No refunds for crowd funding, you should know that going in, its basically a donation to develop a game you want to play that might or might not ever get made.
Its not a pre-order for a game.
What's the difference?
Do both, try to get your money back for each transaction and get back to me with the results. But by then you will have your answer.
CIG has given refunds when players contacted the proper agencies to enforce consumer rights. So again what's the difference?
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
No refunds for crowd funding, you should know that going in, its basically a donation to develop a game you want to play that might or might not ever get made.
Its not a pre-order for a game.
Taxes are being charged so it's a pre order
A lot of goods and service taxes around the globe, in Canada you would have to pay tax. I don't think we can call Crowdfunding a non-profit or a registered charity. I don't believe crowdfunding for a consumer product would meet the criteria.
It's tricky because some crowdfunding is viewed as a donation and thus you have no rights. Also the rules surrounding this vary from country to country.
Even here in Canada the CRA look at this on a case by case basis.
CIG has given refunds when players contacted the proper agencies to enforce consumer rights. So again what's the difference?
That's disingenuous from you. And you know it. Opportunities on open-policy refunds from CIG's part existed during several months last year, and that is publicly known.
I would love to see that argument with the BBB. He treated us like shit on the phone so we gave him a hard time with his refund.......
If you every worked in CS or complaint management ...
you are absolutely allowed to end a call if the customer just curses and uses abusive language. Which one can verify as the calls are usually taped ("for quality management purposes").
So yes .... you do not have to take shit from a customer .... and that is something an ombudsman of a federal authority DOES understand.
Have fun
Sorry to burst your bubble, but it totally depends on your company, speaking as an ex-call center manager I can tell you without a hesitation that some companies will not allow staff to hang up on a customer just because of bad language, sometimes even abusive language.
Only time's that companies will universally allow call termination is when it's threatening language.
As for taped call's, contrary to folk law, they are infact used for training purposes and keeping call quality at the level that the call center requires. And generally not all calls are recorded (although that might be differant now with storage being so much cheaper to do)
Either way - if you hear the "for training" stuff in a call, this call may not used in courts at all.
Most taped conversations are not exempted from subpoena just because they're only used for training purposes.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
No refunds for crowd funding, you should know that going in, its basically a donation to develop a game you want to play that might or might not ever get made.
Its not a pre-order for a game.
Taxes are being charged so it's a pre order
A lot of goods and service taxes around the globe, in Canada you would have to pay tax. I don't think we can call Crowdfunding a non-profit or a registered charity. I don't believe crowdfunding for a consumer product would meet the criteria.
It's tricky because some crowdfunding is viewed as a donation and thus you have no rights. Also the rules surrounding this vary from country to country.
Even here in Canada the CRA look at this on a case by case basis.
Pretty easy to differentiate between a startup company creating a consumer product and a person raising funds for cancer treatment etc. Accountants don't earn their keep from being useless or doing the obvious.
@laserit you know what's complicated? People have been using Kickstarter as one Pre-Order platform.
No wonder Paypal is "stepping away" from refunds and disputes involving Crowdfunded projects. There's no "world-wide law" on the matter.
It's so open for abuse. Personally I've decided just to leave it alone. I did originally KS fund SC for $60 as I wanted to see what would come of it.
Easy money for KS them self with basically zero responsibility.
I've supported a couple other projects I've been interested in, not through KS or similar. But when I've seen enough progress that I'm confident in a released product.
They continue to overhype things. Star Marine is 3-5 weeks from launching and SQ42 will be out in 2016. Now its the PG planets are good to go. I don't believe anything this company says any more.
It's so open for abuse. Personally I've decided just to leave it alone. I did originally KS fund SC for $60 as I wanted to see what would come of it.
Easy money for KS them self with basically zero responsibility.
I've supported a couple other projects I've been interested in, not through KS or similar. But when I've seen enough progress that I'm confident in a released product.
It's very wrongly taken. I see so many people acting like it is a Pre-Order, take it as granted, take it as if a kickstarter, crowdfund does NOT involve any risk. I'm always aware of this when I back anything, I'm self concious about something that may or may not be delivered is something very real.
It's like the people who go to Steam Early Access buying the final version of the game, when they have not bought that, then when it doesn't happen everybody goes angry yet they never read that you were buying the game as it IS, not as it will be.
I was hoping they would show more of SQ42. That is what I am waiting for, I don't care about the SC PU stuff. As long as they get that right I will be happy.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but it totally depends on your company, speaking as an ex-call center manager I can tell you without a hesitation that some companies will not allow staff to hang up on a customer just because of bad language, sometimes even abusive language.
This was made illegal on our country. There was a scandal of suicides and mental breakdowns high rates on employees of call centers and they looked at what these people are submitted into, well, total submission. These days if you get heated you are usually asked to calm down, if not they'll hang the call.
Ironically, if they skipped GamesCon and showed us all of that at CitizenCon, plus the new planetary tech, people would be screaming for joy lol Perception is a very powerful thing.
Yeah, GC originally was not really even to have a presentation; they changed their minds. As for Citcon, if SQ42 had been shown as they had said it would, the story would have been different.
Well if they released a game the story would've been different
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
Reason Given: As of this date I have not seen a product, based on recent news the
product is being pushed back again. Stretch goals keep stretching. The
cash shop is working and fully launched, yet no game. But lots of ships
to buy for money, just no game.
CIG Response,
Thanks for your patience.
I
am happy to confirm that I have now issued a refund for $xx via Stripe.
Please note that it may take a few days for the refund to be fully
processed.
Should you have any further concerns or questions, please let me know.
Regards xxxxxxx
Customer Service Manager & Lead Moderator
Cloud Imperium Games
Didn't have to fight, just asked and was refunded no issues. Live in Canada for the record.
No refunds for crowd funding, you should know that going in, its basically a donation to develop a game you want to play that might or might not ever get made.
Its not a pre-order for a game.
Taxes are being charged so it's a pre order
Agree and so does the CA Attorney General apparently. I had zero problem getting a full refund after filing a dispute with the CA BBB. Granted CIG lied and called me names but they gave me back my money.
No refunds for crowd funding, you should know that going in, its basically a donation to develop a game you want to play that might or might not ever get made.
Its not a pre-order for a game.
Taxes are being charged so it's a pre order
Agree and so does the CA Attorney General apparently. I had zero problem getting a full refund after filing a dispute with the CA BBB. Granted CIG lied and called me names but they gave me back my money.
CIG has given refunds when players contacted the proper agencies to enforce consumer rights. So again what's the difference?
That's disingenuous from you. And you know it. Opportunities on open-policy refunds from CIG's part existed during several months last year, and that is publicly known.
That is disingenuous of you and you know it. The no refund policy was put in place BEFORE all the bad news was released like Star Marine indefinitely postponed, ToS changed to say they dont have to deliver a game, co-op no longer being a part of SQ42 and the game releasing as a MVP. Up until the no refund policy was put in place, all we were told is that everything was rainbows and unicorns.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
That is disingenuous of you and you know it. The no refund policy was put in place BEFORE all the bad news was released like Star Marine indefinitely postponed, ToS changed to say they dont have to deliver a game, co-op no longer being a part of SQ42 and the game releasing as a MVP. Up until the no refund policy was put in place, all we were told is that everything was rainbows and unicorns.
Yet refunds did always happen. And still do. I don't know why pretending there's some global rule towards refunding people. Every case is its own case, some people have the right to such, others do not; something that also fall upon the location of every single person towards the right it would have to call out for it, why do you think Australians get special refund "privileges" nobody else really has?
As for the before bad news, that is a lie; SM had already faced the indefinite delay, so did all the drama towards CIG "crashing in 90 days" (including the Escapists Drama) had happened, was all before the refund window had "closed", that was at December last year.
Looks like it's turning into a giant scam. If only there was a way for people to have seen this before it happened. Perhaps fans should give them more money?
CIG has given refunds when players contacted the proper agencies to enforce consumer rights. So again what's the difference?
That's disingenuous from you. And you know it. Opportunities on open-policy refunds from CIG's part existed during several months last year, and that is publicly known.
You want me to find and post the articles about how someone got a refund after going to official agencies after being turned down by CIG for a refund?
Sure kickstarters want you to believe their word supersedes local laws but there are consumer protection agencies whose job is to make sure customer rights are upheld, something a lot of companies don't want.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
They have given refunds after insane pressure and threats, it's taken people months to get their refund, I would hardly call that acting voluntarily. They also write really stupid crap trying to justify their progress, guilt trip or dissuade people by claiming getting a refund is like taking paychecks back from employees etc.
I personally know of a case of a refund in my circle of friends from 2014 where no "insane pressure or threats" were involved or necessary. CIG told my friend to reconsider and asked for the reason for the refund request. The reason was given in a second mail (--> sudden unexpected unemployment) and the refund was processed positively and without a fuss.
Do not treat CS people like shit and they will be nice and helpful. Do not spend hundreds of playtime hours in a game you claim to "not like" .... and then expect a refund.
Have fun
2014 LOL
Do you feel disappointed or concerned about SC? You sure seem to white knight it all the time.
No refunds for crowd funding, you should know that going in, its basically a donation to develop a game you want to play that might or might not ever get made.
Its not a pre-order for a game.
Here is the problem i have and go figure all these backers don't get it. I have no problem with gamer's wanting a certain of game they want to play,all that is great.However why....WHY on earth would you give him YOUR money?
If he is so posh and confident that he can build it and so confident it will do well,then let him fund it.
When questioned on the expenditures and his wife high cost of living,he stated that he had lots of his own money from past ventures.Well if that is your excuse for high expenditures and claiming you are not using the gamer's money for side ventures,then guess what,you obviously could have built this game with your own money. So why would anyone with a sane mind feel the need to give a RICH businessman their money?
I also need to point to the big picture,this was suppose to be a funded GAME, a certain game that apparently only needed 6 million.Well he most certainly had that 6 million himself and why did he just not make that game he claimed he could make?
Well to me it is super obvious,at a time when crowd funding and free handouts was running rampant.He saw a very easy target audience,people he could exploit for a lot of money,way more than he could have made with that original pitch,that original game idea.
WHY do people continue to give him money?I or i should say,supporters should be bombarding the forums with "FINISH the game you promised could be done in a year and deliver it".After that you can build on the game,but FIRST we need to see this original pitch he was making and see if he could deliver.
SO far in double the time,20x the cost,he has still yet to deliver,so why on earth are people STILL giving him money?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Even here in Canada the CRA look at this on a case by case basis.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/taxes/tax-season-2016-crowdfunding-1.3460787
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Best part in that twitch.
Opportunities on open-policy refunds from CIG's part existed during several months last year, and that is publicly known.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Pretty easy to differentiate between a startup company creating a consumer product and a person raising funds for cancer treatment etc. Accountants don't earn their keep from being useless or doing the obvious.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
People have been using Kickstarter as one Pre-Order platform.
No wonder Paypal is "stepping away" from refunds and disputes involving Crowdfunded projects. There's no "world-wide law" on the matter.
I'll brb, need to go to kickstarter pre-order some games
Easy money for KS them self with basically zero responsibility.
I've supported a couple other projects I've been interested in, not through KS or similar. But when I've seen enough progress that I'm confident in a released product.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
It's like the people who go to Steam Early Access buying the final version of the game, when they have not bought that, then when it doesn't happen everybody goes angry yet they never read that you were buying the game as it IS, not as it will be.
Redsalt... the other salt.
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
Reason Given: As of this date I have not seen a product, based on recent news the product is being pushed back again. Stretch goals keep stretching. The cash shop is working and fully launched, yet no game. But lots of ships to buy for money, just no game.
CIG Response,
Thanks for your patience.
I am happy to confirm that I have now issued a refund for $xx via Stripe. Please note that it may take a few days for the refund to be fully processed.
Should you have any further concerns or questions, please let me know.
Regards
xxxxxxx
Customer Service Manager & Lead Moderator
Cloud Imperium Games
Didn't have to fight, just asked and was refunded no issues. Live in Canada for the record.
Evil liars whoever owns Kickstarter, saying it's not....
The no refund policy was put in place BEFORE all the bad news was released like Star Marine indefinitely postponed, ToS changed to say they dont have to deliver a game, co-op no longer being a part of SQ42 and the game releasing as a MVP. Up until the no refund policy was put in place, all we were told is that everything was rainbows and unicorns.
As for the before bad news, that is a lie; SM had already faced the indefinite delay, so did all the drama towards CIG "crashing in 90 days" (including the Escapists Drama) had happened, was all before the refund window had "closed", that was at December last year.
Sure kickstarters want you to believe their word supersedes local laws but there are consumer protection agencies whose job is to make sure customer rights are upheld, something a lot of companies don't want.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Do you feel disappointed or concerned about SC? You sure seem to white knight it all the time.
I have no problem with gamer's wanting a certain of game they want to play,all that is great.However why....WHY on earth would you give him YOUR money?
If he is so posh and confident that he can build it and so confident it will do well,then let him fund it.
When questioned on the expenditures and his wife high cost of living,he stated that he had lots of his own money from past ventures.Well if that is your excuse for high expenditures and claiming you are not using the gamer's money for side ventures,then guess what,you obviously could have built this game with your own money.
So why would anyone with a sane mind feel the need to give a RICH businessman their money?
I also need to point to the big picture,this was suppose to be a funded GAME, a certain game that apparently only needed 6 million.Well he most certainly had that 6 million himself and why did he just not make that game he claimed he could make?
Well to me it is super obvious,at a time when crowd funding and free handouts was running rampant.He saw a very easy target audience,people he could exploit for a lot of money,way more than he could have made with that original pitch,that original game idea.
WHY do people continue to give him money?I or i should say,supporters should be bombarding the forums with "FINISH the game you promised could be done in a year and deliver it".After that you can build on the game,but FIRST we need to see this original pitch he was making and see if he could deliver.
SO far in double the time,20x the cost,he has still yet to deliver,so why on earth are people STILL giving him money?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.