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UPDATED: Nost Team Makes Good On Threat To Release The Server Code - World of Warcraft - MMORPG.com

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  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    On the bright side.  Blizzard now has a scapegoat.   It would have been harshly criticized if Blizzard said they were not going to make a vanilla server.  They can now blame nost as the main reason they did not persue it.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • SvarcanumSvarcanum Member UncommonPosts: 425
    Have to say I wholeheartedly agree with the nostalrius course of action. All they are doing is making sure playing vanilla wow will be possible going forward. I don't see it as childish. Quite the opposite: a mature, well thought out and responsible reaction. You have to realize that the most important thing they are releasing is NOT the blizzard source code (that is available if you know where to look) but their own work on server tech etc.
  • kitaradkitarad Member LegendaryPosts: 8,177
    edited November 2016
    If anyone has the resources to make their lives hell it is Blizzard let's see what they do , perhaps they will do nothing . They need to lobby for laws that protect their rights better . I'm sure people can contribute to their defence fund.

    About reverse engineering have a look at this 
    https://www.eff.org/issues/coders/reverse-engineering-faq
    Post edited by kitarad on

  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,404
    SBFord said:
    Galadourn said:
    Again, Nost have done nothing to be prosecuted for. The code they are using is their code, reversed engineered. It's not Blizzard's.
    If Blizzard wants to take legal action, they'd have to move against all the players that use the vanilla WoW client.
    Perhaps, but every character, every location, every quest, every item, every story is not their "own" and is considered theft of intellectual property. 
    Yet in a delightful bit of irony people seem to continually ignore, every character, every location, every quest, every item, every story, is set in an Intellectual property that was "heavily inspired" meaning "completely ripped off" from the Games Workshops Warhammer IP. Blizzard wanted to make a Warhammer game but didn't want the headache of having to deal with Games Workshop. So they made a game that looked incredibly like Warhammer Fantasy, and then just called it something else. "How dare you guys steal our ideas ...uh... that we kinda stole from someone else." Pot meet fucking kettle.
    That will actually depend on the type of agreement Games Workshop had with Blizzard. If they had retained the right to their art and every creative piece of work in their initial efforts to create the Warhammer game then they have every right to use that intellectual property. However reverse engineering code isn't in the same vein and I think you know that.
    Garrus Signature
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,938
    SBFord said:
    Galadourn said:
    Again, Nost have done nothing to be prosecuted for. The code they are using is their code, reversed engineered. It's not Blizzard's.
    If Blizzard wants to take legal action, they'd have to move against all the players that use the vanilla WoW client.
    Perhaps, but every character, every location, every quest, every item, every story is not their "own" and is considered theft of intellectual property. 
    Yet in a delightful bit of irony people seem to continually ignore, every character, every location, every quest, every item, every story, is set in an Intellectual property that was "heavily inspired" meaning "completely ripped off" from the Games Workshops Warhammer IP. Blizzard wanted to make a Warhammer game but didn't want the headache of having to deal with Games Workshop. So they made a game that looked incredibly like Warhammer Fantasy, and then just called it something else. "How dare you guys steal our ideas ...uh... that we kinda stole from someone else." Pot meet fucking kettle.
    wouldn't that then be game workshop's business to challenge Blizzard on that? Maybe they did and settled out of court or maybe Blizzard offered a certain amount of money to them or maybe game workshop didn't care?


    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    cheyane said:
    SBFord said:
    Galadourn said:
    Again, Nost have done nothing to be prosecuted for. The code they are using is their code, reversed engineered. It's not Blizzard's.
    If Blizzard wants to take legal action, they'd have to move against all the players that use the vanilla WoW client.
    Perhaps, but every character, every location, every quest, every item, every story is not their "own" and is considered theft of intellectual property. 
    Yet in a delightful bit of irony people seem to continually ignore, every character, every location, every quest, every item, every story, is set in an Intellectual property that was "heavily inspired" meaning "completely ripped off" from the Games Workshops Warhammer IP. Blizzard wanted to make a Warhammer game but didn't want the headache of having to deal with Games Workshop. So they made a game that looked incredibly like Warhammer Fantasy, and then just called it something else. "How dare you guys steal our ideas ...uh... that we kinda stole from someone else." Pot meet fucking kettle.
    That will actually depend on the type of agreement Games Workshop had with Blizzard. If they had retained the right to their art and every creative piece of work in their initial efforts to create the Warhammer game then they have every right to use that intellectual property. However reverse engineering code isn't in the same vein and I think you know that.
    I don't think a lot of people really know just what reverse engineering is or how common it is. Every time you see a product similar to another, you can bet the first one was examined very closely and taken apart. It simply means this: the reproduction of another manufacturer's product following detailed examination of its construction or composition.

    Pepsi is reverse engineered Coke just like the Warcraft universe is reverse engineered Warhammer.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • SBFordSBFord Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
    Iselin said:
    cheyane said:
    SBFord said:
    Galadourn said:
    Again, Nost have done nothing to be prosecuted for. The code they are using is their code, reversed engineered. It's not Blizzard's.
    If Blizzard wants to take legal action, they'd have to move against all the players that use the vanilla WoW client.
    Perhaps, but every character, every location, every quest, every item, every story is not their "own" and is considered theft of intellectual property. 
    Yet in a delightful bit of irony people seem to continually ignore, every character, every location, every quest, every item, every story, is set in an Intellectual property that was "heavily inspired" meaning "completely ripped off" from the Games Workshops Warhammer IP. Blizzard wanted to make a Warhammer game but didn't want the headache of having to deal with Games Workshop. So they made a game that looked incredibly like Warhammer Fantasy, and then just called it something else. "How dare you guys steal our ideas ...uh... that we kinda stole from someone else." Pot meet fucking kettle.
    That will actually depend on the type of agreement Games Workshop had with Blizzard. If they had retained the right to their art and every creative piece of work in their initial efforts to create the Warhammer game then they have every right to use that intellectual property. However reverse engineering code isn't in the same vein and I think you know that.
    I don't think a lot of people really know just what reverse engineering is or how common it is. Every time you see a product similar to another, you can bet the first one was examined very closely and taken apart. It simply means this: the reproduction of another manufacturer's product following detailed examination of its construction or composition.

    Pepsi is reverse engineered Coke just like the Warcraft universe is reverse engineered Warhammer.
    Except that Nost and every other pirate server out there hasn't bothered to "reverse engineer" the names, quests, locations, lore, NPCs, items, dungeons, raids, mounts, terrain, tile sets, level design, etc. etc. etc. Therein lies the enormous difference. 

    It's possible that Blizzard won't be able to catch them on server code but they sure as hell have a case of, at the very least, unethical, if not illegal, use of their copyrighted intellectual property. 


    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 


  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    Sovrath said:
    SBFord said:
    Galadourn said:
    Again, Nost have done nothing to be prosecuted for. The code they are using is their code, reversed engineered. It's not Blizzard's.
    If Blizzard wants to take legal action, they'd have to move against all the players that use the vanilla WoW client.
    Perhaps, but every character, every location, every quest, every item, every story is not their "own" and is considered theft of intellectual property. 
    Yet in a delightful bit of irony people seem to continually ignore, every character, every location, every quest, every item, every story, is set in an Intellectual property that was "heavily inspired" meaning "completely ripped off" from the Games Workshops Warhammer IP. Blizzard wanted to make a Warhammer game but didn't want the headache of having to deal with Games Workshop. So they made a game that looked incredibly like Warhammer Fantasy, and then just called it something else. "How dare you guys steal our ideas ...uh... that we kinda stole from someone else." Pot meet fucking kettle.
    wouldn't that then be game workshop's business to challenge Blizzard on that? Maybe they did and settled out of court or maybe Blizzard offered a certain amount of money to them or maybe game workshop didn't care?


    Caring or not caring is a different thing altogether - especially when people start getting moralistic about the intrinsic wrongness of this "theft."

    I mean Blizzard has every right in the world to pursue it or not just like anyone else who feels something of theirs was copied. It's the rhetoric around it that gets overblown when people take sides. It's a world of thieves, or copycats if you prefer a kinder term, out there.  
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    SBFord said:
    Iselin said:
    cheyane said:
    SBFord said:
    Galadourn said:
    Again, Nost have done nothing to be prosecuted for. The code they are using is their code, reversed engineered. It's not Blizzard's.
    If Blizzard wants to take legal action, they'd have to move against all the players that use the vanilla WoW client.
    Perhaps, but every character, every location, every quest, every item, every story is not their "own" and is considered theft of intellectual property. 
    Yet in a delightful bit of irony people seem to continually ignore, every character, every location, every quest, every item, every story, is set in an Intellectual property that was "heavily inspired" meaning "completely ripped off" from the Games Workshops Warhammer IP. Blizzard wanted to make a Warhammer game but didn't want the headache of having to deal with Games Workshop. So they made a game that looked incredibly like Warhammer Fantasy, and then just called it something else. "How dare you guys steal our ideas ...uh... that we kinda stole from someone else." Pot meet fucking kettle.
    That will actually depend on the type of agreement Games Workshop had with Blizzard. If they had retained the right to their art and every creative piece of work in their initial efforts to create the Warhammer game then they have every right to use that intellectual property. However reverse engineering code isn't in the same vein and I think you know that.
    I don't think a lot of people really know just what reverse engineering is or how common it is. Every time you see a product similar to another, you can bet the first one was examined very closely and taken apart. It simply means this: the reproduction of another manufacturer's product following detailed examination of its construction or composition.

    Pepsi is reverse engineered Coke just like the Warcraft universe is reverse engineered Warhammer.
    Except that Nost and every other pirate server out there hasn't bothered to "reverse engineer" the names, quests, locations, lore, NPCs, items, dungeons, raids, mounts, terrain, tile sets, level design, etc. etc. etc. Therein lies the enormous difference. 

    It's possible that Blizzard won't be able to catch them on server code but they sure as hell have a case of, at the very least, unethical, if not illegal, use of their copyrighted intellectual property. 
    We can imagine versions of this that are more unethical and illegal and others less so. Some would also require more work than others. One of the conclusions of what you're saying is that when someone takes the time to modify what they're copying to a large extent the sleaze factor is reduced.

    No one has the moral high ground on using other's IP - modified or not.
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

    ― Umberto Eco

    “Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” 
    ― CD PROJEKT RED

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,938
    Iselin said:
    Sovrath said:
    SBFord said:
    Galadourn said:
    Again, Nost have done nothing to be prosecuted for. The code they are using is their code, reversed engineered. It's not Blizzard's.
    If Blizzard wants to take legal action, they'd have to move against all the players that use the vanilla WoW client.
    Perhaps, but every character, every location, every quest, every item, every story is not their "own" and is considered theft of intellectual property. 
    Yet in a delightful bit of irony people seem to continually ignore, every character, every location, every quest, every item, every story, is set in an Intellectual property that was "heavily inspired" meaning "completely ripped off" from the Games Workshops Warhammer IP. Blizzard wanted to make a Warhammer game but didn't want the headache of having to deal with Games Workshop. So they made a game that looked incredibly like Warhammer Fantasy, and then just called it something else. "How dare you guys steal our ideas ...uh... that we kinda stole from someone else." Pot meet fucking kettle.
    wouldn't that then be game workshop's business to challenge Blizzard on that? Maybe they did and settled out of court or maybe Blizzard offered a certain amount of money to them or maybe game workshop didn't care?


    Caring or not caring is a different thing altogether - especially when people start getting moralistic about the intrinsic wrongness of this "theft."

    I mean Blizzard has every right in the world to pursue it or not just like anyone else who feels something of theirs was copied. It's the rhetoric around it that gets overblown when people take sides. It's a world of thieves, or copycats if you prefer a kinder term, out there.  
    I don't disagree.
    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    edited November 2016
    SBFord said:
    Iselin said:
    cheyane said:
    SBFord said:
    Galadourn said:
    Again, Nost have done nothing to be prosecuted for. The code they are using is their code, reversed engineered. It's not Blizzard's.
    If Blizzard wants to take legal action, they'd have to move against all the players that use the vanilla WoW client.
    Perhaps, but every character, every location, every quest, every item, every story is not their "own" and is considered theft of intellectual property. 
    Yet in a delightful bit of irony people seem to continually ignore, every character, every location, every quest, every item, every story, is set in an Intellectual property that was "heavily inspired" meaning "completely ripped off" from the Games Workshops Warhammer IP. Blizzard wanted to make a Warhammer game but didn't want the headache of having to deal with Games Workshop. So they made a game that looked incredibly like Warhammer Fantasy, and then just called it something else. "How dare you guys steal our ideas ...uh... that we kinda stole from someone else." Pot meet fucking kettle.
    That will actually depend on the type of agreement Games Workshop had with Blizzard. If they had retained the right to their art and every creative piece of work in their initial efforts to create the Warhammer game then they have every right to use that intellectual property. However reverse engineering code isn't in the same vein and I think you know that.
    I don't think a lot of people really know just what reverse engineering is or how common it is. Every time you see a product similar to another, you can bet the first one was examined very closely and taken apart. It simply means this: the reproduction of another manufacturer's product following detailed examination of its construction or composition.

    Pepsi is reverse engineered Coke just like the Warcraft universe is reverse engineered Warhammer.
    Except that Nost and every other pirate server out there hasn't bothered to "reverse engineer" the names, quests, locations, lore, NPCs, items, dungeons, raids, mounts, terrain, tile sets, level design, etc. etc. etc. Therein lies the enormous difference. 

    It's possible that Blizzard won't be able to catch them on server code but they sure as hell have a case of, at the very least, unethical, if not illegal, use of their copyrighted intellectual property. 
    Unethical counts for nothing in court.

    "Reverse engineering"? If Nost had "tampered" with WoW there would be other legal challenges that could be brought against them.

    The code is "simply" an interface that takes the WoW outputs, modifies them and provides the user with a different result. At which point you are into the debate about mods, bots and so on.  

    Stripped to the core Nost were hosting WoW. The discussion about the code is a side show. Blizzard's case: they were "using" the WoW IP in an unlicensed manner. And Nost folded.


  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,938
    SBFord said:
    Iselin said:
    cheyane said:
    SBFord said:
    Galadourn said:
    Again, Nost have done nothing to be prosecuted for. The code they are using is their code, reversed engineered. It's not Blizzard's.
    If Blizzard wants to take legal action, they'd have to move against all the players that use the vanilla WoW client.
    Perhaps, but every character, every location, every quest, every item, every story is not their "own" and is considered theft of intellectual property. 
    Yet in a delightful bit of irony people seem to continually ignore, every character, every location, every quest, every item, every story, is set in an Intellectual property that was "heavily inspired" meaning "completely ripped off" from the Games Workshops Warhammer IP. Blizzard wanted to make a Warhammer game but didn't want the headache of having to deal with Games Workshop. So they made a game that looked incredibly like Warhammer Fantasy, and then just called it something else. "How dare you guys steal our ideas ...uh... that we kinda stole from someone else." Pot meet fucking kettle.
    That will actually depend on the type of agreement Games Workshop had with Blizzard. If they had retained the right to their art and every creative piece of work in their initial efforts to create the Warhammer game then they have every right to use that intellectual property. However reverse engineering code isn't in the same vein and I think you know that.
    I don't think a lot of people really know just what reverse engineering is or how common it is. Every time you see a product similar to another, you can bet the first one was examined very closely and taken apart. It simply means this: the reproduction of another manufacturer's product following detailed examination of its construction or composition.

    Pepsi is reverse engineered Coke just like the Warcraft universe is reverse engineered Warhammer.
    Except that Nost and every other pirate server out there hasn't bothered to "reverse engineer" the names, quests, locations, lore, NPCs, items, dungeons, raids, mounts, terrain, tile sets, level design, etc. etc. etc. Therein lies the enormous difference. 

    It's possible that Blizzard won't be able to catch them on server code but they sure as hell have a case of, at the very least, unethical, if not illegal, use of their copyrighted intellectual property. 
    I'm going to say not really as they are offering a version of the game that cannot be played legitimately. While it may be unethical I don't see it as doing anything worse than the people who emulated games such as Star Wars Galaxies or Shadowbane. Or more closely, the game modders who reinvent earlier games inside later ones, such as The Elder Scrolls Renewal Project.


    Except it's Blizzard's game. It's not the property of those players.

    And clearly Blizzard wanted to change "their" game. Something that players of online games should be aware happens. Heck, it even states in many terms of agreement that the online experience can change.

    And if game companies, such as those who own the Shadowbane or Star Wars Galaxies or Elder Scrolls properties wanted to challenge the use of their assets then they would.

    Sometimes it's just not worth it or maybe, in the case of the Elder Scrolls games, which do encourage modding, the company might see it as a way to keep their games relevant and in the minds of their players.





    Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb." 

    Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w


    Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547

    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    edited November 2016

    Agreed.  

    If Blizzard truly wants the ethical high ground on this one they need to provide their own legacy servers.

    All Nostalrius wanted here was to play the game that they loved with other people who want the same.  There was no profit motive, no attempt to earn money that was rightfully Blizzard's.  It's all for the love of a game that can't otherwise be played in an official capacity.  That's it.  But hey, let's nail them to a cross anyway! :p
    There are a lot of things a lot of people want, that doesn't excuse committing IP theft in order to get it, no matter how bad someone wants it. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited November 2016
    Distopia said:

    Agreed.  

    If Blizzard truly wants the ethical high ground on this one they need to provide their own legacy servers.

    All Nostalrius wanted here was to play the game that they loved with other people who want the same.  There was no profit motive, no attempt to earn money that was rightfully Blizzard's.  It's all for the love of a game that can't otherwise be played in an official capacity.  That's it.  But hey, let's nail them to a cross anyway! :p
    There are a lot of things a lot of people want, that doesn't excuse committing IP theft in order to get it, no matter how bad someone wants it. 
    Sort of like wanting to make an RTS game based upon Warhammer IP, but not being able to strike a deal with Games Workshop, so you instead change a few color schemes, the label, and call it a day for the art team? ;)

    image
  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Sort of like wanting to make an RTS game based upon Warhammer IP, but not being able to strike a deal with Games Workshop, so you instead change a few color schemes, the label, and call it a day for the art team? ;)
    I agree with you on that, that said it was on GW to fight that (whether they did or not, I'm not sure)... Obviously Blizz was allowed to carry on with their creation, could be a simple matter of enough being changed to avoid copyright theft (which if I'm not mistaken requires a numerical amount of differences; I've heard 7, I'm not sure if that's the true number of obvious differences needed or not). 

    Blizz isn't the only company guilty of that though, there are plenty of similar properties out there, especially in the fantasy genre. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411
    Stizzled said:
    Distopia said:

    Agreed.  

    If Blizzard truly wants the ethical high ground on this one they need to provide their own legacy servers.

    All Nostalrius wanted here was to play the game that they loved with other people who want the same.  There was no profit motive, no attempt to earn money that was rightfully Blizzard's.  It's all for the love of a game that can't otherwise be played in an official capacity.  That's it.  But hey, let's nail them to a cross anyway! :p
    There are a lot of things a lot of people want, that doesn't excuse committing IP theft in order to get it, no matter how bad someone wants it. 
    Denying people the things they want only ever creates grey and black markets for those things, turning people into criminals who may never have been otherwise. This is true for literally everything, it's just a fact of life.

    I say we'd be better off trying to find solutions that work for everybody. Laws are not carved stone, they're meant to be interpreted and amended as society grows and changes.

    I want your possessions....lets amended the law so I can take them.
  • DarLorkarDarLorkar Member UncommonPosts: 1,082
    edited November 2016
    Distopia said:

    Agreed.  

    If Blizzard truly wants the ethical high ground on this one they need to provide their own legacy servers.

    All Nostalrius wanted here was to play the game that they loved with other people who want the same.  There was no profit motive, no attempt to earn money that was rightfully Blizzard's.  It's all for the love of a game that can't otherwise be played in an official capacity.  That's it.  But hey, let's nail them to a cross anyway! :p
    There are a lot of things a lot of people want, that doesn't excuse committing IP theft in order to get it, no matter how bad someone wants it. 
    What excuses it is that there's no official option.  You can't steal a loaf bread unless there's one on the table first.  Blizzard hasn't put one on the table yet.

    Yes, they are using Blizzard's intellectual property without permission to do so, which is illegal, but their only other choice is to not play their game.  And I think that's absurd.  I understand the legal issues, but in my opinion if a company who own's the game decides not to make it available, then they can suck it if people decide to play it anyway.  

    If Blizzard cares so much about vanilla World of Warcraft they need to put up their own server.  Until then, people who want to play it are going to find another way I don't fault them one bit for that.
    You and others continue to spout this nonsense about not being able to play vanilla WOW. There is and never was such a game. The game WOW is still going strong for anyone that wishes to pay, and play it. 

    You, nor anyone else that PLAYS WOW, can decide that you want to play their IP, on any servers other than the official, and have it be anything other than theft. 

    There is just one WOW, and that is what the owners and creators decide is the "Official" WOW, on the official servers.

    All this other nonsense is just that, nonsense. Made up to somehow try to make this theft sound better in your own head.

    As long as there is an "OFFICIAL WOW" available on official servers, all your points,arguments, and self delusions  are  nonsense.
    Post edited by DarLorkar on
  • gervaise1gervaise1 Member EpicPosts: 6,919
    <snip>
    I'm going to say not really as they are offering a version of the game that cannot be played legitimately. While it may be unethical I don't see it as doing anything worse than the people who emulated games such as Star Wars Galaxies or Shadowbane. Or more closely, the game modders who reinvent earlier games inside later ones, such as The Elder Scrolls Renewal Project.
    <snip>
    The key difference with SWG and Shadowbane is that the servers closed thereby providing people who (technically) bought the game a claim that they should be able to continue using something they bought.

    The key difference with The Elder Scrolls Renewal Project is that it has Bethseda approval.

    WoW hasn't closed; Nost didn't have Blizzard approval.

    Maybe the defence that "todays WoW is not vanilla" would have worked but I don't believe so. 




  • winghaven1winghaven1 Member RarePosts: 745
    edited November 2016
    I will definitely be playing on Nostalrius on their new servers. Hype is on. 

    If Blizz says it's just nostalgia then that's fine. I'll be joining my old raid guild and having a blast! I played on previous Nost and it was so much better than retail had to offer me, even in my playthrough on legion I kept thinking back to it.

    + World encounters with players / World PvP
    + Player-made dungeon runs/raids 
    + Challenging quests and mobs that encourage teamwork 
    + More custom combat builds through diverse equipment stats
    True rare loot 
    + Character investment and hard progression
    + A much vibrant and living Azeroth with people on about everywhere.

    It will be a good Christmas this year friends.





  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Stizzled said:
    Distopia said:

    There are a lot of things a lot of people want, that doesn't excuse committing IP theft in order to get it, no matter how bad someone wants it. 
    Denying people the things they want only ever creates grey and black markets for those things, turning people into criminals who may never have been otherwise. This is true for literally everything, it's just a fact of life.

    I say we'd be better off trying to find solutions that work for everybody. Laws are not carved stone, they're meant to be interpreted and amended as society grows and changes.
    So in a manner of speaking, you're blaming Blizz for others committing IP theft? And now the Pirates are proverbial Robin Hoods who are righting an injustice committed on all the poor folks who want Vanilla WOW? If that's what you're saying, that's pure romanticism IMO. 

    It's like saying If I feel games should cost 9.99 at most, and devs aren't giving me that, it's the industries fault if I decide to steal those games and sell them for 9.99. As they're not giving me what I want... so they're creating my black market. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    edited November 2016
    Stizzled said:

    I made simple factual statements. Black markets are created to meet the demand of people who can't get what they're looking for anywhere else, and both the purveyors and the users are made into criminals where they would not be if the market didn't exist.

    I never claimed people had a right to illegal goods, only that if they want them they will find a way to get them. I also never claimed that lawmakers or the businesses and individuals that use those laws were evil or or doing anything wrong. It's not their fault black markets exist, it's the fault of the people in search of the goods.

    Laws have changed in the past, and are currently changing, that are making once illegal things legal. In most cases this turns out to be good for businesses and consumers alike. To act as if there's absolutely no ways in which IP laws could be changed to work better for everyone is just backwards thinking and doing nothing but holding everyone back.
    IP laws are for the only people that matter to them, the owners of the IP and those who use the IP in legally accepted fan projects (IE: approved by the IP owner). There's no more freedom needed or warranted for the consumer than that.  

    In reality protections of the owners rights are getting stronger and more focus, which is due to things like this..

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,938
    Stizzled said:


    Laws have changed in the past, and are currently changing, that are making once illegal things legal. In most cases this turns out to be good for businesses and consumers alike. To act as if there's absolutely no ways in which IP laws could be changed to work better for everyone is just backwards thinking and doing nothing but holding everyone back.
    While that's true I highly doubt laws will change that essentially allow others to create products/services off of another company's products without the permission of that very company.


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  • HorusraHorusra Member EpicPosts: 4,411
    edited November 2016
    Stizzled said:
    Distopia said:
    Stizzled said:
    Distopia said:

    There are a lot of things a lot of people want, that doesn't excuse committing IP theft in order to get it, no matter how bad someone wants it. 
    Denying people the things they want only ever creates grey and black markets for those things, turning people into criminals who may never have been otherwise. This is true for literally everything, it's just a fact of life.

    I say we'd be better off trying to find solutions that work for everybody. Laws are not carved stone, they're meant to be interpreted and amended as society grows and changes.
    So in a manner of speaking, you're blaming Blizz for others committing IP theft? And now the Pirates are proverbial Robin Hoods who are righting an injustice committed on all the poor folks who want Vanilla WOW? If that's what you're saying, that's pure romanticism IMO. 

    It's like saying If I feel games should cost 9.99 at most, and devs aren't giving me that, it's the industries fault if I decide to steal those games and sell them for 9.99. As they're not giving me what I want... so they're creating my black market. 
    I made simple factual statements. Black markets are created to meet the demand of people who can't get what they're looking for anywhere else, and both the purveyors and the users are made into criminals where they would not be if the market didn't exist.

    I never claimed people had a right to illegal goods, only that if they want them they will find a way to get them. I also never claimed that lawmakers or the businesses and individuals that use those laws were evil or or doing anything wrong. It's not their fault black markets exist, it's the fault of the people in search of the goods.

    Laws have changed in the past, and are currently changing, that are making once illegal things legal. In most cases this turns out to be good for businesses and consumers alike. To act as if there's absolutely no ways in which IP laws could be changed to work better for everyone is just backwards thinking and doing nothing but holding everyone back.
    That is fine and good, but the laws are what the laws are now.  To think the laws do not have to be obeyed because they might change is called anarchy. 

    Please site list of "most" cases where it was good. 
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Member LegendaryPosts: 8,505
    edited November 2016
    gervaise1 said:
    <snip>
    I'm going to say not really as they are offering a version of the game that cannot be played legitimately. While it may be unethical I don't see it as doing anything worse than the people who emulated games such as Star Wars Galaxies or Shadowbane. Or more closely, the game modders who reinvent earlier games inside later ones, such as The Elder Scrolls Renewal Project.
    <snip>
    The key difference with SWG and Shadowbane is that the servers closed thereby providing people who (technically) bought the game a claim that they should be able to continue using something they bought.

    The key difference with The Elder Scrolls Renewal Project is that it has Bethseda approval.

    WoW hasn't closed; Nost didn't have Blizzard approval.

    Maybe the defence that "todays WoW is not vanilla" would have worked but I don't believe so. 




    Unfortunately, that leaves players in a position where they have to pay more (for expansions) than they ever agreed to or was aware of when purchasing base WoW.

    Even if you go purchase the base version today, it's not what was originally sold.  So you have to be careful setting unintentional precedence here...  A lawyer or judge could very well read your argument to say that manufacturers can deny product support in any form unless the customer buys and installs all upgrades to the product that the consumer wasn't even aware existed or was planned at the time of purchase.  They can simply respond with "I'm sorry, but that product is no longer supported on its own.  If you purchase this expansion, however, I'm sure I could assist you..."

    In short and to illustrate the underlying point, it'd be like Ford not allowing you to continue using "their" F150 unless you buy the new rollbar, RC lights, and shocks they just released for it.  if you don't wish to buy those products and change the style and functionality of your truck, your just SOL about that F150, nor will Ford honor any part recalls unless you're up to date on the extras they've released for your model since you bought it in 2010.

    image
  • filmoretfilmoret Member EpicPosts: 4,906
    Are you onto something or just on something?
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