this is where position is important and Eve is not just a click and watch game, in any MMO shooter or even in real life - is it easier to hit someone running away from you or towards you versus perpendicular to you? The same mechanics are built into Eve but most new players just close and sit still and die horribly without understanding this and wonder why they suck at PvP.
Do the eve fans have any argument, hitting LOL with no rebuttal is a cowards game.
For starters flanking doesn't have the same effect, as directional fire is not accounted for. That type of thing is a part real combat tactics, MMORPGs do not account for that type of strategy, in most cases hitting someone from behind is no different than hitting someone from the front.
The only types of tactics that truly work in most MMO's is boxing folks in, funneling them into hard to maneuver situations or throwing the right class(skill loadout) into the right scenario. That is not the same as military tactical titles.
Eve does though, just not in a way you recognize. It your direction and speed in relation to your target dictates the DPS you do. Its called transversal and Angular speed.
Think of it this way, and this is where position is important and Eve is not just a click and watch game, in any MMO shooter or even in real life - is it easier to hit someone running away from you or towards you versus perpendicular to you? The same mechanics are built into Eve but most new players just close and sit still and die horribly without understanding this and wonder why they suck at PvP.
And these same things apply to PvE as well. Just stating that after reading your reply above.
Do the eve fans have any argument, hitting LOL with no rebuttal is a cowards game.
For starters flanking doesn't have the same effect, as directional fire is not accounted for. That type of thing is a part real combat tactics, MMORPGs do not account for that type of strategy, in most cases hitting someone from behind is no different than hitting someone from the front.
The only types of tactics that truly work in most MMO's is boxing folks in, funneling them into hard to maneuver situations or throwing the right class(skill loadout) into the right scenario. That is not the same as military tactical titles.
Eve does though, just not in a way you recognize. It your direction and speed in relation to your target dictates the DPS you do. Its called transversal and Angular speed.
Think of it this way, and this is where position is important and Eve is not just a click and watch game, in any MMO shooter or even in real life - is it easier to hit someone running away from you or towards you versus perpendicular to you? The same mechanics are built into Eve but most new players just close and sit still and die horribly without understanding this and wonder why they suck at PvP.
This same type of system was in SWG (different load outs were more effective at different ranges). Yet I still stand by my original statement, I've never felt tactics were truly required, the rules and possibilities get in the way of that. As most fights aren't a fair encounter (in PVP or PVE) by nature. tactics can be used, yes, as I pointed out at the end of that post (that said, they don't always make a difference). They're also not typically required. in contrast in Men of War as an example, you're not going to make it past jack squat without applying tactical restraint, as well as awareness of the situation.
It's like apples and oranges. Hence why I seek my challenges in those games. I use MMORPG's more for escape/adventures nowadays. They mostly don't require much more than a bit of attention to what's around you.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
hey mostly don't require much more than a bit of attention to what's around you.
LMAO I wish that were true then I could just AFK and kill PVE guys but in reality people respond to people and I have to pay attention to the fact when the hunter becomes the hunted. The moxy of these cattle to hunt me when I am hunting them. But hey, I guess that is human nature.
Eve is a unique game. The community is unique and game concept is unique - both in a good and a bad way depending on the individual. I've played it for 7-8 years and I both love and hate the game (and yes I am a bittervet). To some people the community is "rotten" because it's more realistic, but they just want to relax and go to a fantasy land where people keep their word and don't screw each other over. But to other people the community is perfect.
It's not really "harder" per se, because it's still grinding. Whether you are grinding belt rats for ISK, or if you are updating (grinding) market orders for trading, or if you are updating (grinding) industrial / research jobs, or if you are making many forum posts (grinding) to build your Market Discussion reputation with the ultimate goal of pulling off a big heist, or getting a few hundred billion ISK worth of loan.
Everything takes time commitment and grinding (and in many cases, real life money investment. I will bet that most trillionaires have at one point purchased PLEX to fund their capital). I know I have.
Some people would like to think that Eve Online is a "more sophisticated" type of grinding. Many Eve Online players have an arrogant attitude over the fact that they play Eve, and consider themselves to be more sophisticated gamers.
Comments
One is fantasy, the other is a Space Sim.
With Fantasy MMOs there are many good ones to compare.
With ONE main Space MMO, there is nothing else really to compare to EVE.
Irrelevant Topic, but to each their own.
Have fun in EVE.
Also OP, you should have added the words "to me" at the end of your topic title.
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
Do you just not like the "space" aesthetic?
Give me liberty or give me lasers
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
However that is essentially my issue with EVE and Raids alike. Constant repetition that just leads to more repetition, unless you wanna break the monotony to be a meat shield for a corp. What makes it worse is you can't even perform a manual loopty loop for shits and giggles along the way. As far as MMORPGs go, it's not horrible (yet boring), as far as Space Sims go though... yawwnnn.. I like the way the outfitting systems work but not much else. I just never feel like I am getting anywhere in that game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
In War - Victory.
In Peace - Vigilance.
In Death - Sacrifice.
What about eve online is challenging outside of memorizing/copying other peoples ship builds?
one day, someone will have to try to explain to me how it is a spreadsheet game.
1) If you think it is clicking one or two buttons and watching - your doing it wrong.
2) if you think you need spreadsheets to understand the best way to attack someone - you are doing it wrong.
Otherwise, anything you say as far as a spreadsheet goes would likely apply to any game. Like tracking resources, what they make, where they can be found etc.
or the min max people using DPS parsing.
To say it is a spreadsheet game is purely a lack of playing the game and trying to apply the traditional MMO mechanics to it that dont work very well.
It's like apples and oranges. Hence why I seek my challenges in those games. I use MMORPG's more for escape/adventures nowadays. They mostly don't require much more than a bit of attention to what's around you.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It's not really "harder" per se, because it's still grinding. Whether you are grinding belt rats for ISK, or if you are updating (grinding) market orders for trading, or if you are updating (grinding) industrial / research jobs, or if you are making many forum posts (grinding) to build your Market Discussion reputation with the ultimate goal of pulling off a big heist, or getting a few hundred billion ISK worth of loan.
Everything takes time commitment and grinding (and in many cases, real life money investment. I will bet that most trillionaires have at one point purchased PLEX to fund their capital). I know I have.
Some people would like to think that Eve Online is a "more sophisticated" type of grinding. Many Eve Online players have an arrogant attitude over the fact that they play Eve, and consider themselves to be more sophisticated gamers.