For a fun grind I like Marvel Heroes for feeling heroic and the loot. For a rewarding combat grind Tera. The timing for combos and an actual real dodge mechanic & BAMs to test your mettle. BDO for a productive grind for progression.
OK, let say there is a game without grind. I know it is hard to imagine, but in fact with the modern cloud technologies it is completely possible. Would you play such a game - where the quests and the mobs are... well, not unique exactly, but not repetitive for sure.
There are plenty of games (non-MMO) that focus solely on single challenging fights instead of series of meaningless grind fights.
OK, let say there is a game without grind. I know it is hard to imagine, but in fact with the modern cloud technologies it is completely possible. Would you play such a game - where the quests and the mobs are... well, not unique exactly, but not repetitive for sure.
There are plenty of games (non-MMO) that focus solely on single challenging fights instead of series of meaningless grind fights.
Some games like Gw2 in which events are boss battles with a high challenge rate in a single fight instead of small meaningless mobs.
There are games like that out there, but we are talking about something that doesn't appeal to masses: Challenge.
I've heard otherwise about Guild Wars 2 in that it was pretty much a dps fight for these boss battles. Is that not the case and if so how are they fought?
As far as "challenge" for regular leveling I've never seen an mmo that didn't have "grind" as in repetitive content. Even Guild Wars 2 has repetitive events.
My experience is that the only game I've experienced with "challenge" is the dark souls series.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Yup, sadly that's what happens when someone goes on a multi-post anti-grind crusade in a thread that simply asked "what's your favorite game for grinding.
SWG Pre-CU - I really enjoyed grinding combat classes in that game. Even though PvE combat was really basic and just about the meta-game, I loved running around tattooine killing everything in site, or getting in leveling groups and grinding missions. Mostly this was due to the aesthetics - I love star wars!
SWG by far, as grinding bettered skills rather than raising levels. There were also a variety of activities grinds could entail. You could just be sitting around chatting and healing people with combat fatigue. The skill choices also lead to a far more interesting character building system than anything I've played since IMO.
I started my SWG grind on Naboo with Fambaa missions as I called it. I was a Carbineer / Creature Handler. I had awful poor creatures. First I had Nuna (chickens), Kaadu (giant ducks), Ikopi (long legged cows), Gualama (llama), and eventually a Nargalatch (medium sized wolf). But eventually I found a Great Plains Stalker.
A guildy bought me some Mabari armour on my first day, but that did last a year. Then I switched to my gear of choice Tantel armour with Hot Pants.
I did Carbineer & Creature Handler and a few others at the keyboard.
But I did Teras Kasi Artist and Commando by Macro in Moenia on Naboo. This was like watching a Movie The TKA had colored streams following its combat animation so it was beautiful. Carbineer had none of that, it was nothing but pew-pew-pew.
Pardon any spelling errors
Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven Boy: Why can't I talk to Him? Mom: We don't talk to Priests. As if it could exist, without being payed for. F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing. Even telemarketers wouldn't think that. It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
OK, as obviously here are many people who understand it, I have a question - how repetitive killing of one mob over and over again for hours could be fun?
Same way a FPS can be fun, most fps games are even more brainless than even the most brainless grinders.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
OK, as obviously here are many people who understand it, I have a question - how repetitive killing of one mob over and over again for hours could be fun?
Because the combat is fun, grinding is relaxing, and it's nice to not have to run around doing different things. Some games make you talk to too many NPC's and run around the map when all you want to do is kill stuff. It's also a great way to chill and chat with friends in Discord.
But there is no challenge, no progression, you just hit few buttons over and over again. The grind could be evolved to something impressive. I mean one mate in L2 grinded alone with two parties controlled only by him, without any bots. I cannot do it. But still I do not understand how that is entertaining. It is like working on assembly line. Hour after hour doing the same move.
Psychologically probably you feel relaxed because you win over and over again, and there is no real danger. Or the simple repetition, like the mantras of the buddhist monks, makes you feel calm. But in general it seems to me like a terribly boring thing. Well, I admit running to NPCs for pointless text dialogs is even more boring.
Well there is progression but you don't always want challenge. That gets physically and mentally tiring after a while. In short bits its fun, but for long periods of time, not at all. In most other MMO's you're still just killing easy mobs but less of them, and instead spend that time turning in quests. So there's really no difference. The only challenging part in other games is when you enter an instanced dungeon.
The lesser evil does not seem to me as a rational choice when we are talking about games.
It's not the lesser evil, it's fun. I already explained why.
So the grind is better than the challenge? Because the repetitiveness is equal to lack of challenge. I mean, I understand how the combat system may be fun. But what is the point to fight, when there is no challenge?
The challenge in grinding is finding the right spot for you and moving at an efficient pace, a lot of people suck at this believe it or not.
Yeah, for a grinder type mmorpg you need to look at efficency, sure you can kill that harder mob for more exp, but how many of those weaker ones could you kill in the same amount of time for the same or more often than not, more than what the single bigger one would give.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Yeah, for a grinder type mmorpg you need to look at efficency, sure you can kill that harder mob for more exp, but how many of those weaker ones could you kill in the same amount of time for the same or more often than not, more than what the single bigger one would give.
that's how I do it. Been doing it that way since Lineage 2.
it's xp over time not xp per kill.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Not many games allow for continuous grinding... I just want a game I can grind all the time with no end game. Continuous advancement. It's what made EQ so appealing with AA's... I HATE the idea of "Endgame," this should not even be a term.
The minute I log into a game and can no longer advance my character, I'm done. Not talking dailies, gear grinds or raids... I need real grinding and progression. Just like in real life, if you apply yourself you should reap the rewards. Hence, lots of grinding = lots of stats / power.
Begin the QQ of: "But, but I started too late." Figure it out Sally.
Throw a thousand of today's gamers in a pool and 900 would paddle over to the shallow end to kill guppies for 10 hours because they'll level faster and beat the game quicker while a few will band together and try to slay a shark or die trying. Twenty years will pass and the few will still have great memories of comraderie and mythos while the guppy killers will still be killing guppies and comparing how many max level characters they have without one war story to tell. Thanks WoW and greedy game devs.
Not many games allow for continuous grinding... I just want a game I can grind all the time with no end game. Continuous advancement. It's what made EQ so appealing with AA's... I HATE the idea of "Endgame," this should not even be a term.
The minute I log into a game and can no longer advance my character, I'm done. Not talking dailies, gear grinds or raids... I need real grinding and progression. Just like in real life, if you apply yourself you should reap the rewards. Hence, lots of grinding = lots of stats / power.
Begin the QQ of: "But, but I started too late." Figure it out Sally.
Bad news, in real life age catches up on you, skills and efficiency falter regardless of the effort you put in and eventually "the grind" comes to an end.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Not many games allow for continuous grinding... I just want a game I can grind all the time with no end game. Continuous advancement. It's what made EQ so appealing with AA's... I HATE the idea of "Endgame," this should not even be a term.
The minute I log into a game and can no longer advance my character, I'm done. Not talking dailies, gear grinds or raids... I need real grinding and progression. Just like in real life, if you apply yourself you should reap the rewards. Hence, lots of grinding = lots of stats / power.
Begin the QQ of: "But, but I started too late." Figure it out Sally.
I'm not sure, but I think you can do this in Black Desert. And EVE.
I can see the appeal in that. That's one of the reasons I liked (and also hated) original Darkfall.
If I am grinding, whatever I'm making better be delicious! Grinds are something I sometimes tolerate, not enjoy.
For me a grind becomes a grind when I am forced to continue on with an activity past the point that I enjoy it in order to achieve the ability to do something I want to do more.
If I am out questing because I want to be questing, I'm not grinding, I'm questing.
If I am out questing because while I'd rather never do another quest ever again, I need to hit level X in order to run a certain type of content, and questing is the fastest way to get there, then it's a grind.
Throw a thousand of today's gamers in a pool and 900 would paddle over to the shallow end to kill guppies for 10 hours because they'll level faster and beat the game quicker while a few will band together and try to slay a shark or die trying. Twenty years will pass and the few will still have great memories of comraderie and mythos while the guppy killers will still be killing guppies and comparing how many max level characters they have without one war story to tell. Thanks WoW and greedy game devs.
MMO players have always found the path of least resistance when it comes to leveling.
It depends on what kinda mood I'm in. If I feel like grinding with fun combat, I usually go for BDO because it is fun doing combos, and obliterating mobs while looking super flashy, it's fun in a group too.
If I'm feeling like I need to relax I think the best relaxing grind was always Lineage 2. Just because you could sit back and grind for hours on the same monsters with a really really low chance of item drops. That was more of a social grind though, you could do it in a group and just talk for hours, or you could talk to your clan / alliance.
Throw a thousand of today's gamers in a pool and 900 would paddle over to the shallow end to kill guppies for 10 hours because they'll level faster and beat the game quicker while a few will band together and try to slay a shark or die trying. Twenty years will pass and the few will still have great memories of comraderie and mythos while the guppy killers will still be killing guppies and comparing how many max level characters they have without one war story to tell. Thanks WoW and greedy game devs.
That doesn't really tell a complete story does it?
The grind games I know have pvp. You grind to level faster so you can be more competitive in pvp. That's where your stories come from.
optimzing one's xp over time has been going on since "since". It has nothing to do with today's players.
And there are always stories to tell. I recall leveling in a place in Lineage 2 called "The Library". We wold stand in a corner by some stairs and our tank would go out, gather the entire area, bring it back and we would aoe them down without getting overwhelmed.
As long as everyone did their job it was pretty easy. Doesn't mean that there weren't stories to tell, especially when the Tank aggroed too many and we had to perform a rescue mission.
If people are having fun then they are having fun. The real issue is if they are doing all this and they are NOT having fun.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Tree of savior is a great grinder. It's basically the spiritual successor to Ragnarok Online and has a similar feel with the massive amount of classes/builds/gear choices.
Don't expect raids or amazing dungeon mechanics but for a grinding game it's great fun especially with another person.
Most grindy games I've ever played. L2 and Aion. Their are games that you can grind but questing gives you better gear and even awards skills in some games. I've grinded my way up to max level in some games only end up under geared or not knowing how to play the class because of only using a few skills for grinding. I rarely just grind now a days but will add it in at times.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
this is gw2 done right, spvp give reward that increase pve level in spvp matchmaking
grind in pve or pvp? your choice
I think most players do both to different degrees. Sometimes doing the other one is a nice change of pace.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I have to say EVE. I started grinding astroids ended up grinding politics.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Jade Dynasty, because of the built-in botting system. Arrange your skills, set up the potions and energy, get to a spot, then let er rip. Can then chat in alliance and.or world chat.
Guild Wars (the first one) because grinding does not feel like grinding. One explores an area slowly, sneaking up on groups and carefully killing them then taking the loot. Many games have this mechanic but somehow it is different, and fun, in guild wars.
This forum is broken. It is time to move to proboards, because they're broken.
Comments
As far as "challenge" for regular leveling I've never seen an mmo that didn't have "grind" as in repetitive content. Even Guild Wars 2 has repetitive events.
My experience is that the only game I've experienced with "challenge" is the dark souls series.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I started my SWG grind on Naboo with Fambaa missions as I called it. I was a Carbineer / Creature Handler. I had awful poor creatures. First I had Nuna (chickens), Kaadu (giant ducks), Ikopi (long legged cows), Gualama (llama), and eventually a Nargalatch (medium sized wolf). But eventually I found a Great Plains Stalker.
A guildy bought me some Mabari armour on my first day, but that did last a year. Then I switched to my gear of choice Tantel armour with Hot Pants. I did Carbineer & Creature Handler and a few others at the keyboard.
But I did Teras Kasi Artist and Commando by Macro in Moenia on Naboo. This was like watching a Movie The TKA had colored streams following its combat animation so it was beautiful. Carbineer had none of that, it was nothing but pew-pew-pew.
Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
As if it could exist, without being payed for.
F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.
It costs money to play. Therefore P2W.
pvp players like adventure/harder enemy to beat.
this is gw2 done right, spvp give reward that increase pve level in spvp matchmaking
grind in pve or pvp? your choice
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!
it's xp over time not xp per kill.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
The minute I log into a game and can no longer advance my character, I'm done. Not talking dailies, gear grinds or raids... I need real grinding and progression. Just like in real life, if you apply yourself you should reap the rewards. Hence, lots of grinding = lots of stats / power.
Begin the QQ of: "But, but I started too late." Figure it out Sally.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I can see the appeal in that. That's one of the reasons I liked (and also hated) original Darkfall.
If I am grinding, whatever I'm making better be delicious! Grinds are something I sometimes tolerate, not enjoy.
For me a grind becomes a grind when I am forced to continue on with an activity past the point that I enjoy it in order to achieve the ability to do something I want to do more.
If I am out questing because I want to be questing, I'm not grinding, I'm questing.
If I am out questing because while I'd rather never do another quest ever again, I need to hit level X in order to run a certain type of content, and questing is the fastest way to get there, then it's a grind.
And that is a universally bad type of "content".
If I'm feeling like I need to relax I think the best relaxing grind was always Lineage 2. Just because you could sit back and grind for hours on the same monsters with a really really low chance of item drops. That was more of a social grind though, you could do it in a group and just talk for hours, or you could talk to your clan / alliance.
The grind games I know have pvp. You grind to level faster so you can be more competitive in pvp. That's where your stories come from.
optimzing one's xp over time has been going on since "since". It has nothing to do with today's players.
And there are always stories to tell. I recall leveling in a place in Lineage 2 called "The Library". We wold stand in a corner by some stairs and our tank would go out, gather the entire area, bring it back and we would aoe them down without getting overwhelmed.
As long as everyone did their job it was pretty easy. Doesn't mean that there weren't stories to tell, especially when the Tank aggroed too many and we had to perform a rescue mission.
If people are having fun then they are having fun. The real issue is if they are doing all this and they are NOT having fun.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Don't expect raids or amazing dungeon mechanics but for a grinding game it's great fun especially with another person.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Guild Wars (the first one) because grinding does not feel like grinding. One explores an area slowly, sneaking up on groups and carefully killing them then taking the loot. Many games have this mechanic but somehow it is different, and fun, in guild wars.