For me it's less about trinity, and more about interesting classes and gameplay.
The diversification of roles allows complex dungeon and raid mechanics. Ok some games don't do those very well, but that's down to the ability of the game's development team rather than a reflection of the classes.
Some games have decided that the one class fits all is the way to go. Telling players they've done away with the 'trinity'. The problem is often developers have removed class diversification - but not replaced it with anything other than a wandering aggro everyone dps mob fight.
Of course not all games should have this trinity - which isn't a rigid description anyway as there are numerous ways to tank/dps/heal - but having removed it, they should have in place something equally engaging. Not only for interesting/challenging group play, but also in medium/long term character development.
The problem comes from the fact that exposure to groups facing threats together now happens at ENDGAME, resulting in players who can solo-play their class.... but can't group-play well. And since most instances are optional now in most games including raids, players will only go into instances where they can get better gear and items for their characters and forget about anything else.... when back then going through a heavy dungeon was required to continue the main story of a game...
People talk so much about the HOLY TRINITY and forget that in the games that had this system that worked, the HOLY TRINITY was played well by its gamers with the same inherent weaknesses the system had (queuing for dungeons and having the group wipe if one or two players mess up). However, in games without the HOLY TRINITY, we still get the same kind of problem...
Players who are introduced to group-based gameplay at ENDGAME instead of learning group-based gameplay as they LEVEL through the game.....
Right now, FPS multiplayers are more Group Based than MMORPGs in the sense that we start multiplayer and we are weak as players and have to work together with each other to win a Team Deathmatch. We have to learn about the map, about each other, about ourselves, and about our weapons and how to win at each map as a team... and of course how to deal with all the cheap stuff that exists in those games too...yes over time we become comfortable with a playstyle and get better at it.
However, today a player a enters a game, caps a character through soloing and then enters a RAID instance, while having skipped all other instances since their guild buddies said to skip since its not endgame, and there you go...
A fresh group of newbies into an Endgame Raid who have 0 experience actually going through content that challenges the actual characters. Oh Survival? Don't worry about it... the entire playerbase can complain about how the content is TOO HARD since of course they didn't learn anything and when enough players leave the game the main developer could nerf the content to the point an Elite Solo player or Duo can wipe out the instance.
As another said, support and cc are really just subsidiary roles and trying to take rock, paper, scissors and stick lizard and Spock in it just muddles without adding anything meaningful.
But I'm curious if there is still a bona fide trinity mmorpg out there. When last I played one the trend was anti-bottlenecking. In the olden days if you were short a player in the trinity, you were stuck. You couldn't advance until you got the dedicated class and someone competent enough to play him. Frustrating yes (but when you pulled it off the victory was sweet and felt well earned) but the solution of class-homogenization and making it all solo-friendly was worse because it defeated the second "m" in mmorpg and here we are today with upteen "why are mmorpgs dead?" threads.
tsk tsk..still to this day 15 years later,it seems nobody has heard of ffxi.a GAME THAT ALREADY DID IT ALL before Wow and all it's clones. Yes EQ1 as we all should realize a gem for it's time,imo the BEST of it's era,however and imo FFXi easily surpassed it.EQ2 gave us nicer graphics and imo was also a superior game over EQ1 but again both EQ games lacked in areas that FFXi was superior at. Without getting into a deep longer discussion,FFXI had the best ever healer/tank/CC/soloist class ever created in a MMORPG>>>>Red Mage.Then it had the BArd and Black Mage also great at CC with sleep abilities. Long story short,ANYTHING you think these other games have done alone,it is likely FFXI already did it and better.The ONLY thing i have seen better along the years is of no argument,EQ2 housing,still to this day the best and even when some games including the bigger games have none.
You literally say the exact same thing in almost every thread you post in. We get it, you love FF11 and everything else is shit. Must be depressing knowing nothing else brings you as much comfort and security. Maybe it's just time to move on from gaming. It doesn't seem like you enjoy it at all.
I already told him, he doesn't need better MMO than FFXI, he needs God obviously.
When you don't want the truth, you will make up your own truth.
As another said, support and cc are really just subsidiary roles and trying to take rock, paper, scissors and stick lizard and Spock in it just muddles without adding anything meaningful.
But I'm curious if there is still a bona fide trinity mmorpg out there. When last I played one the trend was anti-bottlenecking. In the olden days if you were short a player in the trinity, you were stuck. You couldn't advance until you got the dedicated class and someone competent enough to play him. Frustrating yes (but when you pulled it off the victory was sweet and felt well earned) but the solution of class-homogenization and making it all solo-friendly was worse because it defeated the second "m" in mmorpg and here we are today with upteen "why are mmorpgs dead?" threads.
In combat, all roles come down to damage.
Tanks take damage DPS deals damage Healers repair damage CC effectively delays damage Buffers / debuffers alter damage (mitigate / increase etc)
Most trinity games still have CC/Buff/Debuff skills in them, but no dedicated role. It all comes down to how the developer wants their game to play. Most themeparks are still trinity based, even if they have other roles, because the content has been designed that way.
So even if the game has a CC role, if no content has been designed to require that role then the role is redundant.
It seems that the trinity is as basic as you can get without removing roles altogether. This means it is the easiest to design, implement and balance. Adding more roles takes more time, but most importantly is harder to design and balance. In my opinion, it is definitely worth it as it adds more depth and thus more longevity, but that is a hard argument to sell to a bean counter.
As far as I am aware, WoW and SW:TOR are still bonafide trinity MMORPGs. Also, as far as I am aware, LotRO is still a trinity+support MMORPG as it has dedicated CC/Buffer/Debuffer roles (we always used to refer to it as tank/dps/healer/support as the content was designed to require support classes, but it tended not to matter which support you had).
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
In Darkfall one could specialize in 'debuffing' as well.
yes I know, everyone can become everything and one doesnt 'have to specialize' I am just saying people like me focused on our debuffs first for combat.
anyway, the 'trinity' is just an excuse to code less
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
In Darkfall one could specialize in 'debuffing' as well.
yes I know, everyone can become everything and one doesnt 'have to specialize' I am just saying people like me focused on our debuffs first for combat.
anyway, the 'trinity' is just an excuse to code less
Yes its one sad excuse for making players do a certain thing in order to be successful. It was a sad day when this was introduced and enforced in mmorpg's. Probably the main reason they will always be niche. Its how we got these cookie cutter builds.
Something Elder Scrolls got right back in the 90's. Freedom to play and customize a character.
tsk tsk..still to this day 15 years later,it seems nobody has heard of ffxi.a GAME THAT ALREADY DID IT ALL before Wow and all it's clones. Yes EQ1 as we all should realize a gem for it's time,imo the BEST of it's era,however and imo FFXi easily surpassed it.EQ2 gave us nicer graphics and imo was also a superior game over EQ1 but again both EQ games lacked in areas that FFXi was superior at. Without getting into a deep longer discussion,FFXI had the best ever healer/tank/CC/soloist class ever created in a MMORPG>>>>Red Mage.Then it had the BArd and Black Mage also great at CC with sleep abilities. Long story short,ANYTHING you think these other games have done alone,it is likely FFXI already did it and better.The ONLY thing i have seen better along the years is of no argument,EQ2 housing,still to this day the best and even when some games including the bigger games have none.
You literally say the exact same thing in almost every thread you post in. We get it, you love FF11 and everything else is shit. Must be depressing knowing nothing else brings you as much comfort and security. Maybe it's just time to move on from gaming. It doesn't seem like you enjoy it at all.
I already told him, he doesn't need better MMO than FFXI, he needs God obviously.
I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for him to go from one delusion to another ;-)
The trinity merely attempts to describe combat actions. Where I think modern design paradigms go wrong is in proceeding down the path of super specialization for these combat actions, and especially in applying these super-specializations into class kits or skills. Not only does specialization of this magnitude overly simplify combat-gameplay in general, it also leads to shallow character building and development, class-based or no. Think back to classic exemplars of modern fantasy, such as Lord of the Rings. What does Gimli do? He engages foes, knocks them around, beats them back. What does Gandalf do? He engages foes, knocks them around and beats them back. They both fulfill the "tanking and dps" roles. They may do so in different ways (as determined by their class, in essence), but they definitely "tank" and "dps" at different times. And that is the believable part. Whats not believable, or even particularly engaging is having one character mitigate enormous amounts of the damage while completely controlling the mobs aggro to themselves (the modern day tank). Then having someone else sit there mitigating the rest of the incoming damage (healer), while someone casually swings at the backside of the target, occasionally doing a choreographed dance. While this may constitute three dimensional combat in totality, from the perspective of a player its entirely one dimensional (or from the tank's perspective 2 to 3-dimensional if you really want to get into the functional specifics of the analogy. And is also, probably why people claim tanks are OP frequently.).
In my opinion, a better way to approach it is to make combat three dimensional because each of the three player functions are also three dimensional (the same three dimensions for the analogy's consistency.) What this means is separate the roles (Damage, Mitigation, Control) from the class kits or skills. And focus the skills towards defining how a character performs these roles, not whether or not they can. You may then add extra dimensions to combat in the form of preparation and item usage, as long as its universal. Now, this is in no way shape or form easy, as its much easier to work with three one dimensional functions than three multidimensional ones, but you will add depth and intrigue to your game-mechanics by attempting it. And I think at the end of the day, most real people don't care whether a game is themepark, sandbox or classless, they just want a good game.
tsk tsk..still to this day 15 years later,it seems nobody has heard of ffxi.a GAME THAT ALREADY DID IT ALL before Wow and all it's clones. Yes EQ1 as we all should realize a gem for it's time,imo the BEST of it's era,however and imo FFXi easily surpassed it.EQ2 gave us nicer graphics and imo was also a superior game over EQ1 but again both EQ games lacked in areas that FFXi was superior at. Without getting into a deep longer discussion,FFXI had the best ever healer/tank/CC/soloist class ever created in a MMORPG>>>>Red Mage.Then it had the BArd and Black Mage also great at CC with sleep abilities. Long story short,ANYTHING you think these other games have done alone,it is likely FFXI already did it and better.The ONLY thing i have seen better along the years is of no argument,EQ2 housing,still to this day the best and even when some games including the bigger games have none.
You literally say the exact same thing in almost every thread you post in. We get it, you love FF11 and everything else is shit. Must be depressing knowing nothing else brings you as much comfort and security. Maybe it's just time to move on from gaming. It doesn't seem like you enjoy it at all.
I already told him, he doesn't need better MMO than FFXI, he needs God obviously.
I'm sure it wouldn't be hard for him to go from one delusion to another ;-)
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
For the last part. Dunno either. I use a reddit topic generator for random topics about MMOs/politics/games/insects/animals or whatever fits the subreddit. Then it gives me 1-2 paragraphs of content to copy/paste. Then I change it up, and add stuff to it that fits the topic.
Scavenger Bloggs suspected something was a little off when his remarkable headmaster tried to hug him when he was just six years old. Nevertheless, he lived a relatively normal life among other humans.
It wasn't until he bumped into the devilishly vile vampire, reddit Bloggs, that his life finally began to make sense.
However, reddit proved to be spiteful and seemed to have an unhealthy obsession with bouncing. Scavenger soon learnt that reddit had taken an oath never to slap a human being.
When Scavenger's remarkable headmaster is injured in a bear baiting accident, Scavenger realises his own life is at risk.
Despite reddit's pale skin and murderous tendencies, Scavenger finds himself falling for the vampire. Only fate will decided whether she kills or protects him.
One night, a pixie appears before Scavenger and warns him of a darkness within reddit. The pixie gives Scavenger the tattered spoon - the only weapon that can defeat a vile vampire.
Will Scavenger find it in himself to kill the only creature who has ever made him feel truly confused? (Hint: yes!)
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
For the last part. Dunno either. I use a reddit topic generator for random topics about MMOs/politics/games/insects/animals or whatever fits the subreddit. Then it gives me 1-2 paragraphs of content to copy/paste. Then I change it up, and add stuff to it that fits the topic.
Scavenger Bloggs suspected something was a little off when his remarkable headmaster tried to hug him when he was just six years old. Nevertheless, he lived a relatively normal life among other humans.
It wasn't until he bumped into the devilishly vile vampire, reddit Bloggs, that his life finally began to make sense.
However, reddit proved to be spiteful and seemed to have an unhealthy obsession with bouncing. Scavenger soon learnt that reddit had taken an oath never to slap a human being.
When Scavenger's remarkable headmaster is injured in a bear baiting accident, Scavenger realises his own life is at risk.
Despite reddit's pale skin and murderous tendencies, Scavenger finds himself falling for the vampire. Only fate will decided whether she kills or protects him.
One night, a pixie appears before Scavenger and warns him of a darkness within reddit. The pixie gives Scavenger the tattered spoon - the only weapon that can defeat a vile vampire.
Will Scavenger find it in himself to kill the only creature who has ever made him feel truly confused? (Hint: yes!)
pretty funny , I bookmarked that tool , got some friends to use that on .. Thx
Yeah that site can get addictive lol. Try the song lyrics generator for some really hilarious results.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Why would a large group of people ever bother with something else, when they can prove that something is achievable with math VIA Tank/DPS/Heal a known percentage of the time.
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
It was Warrior, Cleric, and Enchanter. It comes from EQ. There were three specific classes that were most optimal for forming groups for challenging group content.
The current "trinity" is not that. It was much worse back then.
Anyone who thinks it had to do with archetypes never played early EQ. Bard CC was laughable back then and Clerics had a monopoly on healing challenging group content and raids. Nothing could mitigate like a warrior. It wasn't until Post-PoP release that SoE started being other classes up to par to remedy that issue.
Entire sections of the population were boycotting and bringing raid progression to a halt to bring attention to those issues.
For me it's less about trinity, and more about interesting classes and gameplay.
The diversification of roles allows complex dungeon and raid mechanics. Ok some games don't do those very well, but that's down to the ability of the game's development team rather than a reflection of the classes.
Some games have decided that the one class fits all is the way to go. Telling players they've done away with the 'trinity'. The problem is often developers have removed class diversification - but not replaced it with anything other than a wandering aggro everyone dps mob fight.
Of course not all games should have this trinity - which isn't a rigid description anyway as there are numerous ways to tank/dps/heal - but having removed it, they should have in place something equally engaging. Not only for interesting/challenging group play, but also in medium/long term character development.
The diversity makes it weaker. Bring anybody because they are interchangeable. When people say what you said, what they are really saying is that I want to play what I want when I want but will wrap it around this little justification (AKA lie).
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
It was Warrior, Cleric, and Enchanter. It comes from EQ. There were three specific classes that were most optimal for forming groups for challenging group content.
The current "trinity" is not that. It was much worse back then.
Anyone who thinks it had to do with archetypes never played early EQ. Bard CC was laughable back then and Clerics had a monopoly on healing challenging group content and raids. Nothing could mitigate like a warrior. It wasn't until Post-PoP release that SoE started being other classes up to par to remedy that issue.
Entire sections of the population were boycotting and bringing raid progression to a halt to bring attention to those issues.
But weren't the warrior,cleric,enchanter the best dps,healer,tank?
It was Warrior, Cleric, and Enchanter. It comes from EQ. There were three specific classes that were most optimal for forming groups for challenging group content.
The current "trinity" is not that. It was much worse back then.
Anyone who thinks it had to do with archetypes never played early EQ. Bard CC was laughable back then and Clerics had a monopoly on healing challenging group content and raids. Nothing could mitigate like a warrior. It wasn't until Post-PoP release that SoE started being other classes up to par to remedy that issue.
Entire sections of the population were boycotting and bringing raid progression to a halt to bring attention to those issues.
But weren't the warrior,cleric,enchanter the best dps,healer,tank?
Nope, enchanter sucked at dps. If they charmed a high level mob later on, they could dish out some good damage, but that wasn't the norm, especially if they were needed primarily for cc, buffs, debuffs with a little damage mixed in. Groups still needed that 4th role of dps, often in the other 3 spots, and usually 1 of those was a puller of some kind too. Also, with a good puller, groups mostly needed that enc or bard for the mana regen and could forgo the cc. Then later on when KEI came out, groups would just get that long lasting mana regen buff from enchanters and not even bother getting 1 for the group if none were around lol.
And people really overstate the need for those 3, even early on in the game. Other combinations worked, just not necessarily for the raid stuff, but then you needed a lot of people for that anyway. Hell my ranger was able to tank end game group content and he was just a hybrid dps. Knew plenty of MT SKs too for raid content.
It's actually called Quaternity (Tank+Heals+CC+DPS) though there was another Hybrid category, the Buffers (Shaman+Bards). So probably it should be called Quintetly (Pulled this definition straight out of my ass).
In Darkfall one could specialize in 'debuffing' as well.
yes I know, everyone can become everything and one doesnt 'have to specialize' I am just saying people like me focused on our debuffs first for combat.
anyway, the 'trinity' is just an excuse to code less
Yes its one sad excuse for making players do a certain thing in order to be successful. It was a sad day when this was introduced and enforced in mmorpg's. Probably the main reason they will always be niche. Its how we got these cookie cutter builds.
Something Elder Scrolls got right back in the 90's. Freedom to play and customize a character.
Show us on the doll where the "bad" trinity touched you.
I like trinity combat and avoid modern MMOs with their disorganised dodge and roll action combat.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't like players being able to heal/dps/tank all at once. But then again, a lot of people don't like a lot of things in MMOs nor do they even attempt to understand, convince, or rationalize with other people. My way is the best way and if you don't think the same I'll just rewrite the same stuff over and over, not to try and convince you but because I like listening to myself talk and convince myself further than I am the best.
It was Warrior, Cleric, and Enchanter. It comes from EQ. There were three specific classes that were most optimal for forming groups for challenging group content.
The current "trinity" is not that. It was much worse back then.
Anyone who thinks it had to do with archetypes never played early EQ. Bard CC was laughable back then and Clerics had a monopoly on healing challenging group content and raids. Nothing could mitigate like a warrior. It wasn't until Post-PoP release that SoE started being other classes up to par to remedy that issue.
Entire sections of the population were boycotting and bringing raid progression to a halt to bring attention to those issues.
But weren't the warrior,cleric,enchanter the best dps,healer,tank?
No not at all......Warriors, Clerics, and Enchanters were three of the worst classes for DPS unless you count Enchanter charming mobs as DPS then they were good but dangerous to do that.....You needed those 3 classes tho then you added the DPS/utility for the last 3 spots.
Comments
The diversification of roles allows complex dungeon and raid mechanics. Ok some games don't do those very well, but that's down to the ability of the game's development team rather than a reflection of the classes.
Some games have decided that the one class fits all is the way to go. Telling players they've done away with the 'trinity'. The problem is often developers have removed class diversification - but not replaced it with anything other than a wandering aggro everyone dps mob fight.
Of course not all games should have this trinity - which isn't a rigid description anyway as there are numerous ways to tank/dps/heal - but having removed it, they should have in place something equally engaging. Not only for interesting/challenging group play, but also in medium/long term character development.
or
NO HOLY TRINITY....
The problem comes from the fact that exposure to groups facing threats together now happens at ENDGAME, resulting in players who can solo-play their class.... but can't group-play well. And since most instances are optional now in most games including raids, players will only go into instances where they can get better gear and items for their characters and forget about anything else.... when back then going through a heavy dungeon was required to continue the main story of a game...
People talk so much about the HOLY TRINITY and forget that in the games that had this system that worked, the HOLY TRINITY was played well by its gamers with the same inherent weaknesses the system had (queuing for dungeons and having the group wipe if one or two players mess up). However, in games without the HOLY TRINITY, we still get the same kind of problem...
Players who are introduced to group-based gameplay at ENDGAME instead of learning group-based gameplay as they LEVEL through the game.....
Right now, FPS multiplayers are more Group Based than MMORPGs in the sense that we start multiplayer and we are weak as players and have to work together with each other to win a Team Deathmatch. We have to learn about the map, about each other, about ourselves, and about our weapons and how to win at each map as a team... and of course how to deal with all the cheap stuff that exists in those games too...yes over time we become comfortable with a playstyle and get better at it.
However, today a player a enters a game, caps a character through soloing and then enters a RAID instance, while having skipped all other instances since their guild buddies said to skip since its not endgame, and there you go...
A fresh group of newbies into an Endgame Raid who have 0 experience actually going through content that challenges the actual characters. Oh Survival? Don't worry about it... the entire playerbase can complain about how the content is TOO HARD since of course they didn't learn anything and when enough players leave the game the main developer could nerf the content to the point an Elite Solo player or Duo can wipe out the instance.
But I'm curious if there is still a bona fide trinity mmorpg out there. When last I played one the trend was anti-bottlenecking. In the olden days if you were short a player in the trinity, you were stuck. You couldn't advance until you got the dedicated class and someone competent enough to play him. Frustrating yes (but when you pulled it off the victory was sweet and felt well earned) but the solution of class-homogenization and making it all solo-friendly was worse because it defeated the second "m" in mmorpg and here we are today with upteen "why are mmorpgs dead?" threads.
When you don't want the truth, you will make up your own truth.
Tanks take damage
DPS deals damage
Healers repair damage
CC effectively delays damage
Buffers / debuffers alter damage (mitigate / increase etc)
Most trinity games still have CC/Buff/Debuff skills in them, but no dedicated role. It all comes down to how the developer wants their game to play. Most themeparks are still trinity based, even if they have other roles, because the content has been designed that way.
So even if the game has a CC role, if no content has been designed to require that role then the role is redundant.
It seems that the trinity is as basic as you can get without removing roles altogether. This means it is the easiest to design, implement and balance. Adding more roles takes more time, but most importantly is harder to design and balance. In my opinion, it is definitely worth it as it adds more depth and thus more longevity, but that is a hard argument to sell to a bean counter.
As far as I am aware, WoW and SW:TOR are still bonafide trinity MMORPGs. Also, as far as I am aware, LotRO is still a trinity+support MMORPG as it has dedicated CC/Buffer/Debuffer roles (we always used to refer to it as tank/dps/healer/support as the content was designed to require support classes, but it tended not to matter which support you had).
yes I know, everyone can become everything and one doesnt 'have to specialize' I am just saying people like me focused on our debuffs first for combat.
anyway, the 'trinity' is just an excuse to code less
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Something Elder Scrolls got right back in the 90's. Freedom to play and customize a character.
Think back to classic exemplars of modern fantasy, such as Lord of the Rings. What does Gimli do? He engages foes, knocks them around, beats them back. What does Gandalf do? He engages foes, knocks them around and beats them back. They both fulfill the "tanking and dps" roles. They may do so in different ways (as determined by their class, in essence), but they definitely "tank" and "dps" at different times. And that is the believable part. Whats not believable, or even particularly engaging is having one character mitigate enormous amounts of the damage while completely controlling the mobs aggro to themselves (the modern day tank). Then having someone else sit there mitigating the rest of the incoming damage (healer), while someone casually swings at the backside of the target, occasionally doing a choreographed dance. While this may constitute three dimensional combat in totality, from the perspective of a player its entirely one dimensional (or from the tank's perspective 2 to 3-dimensional if you really want to get into the functional specifics of the analogy. And is also, probably why people claim tanks are OP frequently.).
In my opinion, a better way to approach it is to make combat three dimensional because each of the three player functions are also three dimensional (the same three dimensions for the analogy's consistency.) What this means is separate the roles (Damage, Mitigation, Control) from the class kits or skills. And focus the skills towards defining how a character performs these roles, not whether or not they can. You may then add extra dimensions to combat in the form of preparation and item usage, as long as its universal. Now, this is in no way shape or form easy, as its much easier to work with three one dimensional functions than three multidimensional ones, but you will add depth and intrigue to your game-mechanics by attempting it. And I think at the end of the day, most real people don't care whether a game is themepark, sandbox or classless, they just want a good game.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Scavenger Bloggs suspected something was a little off when his remarkable headmaster tried to hug him when he was just six years old. Nevertheless, he lived a relatively normal life among other humans.
It wasn't until he bumped into the devilishly vile vampire, reddit Bloggs, that his life finally began to make sense.
However, reddit proved to be spiteful and seemed to have an unhealthy obsession with bouncing. Scavenger soon learnt that reddit had taken an oath never to slap a human being.
When Scavenger's remarkable headmaster is injured in a bear baiting accident, Scavenger realises his own life is at risk.
Despite reddit's pale skin and murderous tendencies, Scavenger finds himself falling for the vampire. Only fate will decided whether she kills or protects him.
One night, a pixie appears before Scavenger and warns him of a darkness within reddit. The pixie gives Scavenger the tattered spoon - the only weapon that can defeat a vile vampire.
Will Scavenger find it in himself to kill the only creature who has ever made him feel truly confused? (Hint: yes!)
http://www.plot-generator.org.uk/
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.
"At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."
It was Warrior, Cleric, and Enchanter. It comes from EQ. There were three specific classes that were most optimal for forming groups for challenging group content.
The current "trinity" is not that. It was much worse back then.
Anyone who thinks it had to do with archetypes never played early EQ. Bard CC was laughable back then and Clerics had a monopoly on healing challenging group content and raids. Nothing could mitigate like a warrior. It wasn't until Post-PoP release that SoE started being other classes up to par to remedy that issue.
Entire sections of the population were boycotting and bringing raid progression to a halt to bring attention to those issues.
The diversity makes it weaker. Bring anybody because they are interchangeable. When people say what you said, what they are really saying is that I want to play what I want when I want but will wrap it around this little justification (AKA lie).
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
And people really overstate the need for those 3, even early on in the game. Other combinations worked, just not necessarily for the raid stuff, but then you needed a lot of people for that anyway. Hell my ranger was able to tank end game group content and he was just a hybrid dps. Knew plenty of MT SKs too for raid content.
So probably it should be called Quintetly (Pulled this definition straight out of my ass).
I like trinity combat and avoid modern MMOs with their disorganised dodge and roll action combat.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon