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Frustrated $1k backers start to rebel...

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  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,803
    Nyctelios said:
    Dakeru said:
    Nyctelios said:
    Dakeru said:
    Players usually don't like it when their power and privileges in an MMO are "nerfed" after a while.

    But when they PAID real money for that power and privilege, then all hell breaks loose... :D
    Real money for privileges.. and yet they insist that this game isn't pay to win.
    It would be P2W if you would not ever lose those privileges. But besides losing it other players can't take them from you. It's not the same as buying a boost that will remain on your character no matter what or a piece of equipment that will be yours no matter what.
    Sorry but that's really a weak argument.
    They are buying massive benefits - period.
    If it is a weak argument then argue back because I'm curious about your point.

    To me, it is pay to win when the advantage gives you an edge that becomes one of the major reasons why you are winning something and that said advantage can't be countered or taken away.

    I'm not being sarcastic, I really do want to hear (read) your point. 

    Just have in mind I'm not defending this game whatsoever. I think this is a scam, but I also don't think those points are the case of pw2.
    Back in the days you would buy weapons or armor with insane stats or effects.
    Eventually it would give you a great advantage in pvp so you would get lands and forts and the rewards and fame that came with it.

    The people back then argued that this wasn't p2w because you could still claim the fort if you were simply a better player etc.

    The people now simply buy their lands and forts directly which puts them ahead of "normal" players.
    Yes, maybe the day will come where some join together to bring down that fortified base but until then it's a scenario of that normal player being happy that he finally got a sword but unfortunately a sword will do nothing against that massive wall to keep him out of the fort.

    The idea that they can overcome the paid benefits after months of preparation and effort is the same as the "Get Gud" statements back then.

    Additionally it is more likely that more people will try to join the guy who bought a fort and defend it with all they got.
    It's easier to be part of the instantly created empire than to bring it down.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,660
    Kyleran said:
    Nanfoodle said:
    When you are hard pressed for money you can do some stupid things. They are just trying to get what they need to keep going. If they dont catch the eye of an investor soon, they could be in trouble. 
    No worries, Jeromy Walsh recently said that they had already been approached by several prospective investors and publishers. Money is no object now.

    Presumably they are just evaluating the offers to see which one is prepared to give them the best deal.
    Cmon, you don't really believe this right?

    Great attempt at sarcasm if not. ;)
    Pretty sure...

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  • IselinIselin Member LegendaryPosts: 18,719
    I think I have it figured out: COE is not really a game in development. It's really a study sponsored by the Stanford School of Psychology... is Philip Zimbardo still around? 
    "Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”

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  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    CrazKanuk said:


    . Effectively they're at a part now where it's a matter of mashing the naughty bits together. All the really hard work is done. 


    I will be sure to have this one loaded when there is another excuse and another delay which should be happening about the time they claim 3.0 will be getting put on the PTS.

    Thats the thing with these games, especially that one. They all have milestones yet every one is missed or ignored.

    But as long as they make some fancy videos (that anyone with the studio they bought/built can do) everyone is happy.

    Here is my final observation on the subject. they built a MOVIE (making) studio before they even had the engine figured out. And they have since then created and distributed dozens and dozens of these (non gameplay) trailers. Some of them they have claimed to be in game but I dont believe it.

    So why do you think that is?

    That is a semi rhetorical question no need to answer.
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,803
    Nyctelios said:

    I think you are using a very simplistic approach to the matter. 
    And I think you are buying way too much into empty promises and hype.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • ForgrimmForgrimm Member EpicPosts: 3,069
    Iselin said:
    I think I have it figured out: COE is not really a game in development. It's really a study sponsored by the Stanford School of Psychology... is Philip Zimbardo still around? 
    The Stanford MMO Experiment.
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,100
    Elsabolts said:
    YashaX said:
    Elsabolts said:
    Well anyway I was smart enough to invest almost 1k in real money to CIG and have gotten a FPS game, what more could you ask for ? Oh that's right I invested in 2 space ships which have yet to be made. Going on 4yrs now. I did ask in the 10 for the chairman if the Roberts had any Swiss bank accounts, still waiting for a response.
    Whyyyyyy!!!???

    (I mean that in a nice way, I just seriously cannot understand why people are spending so much money on things like this when there are so many great games out there that are fully functional/released.)

    SIGH, I fell for the Hype.

    See I can understand that, but for me that would mean pledging maybe $40-$100. The disconnect for me is how people end up spending thousand(s). 

    I may well be wrong, but I get the impression that many of the people making large pledges (in the thousands) to these crowd funding schemes are not millionaires/billionaires but just "ordinary" middle-class folk. I'm intrigued at how ordinary folk can be convinced to part with large sums of cash based on just hype and promises.

    Anyway, I don't want to make you feel depressed Elsa. Luckily SC seems to be a lot closer to actually releasing than a lot of other crowd funded mmos so you'll be able to play it sooner or later, and it will be awesome even if its only even half as good as promised.
    ....
  • aRtFuLThinGaRtFuLThinG Member UncommonPosts: 1,387
    CrazKanuk said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    CrazKanuk said:

    "If CIG were to fail [...] does that pretty much seal the fate of future MMORPG projects? It very well could."



    Sorry, I'm in a weird mood today.

    I was talking specifically about crowdfunded MMORPGs, but I suppose that it could ding the industry as a whole, too, for AAA titles. However, with Nexen (?) debuting like 30 titles in development, I think the industry is probably going to survive it, lol.
    Crowdfunding is largely irrelevant to the future of the MMORPG industry !

    *gasp*

    The future of the MMORPG industry is in China and South Korea, where crowdfunding is unknown. There are dozens of huge game development companies in those countries producing more MMO's in one year than the western devs produced in the entire history of MMO's...

    I didn't know whether to Awesome or Agree this, but I wanted to do both. Honestly, I'm not sure why these Korean companies even try to enter the North American market. Especially when they're making 10 times the revenues in the Asia-Pacific market, lol. They must think that we're all over here just waiting for the next great game to throw our thousands of spare dollars at. In reality, we're really just waiting for the next game we can bitch and complain about. 
    I don't think the original company themselves necessarily was trying to, it is more the western game publishers that wants to make a quick buck by bringing them to the west.

    I doubt many company will reject if someone offers them money to sell their products to an even larger audience (especially East Asian companies)
  • GolelornGolelorn Member RarePosts: 1,395
    https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/15759/brewmasters-rebel-here

    Seems like they feel the "new" tiers offered at the same price level are superior to the old ones.


    Not a good idea to piss off the people that paid $1k in real cash for some promised pixel property...  
    Hell hath no fury as a Backer scorned.


    Here is a sample quote from an actual "Tier 6" Backer:
    As I said before, I started this thread so others could come and discuss, as I feel ripped off and I'd like the chance for people at my backing particularly to gather and voice their opinions about this pledge tier comparison.


    Another from a different "Tier 6 backer:
    We are less than a hundred brewmasters and many of them are really concerned.


    I understand. However, you got what you were promised.

    Do not buy into this if you're not willing to accept others may get what you have cheaper. I have ZERO sympathy. I have bought zero kickstarter crap. I bought one "beta" thing from steam for 10 bucks that I instantly regretted. Is it because, I'm not a fool? I don't for a second believe kickstarter will ever produce a quality game... Show me. I'm waiting(been waiting for years kickstarter)... 
  • GolelornGolelorn Member RarePosts: 1,395
    YashaX said:

    See I can understand that, but for me that would mean pledging maybe $40-$100. The disconnect for me is how people end up spending thousand(s). 

    I may well be wrong, but I get the impression that many of the people making large pledges (in the thousands) to these crowd funding schemes are not millionaires/billionaires but just "ordinary" middle-class folk. I'm intrigued at how ordinary folk can be convinced to part with large sums of cash based on just hype and promises.

    Anyway, I don't want to make you feel depressed Elsa. Luckily SC seems to be a lot closer to actually releasing than a lot of other crowd funded mmos so you'll be able to play it sooner or later, and it will be awesome even if its only even half as good as promised.
    Poor people are addicted to meth, and do terrible things to attain that high. I would imagine this is similar to that.
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    edited January 2017
    rodarin said:
    CrazKanuk said:


    . Effectively they're at a part now where it's a matter of mashing the naughty bits together. All the really hard work is done. 


    I will be sure to have this one loaded when there is another excuse and another delay which should be happening about the time they claim 3.0 will be getting put on the PTS.

    Thats the thing with these games, especially that one. They all have milestones yet every one is missed or ignored.

    But as long as they make some fancy videos (that anyone with the studio they bought/built can do) everyone is happy.

    Here is my final observation on the subject. they built a MOVIE (making) studio before they even had the engine figured out. And they have since then created and distributed dozens and dozens of these (non gameplay) trailers. Some of them they have claimed to be in game but I dont believe it.

    So why do you think that is?

    That is a semi rhetorical question no need to answer.

    Just for clarity, mashing naughty bits together doesn't mean greatness. In fact in the majority of cases it's disappointing to some degree. Just saying that if they wanted to just blow their load and ride off into the sunset then why try to be a hero? Why do you think that is? 

    That is also a semi rhetorical question, lol ;) 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    CrazKanuk said:

    Just for clarity, mashing naughty bits together doesn't mean greatness. In fact in the majority of cases it's disappointing to some degree. Just saying that if they wanted to just blow their load and ride off into the sunset then why try to be a hero? Why do you think that is? 

    That is also a semi rhetorical question, lol ;) 
    They will go until funding stops coming in, thats the plan. This past month (if the numbers are truly accurate) shows that people are even more willing to keep throwing money at them. This isnt mutually exclusive to CiG it goes for all of them CiG just (apparently) makes money exponentially faster and to a much greater degree.

    Their 'success' really defies logic. Simply because many other projects with better plans, better presentation (before they built the movie studio) and a lot less controversy cant raise enough money to buy a cup of coffee let alone a 15K dollar coffee maker.

    This is basically the WoW factor in reverse. When everyone tried to copy WOWs success in MAKING a game the new thing is to try and emulate CiGs 'success' is simply raising funds claiming youre going to make a groundbreaking game.
  • psiicpsiic Member RarePosts: 1,642
    A sucker is born everyday and a fool and their money is soon parted.
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member LegendaryPosts: 7,671
    rodarin said:
    CrazKanuk said:

    Just for clarity, mashing naughty bits together doesn't mean greatness. In fact in the majority of cases it's disappointing to some degree. Just saying that if they wanted to just blow their load and ride off into the sunset then why try to be a hero? Why do you think that is? 

    That is also a semi rhetorical question, lol ;) 
    They will go until funding stops coming in, thats the plan. This past month (if the numbers are truly accurate) shows that people are even more willing to keep throwing money at them. This isnt mutually exclusive to CiG it goes for all of them CiG just (apparently) makes money exponentially faster and to a much greater degree.

    Their 'success' really defies logic. Simply because many other projects with better plans, better presentation (before they built the movie studio) and a lot less controversy cant raise enough money to buy a cup of coffee let alone a 15K dollar coffee maker.

    This is basically the WoW factor in reverse. When everyone tried to copy WOWs success in MAKING a game the new thing is to try and emulate CiGs 'success' is simply raising funds claiming youre going to make a groundbreaking game.
    good analogy, SC is the WoW version of crowd funding.
  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829
    YashaX said:
    Who are these people paying $1000 or more for a game years from release (if it is even released!)? I feel like I am from a different planet or something when I read about this stuff.
    I'm right there shaking my head alongside you, @YashaX :D

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • beebop500beebop500 Member UncommonPosts: 217
    YashaX said:
    Who are these people paying $1000 or more for a game years from release (if it is even released!)? I feel like I am from a different planet or something when I read about this stuff.
    I'm right there shaking my head alongside you, @YashaX :D
    I am right there next to both of you, lol.  And crass as this may sound, I have very little sympathy for anyone who would do this.  I have spent zero money on pre-orders or on "crowdfunded" crap or "kickstarter" or whatever you want to call it; all of them are unfinished promises, in some cases little more than dreams.  I could see spending $10 or maybe $50 on a pre-order for a long-running franchise sequel, but for some barely-created crap like this?  Please.

    Then the "backers" flush their money down the Dream Toilet, and when things go bad they assault forums with their tales of woe.  I think these "elite" backers (folks who spend thousands on concept art) do it because if the game launches, they want to feel "special."  In most cases, they appear to be doing it in order to buy power (see SC), and so again, I have a very difficult time dredging up any sympathy. 
    "We are all as God made us, and many of us much worse." - Don Quixote
  • TokkenTokken Member EpicPosts: 3,650
    who pays that much for a game? seriously!

    Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004!  Make PvE GREAT Again!

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade Member EpicPosts: 4,829
    beebop500 said:
    YashaX said:
    Who are these people paying $1000 or more for a game years from release (if it is even released!)? I feel like I am from a different planet or something when I read about this stuff.
    I'm right there shaking my head alongside you, @YashaX :D
    I am right there next to both of you, lol.  And crass as this may sound, I have very little sympathy for anyone who would do this.  I have spent zero money on pre-orders or on "crowdfunded" crap or "kickstarter" or whatever you want to call it; all of them are unfinished promises, in some cases little more than dreams.  I could see spending $10 or maybe $50 on a pre-order for a long-running franchise sequel, but for some barely-created crap like this?  Please.

    Then the "backers" flush their money down the Dream Toilet, and when things go bad they assault forums with their tales of woe.  I think these "elite" backers (folks who spend thousands on concept art) do it because if the game launches, they want to feel "special."  In most cases, they appear to be doing it in order to buy power (see SC), and so again, I have a very difficult time dredging up any sympathy. 
    That's exactly why they do it, yep. And the exact reason why I refuse to back any of that crap.

    "Give us ten thousand dollars to get a castle no one else can ever acquire through in game means" or similar BS makes me give their entire game a pass. I can deal with pre-orders and collector's editions. Hell, even PWE's crappy practices of $200 "starter packs". But KS take that whole thing to a whole new, utterly disgusting level.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    rodarin said:
    CrazKanuk said:

    Just for clarity, mashing naughty bits together doesn't mean greatness. In fact in the majority of cases it's disappointing to some degree. Just saying that if they wanted to just blow their load and ride off into the sunset then why try to be a hero? Why do you think that is? 

    That is also a semi rhetorical question, lol ;) 
    They will go until funding stops coming in, thats the plan. This past month (if the numbers are truly accurate) shows that people are even more willing to keep throwing money at them. This isnt mutually exclusive to CiG it goes for all of them CiG just (apparently) makes money exponentially faster and to a much greater degree.

    Their 'success' really defies logic. Simply because many other projects with better plans, better presentation (before they built the movie studio) and a lot less controversy cant raise enough money to buy a cup of coffee let alone a 15K dollar coffee maker.

    This is basically the WoW factor in reverse. When everyone tried to copy WOWs success in MAKING a game the new thing is to try and emulate CiGs 'success' is simply raising funds claiming youre going to make a groundbreaking game.

    Ok, first of all, they don't make money exponentially faster. This would indicate that their funding was increasing month-over-month on a steep curve, which isn't the case at all. In fact, with the exception of the last 3 months, their monthly burn rate would actually exceed their funding. They must exceed 2.5 million per month in order to maintain their operations. In the first part of last year they were in the range of $1 million, recovering in the second part of the year. The end of the year may have saved them, but the fact, yes fact, of the matter is that this is not the cash cow that you would like to believe it is, and if they were looking to cut ties and bugger off, it would have been much more beneficial to do so before now. Oh! Also, there is evidence (based on steam owners and press releases) that games make a minimum of 5 times their funding upon release. So, while I know it's crazy, there is a much more significant opportunity for CIG post-release than there is pre-release, especially with all the controversy. 

    I will agree with you, though, that their success does defy logic. However, I'm sure there are hundreds of companies using crowdfunding, who have released hundreds of games using crowdfunding, who would be very offended with your claim that people are simply taking money and not trying to do something. That's fine, though, I've seen it before. It's simply that some people don't have something in their life that they're passionate about. It's sad, but I understand it. I wish I could explain to you how these people ARE selling visions, but they are visions that they actually care about and get excited about and will work to create regardless of what it takes. I understand that you might not get up in the morning and get excited about making fries all day long. I'd find it difficult to imaging anyone enjoying that (but I'm sure they're out there). However, there are people who are driven and passionate about what they're doing and will create something at any cost. Most crowdfunding projects aren't as fortunate as CIG, but that doesn't mean that passion is any less of a motivator for CIG, either. 


    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,846
    edited January 2017
    CrazKanuk said:
    I will agree with you, though, that their success does defy logic. 
    Their success comes out of the frustration of players at the MMO industry, at companies with the money and manpower yet without ambition. The big companies have their money-making formulas, they have no motivation to put money into something different that would imply risky investments.

    CoE is exactly on this box, people WANT to play this game, they want to play something with this design, it's this small development teams that are taking in ALL the risks.


    It doesn't defy logic at all. If the big companies on the room would have been the ones developing on this type of ambitious MMO's and designs, this smaller teams would never get as much support and attention.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,660
    MaxBacon said:
    CrazKanuk said:
    I will agree with you, though, that their success does defy logic. 
    Their success comes out of the frustration of players at the MMO industry, at companies with the money and manpower yet without ambition. The big companies have their money-making formulas, they have no motivation to put money into something different that would imply risky investments.

    CoE is exactly on this box, people WANT to play this game, they want to play something with this design, it's this small development teams that are taking in ALL the risks.


    It doesn't defy logic at all. If the big companies on the room would have been the ones developing on this type of ambitious MMO's and designs, this smaller teams would never get as much support and attention.

    IMHO it's more like going to the shady guy on the corner to buy a "ROLEX" for $200

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,846
    edited January 2017
    Slapshot1188 said:
    IMHO it's more like going to the shady guy on the corner to buy a "ROLEX" for $200

    Even if the developers have the best intentions and put as much effort that they can into the game, that will not mean they will escape the reality of being a small development team with a small budget trying to pull off one ambitious MMO.

    And it's also usually when the controversy begins and developers usually feel the heavy weight of what they are trying to do and have to admit stuff as: won't be done in time or/and will need more money.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Member LegendaryPosts: 17,660
    MaxBacon said:
    Slapshot1188 said:
    IMHO it's more like going to the shady guy on the corner to buy a "ROLEX" for $200

    Even if the developers have the best intentions and put as much effort that they can into the game, that will not mean they will escape the reality of being a small development team with a small budget trying to pull off one ambitious MMO.

    And it's also usually when the controversy begins and developers usually feel the heavy weight of what they are trying to do and have to admit stuff as: won't be done in time or/and will need more money.
    Yeah my comment was more about the buyer needing to use their common sense.  Folks need to look rationally at what a company is promising and the time they are promising it.

    Back to the topic at hand:
    Interesting that I have not seen an official response to the original thread on their forum.

    All time classic  MY NEW FAVORITE POST!  (Keep laying those bricks)

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017. 

    Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018

    "Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018

  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko Member EpicPosts: 6,916
    ...

    Back to the topic at hand:
    Interesting that I have not seen an official response to the original thread on their forum.
    The PR dept is probably formulating a formal reply, but it takes time. Legal will have to check it as well before it can be released to the press... :D
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Member EpicPosts: 6,130
    MaxBacon said:
    Slapshot1188 said:
    IMHO it's more like going to the shady guy on the corner to buy a "ROLEX" for $200

    Even if the developers have the best intentions and put as much effort that they can into the game, that will not mean they will escape the reality of being a small development team with a small budget trying to pull off one ambitious MMO.

    And it's also usually when the controversy begins and developers usually feel the heavy weight of what they are trying to do and have to admit stuff as: won't be done in time or/and will need more money.
    Yeah my comment was more about the buyer needing to use their common sense.  Folks need to look rationally at what a company is promising and the time they are promising it.

    Back to the topic at hand:
    Interesting that I have not seen an official response to the original thread on their forum.

    I thought they had said that the thread was answered elsewhere, no? I believe they addressed the concerns over tiers elsewhere. I don't think it was in the thread, but there were multiple references to other info. I didn't actually read the official response though. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

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