Pay per hour was tried. That was among the very first models.
Interesting, which game(s) had pay per hour and when ?
Pay per hour is actually still a popular model in Asia. I believe most Asian MMOs use a pay per hour model. Fairly sure ArcheAge and BDO work that way over there.
Pay per hour was tried. That was among the very first models.
Interesting, which game(s) had pay per hour and when ?
AOL NeverwInter Nights. $6.00 hour. 1991 The Sierra Network (aka Sierra On-Line): The Shadow of Yserbius (1991) game had a similar rate but offered at some point full server for $130.00 per month. IIRC.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Pay per hour was tried. That was among the very first models.
Interesting, which game(s) had pay per hour and when ?
Pay per hour is actually still a popular model in Asia. I believe most Asian MMOs use a pay per hour model. Fairly sure ArcheAge and BDO work that way over there.
That is because many people in those countries use internet cafes to play games, not gaming at home.
Too many people rather play a half-assed game with hardly any retail value, marketed as Free, but in the end most of those people pay much more per month than what they would with a montly flat fee.
I don't know the exact date that 15$ subs became a thing. I believe it was around 2000. It definitely was by 2003. Check this out though:
Inflation Calculator Put in the year you played your first 15 and the year you played your first 15$ sub game and hit "Calculate".
Based on my estimation of 2000, a 15$ sub should now cost people 21$. Yet subscription prices have not increased whatsoever. People just want to go back to the good old days of 15$ subs but it's a lot like people who want to go back to the good old days of five cent coffee. It's been 16 years. We went through a major recession during that time period. 15$ doesn't pay the bills anymore.
No consumers have ever shown any indication of being tolerant to them jacking up the prices though. Any MMO that did would be massacred by public opinion as "greedy money grabbers." So they gave us cash shops instead. That's on us.
I don't get it.
I play a F2P game yet I pay 15 a month because I like it enough to pay for it and support it. Yeah, it has a cash shop. I also go there and get stuff I want sometimes.
I also play on a server that requires membership. Doesn't matter if peeps are playing with in game coin just that I know they are making efforts to support the game by buying membership.
As far as inflation goes the real cost of servers has decreased over time so it kind of evens out.
The market was vastly different in 2000-2005. If you were a MMORPG player then you picked one of a handful of games and pretty much only played that game. Either you were an EQ player or a DAOC player but generally not both at the same time. People picked a game and played it for months or even years. Those days are gone. Now we usually have multiple games released every year. People change games like they change underwear. Now the strategy is get people into high priced founder packs and sell them as much as you can before they lose interest and move on.
No one will pay a monthly fee for every game they play. The sub only model also keeps people form returning to see new content. It is just an outdated business model that doesn't work in the current market. I don't care if you charge 5$ 15$ or 25$. The amount really doesn't matter, people don't want 20 recurring subs for games they play casually.
Actually most didn't. Most left and didn't come back till much later. The few that remained typically stayed with one mmo for awhile though. But we were always the weird ones.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
No one will pay a monthly fee for every game they play. The sub only model also keeps people form returning to see new content. It is just an outdated business model that doesn't work in the current market. I don't care if you charge 5$ 15$ or 25$. The amount really doesn't matter, people don't want 20 recurring subs for games they play casually.
It was very surprising to me that "56% of US gamers play a single title for 6 months or longer". Ok numbers should always be taken with a grain of salt, but if the numbers are remotely true then rapid mmo-hopping is not as common as we believe it is.
It does not in itself show that sub model is a viable method, but it does show that rapid mmo-hopping does not seem to be the reason why sub models aren't working well in todays market.
It's simple supply and demand. $15 a month 15 years ago was a good price when there was literally nothing else around, just like we used to pay a lot more for Cars and cell phones, computers.
There are literally hundreds of MMOs now. There is a ton of competition. Capatilism kicks in and everyone is offering "FREE MMOS! Pay NOTHING play as MUCH AS YOU LIKE". In theend we the consumer benefit. There are hundreds of free MMOs that all look spectacular. The best ones float to the top. It's an MMO paradise.
There is no reason why mmorpg should have a subscription.
The old argument was network costs but that hasn't been true for a very long time. A newer argument is frequent content creation but developers never managed to do do frequent enough content patches to warrant $15 a month. The real reason for subscription is that they wish to earn more money and for a very long time mmorpg were a golden cow for publishers.
The reason customers paid $15 a month to access the game was that mmorpg back then had a unique experience you couldn't find elsewhere. That hasn't been true ever since we started to have wow-clones popping up everywhere and as mmorpg became more and more about solo gameplay people no longer want to pay $180 a year just to access a game.
If you want to charge people for extra content just sell it as dlc. It will be more than enough to keep things running.
Citation needed.
I believe it's a little more complicated than 'well, why turn off the money faucet'?
You can rent a cloud server from Google, but do you have any idea what sort of specs you would need to run a MMORPG? Do you know of anywhere you can get this for free (other than offloading the burden to the players themselves in a peer-to-peer network including all the pitfalls that entails)?
There's no such thing as a free lunch.
The problem that investors have with making new mmorpg has more to do with the initial cost of creating an mmorpg and little to do with how much they cost to run. These games went from costing $2M-$5M and now they are somewhere in the region of $100M-$200M. Instead of making it all back on box sales and a few months subscriptions it takes far more time to pay back the investment to make their original investment back. I have heard talk about half of all mmorpg project never make it to launch and that's a pretty tough gamble to make.
What made it worth the gamble was that if your gamble paid off you had a part of the golden cow and got huge money thanks to subscription. Nowadays the golden cow has moved on to other genres.
Please make sure to show a graph on how much of that $15 subscription goes to pay for network costs and tell me why I should keep paying for them.
I wouldn't pay $80 to watch a movie, I don care how much it cost to make. Perhaps Multiplayer, full housing, completely customizable create your own cities with 82 management screens, 824 hyper detailed and unique monster models animations and AI with 43 voice actors speaking throughout 1200 quests IS TOO MUCH FOR AN MMO AIMED AT TEENAGES WHO CAN ONLY PAY $10 A MONTH!
It's simple supply and demand. $15 a month 15 years ago was a good price when there was literally nothing else around, just like we used to pay a lot more for Cars and cell phones, computers.
There are literally hundreds of MMOs now. There is a ton of competition. Capatilism kicks in and everyone is offering "FREE MMOS! Pay NOTHING play as MUCH AS YOU LIKE". In theend we the consumer benefit. There are hundreds of free MMOs that all look spectacular. The best ones float to the top. It's an MMO paradise.
Trying to figure what world you lived in 15 years ago.
I pay much more today for cars, computers and cell phones.
Auto and homeowners insurance, rent, steak, cable TV, all higher.
TVs, those went way down, but my dogs treats cost about $12 a bag.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It's simple supply and demand. $15 a month 15 years ago was a good price when there was literally nothing else around, just like we used to pay a lot more for Cars and cell phones, computers.
There are literally hundreds of MMOs now. There is a ton of competition. Capatilism kicks in and everyone is offering "FREE MMOS! Pay NOTHING play as MUCH AS YOU LIKE". In theend we the consumer benefit. There are hundreds of free MMOs that all look spectacular. The best ones float to the top. It's an MMO paradise.
There are two major points I'm going to disagree with you one.
1. There is a surplus of quality MMO- There are surplus of MMOs, but it is exceptionally rare than any of them are actually very good. The vast majority of the the same game model rehashed hundreds of times with slight variations. In 2003 the main quality version of the WoW model is WoW and the main quality version of the EVE model was EVE. In 2016 the main quality of the WoW model is WoW and the main quality version of the EVE model is EVE. There are more games, but from a consumer standpoint we haven't really benefited at all because they are all crap except the ones that weren't crap in the early 2000s. And every quality game that has emerged replaced a quality game we lost such as SWG.
2. The idea there are good, free, MMOs- Most MMOs require you to spend vastly more than 15$ a month to get the same level of quality you got for 15$ a month in the early 2000s. For instance most games offer a "free" version that is very limited. But in order to actually access most of the really engaging features of the game you will need a "premium subscription." That subscription is usually 15$. But then there are a ton of additional things you can buy through their cash shop that make your gaming experience more enjoyable. Where in the early 2000s 15$ secured you full access to the game on an equal footing with everyone else. So have games gotten cheaper? Not if you actually want them to be as fun as they used to be.
Pay per hour was tried. That was among the very first models.
Interesting, which game(s) had pay per hour and when ?
Prodigy Net and Sierra Online to name a couple of the biggest outside of AoL. They were specifically entertainment services not ISPs like AoL or Earthlink. You had to dial in and once connected you could play their games. Pay was by the hour. Neverwinter Nights was also pay by the hour. I remember quite a bit of paywall in the early Internet where businesses were concerned.
I used to play several games on Prodigy when I was a wee kid. My parents used to get mad about the bills though. Oh man, the memories playing Mad Maze.
You pretty much started paying as soon as you finished with this screen:
I'd gladly pay $21 a month to have access to everything and not be nickel-and-dimed in a cash shop. Cash shops weren't introduced because game devs didn't think people would pay a higher monthly sub cost though, they were introduced because for the majority of games, a cash shop is more profitable for the company, even more so than it would be for them to offer an increased monthly sub rate.
What % of players do you think pay $252 a year to cash shops to play MMOs? Its well under 5% Im sure.... I always saw the monthly as a total waste of money...The day it went away was a good day.....I handed over hundreds of dollars to WoW and EQ1 and felt totally ripped off.
It may very well be a small amount, but it has been reported fairly regularly that free games with in game purchase options earn significantly more money than subscription games.
Also, have you gone through the comments on mobile apps with in game purchases? Go read them after a big update is pushed for the app, you will hear people, completely calm like it's no big deal, talking about how they put in $500 every month or every pay check or every week and how the bugs the update caused are just the worst thing ever, yeah never mind how much I spend but your update really grrrr made me angry! LOL.
Currently Playing:
Fallout 4 (Xbox One)
Puzzle Pirates (PC) Dreadtooth on Emerald Ocean
"Dying's the easy way out. You won't catch me dying. They'll have to kill me before I die!"
To answer Theocritus's question I believe for F2P games that rely purely on cash shop revenues only about 2% of players pay in anything at all, and a small portion of those make up the vast majority of the revenue.
That doesn't seem to apply to every F2P though because I'd say the vast majority of long-term players opt to pay a subscription in most freemium titles.
My problem with P2P was it was just an extra fee to play the game.....At least with cash shops you get something for that money......Mounts, XP potions, gear, whatever
If paying $13.99 - $15.00 keeps out the gold/money sellers and keeps total noobs from f***ing s*** up in the higher tiers then I'd gladly pay for as long as I'm able. Fifteen bucks a month isn't all that bad when you think about it. The average person probably spends that much or more in one month either on soda or coffee. If you can spend that much on non-essential items then you should be able to afford to pay to play.
(To each 'is own though.)
When it's all boiled down though the real issue is with the security of your payment. You want to know that your credit card information is secure and that the system handling transactions doesn't go haywire and continuously charge your card over and over again to an overdraft state.
I've got a feevah, and the only prescription... is more cowbell.
The memories. Which go to show that there is another way of looking at the cost of todays sub.
OP premise: infaltion has eroded the cost of a sub so should it be more?
However the posts have pointed out how subs used to be very, very expensive declining to being simply expensive and subsequently replaced - in some but not all cases - by a monthly sub. (Not the case with FFXIV / DQ for example).
So the premise could be: shouldn't the cost of a sub have fallen further? To be fair some games did take this path e.g. Rift.
Comments
So at least pre eq
The Sierra Network (aka Sierra On-Line): The Shadow of Yserbius (1991) game had a similar rate but offered at some point full server for $130.00 per month. IIRC.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
That is because many people in those countries use internet cafes to play games, not gaming at home.
Ah yes Trump , I already forgot he was elected. All I can say is thank god I m Canadian.
MurderHerd
I play a F2P game yet I pay 15 a month because I like it enough to pay for it and support it. Yeah, it has a cash shop. I also go there and get stuff I want sometimes.
I also play on a server that requires membership. Doesn't matter if peeps are playing with in game coin just that I know they are making efforts to support the game by buying membership.
As far as inflation goes the real cost of servers has decreased over time so it kind of evens out.
If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
No one will pay a monthly fee for every game they play. The sub only model also keeps people form returning to see new content. It is just an outdated business model that doesn't work in the current market. I don't care if you charge 5$ 15$ or 25$. The amount really doesn't matter, people don't want 20 recurring subs for games they play casually.
It was very surprising to me that "56% of US gamers play a single title for 6 months or longer". Ok numbers should always be taken with a grain of salt, but if the numbers are remotely true then rapid mmo-hopping is not as common as we believe it is.
It does not in itself show that sub model is a viable method, but it does show that rapid mmo-hopping does not seem to be the reason why sub models aren't working well in todays market.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
There are literally hundreds of MMOs now. There is a ton of competition. Capatilism kicks in and everyone is offering "FREE MMOS! Pay NOTHING play as MUCH AS YOU LIKE". In theend we the consumer benefit. There are hundreds of free MMOs that all look spectacular. The best ones float to the top. It's an MMO paradise.
http://baronsofthegalaxy.com/ An MMO game I created, solo. It's live now and absolutely free to play!
I wouldn't pay $80 to watch a movie, I don care how much it cost to make. Perhaps Multiplayer, full housing, completely customizable create your own cities with 82 management screens, 824 hyper detailed and unique monster models animations and AI with 43 voice actors speaking throughout 1200 quests IS TOO MUCH FOR AN MMO AIMED AT TEENAGES WHO CAN ONLY PAY $10 A MONTH!
http://baronsofthegalaxy.com/ An MMO game I created, solo. It's live now and absolutely free to play!
I pay much more today for cars, computers and cell phones.
Auto and homeowners insurance, rent, steak, cable TV, all higher.
TVs, those went way down, but my dogs treats cost about $12 a bag.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
1. There is a surplus of quality MMO- There are surplus of MMOs, but it is exceptionally rare than any of them are actually very good. The vast majority of the the same game model rehashed hundreds of times with slight variations. In 2003 the main quality version of the WoW model is WoW and the main quality version of the EVE model was EVE. In 2016 the main quality of the WoW model is WoW and the main quality version of the EVE model is EVE. There are more games, but from a consumer standpoint we haven't really benefited at all because they are all crap except the ones that weren't crap in the early 2000s. And every quality game that has emerged replaced a quality game we lost such as SWG.
2. The idea there are good, free, MMOs- Most MMOs require you to spend vastly more than 15$ a month to get the same level of quality you got for 15$ a month in the early 2000s. For instance most games offer a "free" version that is very limited. But in order to actually access most of the really engaging features of the game you will need a "premium subscription." That subscription is usually 15$. But then there are a ton of additional things you can buy through their cash shop that make your gaming experience more enjoyable. Where in the early 2000s 15$ secured you full access to the game on an equal footing with everyone else. So have games gotten cheaper? Not if you actually want them to be as fun as they used to be.
You pretty much started paying as soon as you finished with this screen:
It may very well be a small amount, but it has been reported fairly regularly that free games with in game purchase options earn significantly more money than subscription games.
Also, have you gone through the comments on mobile apps with in game purchases? Go read them after a big update is pushed for the app, you will hear people, completely calm like it's no big deal, talking about how they put in $500 every month or every pay check or every week and how the bugs the update caused are just the worst thing ever, yeah never mind how much I spend but your update really grrrr made me angry! LOL.
Currently Playing:
Fallout 4 (Xbox One)
Puzzle Pirates (PC)
Dreadtooth on Emerald Ocean
"Dying's the easy way out. You won't catch me dying. They'll have to kill me before I die!"
That doesn't seem to apply to every F2P though because I'd say the vast majority of long-term players opt to pay a subscription in most freemium titles.
If paying $13.99 - $15.00 keeps out the gold/money sellers and keeps total noobs from f***ing s*** up in the higher tiers then I'd gladly pay for as long as I'm able. Fifteen bucks a month isn't all that bad when you think about it. The average person probably spends that much or more in one month either on soda or coffee. If you can spend that much on non-essential items then you should be able to afford to pay to play.
(To each 'is own though.)
When it's all boiled down though the real issue is with the security of your payment. You want to know that your credit card information is secure and that the system handling transactions doesn't go haywire and continuously charge your card over and over again to an overdraft state.
I've got a feevah, and the only prescription... is more cowbell.
OP premise: infaltion has eroded the cost of a sub so should it be more?
However the posts have pointed out how subs used to be very, very expensive declining to being simply expensive and subsequently replaced - in some but not all cases - by a monthly sub. (Not the case with FFXIV / DQ for example).
So the premise could be: shouldn't the cost of a sub have fallen further? To be fair some games did take this path e.g. Rift.
It can restrict them at the least and if it can do that then I'll take it.
I've got a feevah, and the only prescription... is more cowbell.