That is disingenuous of you and you know it. The no refund policy was put in place BEFORE all the bad news was released like Star Marine indefinitely postponed, ToS changed to say they dont have to deliver a game, co-op no longer being a part of SQ42 and the game releasing as a MVP. Up until the no refund policy was put in place, all we were told is that everything was rainbows and unicorns.
Yet refunds did always happen. And still do. I don't know why pretending there's some global rule towards refunding people. Every case is its own case, some people have the right to such, others do not; something that also fall upon the location of every single person towards the right it would have to call out for it, why do you think Australians get special refund "privileges" nobody else really has?
As for the before bad news, that is a lie; SM had already faced the indefinite delay, so did all the drama towards CIG "crashing in 90 days" (including the Escapists Drama) had happened, was all before the refund window had "closed", that was at December last year.
LOL, you just keep throwing out false information.
I dont think anyone took Derek Smart and his "crashing in 90 days" or the Escapist article seriously and I never mentioned those as "bad news". You brought those up to help defend your false position. Star Marine faced delays in 2015 and there was even a false story that circulated during the summer of 2015 that said Chris Roberts reported it was delayed indefinitely but that story originated due to false information and you will not find an actual quote from Chris Roberts saying that during the summer of 2015. What you will find is Ben Lesnick responding to that story saying:
"First on the list is the statement that Star Marine has been "delayed
indefinitely," which he said is not the same thing as not having a
release date. "'Delayed indefinitely' is a games industry PR term for
‘cancelled.’ Anyone (and apparently this is a great many people) reading
clickbait headlines will believe we’ve canceled Star Marine. This is
not the case, to the point that it implies the absolute opposite of
what’s actually happening," Source: http://www.pcgamer.com/cloud-imperium-games-addresses-star-citizen-concerns/
Mr. Lesnick then went on to say this:
"The weekly updates from the team will give you a better
idea [of what's happening], but the short story is that Star Marine was
not ready for launch when we had hoped (and planned). We spent several
weeks expecting that resolving a then-current crop of blockers would
allow a PTU publish. When this didn’t happen, we conducted a full review
of the module lead by our top technical folks from around the company.
What they determined was what you read in Chris’ letter two weeks ago:
we need to rebuild several ‘boring’ backend pieces and we need to fix
serious animation issues before there would be any benefit to a
release."
The delay is a matter of "weeks and not months/years/decades," Source: (same as above but you can also find this on the official RSI website)
It was not until January of 2016 that Chris came out and said Star Marine "was in there" and let the whole world know that all the stuff they used in their marketing for 2015 was bullcrap and at that point we were a month past the "No Refund" announcement.
Are a few refunds happening, yes. If you have a government agency or other official organization contact CIG on your behalf. You make it sound like CIG is giving refunds to anyone who asks for it and that is not the case by a long shot.
One thing I can say about Erillion is that he sticks to the facts...
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
LOL, you just keep throwing out false information.
LOL; You didn't prove any point, you claimed that the refund window closed before news as the SM's indefinite delay and that is NOT TRUE, it ran during several months past it.
The indefinite delay came from SM not having any stated release date (when it's said officially when it's ready and nothing else), after several delays. So that the terminology I don't think it even came from CIG, just what the media/etc made of it.
Your spinning far too much to make up the several months refund window last year was somehow irrelevant and was not during the biggest controversy times the project had ever faced... Because of what CR said on January about SM? What makes it then YOUR opinion, NOT the fact.
LOL, you just keep throwing out false information.
LOL; You didn't prove any point, you claimed that the refund window closed before news as the SM's indefinite delay and that is NOT TRUE, it ran during several months past it.
The indefinite delay came from SM not having any stated release date (when it's said officially when it's ready and nothing else), after several delays. So that the terminology I don't think it even came from CIG, just what the media/etc made of it.
Your spinning far too much to make up the several months refund window last year was somehow irrelevant and was not during the biggest controversy times the project had ever faced... Because of what CR said on January about SM? What makes it then YOUR opinion, NOT the fact.
Show me an official quote from the RSI website that say it is delayed indefinately between July 2015 and December of 2015 when the no refund policy was put in place. If you cant, admit you are wrong.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
So can someone clear something up for me? For all these ships that run in the $200-$700 real world money range, are they obtainable in game? Is there any way for us to get these amazing ships without spending any further real world money? Seems to me, if there's no way, this game is dead to me.
Show me an official quote from the RSI website that say it is delayed indefinately between July 2015 and December of 2015 when the no refund policy was put in place. If you cant, admit you are wrong.
They had NOT said it, who said it was the MEDIA, that was the response more to how the media was portraying it, was pretty much that. I am not wrong on what I said, and it isn't even related to SM:
You attempt to discredit the whole situation, that was the biggest fear mongering campaign i ever saw on the internet as irrelevant, on taking DS seriously, remember how many large media websites made articles of his statements about the imminent "apocalypse"? (before they realized he's full of...) and obviously, the whole escapist situation.
That IS my point, you're just attempting to go through the assumption that the whole situation last year is irrelevant, solely to backup and lock the reason to refunds to be mostly about SM's delay; and that Sir, is what is your opinion.
So can someone clear something up for me? For all these ships that run in the $200-$700 real world money range, are they obtainable in game? Is there any way for us to get these amazing ships without spending any further real world money? Seems to me, if there's no way, this game is dead to me.
All I can say is don't trust this company man. It is going to be the biggest p2w money grab game ever created in the history of video games. That I have no doubt.
So can someone clear something up for me? For all these ships that run in the $200-$700 real world money range, are they obtainable in game? Is there any way for us to get these amazing ships without spending any further real world money? Seems to me, if there's no way, this game is dead to me.
Yes, it's been stated that ships can be earned just by playing the game.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
The excuses for this game's mismanagement are legion. CIG is now clocking in at employee costs of around $40 mil a year right now. Can they sell that many promise-ships? Even many of the starry-eyed backers of yore are starting to feel antsy. For good reason. And the reasons lead back to the top.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
CIG is now clocking in at employee costs of around $40 mil a year right now.
And you say that like that comes from accurate information not based on speculation...
In any way running something of this scale and that kept growing can't be cheap, though SC this year is shaping up to collect around as most funding as last year, and last year was already the record of funding they had reach.
It's every time the same thing now; 2016 started: "There's no way they'll ever make it through 2016.", 2017 is around the corner "There' no way they'll ever make it through 2017."... And the fear mongering that the apocalypse is just around the corner continues. =/
Reminds me that only during the course of SC's development the world was supposed to end several times by now. Ain't we survivors!
CIG is now clocking in at employee costs of around $40 mil a year right now.
And you say that like that comes from accurate information not based on speculation...
In any way running something of this scale and that kept growing can't be cheap, though SC this year is shaping up to collect around as most funding as last year, and last year was already the record of funding they had reach.
It's every time the same thing now; 2016 started: "There's no way they'll ever make it through 2016.", 2017 is around the corner "There' no way they'll ever make it through 2017."... And the fear mongering that the apocalypse is just around the corner continues. =/
Reminds me that only during the course of SC's development the world was supposed to end several times by now. Ain't we survivors!
I'm pretty sure Chris said it costs 3 mil a month.
CIG is now clocking in at employee costs of around $40 mil a year right now.
And you say that like that comes from accurate information not based on speculation...
In any way running something of this scale and that kept growing can't be cheap, though SC this year is shaping up to collect around as most funding as last year, and last year was already the record of funding they had reach.
It's every time the same thing now; 2016 started: "There's no way they'll ever make it through 2016.", 2017 is around the corner "There' no way they'll ever make it through 2017."... And the fear mongering that the apocalypse is just around the corner continues. =/
Reminds me that only during the course of SC's development the world was supposed to end several times by now. Ain't we survivors!
That number comes from general working estimates via devs working on present day mmos. Employee per month costs generalized across the genre. Hell, even Erillion agrees with it. But you have to argue, because....?
I'm amazed that folks can read the black and white of mismanagement and bad decisions in CIGs past, and conclude that everything will run fine from now on. They are running a red queen's race, and if they can't continue to increase their fund-raising cash shop ways to match their increased expenditure, they will eventually fall down.
Personally I will take them at their word that they've spent around 2/3rds of the money they've raised so far. So you better buy some more ships....
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
I'm pretty sure Chris said it costs 3 mil a month.
2, 3M as one example yeah. Though as he also said, if SC does not get as much funding and they have to use their money reserves he'd simply scale down the amount of people working on it. So while we see the current growth it's not transpiring financial struggles, if such was happening we all know someone would already have thrown a parade.
Arglebargle said: That number comes from general working estimates via devs working on present day mmos. Employee per month costs generalized across the genre. Hell, even Erillion agrees with it. But you have to argue, because....?
Personally I will take them at their word that they've spent around 2/3rds of the money they've raised so far. So you better buy some more ships....
Because it still isn't any accurate info; it falls upon the assumption of a lot of factors we never have really had any look at, standards for wages, outsourcing amount and its cost, and so on.
End of the day I don't buy ships over the one I have, but I won't judge those who do, anyone who doesn't want the failure or harm of the project wouldn't do so.
So can someone clear something up for me? For all these ships that run in the $200-$700 real world money range, are they obtainable in game? Is there any way for us to get these amazing ships without spending any further real world money? Seems to me, if there's no way, this game is dead to me.
Every ship and item can be obtained in game with in game money. You do not need to spend more Real World money than for a basic package (currently 54 $, it was as low as 20 $ in the past). That is (and always has been) official policy in Star Citizen.
They have given refunds after insane pressure and threats, it's taken people months to get their refund, I would hardly call that acting voluntarily. They also write really stupid crap trying to justify their progress, guilt trip or dissuade people by claiming getting a refund is like taking paychecks back from employees etc.
I personally know of a case of a refund in my circle of friends from 2014 where no "insane pressure or threats" were involved or necessary. CIG told my friend to reconsider and asked for the reason for the refund request. The reason was given in a second mail (--> sudden unexpected unemployment) and the refund was processed positively and without a fuss.
Do not treat CS people like shit and they will be nice and helpful. Do not spend hundreds of playtime hours in a game you claim to "not like" .... and then expect a refund.
Have fun
2014 LOL
Do you feel disappointed or concerned about SC? You sure seem to white knight it all the time.
Neither.
I would have liked to see more about SQ42 at CitizenCon, but understand the reasons why they did not.
My personal estimate for completion since the Kickstarter days was approx. 5 years or end of 2017. Currently that estimate still seems realistic. IMHO they should take as much time as necessary to truely make this a groundbreaking innovative game.
They have given refunds after insane pressure and threats, it's taken people months to get their refund, I would hardly call that acting voluntarily. They also write really stupid crap trying to justify their progress, guilt trip or dissuade people by claiming getting a refund is like taking paychecks back from employees etc.
I personally know of a case of a refund in my circle of friends from 2014 where no "insane pressure or threats" were involved or necessary. CIG told my friend to reconsider and asked for the reason for the refund request. The reason was given in a second mail (--> sudden unexpected unemployment) and the refund was processed positively and without a fuss.
Do not treat CS people like shit and they will be nice and helpful. Do not spend hundreds of playtime hours in a game you claim to "not like" .... and then expect a refund.
Have fun
That's a fair point, they did have a much more reasonable approach to refunds early on. However, as time has gone on, trying to get a refund has become quite a bit harder and long-winded for a lot of people, often requiring multiple letters of communication.
Show me an official quote from the RSI website that say it is delayed indefinately between July 2015 and December of 2015 when the no refund policy was put in place. If you cant, admit you are wrong.
They had NOT said it, who said it was the MEDIA, that was the response more to how the media was portraying it, was pretty much that. I am not wrong on what I said, and it isn't even related to SM:
You attempt to discredit the whole situation, that was the biggest fear mongering campaign i ever saw on the internet as irrelevant, on taking DS seriously, remember how many large media websites made articles of his statements about the imminent "apocalypse"? (before they realized he's full of...) and obviously, the whole escapist situation.
That IS my point, you're just attempting to go through the assumption that the whole situation last year is irrelevant, solely to backup and lock the reason to refunds to be mostly about SM's delay; and that Sir, is what is your opinion.
LOL, you said this:
As for the before bad news, that is a lie; SM had already faced
the indefinite delay... was all before the
refund window had "closed", that was at December last year.
Which states that the indefinite delay of Star Marine had been told to us before the December no refund policy change. I showed that was not from CIG and that CIG in fact officially told us that was NOT TRUE and it was NOT delayed which PROVES MY POINT that the bad news did not come to us OFFICIALLY until AFTER the no refund policy change.
You can keep trying to cloud the issue by arguing the seriousness of Derek Smarts campaign against Chris Roberts or bringing up the Escapist article which WERE NOT things I had mentioned but everyone reading this can see you were wrong and the majority of the bad news about the games development OFFICIALLY came AFTER the December 2015 no refund policy change.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
You can keep trying to cloud the issue by arguing the seriousness of Derek Smarts campaign against Chris Roberts or bringing up the Escapist article which WERE NOT things I had mentioned but everyone reading this can see you were wrong and the majority of the bad news about the games development OFFICIALLY came AFTER the December 2015 no refund policy change.
You are focusing on specific points to make the point that is the SM delay and the TOS change was what would have triggered wishes for most of refunds, and not that most of who wanted them got them (or had the oportunity to) before, that is what is NOT the fact, that is what is your OPINION. End of the day it's just that, the company clearly had one open policy towards refunds during the big controversy it faced, people who wanted one back and went after it did so. As you have no way to prove that it was those 2 points that would then be what triggered wishes for a refund of any "majority" that did or wanted so.
And as it's very well visible as most of the people around who got refunds requested and granted were them mostly during last year; meaning they did not look for refunds after, yet before the timeframe of the events you mentioned.
You are also completely focusing on this points to spin as irrelevant the whole situation last year, because it was not.. "official"? Don't remember how strong the refunds drama was going last year? Don't you remember CIG reacting to the refunds on the media?
You can keep trying to cloud the issue by arguing the seriousness of Derek Smarts campaign against Chris Roberts or bringing up the Escapist article which WERE NOT things I had mentioned but everyone reading this can see you were wrong and the majority of the bad news about the games development OFFICIALLY came AFTER the December 2015 no refund policy change.
You are focusing on specific points to make the point that is the SM delay and the TOS change was what would have triggered wishes for most of refunds, and not that most of who wanted them got them (or had the oportunity to) before, that is what is NOT the fact, that is what is your OPINION. End of the day it's just that, the company clearly had one open policy towards refunds during the big controversy it faced, people who wanted one back and went after it did so. As you have no way to prove that it was those 2 points that would then be what triggered wishes for a refund of any "majority" that did or wanted so.
And as it's very well visible as most of the people around who got refunds requested and granted were them mostly during last year; meaning they did not look for refunds after, yet before the timeframe of the points you made.
Wow, twist words much?
I simply made a point that the majority of the bad news we officially received about the game came AFTER the no refund policy was put in place. You tried to dispute that by bringing up Derek Smart and the Escapist, its funny how that always seems to be the defense. I used official sources to prove my point and you gave us opinions and totally irrelevant points to defend your position.
Of course, you can not help but keep putting your foot in your mouth. You just said:
And as it's very well visible as most of the people around who got
refunds requested and granted were them mostly during last year; meaning
they did not look for refunds after, yet before the timeframe of the
points you made.
What is your point with that? You do realize that last year there was no official "no refund" policy right? Of course people got refunds last year and only a small few got them this year silly, CIG changed their policy to no refunds at the end of 2015. I see no relevance to that statement and I have no idea how you could even think for a moment that it justifies your point.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
What is your point with that? You do realize that last year there was no official "no refund" policy right? Of course people got refunds last year and only a small few got them this year silly, CIG changed their policy to no refunds at the end of 2015. I see no relevance to that statement and I have no idea how you could even think for a moment that it justifies your point.
As it falls on speculate how many people did got, did want them from last to this year, you pointed 2 situations but yet there's no factual data to show that most of the people who wanted them, wouldn't haven't already gotten them last year and how much actually asked for them during this year, after the timeframes of the events you mentioned.
No refunds for crowd funding, you should know that going in, its basically a donation to develop a game you want to play that might or might not ever get made.
Its not a pre-order for a game.
Taxes are being charged so it's a pre order
A lot of goods and service taxes around the globe, in Canada you would have to pay tax. I don't think we can call Crowdfunding a non-profit or a registered charity. I don't believe crowdfunding for a consumer product would meet the criteria.
You don't pay tax on a charitable donation, you can claim it on your tax filing to maybe get a refund but that's something different.
If I remember correctly KS doesn't charge tax on your pledge either. You pledge 100 and that's what is deducted but I could be wrong since it's been a while since I crowdfunded something.
CIG's store charges you tax which would qualify it as a consumer good. Since it isn't released yet it would fall under pre order and therefore eligible for a refund at any time
If I remember correctly KS doesn't charge tax on your pledge either. You pledge 100 and that's what is deducted but I could be wrong since it's been a while since I crowdfunded something.
CIG's store charges you tax which would qualify it as a consumer good. Since it isn't released yet it would fall under pre order and therefore eligible for a refund at any time
Good old Uncle Sam does not gives a pass to Crowdfund, your other post rather implies Kickstarter as a pre-order platform because taxes on the income are involved.
"Yet, in the months since closing the campaign, I've come face-to-face with the hidden costs of running a Kicktarter campaign. After Kickstarter and Amazon take their share (collectively about 8%), you pay for fulfillment of the prizes you've offered (say, 10% to 15%) and income tax on the total (up to 44% depending on the total funds raised and your tax bracket!) you as a creator retain more like 38% - 82% of the total you've raised. Not exactly free money."
If I remember correctly KS doesn't charge tax on your pledge either. You pledge 100 and that's what is deducted but I could be wrong since it's been a while since I crowdfunded something.
CIG's store charges you tax which would qualify it as a consumer good. Since it isn't released yet it would fall under pre order and therefore eligible for a refund at any time
Good old Uncle Sam does not gives a pass to Crowdfund, your other post rather implies Kickstarter as a pre-order platform because taxes on the income are involved.
"Yet, in the months since closing the campaign, I've come face-to-face with the hidden costs of running a Kicktarter campaign. After Kickstarter and Amazon take their share (collectively about 8%), you pay for fulfillment of the prizes you've offered (say, 10% to 15%) and income tax on the total (up to 44% depending on the total funds raised and your tax bracket!) you as a creator retain more like 38% - 82% of the total you've raised. Not exactly free money."
You do realize I'm talking about the backers and not the project creators right?
You do realize I'm talking about the backers and not the project creators right?
The income taxes are still there, for example we on CIG's store pay the VAT tax when pledging for anything. So do VAT registered uk-based KS creators charge it depending on the amount of money involved, so it seems crowdfunding is not getting a pass on taxes.
Comments
I dont think anyone took Derek Smart and his "crashing in 90 days" or the Escapist article seriously and I never mentioned those as "bad news". You brought those up to help defend your false position. Star Marine faced delays in 2015 and there was even a false story that circulated during the summer of 2015 that said Chris Roberts reported it was delayed indefinitely but that story originated due to false information and you will not find an actual quote from Chris Roberts saying that during the summer of 2015. What you will find is Ben Lesnick responding to that story saying:
"First on the list is the statement that Star Marine has been "delayed indefinitely," which he said is not the same thing as not having a release date. "'Delayed indefinitely' is a games industry PR term for ‘cancelled.’ Anyone (and apparently this is a great many people) reading clickbait headlines will believe we’ve canceled Star Marine. This is not the case, to the point that it implies the absolute opposite of what’s actually happening,"
Source: http://www.pcgamer.com/cloud-imperium-games-addresses-star-citizen-concerns/
Mr. Lesnick then went on to say this:
"The weekly updates from the team will give you a better idea [of what's happening], but the short story is that Star Marine was not ready for launch when we had hoped (and planned). We spent several weeks expecting that resolving a then-current crop of blockers would allow a PTU publish. When this didn’t happen, we conducted a full review of the module lead by our top technical folks from around the company. What they determined was what you read in Chris’ letter two weeks ago: we need to rebuild several ‘boring’ backend pieces and we need to fix serious animation issues before there would be any benefit to a release."
The delay is a matter of "weeks and not months/years/decades,"Source: (same as above but you can also find this on the official RSI website)
It was not until January of 2016 that Chris came out and said Star Marine "was in there" and let the whole world know that all the stuff they used in their marketing for 2015 was bullcrap and at that point we were a month past the "No Refund" announcement.
Are a few refunds happening, yes. If you have a government agency or other official organization contact CIG on your behalf. You make it sound like CIG is giving refunds to anyone who asks for it and that is not the case by a long shot.
One thing I can say about Erillion is that he sticks to the facts...
The indefinite delay came from SM not having any stated release date (when it's said officially when it's ready and nothing else), after several delays. So that the terminology I don't think it even came from CIG, just what the media/etc made of it.
Your spinning far too much to make up the several months refund window last year was somehow irrelevant and was not during the biggest controversy times the project had ever faced... Because of what CR said on January about SM? What makes it then YOUR opinion, NOT the fact.
Show me an official quote from the RSI website that say it is delayed indefinately between July 2015 and December of 2015 when the no refund policy was put in place. If you cant, admit you are wrong.
You attempt to discredit the whole situation, that was the biggest fear mongering campaign i ever saw on the internet as irrelevant, on taking DS seriously, remember how many large media websites made articles of his statements about the imminent "apocalypse"? (before they realized he's full of...) and obviously, the whole escapist situation.
That IS my point, you're just attempting to go through the assumption that the whole situation last year is irrelevant, solely to backup and lock the reason to refunds to be mostly about SM's delay; and that Sir, is what is your opinion.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
In any way running something of this scale and that kept growing can't be cheap, though SC this year is shaping up to collect around as most funding as last year, and last year was already the record of funding they had reach.
It's every time the same thing now; 2016 started: "There's no way they'll ever make it through 2016.", 2017 is around the corner "There' no way they'll ever make it through 2017."... And the fear mongering that the apocalypse is just around the corner continues. =/
Reminds me that only during the course of SC's development the world was supposed to end several times by now. Ain't we survivors!
That number comes from general working estimates via devs working on present day mmos. Employee per month costs generalized across the genre. Hell, even Erillion agrees with it. But you have to argue, because....?
I'm amazed that folks can read the black and white of mismanagement and bad decisions in CIGs past, and conclude that everything will run fine from now on. They are running a red queen's race, and if they can't continue to increase their fund-raising cash shop ways to match their increased expenditure, they will eventually fall down.
Personally I will take them at their word that they've spent around 2/3rds of the money they've raised so far. So you better buy some more ships....
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Because it still isn't any accurate info; it falls upon the assumption of a lot of factors we never have really had any look at, standards for wages, outsourcing amount and its cost, and so on.
End of the day I don't buy ships over the one I have, but I won't judge those who do, anyone who doesn't want the failure or harm of the project wouldn't do so.
Have fun
I would have liked to see more about SQ42 at CitizenCon, but understand the reasons why they did not.
My personal estimate for completion since the Kickstarter days was approx. 5 years or end of 2017. Currently that estimate still seems realistic. IMHO they should take as much time as necessary to truely make this a groundbreaking innovative game.
Have fun
That's a fair point, they did have a much more reasonable approach to refunds early on.
However, as time has gone on, trying to get a refund has become quite a bit harder and long-winded for a lot of people, often requiring multiple letters of communication.
Fully agree on the CS and playtime comment.
As for the before bad news, that is a lie; SM had already faced the indefinite delay... was all before the refund window had "closed", that was at December last year.
Which states that the indefinite delay of Star Marine had been told to us before the December no refund policy change. I showed that was not from CIG and that CIG in fact officially told us that was NOT TRUE and it was NOT delayed which PROVES MY POINT that the bad news did not come to us OFFICIALLY until AFTER the no refund policy change.
You can keep trying to cloud the issue by arguing the seriousness of Derek Smarts campaign against Chris Roberts or bringing up the Escapist article which WERE NOT things I had mentioned but everyone reading this can see you were wrong and the majority of the bad news about the games development OFFICIALLY came AFTER the December 2015 no refund policy change.
And as it's very well visible as most of the people around who got refunds requested and granted were them mostly during last year; meaning they did not look for refunds after, yet before the timeframe of the events you mentioned.
You are also completely focusing on this points to spin as irrelevant the whole situation last year, because it was not.. "official"? Don't remember how strong the refunds drama was going last year? Don't you remember CIG reacting to the refunds on the media?
I simply made a point that the majority of the bad news we officially received about the game came AFTER the no refund policy was put in place. You tried to dispute that by bringing up Derek Smart and the Escapist, its funny how that always seems to be the defense. I used official sources to prove my point and you gave us opinions and totally irrelevant points to defend your position.
Of course, you can not help but keep putting your foot in your mouth. You just said:
And as it's very well visible as most of the people around who got refunds requested and granted were them mostly during last year; meaning they did not look for refunds after, yet before the timeframe of the points you made.
What is your point with that? You do realize that last year there was no official "no refund" policy right? Of course people got refunds last year and only a small few got them this year silly, CIG changed their policy to no refunds at the end of 2015. I see no relevance to that statement and I have no idea how you could even think for a moment that it justifies your point.
Let's talk about the OP!
After a year of hard work, we saw a high fidelity space worm.
Look at the beauty!
My funding made the teeth in the right corner happen. You'll thank me for that later.
EXCUSE ME, we all crowdfunded that teeth! Don't ya take all the credit!
I haven't noticed the detail on the player's helmet before lol, ew.
Have fun
If I remember correctly KS doesn't charge tax on your pledge either. You pledge 100 and that's what is deducted but I could be wrong since it's been a while since I crowdfunded something.
CIG's store charges you tax which would qualify it as a consumer good. Since it isn't released yet it would fall under pre order and therefore eligible for a refund at any time
Here's one article talking about this...
http://nofilmschool.com/2014/04/crowdfunding-taxes-kick-starters-hidden-bite-stop-the-bleeding
"Yet, in the months since closing the campaign, I've come face-to-face with the hidden costs of running a Kicktarter campaign. After Kickstarter and Amazon take their share (collectively about 8%), you pay for fulfillment of the prizes you've offered (say, 10% to 15%) and income tax on the total (up to 44% depending on the total funds raised and your tax bracket!) you as a creator retain more like 38% - 82% of the total you've raised. Not exactly free money."