The reason why we'll get more P2W before we get less P2W

CrazKanuk

A new study on microtransactions by NPD Group found that about 1/3 of the US gaming population (based on 10k surveyed) has purchased  some sort of extra content in the last 3 months. So, so much more the shitty fraction of a percentage of conversions. Maybe just in high-priced mobile games? 

If that doesn't blow your mind, the part that will really make you cringe is the fact that nearly 80% of people said they would consider spending money to get stuff like weapons or power-ups. Yet, 70% of games felt that the P2W aspect of microtransactions was "unfortunate"...... as they sharpened the blade on their +12 Sword or Reckoning (on sale now for only $9.99). 

I didn't read the actual report, but I concluded, based on the article, that we'll probably see more P2W before we see less, and it doesn't really seem like the microtransactions are hurting games, really.

DrDread74

The concept appeals to the masses. MOST people are into INTO games like we all are they are into games about as much as you are into watching sports (blows your mind right?). Mobile gaming is just something they do for casual fun and they don't mind throwing some money at it. You blow $20+ just to go watch a movie, not even a good one, there's nothing wrong with spending $5 on a mobile game you're enjoying so you can "win" faster at it. Winning is fun and people play games just for fun. The pay to win doesn't really matter unless its competitive and multiplayer.

Sovrath

CrazKanuk said:

A new study on microtransactions by NPD Group found that about 1/3 of the US gaming population (based on 10k surveyed) has purchased  some sort of extra content in the last 3 months. So, so much more the shitty fraction of a percentage of conversions. Maybe just in high-priced mobile games? 

If that doesn't blow your mind, the part that will really make you cringe is the fact that nearly 80% of people said they would consider spending money to get stuff like weapons or power-ups. Yet, 70% of games felt that the P2W aspect of microtransactions was "unfortunate"...... as they sharpened the blade on their +12 Sword or Reckoning (on sale now for only $9.99). 

I didn't read the actual report, but I concluded, based on the article, that we'll probably see more P2W before we see less, and it doesn't really seem like the microtransactions are hurting games, really.

Doesn't surprise me. Forums are not a great way to measure the player base. They are filled with passionate, outspoken people who don't really represent the average player.

sayuu

CrazKanuk said:

I didn't read the actual report, but I concluded . . .

I'm so happy that you did the proper research on a topic before posting about it. . 

Albatroes

I love these things because they try to apply science as to why the general masses are either stupid, impatient, or both.

To simply, micro-transactions of any sort will exist because people are either one of those things or both. The latest Deus Ex is a perfect example and it wont surprise me that the same level will be in FFXV since decisions like that always fall to the publisher and not the developer.

cheyane

Probably single player mobile games attract more micro transactions for power ups and those cash shop items.

CrazKanuk

sayuu said:

CrazKanuk said:

I didn't read the actual report, but I concluded . . .

I'm so happy that you did the proper research on a topic before posting about it. . 

Lol, I like you...... I actually saw you post on here before. I'm definitely a data guy, and I think you're similar. So I get it. However, honestly, I WOULD have done more but I'm trying to cut down on wasting time explaining logical stuff to people on forums. You can probably sympathize. If not, give it a couple thousand posts  

CrazKanuk

Sovrath said:

CrazKanuk said:

A new study on microtransactions by NPD Group found that about 1/3 of the US gaming population (based on 10k surveyed) has purchased  some sort of extra content in the last 3 months. So, so much more the shitty fraction of a percentage of conversions. Maybe just in high-priced mobile games? 

If that doesn't blow your mind, the part that will really make you cringe is the fact that nearly 80% of people said they would consider spending money to get stuff like weapons or power-ups. Yet, 70% of games felt that the P2W aspect of microtransactions was "unfortunate"...... as they sharpened the blade on their +12 Sword or Reckoning (on sale now for only $9.99). 

I didn't read the actual report, but I concluded, based on the article, that we'll probably see more P2W before we see less, and it doesn't really seem like the microtransactions are hurting games, really.

Doesn't surprise me. Forums are not a great way to measure the player base. They are filled with passionate, outspoken people who don't really represent the average player.

What I found crazy was, apparently, people were more "ok" with microtransactions than DLC. That's nuts to me. 

Shaigh

CrazKanuk said:

A new study on microtransactions by NPD Group found that about 1/3 of the US gaming population (based on 10k surveyed) has purchased  some sort of extra content in the last 3 months. So, so much more the shitty fraction of a percentage of conversions. Maybe just in high-priced mobile games? 

The first sentence is wrong, the study says 28% which isn't close to 1/3.. The study also divide the number into people that bought microtransactions and the ones that bought content dlc, 23% bought microtransactions, 16% bought content DLC.

Still find it bad that 23% ended up buying microtransactions. No wonder we constantly get that garbage in full priced games.

CrazKanuk

Shaigh said:

CrazKanuk said:

A new study on microtransactions by NPD Group found that about 1/3 of the US gaming population (based on 10k surveyed) has purchased  some sort of extra content in the last 3 months. So, so much more the shitty fraction of a percentage of conversions. Maybe just in high-priced mobile games? 

The first sentence is wrong, the study says 28% which isn't 1/3. The study also divide the number into people that bought microtransactions and the ones that bought content dlc, 23% bought microtransactions, 16% bought content DLC.

Still find it bad that 23% ended up buying microtransactions. No wonder we constantly get that garbage in full priced games.

True, it is more like 1/4. My bad. 

That being said, I kind of have the same sentiment as you. I don't really have a problem with microtransactions as much as I do with the idea of selling gear or things like permanent power-ups. That's the part that was more scary than anything, in my opinion. 

Kyleran

28% purchased DLC or MTs. 61% lied and actually did buy something but said they didn't 8% actually didnt buy anything 3% went "wut?"

Shaigh

CrazKanuk said:

Shaigh said:

CrazKanuk said:

A new study on microtransactions by NPD Group found that about 1/3 of the US gaming population (based on 10k surveyed) has purchased  some sort of extra content in the last 3 months. So, so much more the shitty fraction of a percentage of conversions. Maybe just in high-priced mobile games? 

The first sentence is wrong, the study says 28% which isn't 1/3. The study also divide the number into people that bought microtransactions and the ones that bought content dlc, 23% bought microtransactions, 16% bought content DLC.

Still find it bad that 23% ended up buying microtransactions. No wonder we constantly get that garbage in full priced games.

True, it is more like 1/4. My bad. 

That being said, I kind of have the same sentiment as you. I don't really have a problem with microtransactions as much as I do with the idea of selling gear or things like permanent power-ups. That's the part that was more scary than anything, in my opinion. 

I do think the attitude is really different when it comes to PC and console games compared to mobile games, its very different when you pay full price for a game compared to a f2p game. Additionally, while I hate powerups and gears sold as microtransactions its obvious many don't view the selling of gear as p2w if you can get it inside the game.

However, what really strikes me is that 68% find p2w unfortunate, which implies that 32% are totally fine with p2w-aspects. That's a huge amount of people that will forgive p2w.

Kyleran

Shaigh said:

CrazKanuk said:

Shaigh said:

CrazKanuk said:

A new study on microtransactions by NPD Group found that about 1/3 of the US gaming population (based on 10k surveyed) has purchased  some sort of extra content in the last 3 months. So, so much more the shitty fraction of a percentage of conversions. Maybe just in high-priced mobile games? 

The first sentence is wrong, the study says 28% which isn't 1/3. The study also divide the number into people that bought microtransactions and the ones that bought content dlc, 23% bought microtransactions, 16% bought content DLC.

Still find it bad that 23% ended up buying microtransactions. No wonder we constantly get that garbage in full priced games.

True, it is more like 1/4. My bad. 

That being said, I kind of have the same sentiment as you. I don't really have a problem with microtransactions as much as I do with the idea of selling gear or things like permanent power-ups. That's the part that was more scary than anything, in my opinion. 

I do think the attitude is really different when it comes to PC and console games compared to mobile games, its very different when you pay full price for a game compared to a f2p game. Additionally, while I hate powerups and gears sold as microtransactions its obvious many don't view the selling of gear as p2w if you can get it inside the game.

However, what really strikes me is that 68% find p2w unfortunate, which implies that 32% are totally fine with p2w-aspects. That's a huge amount of people that will forgive p2w.

"Unfortunate" does not always mean "won't be playing"

Likely many more will forgive P2A than you think.

azarhal

CrazKanuk said:

Sovrath said:

CrazKanuk said:

A new study on microtransactions by NPD Group found that about 1/3 of the US gaming population (based on 10k surveyed) has purchased  some sort of extra content in the last 3 months. So, so much more the shitty fraction of a percentage of conversions. Maybe just in high-priced mobile games? 

If that doesn't blow your mind, the part that will really make you cringe is the fact that nearly 80% of people said they would consider spending money to get stuff like weapons or power-ups. Yet, 70% of games felt that the P2W aspect of microtransactions was "unfortunate"...... as they sharpened the blade on their +12 Sword or Reckoning (on sale now for only $9.99). 

I didn't read the actual report, but I concluded, based on the article, that we'll probably see more P2W before we see less, and it doesn't really seem like the microtransactions are hurting games, really.

Doesn't surprise me. Forums are not a great way to measure the player base. They are filled with passionate, outspoken people who don't really represent the average player.

What I found crazy was, apparently, people were more "ok" with microtransactions than DLC. That's nuts to me. 

I personally don't find that surprising. Microtransaction were on mobile games from day ones, while DLCs are mostly a Consoles/PC games things and those platforms didn't start with these type of monetizations.

Loke666

DrDread74 said:

The concept appeals to the masses. MOST people are into INTO games like we all are they are into games about as much as you are into watching sports (blows your mind right?). Mobile gaming is just something they do for casual fun and they don't mind throwing some money at it. You blow $20+ just to go watch a movie, not even a good one, there's nothing wrong with spending $5 on a mobile game you're enjoying so you can "win" faster at it. Winning is fun and people play games just for fun. The pay to win doesn't really matter unless its competitive and multiplayer.

I don't think the price is the real problem  with P2Win. No matter if we are talking cents or tens of thousands of dollars the idea that you pay real money to buy ingame advantages is just wrong. 

Now, bundle up some content and sell it as an expansion that is fine but selling specific items to players that havn't deserved them takes away a lot of the main points of the game.

There is a competitive side in MMOs, even if PvE only game. We do compete with the cool gear we have, our builds and maybe even with other stuff, like housing, mounts and so on. Working to get that stuff is a very important factor of what makes a MMO fun. If you sell all that stuff there is no real reason to continue playing.

I do know a few whales and they are all bungee players, they start a game, play a few weeks while buying lots of crap and then they tire and quit. That is a fast and easy income for devs but after a while the whales have moved on and many none whales either don't start at all or leave soon when they notice that the publisher is trying to rob them. Pay2win games tend to do well at first but then not so good.

A successful MMO must both be fun and slowly portion out new content and loot to the players as they play long term. That is what made Wow and EQ the successes they were. Now you get loads of stuff in the beginning but after a short while you either have to buy stuff for real money or you will repeat a few things over and over in hope of getting a few rare drops, there really isn't much else to do besides a bit arena play and maybe some battlegrounds. That is not fun and pl0ayers leave.

Pay2win is not something that is a longterm success. No pay2win game will ever earn the money Wow did  or even close, long term fun will earn far more money in the end. Wow have forgotten about how to pace the content since and is a poorer game because of it but if it ever became really Pay2win that would be the end of it in a rather short time.

Shaigh

Loke666 said:

Pay2win is not something that is a longterm success. No pay2win game will ever earn the money Wow did  or even close, long term fun will earn far more money in the end. Wow have forgotten about how to pace the content since and is a poorer game because of it but if it ever became really Pay2win that would be the end of it in a rather short time.

If we are speaking of online games World of Tanks have been blatantly p2w with its gold ammo and its one of the top earners. GTA online makes a huge amount of money on selling currency. If we are speaking of gaming in general cardgames are the most blatantly P2W games you can find and magic the gathering outdates the whole mmorpg genre. Hearthstone is a big success even if its P2W.

As long as P2W doesn't ruin the fun for too many people you can earn a lot of money by being P2W.

goboygo

Cash shops and micro transactions has taken the one little magic piece out of 95 % MMO's still running. What used to be anyone, no matter how old or how young, how rich or how poor, could achieve exactly the same thing by putting the same amount of time in.  It gave MMO's that magic spell effect, you saw someone with something awesome and you went wow where did you get that, they would tell you, then later the realization of how hard that player worked to get it sets in and you either set out to do it yourself or you settle for something lesser, there was no other option.  Only the top achievers in MMO's had the best items.

Today?  Pffff everything is based on how much money you care to spend to accelerate an item upgrade system that's designed to drive you crazy with failure until you start paying, or how you manipulate the games RMT currency exchange market against itself.  Or if your basically insane you dedicated a block of hours that most mortals couldn't stomach to achieve something.  Time sinks that make WoW's end game look like child's play.

I can count on one hand the MMO's that arent taking this route, and a couple of indies developing games that I hope arent based on the cash shop model.

And now you've got company's like SE selling 60 dollar AAA singleplayer games with cash shops.  So I agree, its going to get worse before it gets better.

Lets face it the simple days of in game effort achieves in game rewards for the price of admission  are for now toast.

But this is EXACTLY what people asked for.

MasoodVoon

I don't view it as pay to win. I view it as super casual & introductory for those who don't pay. Those who do pay are supporting the studios who provide the content in appreciation and recompense for the cost incurred creating the product. It's sad that not everyone can afford to pay for the full suite of features in a game but that's life. There are consequences to not paying for services rendered and it's up to the consumer to decide if they are spending too much money or not.

BarbieBoy

Well my viewpoint on this matter is that it's not about more and more people are becoming more and more lazy inn terms of farming and raiding because this consumes a lot of time. And as they say time is priceless. So instead of farming all night for an upgrade item or jewel I'd rather buy diamonds in Global MU Origin then use that in-game currency in buying upgrade materials. So I can use my extra time to have a dinner with my lovely wife, watch a movie with her and walk the dog afterwards. Cheers mate !!!!

Furh79

P2W is a myth in most successful mmos that have cash shops today.  Swtor, lotro, ESO even WoW have nothing you can buy in their shops that make you win or give you an advantage.  Sorry that guy who got a cool outfit from the shop doesn't have an advantage over me...and never will.

Its good to see the OP really dug in and did some research before creating a thread about it...he may have a calling to be a journalist because that's pretty much how today's journalism works. 

cheyane

Microtransactions seems to have targeted the parts of a game that require time investment in grinding. Perhaps removing the grind removes the need for microtransactions. However it is a the main gameplay ingredient that game developers need in place to ensure longevity and money spent.

Don't see this going away any time soon. I also think that describing people as lazy just because they find grinding a pointedly enormous waste of time which it is btw is not going to suddenly make people change their minds about buying their way through the grind. I think it is mechanic rather than the purchase that is to blame.

holdenhamlet

cheyane said:

Probably single player mobile games attract more micro transactions for power ups and those cash shop items.

Yep.  I think they very clearly work in mobile games.  One could speculate as to why, but I don't see them as being as successful in pc/console games, at least not p2w items.  Players seem totally fine with cosmetic extras, but there is always a backlash when p2w items are implemented in pc/console games.

[Deleted User]

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Konfess

@Loke666, the main point of the game is to make money.  Selling the consumer, anything they want is the main point of the transaction and the product. 

Those who hate P2W, think some advantage THEY have over others is being bought and sold or taken away.  The idea that THEY own an advantage over customers or a company and its product is ludicrous.

Video games sell virtual goods and services.  In the real world competitors often go without basic equipment and advantages in training held by those with money to pay for them.  That we shouldn't expect the same in the virtual world as we do in the real world is pathetic...

FlyByKnight

The temptation of making money from peoples guilty desires is too much for these developers.

It's Dragon sickness. They see the pot of gold and can't resist. It changes them. Very few developers and publishers can fight the urge.

Konfess

@cheyane, The need for microtransactions is making money and paying bills, it is not grind.  Grind was created as an alternative to P2W, without it we are back to P2W.  Cosmetic is not an alternative to P2W, it's an alternative to making money.