2016 was supposed to be all about VR, but augmented reality was the star

SEANMCAD

http://mashable.com/2016/12/07/year-of-vr-augmented-reality/#iEotHd6pWOqi

lol...no it wasnt. what? 3 weeks of hyper press over pokemon and now everyone quit? really? seriously?

and all the 'evidence' pointing to AR being more 'successful' is all related to...wait for it....HYPE, not actual retail happening now.

too funny.

SEANMCAD

Torval said:

AR has actually sold out more times than not.

lol.

what exactly has it sold? specifically? what is even for sale for people to buy for it to sell out in the first place? too funny.

The funny thing about VR is that in retail things are actually for sale so things can actually sell out. Not so much in AR

Loke666

Pokemon Go is very primitive, AR is beyond VR right now with no real premium headset out.

I think VR needs 2 more years to shine, AR more like 3-5. Microsofts demo glasses are really cool though but if you think VR have high requirements you ain't going to like ARs.

AR  certainly have great potential if you can jack up a few players to the same computer or lan, you can basically play any boardgame, have a tactical battlefield on your table and mix actual pen and paper RPGs with computer games in amazing ways. Stuff like that is far more social then most computer games.

Going out in the real world and collecting spawns is a gimmick, it wont work more then a few times. 

SEANMCAD

Loke666 said:

Pokemon Go is very primitive, AR is beyond VR right now with no real premium headset out.

...

first off lets step back a second.

AR which is a technology of which no hardware currently exists in the market place is doing better in your view because of a three week hype on pokemon Go? a game in which now people are no longer playing

are you serious right now?

oh which (I will add) Pokemon Go being lumped into AR technologies is literally a phone app.

filmoret

I dont care.  I caught megapoke the other day at my work with just 3 pokeballs.

Mikeha

Anything VR bigger than Pokemon Go?

maskedweasel

The thing is,  Pokemon Go is touted as an AR game.  Technically it IS a geocaching game with optional AR features.  The article also points to photo filters from Snapchat - which, despite my despise for them, the implications of using them are actually quite far reaching.  

But the thing is, it is still an "AR" title in the sense that - this is what people think of when they say "AR Game"  and Pokemon Go did make more money in it's short time on top than the entire hardware and software industry made on VR the entire year.  

Take the predictions at face value that 2.5 Million sets were slated as being sold across the board (actual sales are going to be just shy of those numbers according to recent estimates)  the rest would have to be made up of software to reach the original estimate of 1.1 BILLION in sales for VR.  

In comparison Pokemon Go was slated by analysts that by EOY to have 17 BILLION in sales on that game alone BEFORE Advertising Revenue.   Keep in mind, that Advertising Revenue DID come to fruition -- remember Gamestops and McDonalds worked out deals for advertising by making their locations PokeStops.  Ad Revenue for Pokemon Go was slated to generate an additional 16 BILLION by years end.  
In general that far outpaces anything that the accumulated VR industry has put forth hardware and software included.  

As for saying that it was popular for "3 weeks"  it actually was extremely popular until the end of october that many people began to drop off, yet the game is still going pretty strong.  Keep in mind that between July and August (the last time the data was available) the game was averaging a minimum of 3 MILLION in sales a day.  

Anyways -- the point is -- AR was always the overshadowing presence in comparison to VR.  As stated several times,  AR does NOT have a consumer headset out at the moment - yet, AR revenue was set not only to surpass VR by 2020 but it surpass it by almost TRIPLE based on the VERY SAME Analysts that were stating VR would have a meteoric rise.  

2017 will be a big year for AR, with Microsofts consumer VR set slated to be built to work with Microsofts Creators Edition that is compatible with Hololens.   This is the first step not just for Microsoft to delve into the consumer headset market, but it's their stepping stone to what I believe will be a similarly inexpensive AR  Hololens mobile set in 2018.

That is... unless Magic Leap beats them to the punch.

laserit

SEANMCAD said:

Loke666 said:

Pokemon Go is very primitive, AR is beyond VR right now with no real premium headset out.

...

first off lets step back a second.

AR which is a technology of which no hardware currently exists in the market place is doing better in your view because of a three week hype on pokemon Go? a game in which now people are no longer playing

are you serious right now?

oh which (I will add) Pokemon Go being lumped into AR technologies is literally a phone app.

AR very much exists in the marketplace, just not in the type of marketplace that your thinking. I have it right now and it's very useful and very productive.

Do I need to show you how?

Loke666

SEANMCAD said:

Loke666 said:

Pokemon Go is very primitive, AR is beyond VR right now with no real premium headset out.

...

first off lets step back a second.

AR which is a technology of which no hardware currently exists in the market place is doing better in your view because of a three week hype on pokemon Go? a game in which now people are no longer playing

are you serious right now?

oh which (I will add) Pokemon Go being lumped into AR technologies is literally a phone app.

Uh, with beyond I mean after. Sorry, me thinking in Swedish and messing up the phrase.

But PG is as far as AR is commercially now (which isn't much).

gervaise1

Failure? Of what?

Of VR? Or of Superdata's predictions.

And maybe of HTC to "control" the story. 

Sony have done a much better job in that area.   

And Microsoft, in particular, has done an excellent job in controlling the AR story.

Its the grossly erroneous predictions that have fuelled this story.

Kyleran

Did PGO succeed because it was an "AR" title or more because it was a fun Pokemon game available on a platform/device many had access to and well advertised.

Sounds very similar to 2004 when a company took a popular IP and released a fun game which they advertised the hell out of.

But I don't think PGOs success is any great pronouncement on the vitality of AR any more than that 2004 title confirmed that people love MMORPGs.

TLDR: People enjoy the game and IP, and really aren't playing for its style or genre.

I don't want to play a VR game, but if a really amazing game comes out on VR then I'll consider buying into the platform to play it.

YMMV

SEANMCAD

Here is what the article is saying in short.

The reallity of VR turns out to not be as good as the speculation but AR is better because of its speculation and phone apps with cameras.

which is ridiculously funny

maskedweasel

MisterZebub said:

maskedweasel said:

2017 will be a big year for AR, with Microsofts consumer VR set slated to be built to work with Microsofts Creators Edition that is compatible with Hololens.   This is the first step not just for Microsoft to delve into the consumer headset market, but it's their stepping stone to what I believe will be a similarly inexpensive AR  Hololens mobile set in 2018.

That is... unless Magic Leap beats them to the punch.

Unless Pokemon go was just a flash in the pan and lightning doesn't strike twice.

AR - (MR) hardware Will eventually way outpace most other consumer electronics eventually. A lot of companies are banking on it sure,  but even in its most expensive iteration, what Microsoft has available right now,  a lot of industries are beginning to use it.  

Eventually devices like Magic Leap and Hololens will replace most desktops,  most television sets, most teaching instruments in general.  

Pokemon Go was a game. and one at which did way better than anyone can imagine. It DID outdo VR when 2016 was supposed to be VRs "big year" based on all analyst estimates.  

You can't really fault an article for stating what we're all painfully aware of.  Poor general sales across the board for VR,  and one "AR" Title that made more money than almost any other game released this year.

SEANMCAD

maskedweasel said:

MisterZebub said:

maskedweasel said:

2017 will be a big year for AR, with Microsofts consumer VR set slated to be built to work with Microsofts Creators Edition that is compatible with Hololens.   This is the first step not just for Microsoft to delve into the consumer headset market, but it's their stepping stone to what I believe will be a similarly inexpensive AR  Hololens mobile set in 2018.

That is... unless Magic Leap beats them to the punch.

Unless Pokemon go was just a flash in the pan and lightning doesn't strike twice.

AR - (MR) hardware Will eventually way outpace most other consumer electronics eventually. A lot of companies are banking on it sure,  but even in its most expensive iteration, what Microsoft has available right now,  a lot of industries are beginning to use it.  

Eventually devices like Magic Leap and Hololens will replace most desktops,  most television sets, most teaching instruments in general.  

Pokemon Go was a game. and one at which did way better than anyone can imagine. It DID outdo VR when 2016 was supposed to be VRs "big year" based on all analyst estimates.  

You can't really fault an article for stating what we're all painfully aware of.  Poor general sales across the board for VR,  and one "AR" Title that made more money than almost any other game released this year.

lol.

the article is counter 'poor VR sales' with a fucking phone app and hardware that doesnt even exist for the consumer yet.

Its quite literally this:
'the reality of VR didn't match the speculation but the speculation of AR is better than the reality of VR'

speculation is just that...speculation. its not consumers actually going out and buying something because they cant.

More over, I bet you there is more speculation investment going on still in VR then there is current in AR (he said as the VR arcades are currently being built)

maskedweasel

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

MisterZebub said:

maskedweasel said:

2017 will be a big year for AR, with Microsofts consumer VR set slated to be built to work with Microsofts Creators Edition that is compatible with Hololens.   This is the first step not just for Microsoft to delve into the consumer headset market, but it's their stepping stone to what I believe will be a similarly inexpensive AR  Hololens mobile set in 2018.

That is... unless Magic Leap beats them to the punch.

Unless Pokemon go was just a flash in the pan and lightning doesn't strike twice.

AR - (MR) hardware Will eventually way outpace most other consumer electronics eventually. A lot of companies are banking on it sure,  but even in its most expensive iteration, what Microsoft has available right now,  a lot of industries are beginning to use it.  

Eventually devices like Magic Leap and Hololens will replace most desktops,  most television sets, most teaching instruments in general.  

Pokemon Go was a game. and one at which did way better than anyone can imagine. It DID outdo VR when 2016 was supposed to be VRs "big year" based on all analyst estimates.  

You can't really fault an article for stating what we're all painfully aware of.  Poor general sales across the board for VR,  and one "AR" Title that made more money than almost any other game released this year.

lol.

the article is counter 'poor VR sales' with a fucking phone app and hardware that doesnt even exist for the consumer yet.

Its quite literally this:
'the reality of VR didn't match the speculation but the speculation of AR is better than the reality of VR'

speculation is just that...speculation. its not consumers actually going out and buying something because they cant.

More over, I bet you there is more speculation investment going on still in VR then there is current in AR (he said as the VR arcades are currently being built)

It's not speculation.  AR outsold VR this year.  Where is the speculation? 

SEANMCAD

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

MisterZebub said:

maskedweasel said:

2017 will be a big year for AR, with Microsofts consumer VR set slated to be built to work with Microsofts Creators Edition that is compatible with Hololens.   This is the first step not just for Microsoft to delve into the consumer headset market, but it's their stepping stone to what I believe will be a similarly inexpensive AR  Hololens mobile set in 2018.

That is... unless Magic Leap beats them to the punch.

Unless Pokemon go was just a flash in the pan and lightning doesn't strike twice.

AR - (MR) hardware Will eventually way outpace most other consumer electronics eventually. A lot of companies are banking on it sure,  but even in its most expensive iteration, what Microsoft has available right now,  a lot of industries are beginning to use it.  

Eventually devices like Magic Leap and Hololens will replace most desktops,  most television sets, most teaching instruments in general.  

Pokemon Go was a game. and one at which did way better than anyone can imagine. It DID outdo VR when 2016 was supposed to be VRs "big year" based on all analyst estimates.  

You can't really fault an article for stating what we're all painfully aware of.  Poor general sales across the board for VR,  and one "AR" Title that made more money than almost any other game released this year.

lol.

the article is counter 'poor VR sales' with a fucking phone app and hardware that doesnt even exist for the consumer yet.

Its quite literally this:
'the reality of VR didn't match the speculation but the speculation of AR is better than the reality of VR'

speculation is just that...speculation. its not consumers actually going out and buying something because they cant.

More over, I bet you there is more speculation investment going on still in VR then there is current in AR (he said as the VR arcades are currently being built)

It's not speculation.  AR outsold VR this year.  Where is the speculation? 

They have nothing to sell..what are they selling?

 Hololense is not a retail product Pokemon Go is a phone app not AR, what are they selling? best I can tell VR is very much 'outselling' AR by a large margin because you cant buy any AR products becuse none exist for sale in which to outsell anyone becuase what is required to outsell someone is that you actually have a product of which a consumer can actually buy of which AR doesnt have any that I am aware of.

oh and thank you for your approach it helps me make my point

Nanfoodle

I can point to an AR game that loads of people wanted to play and made money, a crap load. Cant say that for VR. VR is still in the maybe it will make it camp. IMO AR will beat out VR. It will be the winner. 

SEANMCAD

Nanfoodle said:

I can point to an AR game that loads of people wanted to play and made money, a crap load. Cant say that for VR. VR is still in the maybe it will make it camp. IMO AR will beat out VR. It will be the winner. 

you 'can' but you 'didnt' which is odd. why say all that and then not point to said game?

let me guess because you are afraid someone is going to call it a phone app with a camera? because that is what it is!

also, I question that pokemon Go 'sold' more than all the VR headsets combined

also...isnt Pokemon Go a game that is free to play. how do you 'sell' something that is 'free'.

I can not imagine or wish for more help then what you guys are doing to bring this to light. I am not being sarcastic. I think on my own these points could not have been made more clear, so thank you

Nanfoodle

Here is one huge problem with VR, your 3 by 3 or 4 by 5 play space that often people dont have. When they do, running into walls, breaking TV. Tripping over sensors. This makes VR a clumsy execution. P-Go has shown developers and gamers, that AR let you use any space as a safe gaming space. Changing where you play a game could also change the experience. There is more depth in AR and a much cleaner execution. IMO VR is already been left behind by better tech but who knows. Maybe it still has some applications that it will shine in. 

SEANMCAD

Nanfoodle said:

Here is one huge problem with VR, your 3 by 3 or 4 by 5 play space that often people dont have. When they do, running into walls, breaking TV. Tripping over sensors. This makes VR a clumsy execution. P-Go has shown developers and gamers, that AR let you use any space as a safe gaming space. Changing where you play a game could also change the experience. There is more depth in AR and a much cleaner execution. IMO VR is already been left behind by better tech but who knows. Maybe it still has some applications that it will shine in. 

you completely ignored what I said, my request for a game title and now talking about something completely different.

I cant even say 'nicely done' on that one. In this thread I am not getting into speculations so that it can be turned around in a conversation about actuals

maskedweasel

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

MisterZebub said:

maskedweasel said:

2017 will be a big year for AR, with Microsofts consumer VR set slated to be built to work with Microsofts Creators Edition that is compatible with Hololens.   This is the first step not just for Microsoft to delve into the consumer headset market, but it's their stepping stone to what I believe will be a similarly inexpensive AR  Hololens mobile set in 2018.

That is... unless Magic Leap beats them to the punch.

Unless Pokemon go was just a flash in the pan and lightning doesn't strike twice.

AR - (MR) hardware Will eventually way outpace most other consumer electronics eventually. A lot of companies are banking on it sure,  but even in its most expensive iteration, what Microsoft has available right now,  a lot of industries are beginning to use it.  

Eventually devices like Magic Leap and Hololens will replace most desktops,  most television sets, most teaching instruments in general.  

Pokemon Go was a game. and one at which did way better than anyone can imagine. It DID outdo VR when 2016 was supposed to be VRs "big year" based on all analyst estimates.  

You can't really fault an article for stating what we're all painfully aware of.  Poor general sales across the board for VR,  and one "AR" Title that made more money than almost any other game released this year.

lol.

the article is counter 'poor VR sales' with a fucking phone app and hardware that doesnt even exist for the consumer yet.

Its quite literally this:
'the reality of VR didn't match the speculation but the speculation of AR is better than the reality of VR'

speculation is just that...speculation. its not consumers actually going out and buying something because they cant.

More over, I bet you there is more speculation investment going on still in VR then there is current in AR (he said as the VR arcades are currently being built)

It's not speculation.  AR outsold VR this year.  Where is the speculation? 

They have nothing to sell..what are they selling?

 Hololense is not a retail product Pokemon Go is a phone app not AR, what are they selling? best I can tell VR is very much 'outselling' AR by a large margin because you cant buy any AR products becuse none exist for sale in which to outsell anyone becuase what is required to outsell someone is that you actually have a product of which a consumer can actually buy of which AR doesnt have any that I am aware of.

oh and thank you for your approach it helps me make my point

A game.  Just like how VR companies sell games.  Software.

Software DRIVES hardware.  Thats all, nothing more.  Terrible hardware sales (Rift, Vive) are due to nothing being worth playing on them.  

You can play dozens of VR games on your phone just as you can play Pokemon Go on your phone... yet there isn't a breakout star for VR games is there?  I didn't think so.

One AR OPTIONAL game came along and outperformed every VR game and hardware release on the market.  

Cell phones aren't VR "hardware" necessarily, yet they still are the most popular VR platform.  Why should AR be treated differently simply because there isn't a high end consumer set on the market? 

SEANMCAD

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

MisterZebub said:

maskedweasel said:

2017 will be a big year for AR, with Microsofts consumer VR set slated to be built to work with Microsofts Creators Edition that is compatible with Hololens.   This is the first step not just for Microsoft to delve into the consumer headset market, but it's their stepping stone to what I believe will be a similarly inexpensive AR  Hololens mobile set in 2018.

That is... unless Magic Leap beats them to the punch.

Unless Pokemon go was just a flash in the pan and lightning doesn't strike twice.

AR - (MR) hardware Will eventually way outpace most other consumer electronics eventually. A lot of companies are banking on it sure,  but even in its most expensive iteration, what Microsoft has available right now,  a lot of industries are beginning to use it.  

Eventually devices like Magic Leap and Hololens will replace most desktops,  most television sets, most teaching instruments in general.  

Pokemon Go was a game. and one at which did way better than anyone can imagine. It DID outdo VR when 2016 was supposed to be VRs "big year" based on all analyst estimates.  

You can't really fault an article for stating what we're all painfully aware of.  Poor general sales across the board for VR,  and one "AR" Title that made more money than almost any other game released this year.

lol.

the article is counter 'poor VR sales' with a fucking phone app and hardware that doesnt even exist for the consumer yet.

Its quite literally this:
'the reality of VR didn't match the speculation but the speculation of AR is better than the reality of VR'

speculation is just that...speculation. its not consumers actually going out and buying something because they cant.

More over, I bet you there is more speculation investment going on still in VR then there is current in AR (he said as the VR arcades are currently being built)

It's not speculation.  AR outsold VR this year.  Where is the speculation? 

They have nothing to sell..what are they selling?

 Hololense is not a retail product Pokemon Go is a phone app not AR, what are they selling? best I can tell VR is very much 'outselling' AR by a large margin because you cant buy any AR products becuse none exist for sale in which to outsell anyone becuase what is required to outsell someone is that you actually have a product of which a consumer can actually buy of which AR doesnt have any that I am aware of.

oh and thank you for your approach it helps me make my point

A game.  Just like how VR companies sell games.  Software.

Software DRIVES hardware.  Thats all, nothing more.  Terrible hardware sales (Rift, Vive) are due to nothing being worth playing on them.  

You can play dozens of VR games on your phone just as you can play Pokemon Go on your phone... yet there isn't a breakout star for VR games is there?  I didn't think so.

One AR OPTIONAL game came along and outperformed every VR game and hardware release on the market.  

Cell phones aren't VR "hardware" necessarily, yet they still are the most popular VR platform.  Why should AR be treated differently simply because there isn't a high end consumer set on the market? 

which Free to Play game are you refering to specifically to have had more 'sells' then all the VR headsets on the market have sold?

maskedweasel

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

MisterZebub said:

maskedweasel said:

2017 will be a big year for AR, with Microsofts consumer VR set slated to be built to work with Microsofts Creators Edition that is compatible with Hololens.   This is the first step not just for Microsoft to delve into the consumer headset market, but it's their stepping stone to what I believe will be a similarly inexpensive AR  Hololens mobile set in 2018.

That is... unless Magic Leap beats them to the punch.

Unless Pokemon go was just a flash in the pan and lightning doesn't strike twice.

AR - (MR) hardware Will eventually way outpace most other consumer electronics eventually. A lot of companies are banking on it sure,  but even in its most expensive iteration, what Microsoft has available right now,  a lot of industries are beginning to use it.  

Eventually devices like Magic Leap and Hololens will replace most desktops,  most television sets, most teaching instruments in general.  

Pokemon Go was a game. and one at which did way better than anyone can imagine. It DID outdo VR when 2016 was supposed to be VRs "big year" based on all analyst estimates.  

You can't really fault an article for stating what we're all painfully aware of.  Poor general sales across the board for VR,  and one "AR" Title that made more money than almost any other game released this year.

lol.

the article is counter 'poor VR sales' with a fucking phone app and hardware that doesnt even exist for the consumer yet.

Its quite literally this:
'the reality of VR didn't match the speculation but the speculation of AR is better than the reality of VR'

speculation is just that...speculation. its not consumers actually going out and buying something because they cant.

More over, I bet you there is more speculation investment going on still in VR then there is current in AR (he said as the VR arcades are currently being built)

It's not speculation.  AR outsold VR this year.  Where is the speculation? 

They have nothing to sell..what are they selling?

 Hololense is not a retail product Pokemon Go is a phone app not AR, what are they selling? best I can tell VR is very much 'outselling' AR by a large margin because you cant buy any AR products becuse none exist for sale in which to outsell anyone becuase what is required to outsell someone is that you actually have a product of which a consumer can actually buy of which AR doesnt have any that I am aware of.

oh and thank you for your approach it helps me make my point

A game.  Just like how VR companies sell games.  Software.

Software DRIVES hardware.  Thats all, nothing more.  Terrible hardware sales (Rift, Vive) are due to nothing being worth playing on them.  

You can play dozens of VR games on your phone just as you can play Pokemon Go on your phone... yet there isn't a breakout star for VR games is there?  I didn't think so.

One AR OPTIONAL game came along and outperformed every VR game and hardware release on the market.  

Cell phones aren't VR "hardware" necessarily, yet they still are the most popular VR platform.  Why should AR be treated differently simply because there isn't a high end consumer set on the market? 

which Free to Play game are you refering to specifically to have had more 'sells' then all the VR headsets on the market have sold?

Pokemon GO specifically is an AR- Equipped title that has sold more than all headsets on the market.

I know its hard for you to grasp but there's a reason most MMOs are Free 2 Play.  You make way more money in most cases, and Pokemon Go did make way more money than VR hardware and Software.

You do realize that correct?  

SlyLoK

Outside of software the hardware is just in better shape too. Everything can be on the device without having to hook to a PC. However if you hook to a PC you can piggy that power for whatever. Then factor in cloud gaming ( which would be awesome with an AR headset ) and it really is no contest in terms of which platform has the brightest future.

SEANMCAD

Torval said:

Sean it sounds like you're pissed AR can be done on a phone app with a camera. ...

I literally laughed out loud.

yeah thats it I am pissed the people think camera phone apps are outselling VR, which of course they likely are but who cares

also, I am greatly assumed that the only person who has been able to actualy mention the game in question is me. You know you have them running when they cant even say 'Free to Play Pokemon Go'

SEANMCAD

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

MisterZebub said:

maskedweasel said:

2017 will be a big year for AR, with Microsofts consumer VR set slated to be built to work with Microsofts Creators Edition that is compatible with Hololens.   This is the first step not just for Microsoft to delve into the consumer headset market, but it's their stepping stone to what I believe will be a similarly inexpensive AR  Hololens mobile set in 2018.

That is... unless Magic Leap beats them to the punch.

Unless Pokemon go was just a flash in the pan and lightning doesn't strike twice.

AR - (MR) hardware Will eventually way outpace most other consumer electronics eventually. A lot of companies are banking on it sure,  but even in its most expensive iteration, what Microsoft has available right now,  a lot of industries are beginning to use it.  

Eventually devices like Magic Leap and Hololens will replace most desktops,  most television sets, most teaching instruments in general.  

Pokemon Go was a game. and one at which did way better than anyone can imagine. It DID outdo VR when 2016 was supposed to be VRs "big year" based on all analyst estimates.  

You can't really fault an article for stating what we're all painfully aware of.  Poor general sales across the board for VR,  and one "AR" Title that made more money than almost any other game released this year.

lol.

the article is counter 'poor VR sales' with a fucking phone app and hardware that doesnt even exist for the consumer yet.

Its quite literally this:
'the reality of VR didn't match the speculation but the speculation of AR is better than the reality of VR'

speculation is just that...speculation. its not consumers actually going out and buying something because they cant.

More over, I bet you there is more speculation investment going on still in VR then there is current in AR (he said as the VR arcades are currently being built)

It's not speculation.  AR outsold VR this year.  Where is the speculation? 

They have nothing to sell..what are they selling?

 Hololense is not a retail product Pokemon Go is a phone app not AR, what are they selling? best I can tell VR is very much 'outselling' AR by a large margin because you cant buy any AR products becuse none exist for sale in which to outsell anyone becuase what is required to outsell someone is that you actually have a product of which a consumer can actually buy of which AR doesnt have any that I am aware of.

oh and thank you for your approach it helps me make my point

A game.  Just like how VR companies sell games.  Software.

Software DRIVES hardware.  Thats all, nothing more.  Terrible hardware sales (Rift, Vive) are due to nothing being worth playing on them.  

You can play dozens of VR games on your phone just as you can play Pokemon Go on your phone... yet there isn't a breakout star for VR games is there?  I didn't think so.

One AR OPTIONAL game came along and outperformed every VR game and hardware release on the market.  

Cell phones aren't VR "hardware" necessarily, yet they still are the most popular VR platform.  Why should AR be treated differently simply because there isn't a high end consumer set on the market? 

which Free to Play game are you refering to specifically to have had more 'sells' then all the VR headsets on the market have sold?

Pokemon GO specifically is an AR- Equipped title that has sold more than all headsets on the market.

I know its hard for you to grasp but there's a reason most MMOs are Free 2 Play.  You make way more money in most cases, and Pokemon Go did make way more money than VR hardware and Software.

You do realize that correct?  

let me make sure we all get this right.


A 'Free to Play' game
has
'sold'
more

do I have that right?