Old MMOs sucked. The genre never progressed to the point that it was even half decent before being swallowed by WoW and it has nothing to do with this 'easy' BS. WoW wasn't easy when it came out, some of you have bad memories.
The problem is dev studios not having good ideas and a solid spine to come out with truly massive games. It was just too hard for them, so most of them gave up.
And yes, hard to swallow, but when you don't have a life, spending hours every day in a game certainly sounds like a good time, even when the game is mediocre and what you are really doing is substituting RL accomplishments for virtual items.
For other people, not so much. When I started playing MMOs I was in college. I'm not at all against games taking effort and time investment though. But I would like a way of paying extra to speed it up, that's for sure.
It was easy if you had any experience whatsoever...You obvioulsy never played any fo the older MMOs to know
Very insightful post. Maybe your old guild leader is one of the very vocal pantheon advocates who can't wait to lord it over others again. When I hear some of the things these vocal advocates say, and how they say them, it reminds me of those people like your guild leader.
And that is why I have no intention of playing Pantheon. Because I'm afraid that is exactly what is happening. The people who dominated EQ miss their glory days and here comes Brad to bring the glory back for them. The problem is that the type of endgame they want will only appeal to a tiny, tiny number of people and the rest just won't put up with it these days like they did back when.
I should be in their target demographic because I actually want the type of game they are making, warts and all, except for what the endgame is going to be. Knowing what the endgame will be like kills any motivation I have to play the game at all even though I would probably love the pre-endgame part.
So, essentially, what they are doing is looking at a niche demographic and then picking out a niche from within that niche, and THAT is the tiny, tiny demographic they are building a game to appeal to.
Pantheon isn't about "end game". Raiding will be a small portion of content, probably on par with early EQ. That probably means some part of it will be more casual friendly, but in general, it's not meant for everyone to do. I know that's just crazy at a time where everyone demands and expects everything to be given to them, but that's the way it will be.
You can't design a game to accommodate casual players with the most exclusive content. That will make everything seem too mundane, and kill the mystery and achievement that drives people to continue playing. See MMOs made past 2007 for examples.
If doom and gloom posts are supposed to actually indicate anything those chaps with those placards that read "The world will end soon" would be considered prophetic.
Except that this "difficulty" only exists in your dreams. People were unexperienced more than a decade ago, that's why it was hard. It was a bit more complicated, sure, but nothing that the current generation can't figure out in less than a week. Most pseudo "pro/old/hardcore" players in this forum can't even understand basic concepts of popular MOBAS nowadays, I'm not even talking about twitch reflexes. Items/comps/decision making, they are all there and lots of players are super skilled.
If for some reason a "classic"-like MMORPG becomes popular again, with grindy levels and whatnot, it will -NEVER- be like your first MMO experience, never ever, give up. You know why? Because the information will be super acessible, people will take their calculators and figure out all the formulas, people will datamine all items, spreedsheets and google documents will be up and pinned in less than a week on Reddit, lots of people will follow these guides, nothing will be "magical" like your first MMO.
I'm not chasing this imaginary perfect MMO, it doesn't exist and will never exist, period. With that in mind, I can enjoy MMOs and have fun, the most realistic challenge/difficulty that you can find in a MMO nowadays is a) PvP or b) Mechanically heavy raids, and that's why I love FFXIV, is pretty and have great endgame boss fights (high end raids).
Grind/Levels/Exploration/gear? It will never be a challenge again in multiplayer games, accept it.
Players know better nowadays, and also have the choice. The era of games being like a second job is over. People who can't adapt will not have any game to play.
More facts from captain J... The fact you've grown up and no longer have the time to play as much as you like doesn't mean everyone is in the same boat. As always there are players with a lot of time on their hands and others with less. Trends don't change because you do.
Thank you for making my point, more than you could imagine when you pressed the "post comment" button.
You really are delusional and self-centered in calling players opinions (mostly your own) facts only when you agree with them, and the opinions you don't agree with you call:
"rose colored glasses" "fairy tales" "It's cool to live in your own reality, so you can make up facts at will." "very niche and small player base" "Taking imaginary extremes as base doesn't make valid arguments" "You could go on with those imaginary "facts" indeed" (right back at you sir!)
The FACT is, there are MANY of us who are not playing any games at the moment, because (to us) they are shallow and do not provide the experience we once felt on our game(s) pre-wow days. The FACT is there are many of us (I can think of 20friends who I still have at least from my 2003 lineage 2 days, which by the way I have kept no friends from any game from 2004 or older but that is another/different argument) who still want to play a game that will provide progression gameplay lasting longer than a week/month (some of us want a lifetime so we don't have to keep starting over at level 1). Why else would there be so many "doom-and-gloom" posts on "the pub"? Rhetorical question, but I'm going to guess your response... "because none of you like video games and come here to complain about the nostalgic feeling you once had, but will never feel again. Obviously your delusions have taken over and video games are no longer for you."
I'm not delusional, I'm realistic. The delusional ones are those who think old school MMORPGs like EQ could be economically viable again today. They live in a fictional world full of masochists who enjoy having a second job full of tedium in a video game.
About your 20 friends... I'm sure there are many people who have 20 friends who didn't vote for Trump during the last US elections and who still don't understand how he still got elected...
And about the "doom and gloom" posts... seriously? Do you really have to ask? Let me explain it again then... some people love to whine and complain. They always did. But with the Internet, now, they have an audience, and they may even get a pat on the back by some likeminded sould. Misery likes company.
Happy new year to all
Speaking generally from your posts, you're the one regualary whining and taking veiled shots at people who dont share your view on something.
Except that this "difficulty" only exists in your dreams.
Difficulty exists, but some people confuse it with "tedium". Notice how few (actually, none) people who pretend today's MMORPGs are easy are able to link a single mythic boss kill in WoW. Seems to me that those people look for a game which forces tedium on the player, requiring large amounts of time instead of pure skill, so that they can again be "kings of the hill".
I honestly have no idea what a "Mythic Boss Kill" is in WoW as I haven't played it in years. That's the crux of your argument? Sheeez...
Again, you love WoW, have 2 accounts you have used daily for a decade+... AWESOME. Glad you love it!
Personally I'd rather have my individual hairs pulled out until I looked like your namesake... but different strokes for different folks.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Players know better nowadays, and also have the choice. The era of games being like a second job is over. People who can't adapt will not have any game to play.
More facts from captain J... The fact you've grown up and no longer have the time to play as much as you like doesn't mean everyone is in the same boat. As always there are players with a lot of time on their hands and others with less. Trends don't change because you do.
Thank you for making my point, more than you could imagine when you pressed the "post comment" button.
You really are delusional and self-centered in calling players opinions (mostly your own) facts only when you agree with them, and the opinions you don't agree with you call:
"rose colored glasses" "fairy tales" "It's cool to live in your own reality, so you can make up facts at will." "very niche and small player base" "Taking imaginary extremes as base doesn't make valid arguments" "You could go on with those imaginary "facts" indeed" (right back at you sir!)
The FACT is, there are MANY of us who are not playing any games at the moment, because (to us) they are shallow and do not provide the experience we once felt on our game(s) pre-wow days. The FACT is there are many of us (I can think of 20friends who I still have at least from my 2003 lineage 2 days, which by the way I have kept no friends from any game from 2004 or older but that is another/different argument) who still want to play a game that will provide progression gameplay lasting longer than a week/month (some of us want a lifetime so we don't have to keep starting over at level 1). Why else would there be so many "doom-and-gloom" posts on "the pub"? Rhetorical question, but I'm going to guess your response... "because none of you like video games and come here to complain about the nostalgic feeling you once had, but will never feel again. Obviously your delusions have taken over and video games are no longer for you."
I'm not delusional, I'm realistic. The delusional ones are those who think old school MMORPGs like EQ could be economically viable again today. They live in a fictional world full of masochists who enjoy having a second job full of tedium in a video game.
About your 20 friends... I'm sure there are many people who have 20 friends who didn't vote for Trump during the last US elections and who still don't understand how he still got elected...
And about the "doom and gloom" posts... seriously? Do you really have to ask? Let me explain it again then... some people love to whine and complain. They always did. But with the Internet, now, they have an audience, and they may even get a pat on the back by some likeminded sould. Misery likes company.
Happy new year to all
Speaking generally from your posts, you're the one regualary whining and taking veiled shots at people who dont share your view on something.
Proof? Links? I'm the one generally happy with the games I'm playing, not polluting forums of games I don't play, and only arguing on the Pub. And my shots are definitely not veiled. They are straight to the target, trying to stay in the forum rules but not hiding anything.
Well done though, you're going to get a few likes from this... talk about veiled shots
Pantheon isn't about "end game". Raiding will be a small portion of content, probably on par with early EQ. That probably means some part of it will be more casual friendly, but in general, it's not meant for everyone to do. I know that's just crazy at a time where everyone demands and expects everything to be given to them, but that's the way it will be.
You can't design a game to accommodate casual players with the most exclusive content. That will make everything seem too mundane, and kill the mystery and achievement that drives people to continue playing. See MMOs made past 2007 for examples.
Think about what you're saying:
1. Pantheon isn't about "end game".
Really, then what happens when a player gets to max level? There has to be something for them to do. I would prefer large group dungeons with a higher risk/reward built in and some kind of anti-zerg code to prevent people from trivializing things with numbers. But that's not what they are going to do. They are going to have multi-group raids. They have said so. That's the way it will be.
2. You say that raiding is not meant for everyone to do.
At least you're being honest. And you're right, the thinking of the Pantheon devs is that raiding is exclusive content for the most hardcore of the hardcore. Or in other words, the people who have nothing better to do with their lives than play games 24/7.
3. "You can't design a game to accommodate casual players with the most exclusive content."
Well, you could but then it wouldn't be exclusive would it? And that's the whole point isn't it? A game design that allows the no-life hardcores to progress while shutting out everyone else. That way they get to feel special and feel like they have "accomplished" something.
So again, I ask you to think about this. Is it a good idea to make an endgame that will only be accessible to a very small number of people while everyone else is shut out of it and left with nothing to do? Are you sure?
I am astonished that people think that kind of crap is going to work these days. Pantheon is going to end up with a population smaller than the P99 server. P99 at least has the nostalgia factor and the fact that it's free to play to draw people in. Pantheon won't even have that going for it.
Except that this "difficulty" only exists in your dreams.
Difficulty exists, but some people confuse it with "tedium". Notice how few (actually, none) people who pretend today's MMORPGs are easy are able to link a single mythic boss kill in WoW. Seems to me that those people look for a game which forces tedium on the player, requiring large amounts of time instead of pure skill, so that they can again be "kings of the hill".
Tedium is something but there is challenge over time. It challenges your patience. Which is a reasonable challenge imo. If an adult can't handle that, well...
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Tedium is something but there is challenge over time. It challenges your patience. Which is a reasonable challenge imo. If an adult can't handle that, well...
Why not just watch paint dry, or the grass grow if you want to challenge your patience?
Very insightful post. Maybe your old guild leader is one of the very vocal pantheon advocates who can't wait to lord it over others again. When I hear some of the things these vocal advocates say, and how they say them, it reminds me of those people like your guild leader.
And that is why I have no intention of playing Pantheon. Because I'm afraid that is exactly what is happening. The people who dominated EQ miss their glory days and here comes Brad to bring the glory back for them. The problem is that the type of endgame they want will only appeal to a tiny, tiny number of people and the rest just won't put up with it these days like they did back when.
I should be in their target demographic because I actually want the type of game they are making, warts and all, except for what the endgame is going to be. Knowing what the endgame will be like kills any motivation I have to play the game at all even though I would probably love the pre-endgame part.
So, essentially, what they are doing is looking at a niche demographic and then picking out a niche from within that niche, and THAT is the tiny, tiny demographic they are building a game to appeal to.
Pantheon isn't about "end game". Raiding will be a small portion of content, probably on par with early EQ. That probably means some part of it will be more casual friendly, but in general, it's not meant for everyone to do. I know that's just crazy at a time where everyone demands and expects everything to be given to them, but that's the way it will be.
You can't design a game to accommodate casual players with the most exclusive content. That will make everything seem too mundane, and kill the mystery and achievement that drives people to continue playing. See MMOs made past 2007 for examples.
There is one problem with your last statement.
Pantheon is going to successfully KEEP the group it is targeting... and they all will be +15 MMORPG pros who will access the entire game. But the other group, you are talking about 2016 casuals who do not fear game detachment... and what do these 2016 casuals do when the brick wall hits them? Leave... can't celebrate exclusivity that way.
Very insightful post. Maybe your old guild leader is one of the very vocal pantheon advocates who can't wait to lord it over others again. When I hear some of the things these vocal advocates say, and how they say them, it reminds me of those people like your guild leader.
And that is why I have no intention of playing Pantheon. Because I'm afraid that is exactly what is happening. The people who dominated EQ miss their glory days and here comes Brad to bring the glory back for them. The problem is that the type of endgame they want will only appeal to a tiny, tiny number of people and the rest just won't put up with it these days like they did back when.
I should be in their target demographic because I actually want the type of game they are making, warts and all, except for what the endgame is going to be. Knowing what the endgame will be like kills any motivation I have to play the game at all even though I would probably love the pre-endgame part.
So, essentially, what they are doing is looking at a niche demographic and then picking out a niche from within that niche, and THAT is the tiny, tiny demographic they are building a game to appeal to.
Pantheon isn't about "end game". Raiding will be a small portion of content, probably on par with early EQ. That probably means some part of it will be more casual friendly, but in general, it's not meant for everyone to do. I know that's just crazy at a time where everyone demands and expects everything to be given to them, but that's the way it will be.
You can't design a game to accommodate casual players with the most exclusive content. That will make everything seem too mundane, and kill the mystery and achievement that drives people to continue playing. See MMOs made past 2007 for examples.
There is one problem with your last statement.
Pantheon is going to successfully KEEP the group it is targeting... and they all will be +15 MMORPG pros who will access the entire game. But the other group, you are talking about 2016 casuals who do not fear game detachment... and what do these 2016 casuals do when the brick wall hits them? Leave... can't celebrate exclusivity that way.
I think most of the most casual will skip Pantheon as they tend to like F2P games. I think Pantheonis buy plus sub. Something I'm looking forward to personally.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Very insightful post. Maybe your old guild leader is one of the very vocal pantheon advocates who can't wait to lord it over others again. When I hear some of the things these vocal advocates say, and how they say them, it reminds me of those people like your guild leader.
And that is why I have no intention of playing Pantheon. Because I'm afraid that is exactly what is happening. The people who dominated EQ miss their glory days and here comes Brad to bring the glory back for them. The problem is that the type of endgame they want will only appeal to a tiny, tiny number of people and the rest just won't put up with it these days like they did back when.
I should be in their target demographic because I actually want the type of game they are making, warts and all, except for what the endgame is going to be. Knowing what the endgame will be like kills any motivation I have to play the game at all even though I would probably love the pre-endgame part.
So, essentially, what they are doing is looking at a niche demographic and then picking out a niche from within that niche, and THAT is the tiny, tiny demographic they are building a game to appeal to.
Pantheon isn't about "end game". Raiding will be a small portion of content, probably on par with early EQ. That probably means some part of it will be more casual friendly, but in general, it's not meant for everyone to do. I know that's just crazy at a time where everyone demands and expects everything to be given to them, but that's the way it will be.
You can't design a game to accommodate casual players with the most exclusive content. That will make everything seem too mundane, and kill the mystery and achievement that drives people to continue playing. See MMOs made past 2007 for examples.
There is one problem with your last statement.
Pantheon is going to successfully KEEP the group it is targeting... and they all will be +15 MMORPG pros who will access the entire game. But the other group, you are talking about 2016 casuals who do not fear game detachment... and what do these 2016 casuals do when the brick wall hits them? Leave... can't celebrate exclusivity that way.
I am very intrigued at where the line will be between solo-centric and group-based (small group as well) activities. They may be able to find activities that engage even if not raiding and doing typical end game activities. Maybe they will have "end game" activities that don't involve grouping with others.
When push comes to shove it sounds like they will stick to their group preferred model which I think is great. The industry can use a modern version of that. We should celebrate gameplay diversity.
My patience is challenged enough with real world activities. I game to get away from tedium.
Some people don't see the older method of activities taking longer/more effort as tedium. They prefer it.
Nothing wrong with that. Tolerance for tedium is subjective as his people's definition of entertainment. When I'm getting bored or grinding in game I'm done for a awhile as that defeats my purpose for playing.
Post edited by VengeSunsoar on
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
My patience is challenged enough with real world activities. I game to get away from tedium.
Some people don't see the older method of activities taking longer/more effort as tedium. They prefer it.
Nothing wrong with that. Tolerance for tedium is subjective as his people's definition of entertainment. When I'm getting bored or grinding in game I'm fine for a awhile as that defeats my purpose for playing.
You mean the use of the term "tedium" and to what activity it applies is subjective. You keep using the word to describe that method play as though it's fact. It may be tedious to you but not to others so it's not a matter of tedium tolerance, but whether a player sees it tedious in the first place.
Tedium is something but there is challenge over time. It challenges your patience. Which is a reasonable challenge imo. If an adult can't handle that, well...
Why not just watch paint dry, or the grass grow if you want to challenge your patience?
I think when people say tedium, they mean, I need fast fights, and fast this and that. No down time. Like little bits of heroin to get them high and addicted. This 15 minutes online at a time thing too.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Tedium is something but there is challenge over time. It challenges your patience. Which is a reasonable challenge imo. If an adult can't handle that, well...
Why not just watch paint dry, or the grass grow if you want to challenge your patience?
I think when people say tedium, they mean, I need fast fights, and fast this and that. No down time. Like little bits of heroin to get them high and addicted. This 15 minutes online at a time thing too.
Yes, but after the first hit has ended (15 minutes) they have another hit, and they'll do that all evening, they don't stop playing after the 15 minutes are over.
With the shorter sessions you're constantly being stimulated for a longer period. When I used to play Quake/Starcraft I'd be constantly stimulated all evening until I stop playing.
Compare that to EQ when I could quite easily read a book during the leveling process as it's less stimulating.
Now I don't have to read a book as the developers are putting more effort into creating interesting stories and NPCs.
If developers want to create a stimulating PvE leveling experience they either have to allow a variety of different ways to level outside of combat, or make PvE as good as you find in single player games.
No. We just want to be entertained by a product designed for entertainment. Tedium isn't entertaining it's tedious
Its all relative. I find doing a ton of quick task to be tedious. It is all about entertainment but yelling tedium is hallow. Gameplay is a timesink which can be viewed as a tedium if its not enjoyable to you.
Would my son find playing a turn based tactical RPG like Orginal Sin fun? No its probably tedious and boring. Now one of the problems with this audience finds most of things that make the genre unique tedious.
Having to work hard for fake accomplishments was fun when I was 16 and could play 40 hours per week. The games have changed because gamers have changed. I have a job, a wife, a house. Jumpgate was fun with full equip loss, but I don't have time to grind gear just to lose it and have to grind it again. The first time I left EVE was when I lost a fully outfitted battleship and didn't have the isk to replace it. I have enough real work to do, I don't need to grind 50 hours of fake work just to have success in a video game so I can feel like a winner. If your primary reason for playing video games is to get a sense of accomplishment, you should probably talk to a therapist.
Those oldschool games evoke so much nostalgia because they were a new kind of game and you didn't have many other options. Go back and play them. They're all shite. All of them. They didn't have "more complex systems", they had barely functional code and did not "work as intended", they worked at a level that was tolerable enough to be released.
Comments
You can't design a game to accommodate casual players with the most exclusive content. That will make everything seem too mundane, and kill the mystery and achievement that drives people to continue playing. See MMOs made past 2007 for examples.
If for some reason a "classic"-like MMORPG becomes popular again, with grindy levels and whatnot, it will -NEVER- be like your first MMO experience, never ever, give up. You know why? Because the information will be super acessible, people will take their calculators and figure out all the formulas, people will datamine all items, spreedsheets and google documents will be up and pinned in less than a week on Reddit, lots of people will follow these guides, nothing will be "magical" like your first MMO.
I'm not chasing this imaginary perfect MMO, it doesn't exist and will never exist, period. With that in mind, I can enjoy MMOs and have fun, the most realistic challenge/difficulty that you can find in a MMO nowadays is a) PvP or b) Mechanically heavy raids, and that's why I love FFXIV, is pretty and have great endgame boss fights (high end raids).
Grind/Levels/Exploration/gear? It will never be a challenge again in multiplayer games, accept it.
Again, you love WoW, have 2 accounts you have used daily for a decade+... AWESOME. Glad you love it!
Personally I'd rather have my individual hairs pulled out until I looked like your namesake... but different strokes for different folks.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Think about what you're saying:
1. Pantheon isn't about "end game".
Really, then what happens when a player gets to max level? There has to be something for them to do. I would prefer large group dungeons with a higher risk/reward built in and some kind of anti-zerg code to prevent people from trivializing things with numbers. But that's not what they are going to do. They are going to have multi-group raids. They have said so. That's the way it will be.
2. You say that raiding is not meant for everyone to do.
At least you're being honest. And you're right, the thinking of the Pantheon devs is that raiding is exclusive content for the most hardcore of the hardcore. Or in other words, the people who have nothing better to do with their lives than play games 24/7.
3. "You can't design a game to accommodate casual players with the most exclusive content."
Well, you could but then it wouldn't be exclusive would it? And that's the whole point isn't it? A game design that allows the no-life hardcores to progress while shutting out everyone else. That way they get to feel special and feel like they have "accomplished" something.
So again, I ask you to think about this. Is it a good idea to make an endgame that will only be accessible to a very small number of people while everyone else is shut out of it and left with nothing to do? Are you sure?
I am astonished that people think that kind of crap is going to work these days. Pantheon is going to end up with a population smaller than the P99 server. P99 at least has the nostalgia factor and the fact that it's free to play to draw people in. Pantheon won't even have that going for it.
Tedium is something but there is challenge over time. It challenges your patience. Which is a reasonable challenge imo. If an adult can't handle that, well...
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Pantheon is going to successfully KEEP the group it is targeting... and they all will be +15 MMORPG pros who will access the entire game. But the other group, you are talking about 2016 casuals who do not fear game detachment... and what do these 2016 casuals do when the brick wall hits them? Leave... can't celebrate exclusivity that way.
Today MMORPGs
Some people don't see the older method of activities taking longer/more effort as tedium. They prefer it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I am very intrigued at where the line will be between solo-centric and group-based (small group as well) activities. They may be able to find activities that engage even if not raiding and doing typical end game activities. Maybe they will have "end game" activities that don't involve grouping with others.
When push comes to shove it sounds like they will stick to their group preferred model which I think is great. The industry can use a modern version of that. We should celebrate gameplay diversity.
You mean the use of the term "tedium" and to what activity it applies is subjective. You keep using the word to describe that method play as though it's fact. It may be tedious to you but not to others so it's not a matter of tedium tolerance, but whether a player sees it tedious in the first place.
I think when people say tedium, they mean, I need fast fights, and fast this and that. No down time. Like little bits of heroin to get them high and addicted. This 15 minutes online at a time thing too.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
With the shorter sessions you're constantly being stimulated for a longer period. When I used to play Quake/Starcraft I'd be constantly stimulated all evening until I stop playing.
Compare that to EQ when I could quite easily read a book during the leveling process as it's less stimulating.
Now I don't have to read a book as the developers are putting more effort into creating interesting stories and NPCs.
If developers want to create a stimulating PvE leveling experience they either have to allow a variety of different ways to level outside of combat, or make PvE as good as you find in single player games.
Would my son find playing a turn based tactical RPG like Orginal Sin fun? No its probably tedious and boring. Now one of the problems with this audience finds most of things that make the genre unique tedious.
Those oldschool games evoke so much nostalgia because they were a new kind of game and you didn't have many other options. Go back and play them. They're all shite. All of them. They didn't have "more complex systems", they had barely functional code and did not "work as intended", they worked at a level that was tolerable enough to be released.