Another thread full of Ms. Cleo's declaring the game is doomed to failure based on some "super damning evidence" arguing with fans who'd ignore this "super damning evidence" if it were actually evidence of anything.
If we could turn useless arguments into power the MMORPG.com forums could solve the energy crisis.
Where did anyone say it was "super damning"? You made that leap on your own, as far as I can tell.
Apparently, a substantiated post like the one @rpmcmurphy made equates to being "Ms. Cleo".
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
Apparently, a substantiated post like the one @rpmcmurphy made equates to being "Ms. Cleo".
I don't think he is talking about the thread's OP but about the course of the discussion.
@LumberjackJohn doesn't count: he is literally trying to get banned by his own admission.
I will note a distinct lack of predictions from him, though.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
I backed the game and I am happy to wait for it to be ready. If it takes 10 years I don't care. I didn't pay to test a buggy alpha, I paid to support the making of the game.
10 more years? be prepared for >$300mil to be needed. This is impossible they cannot create an unlimited amount of concepts without reaching a saturation. But Basically SC is now 5 years in Pre Alpha State - no other game (except DNF) has been in this stage that long ... and they are wasting time with balancing in pre alpha without all system in the game ...
... well if balancing was the only waste ... they are *cough* repairing the character cloth clippings (CCC) by hand ... instead of ... you know ... just blend the underlying texture out (Texture masking is not affecting the mesh)
This is soooo off the reality ... because you have to do it again when you change just a small vector in the bones ... oh and forget about different character heights/weights because ... it would clip through clothes. This is something that will develop into a plethora of work, instead just doing the way like every other dev is doing it.
oh hell yeah plethora of work ... if you want to make your expensive mocappings static and lifeless just don't use procedural IK animations like SC does ... I know they tried once (the EVA in 2.1) but dropped it ... instead off procedural animations they are mocapping now every combination that the character could do (Mocap for standing up Right/Left/Middle, Entering state X from Right/Left/Middle etc... ) where IK would do it more naturally and easier ...
*mic drop*
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it. The cake is a lie.
I backed the game and I am happy to wait for it to be ready. If it takes 10 years I don't care. I didn't pay to test a buggy alpha, I paid to support the making of the game.
10 more years? be prepared for >$300mil to be needed. This is impossible they cannot create an unlimited amount of concepts without reaching a saturation. But Basically SC is now 5 years in Pre Alpha State - no other game (except DNF) has been in this stage that long ... and they are wasting time with balancing in pre alpha without all system in the game ...
... well if balancing was the only waste ... they are *cough* repairing the character cloth clippings (CCC) by hand ... instead of ... you know ... just blend the underlying texture out (Texture masking is not affecting the mesh)
This is soooo off the reality ... because you have to do it again when you change just a small vector in the bones ... oh and forget about different character heights/weights because ... it would clip through clothes. This is something that will develop into a plethora of work, instead just doing the way like every other dev is doing it.
oh hell yeah plethora of work ... if you want to make your expensive mocappings static and lifeless just don't use procedural IK animations like SC does ... I know they tried once (the EVA in 2.1) but dropped it ... instead off procedural animations they are mocapping now every combination that the character could do (Mocap for standing up Right/Left/Middle, Entering state X from Right/Left/Middle etc... ) where IK would do it more naturally and easier ...
*mic drop*
Ahhhhhhhhh, I thought that the Star Marine animations looked a little/lot static. Lol, maybe they can swap this out. I hope. I was going to make the suggestion that maybe they were going to do some engine magic to make the CCC happen, but maybe not? Not if you can't do animations right? Are you sure about this? I have a hard time believing it. If not, I'd take CCC, lol.
The most interesting thing in this thread so far, to me, is that there seems to be some corroboration from Turbulent (who designed the crowdfunding backend...?) that the number of paying backers is much lower than the number of "Star Citizens"... maybe by a factor of 2.
Is Turbulent lying?
RSI certainly seems to imply that the amount they have raised so far comes from a much higher number of sources:
Is it just... common knowledge that that number doesn't reflect the "real" number of paying backers? It doesn't seem to be the case around here... just the other day someone was stating how the average Star Citizen pledge 'wasn't that high'.
If @rpmcmurphy is correct, that would push the 'average pledge' north of $200.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
They already said for long the number of Citizens is all registered accounts, not the backer number. Hence obviously the backer number was lower. The one and only info on the backer number was given more recently by Turbulent that placed them it on half-mission.
The most interesting thing in this thread so far, to me, is that there seems to be some corroboration from Turbulent (who designed the crowdfunding backend...?) that the number of paying backers is much lower than the number of "Star Citizens"... maybe by a factor of 2.
Is Turbulent lying?
RSI certainly seems to imply that the amount they have raised so far comes from a much higher number of sources:
Is it just... common knowledge that that number doesn't reflect the "real" number of paying backers? It doesn't seem to be the case around here... just the other day someone was stating how the average Star Citizen pledge 'wasn't that high'.
If @rpmcmurphy is correct, that would push the 'average pledge' north of $200.
Yup! That's probably the craziest thing, if true. What would be most surprising to me is that the average paying user is invested so heavily, considering the controversy surrounding the game. It probably explains a lot of the concern.
Doesn't RSI own Turbulent? I thought they bought them, for some reason. If so, do they get flayed over this type of comment? Or is it just drumming up more business? When did this comment come about?
They already said for long the number of Citizens is all registered accounts, not the backer number. Hence obviously the backer number was lower. The one and only info on the backer number was given more recently by Turbulent that placed them it on half-mission.
Oh right, silly me...
How could I have ever thought those two quantities were related? Obviously the number of paying backers is some much lower figure...
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
How could I have ever thought those two quantities were related? Obviously the number of paying backers is some much lower figure...
That's a number they want to brag about. It's cheap 101 Marketing, you have 1.7 Million Users it's obviously the better number the use. The fact is that they stated then that number was accounts created not backers, so this is just a shiny big number.
Like MMO's bragging "oh we have 10 MILLION players, play now!" and like 300K of active player base
Also for accuracy terms: On translation the comment was made: "Of the one million user accounts that includes the Roberts Space Industries platform, 500,000..."
So there's by now it seems there's another 700K account to consider.
The most interesting thing in this thread so far, to me, is that there seems to be some corroboration from Turbulent (who designed the crowdfunding backend...?) that the number of paying backers is much lower than the number of "Star Citizens"... maybe by a factor of 2.
If @rpmcmurphy is correct, that would push the 'average pledge' north of $200.
I would have to say (with no solid evidence at all, but hey it's the SC forum on MMORPG.com so who needs stinking evidence) that less that 50% of "citizens" have backed at over $200. Well less probably. I would even state that less than 50% have backed at all.
I'm in the Whales ($1000+) are funding SC camp myself.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
Ahhhhhhhhh, I thought that the Star Marine animations looked a little/lot static. Lol, maybe they can swap this out. I hope. I was going to make the suggestion that maybe they were going to do some engine magic to make the CCC happen, but maybe not? Not if you can't do animations right? Are you sure about this? I have a hard time believing it. If not, I'd take CCC, lol.
An arrow for every Mocap state that will be possible.
How other Studios do it: Contract two good actors (male / female). Get their skeletons (sounds rough I guess) Let them do all mocaps. Clean mocap data (this is something you don't want to do beause uncleaned mocap data is really a mess)
We are now on Skeleton Level, for the Mesh you can morph and transform in any professional editor very easy
Now just change the proportions along with your unified Skeleton to meet bone lenghts, proportions and details (face, headshape, 3rd arm ... wait forget the last one that wouldnt fit) of other Actors.
Now we can animate our skeleton at will, all morphs would follow, though some Animations will need a little rework if it is not done by a dynamic system (like hands on hips) to not clip (hands through hips). A good IK system has medical data on joints down to the fingertips so pressing a button from any angle is no problem we know where the fingertip is, the button and if the Character IK can reach it (hell you can also make them bend forward to reach a button without the need of a new mocap animation) With a good IK system you can easily do things like "leaning on wall if wall in leaning range and idle for > 20sec, then cross your arms"
How CIG does it: Mocapping everything with many different actors without unifying the bones - which will lead to a need of many recalls if something is missing and to a static gameplay (oh and no different heights of the characters > except scale the whole thing down to lets say 75% which will lead to an uncanny feeling (smaller people have different bone lengths they aren't just 75% of a 100% size model).
ohhhh and uncanny .... this guy on the bed is uncanny in person I am glad that we have beautiful models (but we decided to be far far away from beeing realistic ... more cartoonish but cleaner models).
On the reality of SQ42 you have to agree they have to do it that way, what makes characters unique obviously not only one appearance but on animation.
Different SQ42 characters will walk differently and such, influenced directly by the actor. The SQ42 actors have obviously different weights, heights, ways of walk, etc.. etc.. if it went full mocap they need to capture that as well.
Because I think they do have skeletons for each of the main characters of the SQ42.
On the rest, as player and normal NPC animations, that yes should all be the same skeleton and animations on all. Expect for Female characters that have their own skeleton.
1. @Erillion asked me 2 questions with his passive aggressive "Have fun" signature. 2. I answered the questions. Without any trolling or passive agressiveness. 3. He replied with more baiting and passive aggressive behavior calling me a troll and "blacklisitng" me.
Now please try to defend his behaviour and tell me that I started this.
Laughable at best.
It's actually not a signature since the mobile version on my phone doesn't display sigs and his is always there
Dude you are missing my awesome signature? Thats unacceptable.
The most interesting thing in this thread so far, to me, is that there seems to be some corroboration from Turbulent (who designed the crowdfunding backend...?) that the number of paying backers is much lower than the number of "Star Citizens"... maybe by a factor of 2.
Is Turbulent lying?
RSI certainly seems to imply that the amount they have raised so far comes from a much higher number of sources:
Is it just... common knowledge that that number doesn't reflect the "real" number of paying backers? It doesn't seem to be the case around here... just the other day someone was stating how the average Star Citizen pledge 'wasn't that high'.
If @rpmcmurphy is correct, that would push the 'average pledge' north of $200.
Yeah, the Turbulent interview was the first time that there was any clarity on the issue. Previously 'Fleet Members' and 'Star Citizens' were both used willy-nilly to represent the number of backers. Most people had settled on the former being the amount of paying backers and the latter for forum accounts, however it then turned out that Fleet Members actually referred to the number of ships sold and not the number of paying backers at all.
Not a massive deal because everyone does it but at the same time a little more honesty and transparency from a crowdfunded company and one that blows its own horn over open development would have been welcome.
Something else worth bearing in mind is that (a fair while ago) CR said 60% of backers only owned an Aurora, which skews the numbers quite considerably, ie 400,000 * $45 = $18 million 200,000 * $615 = $123 million
Something else worth bearing in mind is that (a fair while ago) CR said 60% of backers only owned an Aurora, which skews the numbers quite considerably, ie 400,000 * $45 = $18 million 200,000 * $615 = $123 million
Link please. I cannot recall him having given such a number, but i certainly do not know all articles and interviews. He HAS mentioned that quite a few people have basic packages only.
I really cannot remember when or where he said it. What I do remember is that he was on stage giving out some stats and that's when it got mentioned (fat load of help I know). But you know me by now, how many times have I said something which has turned out to be untrue or that I purposely cannot back up?
But you know me by now, how many times have I said something which has turned out to be untrue or that I purposely cannot back up?
Hey I had slight remembrance of things like CIG had 200 outsourced employees and stuff like that and I ended up thinking it was official info; turns out it never was and just came from "those sources". Gets to the point it's hella confusing you don't know if you heard it on official channels or not.
I really cannot remember when or where he said it. What I do remember is that he was on stage giving out some stats and that's when it got mentioned (fat load of help I know). But you know me by now, how many times have I said something which has turned out to be untrue or that I purposely cannot back up?
From your link (the poll that the lonegamers article refers to):
"The poll received 1,064 responses from a total of 459,491 registered
(at the time of poll closure) Star Citizens."
That is 0.23% of citizens.
The poll ran from May 21st, 2014 to June 4th, 2014.
"Ship Ownership
Star Citizens love their ships, there is no doubt in that. Below is a
table of the raw count of each ship hull and the percentage of players
polled that own that particular hull. I’ll complete more graphical
analysis on these numbers later.
Ships
Count
Percentages
300i
109
10.24%
315P
133
12.50%
325A
181
17.01%
350R
84
7.89%
Aurora LN
275
25.85%
Aurora LX
120
11.28%
Aurora MR
119
11.18%
Avenger
233
21.90%
Banu Merchantman
74
6.95%
Caterpillar
38
3.57%
Constellation
246
23.12%
Cutlass
169
15.88%
Freelancer
237
22.27%
Gladiator
56
5.26%
Hornet F7A
21
1.97%
Hornet F7C
20
1.88%
Hornet F7C-M
128
12.03%
Hornet F7C-R
29
2.73%
Hornet F7C-S
98
9.21%
Idris-M
9
0.85%
Idris-P
14
1.32%
M50
73
6.86%
Retaliator
78
7.33%
Starfarer
67
6.30%
Vanduul Scythe
16
1.50%
Xi’an Scout (Khartu)
49
4.61%
No Answer
33
3.10%
Below is a focus on the three ships that would be available in the
initial release of the Arena Commander Module I – the Aurora, the 300i
and the Hornet and their variants.
Victory! The worse kind of sources are video though, it's incredibly hard to track.
And video is definitely where he mentioned it, he was on stage giving a presentation and that's when he said it. Obviously that narrows things down a bit, but there's no way I'm combing back through all of that to source a quote
Comments
Apparently, a substantiated post like the one @rpmcmurphy made equates to being "Ms. Cleo".
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
I will note a distinct lack of predictions from him, though.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
But Basically SC is now 5 years in Pre Alpha State - no other game (except DNF) has been in this stage that long ... and they are wasting time with balancing in pre alpha without all system in the game ...
... well if balancing was the only waste ... they are *cough* repairing the character cloth clippings (CCC) by hand ... instead of ... you know ... just blend the underlying texture out (Texture masking is not affecting the mesh)
This is soooo off the reality ... because you have to do it again when you change just a small vector in the bones ... oh and forget about different character heights/weights because ... it would clip through clothes.
This is something that will develop into a plethora of work, instead just doing the way like every other dev is doing it.
oh hell yeah plethora of work ... if you want to make your expensive mocappings static and lifeless just don't use procedural IK animations like SC does ... I know they tried once (the EVA in 2.1) but dropped it ... instead off procedural animations they are mocapping now every combination that the character could do (Mocap for standing up Right/Left/Middle, Entering state X from Right/Left/Middle etc... ) where IK would do it more naturally and easier ...
*mic drop*
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
Ahhhhhhhhh, I thought that the Star Marine animations looked a little/lot static. Lol, maybe they can swap this out. I hope. I was going to make the suggestion that maybe they were going to do some engine magic to make the CCC happen, but maybe not? Not if you can't do animations right? Are you sure about this? I have a hard time believing it. If not, I'd take CCC, lol.
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
In Summary - Still no game. But yes there are ship sales. Working as intended.
Is Turbulent lying?
RSI certainly seems to imply that the amount they have raised so far comes from a much higher number of sources:
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals
Is it just... common knowledge that that number doesn't reflect the "real" number of paying backers? It doesn't seem to be the case around here... just the other day someone was stating how the average Star Citizen pledge 'wasn't that high'.
If @rpmcmurphy is correct, that would push the 'average pledge' north of $200.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
They already said for long the number of Citizens is all registered accounts, not the backer number. Hence obviously the backer number was lower. The one and only info on the backer number was given more recently by Turbulent that placed them it on half-mission.
Yup! That's probably the craziest thing, if true. What would be most surprising to me is that the average paying user is invested so heavily, considering the controversy surrounding the game. It probably explains a lot of the concern.
Doesn't RSI own Turbulent? I thought they bought them, for some reason. If so, do they get flayed over this type of comment? Or is it just drumming up more business? When did this comment come about?
Crazkanuk
----------------
Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
----------------
How could I have ever thought those two quantities were related? Obviously the number of paying backers is some much lower figure...
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Like MMO's bragging "oh we have 10 MILLION players, play now!" and like 300K of active player base
Also for accuracy terms:
On translation the comment was made: "Of the one million user accounts that includes the Roberts Space Industries platform, 500,000..."
So there's by now it seems there's another 700K account to consider.
I'm in the Whales ($1000+) are funding SC camp myself.
Bartoni's Law definition: As an Internet discussion grows volatile, the probability of a comparison involving Donald Trump approaches 1.
If that's the case and we use the same statistic, then the backer number lies around 700K. Though it's unclear.
An arrow for every Mocap state that will be possible.
How other Studios do it:
Contract two good actors (male / female).
Get their skeletons (sounds rough I guess)
Let them do all mocaps.
Clean mocap data (this is something you don't want to do beause uncleaned mocap data is really a mess)
We are now on Skeleton Level, for the Mesh you can morph and transform in any professional editor very easy
Now just change the proportions along with your unified Skeleton to meet bone lenghts, proportions and details (face, headshape, 3rd arm ... wait forget the last one that wouldnt fit) of other Actors.
Now we can animate our skeleton at will, all morphs would follow, though some Animations will need a little rework if it is not done by a dynamic system (like hands on hips) to not clip (hands through hips).
A good IK system has medical data on joints down to the fingertips so pressing a button from any angle is no problem we know where the fingertip is, the button and if the Character IK can reach it (hell you can also make them bend forward to reach a button without the need of a new mocap animation)
With a good IK system you can easily do things like "leaning on wall if wall in leaning range and idle for > 20sec, then cross your arms"
How CIG does it:
Mocapping everything with many different actors without unifying the bones - which will lead to a need of many recalls if something is missing and to a static gameplay (oh and no different heights of the characters > except scale the whole thing down to lets say 75% which will lead to an uncanny feeling (smaller people have different bone lengths they aren't just 75% of a 100% size model).
ohhhh and uncanny .... this guy on the bed is uncanny in person I am glad that we have beautiful models (but we decided to be far far away from beeing realistic ... more cartoonish but cleaner models).
When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
The cake is a lie.
Different SQ42 characters will walk differently and such, influenced directly by the actor. The SQ42 actors have obviously different weights, heights, ways of walk, etc.. etc.. if it went full mocap they need to capture that as well.
Because I think they do have skeletons for each of the main characters of the SQ42.
On the rest, as player and normal NPC animations, that yes should all be the same skeleton and animations on all. Expect for Female characters that have their own skeleton.
Yeah, the Turbulent interview was the first time that there was any clarity on the issue. Previously 'Fleet Members' and 'Star Citizens' were both used willy-nilly to represent the number of backers. Most people had settled on the former being the amount of paying backers and the latter for forum accounts, however it then turned out that Fleet Members actually referred to the number of ships sold and not the number of paying backers at all.
Not a massive deal because everyone does it but at the same time a little more honesty and transparency from a crowdfunded company and one that blows its own horn over open development would have been welcome.
Something else worth bearing in mind is that (a fair while ago) CR said 60% of backers only owned an Aurora, which skews the numbers quite considerably, ie
400,000 * $45 = $18 million
200,000 * $615 = $123 million
That 60 % have only Auroras is also contradicting some of the forecasts from the SC Pledge Watch (see diagrams on the later worksheets).
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tMAP0fg-AKScI3S3VjrDW3OaLO4zgBA1RSYoQOQoNSI/edit#gid=1694467207
Have fun
But you know me by now, how many times have I said something which has turned out to be untrue or that I purposely cannot back up?
Edit: A couple of searches brings it up
https://www.thelonegamers.com/star-citizen/ (needs a ctrl+f 60%)
https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/3250945/#Comment_3250945
Working as intended.
Victory! The worse kind of sources are video though, it's incredibly hard to track.
"The poll received 1,064 responses from a total of 459,491 registered (at the time of poll closure) Star Citizens."
That is 0.23% of citizens.
The poll ran from May 21st, 2014 to June 4th, 2014."Ship Ownership
Star Citizens love their ships, there is no doubt in that. Below is a table of the raw count of each ship hull and the percentage of players polled that own that particular hull. I’ll complete more graphical analysis on these numbers later.
Below is a focus on the three ships that would be available in the initial release of the Arena Commander Module I – the Aurora, the 300i and the Hornet and their variants.
Have fun
And video is definitely where he mentioned it, he was on stage giving a presentation and that's when he said it. Obviously that narrows things down a bit, but there's no way I'm combing back through all of that to source a quote