TLDR, but pen and paper Dungeons and Dragons created the trinity of reliance of other group members to succeed...
I think cave men created that. Except it wasn't a trinity. Just like D&D had more than three roles.
Riddle me this, if the trinity is a dumbed down version of something else (put into 3 roles rather than more) how is it an original creation to begin with?
in simple terms... If the 1/2lb pound burger is a new invention, does that make the 1/4lb burger another new invention?
The trinity isn't an object it's a style of play. Simplifying the complex nature of character interaction seen in P&Ps into what we now call the trinity constitutes a meaningful change. Not necessarily good, but meaningful.
Think about American football and American football positions. There are quite a few of them. Tackles, quarterbacks, guards, receivers etc. I don't expect you to understand football, I haven't thought about it much myself since I played it in high school but I'm sure you get the general idea.
Imagine if rather than having all these positions you were some how able to simplify it so you only needed three roles and you called this style of play the "trinity based formation".
Is it something new even though you took something away? Yes. It would be a very new concept to football. A completely new style of play.
To say it's not something new simply because there are positions in traditional football that bear some resemblance to the three hard / codified roles of this "trinity based formation" would be an utterly ridiculous assertion.
Now take that whole analogy and apply it to RPGs. That's exactly what happened.
It came from Everquest. There was 3 very strong classes that could easily find groups and they were called the holy trinity because of how powerfull they were. It was from this that the rest of the mmo world fell in line and decided to copy these 3 roles and make them necessary in gameplay.
Hmm, Everquest released 1999, Meridian 59 in 1996 and M59 still used trinity even if it was somewhat weaker then EQs. EQ was clearly very influenced by M59 who had a lot in common with it even if it was a far simpler game.
Trinity, basic quests, massive servers, guilds, sliders when you create your character and basic builds, M59 was the first with all that. It was the first game you would still recognize as a MMO even though one also could consider Neverwinter nights the grandfather with 50 players in the first online multiplayer game with graphics ever.
I did never play NWN but I did play M59 in '96 (I have to admit that I forgotten a lot about it though, it was a long time ago and I only played it a few months before my incredible slow modem made me insane. Didn't start out with MMOs again until 2001 when I got a good cable modem at 2mb/s).
Final Fantasy for nes was what created the trinity for me.
Grab a tank - Warrior
Dps - Black Belt or Black Mage
Healer - White Mage
Course this was back in 87. I'm sure if you look back even further you will find large groups of pen & paper dnd had their trinities as well.
So my answer is no, and it wasn't even called "Trinity" until millennials started playing.
In fact... MMORPGs (before WoW) was where I first started to see the trinity being no longer effective. I think back to archer parties in Lineage 2 in dvc. You needed:
A tank to hold the agro so nobody dies
A cc mage to sleep the surrounding mobs if it's too damage much for the tank to handle
A buffer, to keep the party having it's buffs up
A healer to heal as was needed (was easy to die in 1-2 hits if something went wrong)
and DPS
This is not something I would call a trinity and it was only after WoW came out, these roles start to diminish, and eventually came to the solo-play.
Prior to the start of the WOW era (aka before the decline of MMORPGs) the additional roles of crowd control, buffer, speeder, debuffer and sometimes even puller were every bit as vital as the "trinity"
Especially in a MMO like DAOC with its larger 8 man group design, you just didn't leave for the battleground until you filled most of these roles.
PVP especially required CC, buffers, healers, and speeders, tanks were just a heavily armored dps and last on the threat (kill list)
PVE was a bit different, tanks/off tanks were needed to hold aggro, CC was still extremely vital along with buffers and healers. (speeders not so much)
Interestingly enough, some caster pets could play the tank role in a basic small grind group, but they weren't anywhere near effective as say a Paladin who was the premier PVE puller/tank on the Alb side for PVE.
With the shrinking if group sizes and the elimination of specific support roles we ended up with "the trinity" in MMORPGs, but it didn't really start out that way.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It came from Everquest. There was 3 very strong classes that could easily find groups and they were called the holy trinity because of how powerfull they were. It was from this that the rest of the mmo world fell in line and decided to copy these 3 roles and make them necessary in gameplay.
Hmm, Everquest released 1999, Meridian 59 in 1996 and M59 still used trinity even if it was somewhat weaker then EQs. EQ was clearly very influenced by M59 who had a lot in common with it even if it was a far simpler game.
Trinity, basic quests, massive servers, guilds, sliders when you create your character and basic builds, M59 was the first with all that. It was the first game you would still recognize as a MMO even though one also could consider Neverwinter nights the grandfather with 50 players in the first online multiplayer game with graphics ever.
I did never play NWN but I did play M59 in '96 (I have to admit that I forgotten a lot about it though, it was a long time ago and I only played it a few months before my incredible slow modem made me insane. Didn't start out with MMOs again until 2001 when I got a good cable modem at 2mb/s).
This is a very interesting game. Honestly I have never heard of it either and you can play it on pc for free which is kinda cool.
Final Fantasy for nes was what created the trinity for me.
Grab a tank - Warrior
Dps - Black Belt or Black Mage
Healer - White Mage
Course this was back in 87. I'm sure if you look back even further you will find large groups of pen & paper dnd had their trinities as well.
So my answer is no, and it wasn't even called "Trinity" until millennials started playing.
In fact... MMORPGs (before WoW) was where I first started to see the trinity being no longer effective. I think back to archer parties in Lineage 2 in dvc. You needed:
A tank to hold the agro so nobody dies
A cc mage to sleep the surrounding mobs if it's too damage much for the tank to handle
A buffer, to keep the party having it's buffs up
A healer to heal as was needed (was easy to die in 1-2 hits if something went wrong)
and DPS
This is not something I would call a trinity and it was only after WoW came out, these roles start to diminish, and eventually came to the solo-play.
Prior to the start of the WOW era (aka before the decline of MMORPGs) the additional roles of crowd control, buffer, speeder, debuffer and sometimes even puller were every bit as vital as the "trinity"
Especially in a MMO like DAOC with its larger 8 man group design, you just didn't leave for the battleground until you filled most of these roles.
PVP especially required CC, buffers, healers, and speeders, tanks were just a heavily armored dps and last on the threat (kill list)
PVE was a bit different, tanks/off tanks were needed to hold aggro, CC was still extremely vital along with buffers and healers. (speeders not so much)
Interestingly enough, some caster pets could play the tank role in a basic small grind group, but they weren't anywhere near effective as say a Paladin who was the premier PVE puller/tank on the Alb side for PVE.
With the shrinking if group sizes and the elimination of specific support roles we ended up with "the trinity" in MMORPGs, but it didn't really start out that way.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/BartStewart/20090902/2908/An_Alternative_to_Aggro.php
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
Think about American football and American football positions. There are quite a few of them. Tackles, quarterbacks, guards, receivers etc. I don't expect you to understand football, I haven't thought about it much myself since I played it in high school but I'm sure you get the general idea.
Imagine if rather than having all these positions you were some how able to simplify it so you only needed three roles and you called this style of play the "trinity based formation".
Is it something new even though you took something away? Yes. It would be a very new concept to football. A completely new style of play.
To say it's not something new simply because there are positions in traditional football that bear some resemblance to the three hard / codified roles of this "trinity based formation" would be an utterly ridiculous assertion.
Now take that whole analogy and apply it to RPGs. That's exactly what happened.
Trinity, basic quests, massive servers, guilds, sliders when you create your character and basic builds, M59 was the first with all that. It was the first game you would still recognize as a MMO even though one also could consider Neverwinter nights the grandfather with 50 players in the first online multiplayer game with graphics ever.
I did never play NWN but I did play M59 in '96 (I have to admit that I forgotten a lot about it though, it was a long time ago and I only played it a few months before my incredible slow modem made me insane. Didn't start out with MMOs again until 2001 when I got a good cable modem at 2mb/s).
Especially in a MMO like DAOC with its larger 8 man group design, you just didn't leave for the battleground until you filled most of these roles.
PVP especially required CC, buffers, healers, and speeders, tanks were just a heavily armored dps and last on the threat (kill list)
PVE was a bit different, tanks/off tanks were needed to hold aggro, CC was still extremely vital along with buffers and healers. (speeders not so much)
Interestingly enough, some caster pets could play the tank role in a basic small grind group, but they weren't anywhere near effective as say a Paladin who was the premier PVE puller/tank on the Alb side for PVE.
With the shrinking if group sizes and the elimination of specific support roles we ended up with "the trinity" in MMORPGs, but it didn't really start out that way.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
http://www.meridian59.com/
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon