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Sigh.....been pushed back AGAIN
Alasti
Member UncommonPosts: 287
I just want this game to come out. I can't wait to play. NO MORE PUSH BACKS!!...Just kidding! I would rather they take their time and make a GOOD game than to release anything less than a finished product (not that any mmorpg is finished upon release but you know what I mean).
Comments
I Agree
I would rather wait longer for a solid release then having to deal with a constant bug update. I am starting to think as well that we will not see this title till 06. I do not know if this will effect LOTR ORPG release that was suppost to be Summer 06...we will see.
Games that are constantly pushed back do for one of two reasons:
1 - no money for developing to finish.
2 - major overhauls to game conventions/structure to make the game more playable.
If DDO is pushing back for #2, then we're all in luck, and I would rather they continue to "push back" as such means they are improving the game before release.
Who wants a crappy release? Remember AO? HZs? I'm all for waiting.
Games:
WAR, LotRO, AO, GW, EQ, EQ2, AC, AC2, Vanguard, CoH, EVE, HZs, SO, MxO, SWG, DAoC, WoW, WWIIOL
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There's a world behind the world, Professor Robinson. Lie once, cheat twice and everything becomes clear. Do not mistake my deception for a character flaw. It is philosophical choice, a profound understanding of the universe. It is a way of life. - Doctor Smith
Ok, and why can't people expect it to come out when promised AND in a release worthy state? Honestly the whole "I would rather wait and have it right" thing is getting abit old to me. Every company apparently hasn't a clue on how long it will take to develop something now. Actually they just sit and overpromise and then push back dates because its more marketing feasible then a far off date. I am tired of it and Turbine is real good at making promises and not being able to come through in time, if at all.
Sorry, its getting old though, when I see continual pushbacks because they can't get it right and didn't give themselves enough time to start with anymore its just turning me off to their products. I have yet to see a game that suffered many pushbacks and then came out better then the others because of it.
I am just tired of mmo players that get so hyped about a product they are willing to shred the line of quality and good service alittle more. And give a company and its product slack on what they can get away with because they want the product so bad.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
World of Warcraft was pushed back.. what a year? And when it came out I would dare say it was an outstanding game. They even left high end content unfinished and are still roling it out. Yet the game continues to thrive. I agree with you that game developers need to include move error time in their project planning though. Even OS releases get pushed back, so I don't think this problem is related to games only. As long as we're not talking vaporware (eg, DNF), then I guess we gamers really expect the delays.
/shrug
so...
-----------------Censored------------------
Coming from a SoE all time supporter like you Fade-us, I find this pretty humoristic! You sound more like you are jealous because I actually am hyped about DDO, exactly like I was about EQ2...well, I was never THAT hyped as I am now for DDO. (My rational side was telling me EQ2 would be another must raid crap setting, and this same rational side is now telling me that D&D in real time and no XP for killing mobs is crap, but guess what, I did buy EQ2...and I hate raiding far more then I hate real time or the need to quest)
SoE have done pushback OFTEN, not to mention the pushback released it should have done(like for Champions of Norrath where HPs dont work on items). And DDO is not been pushed back again, MMORPG.com put that date, Cindy told us before EQ2 was released that it was not coming before next X-Mas season. Again you choose to listen to who you want!
A game with the TSR open flag will get at least as much hype and initial support a game with the SoE flag got, and nothing you say can change that!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
World of Warcraft was pushed back.. what a year? And when it came out I would dare say it was an outstanding game. They even left high end content unfinished and are still roling it out. Yet the game continues to thrive. I agree with you that game developers need to include move error time in their project planning though. Even OS releases get pushed back, so I don't think this problem is related to games only. As long as we're not talking vaporware (eg, DNF), then I guess we gamers really expect the delays.
/shrug
Blizzard was very clear that it wouldn't be released til it was done, all dates set were only tentative. However, they too had the problem and they did end up releasing the game unfinsihed and still are just not finishing getting the game to what they promised for release.
Yes, other things get pushed back as well, but it seems to be a very big new trend in MMO's. I can just see where this will lead too in time.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Umm, whatever, I never said I approved of SOE's methods in releasing games. So I really don't see what your point was other then to try to turn the thread into a personal attack on me. Nice try though Ano!
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
*chuckles* your still sore over the quote?
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
And MMORPG.com assume the date we see, EB assume another, me, reading from the Cindy gal I assume...well, by X-mas I will be able to play DDO!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
errrr, if you say so there Ano!
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I think I probably expressed myself poorly. My comments were to the OP in regards to people starting to take on thsi attitude with all game companies because the business practices for most MMO's is slowly going down the tubes.
The only thing I would say to you is Turbine is good at giving little too information too late and at the last minute calling delays after they made it appear that all was going well. They may handle it differently this time, who knows. I am just trying to see companies be held to a higher standard and not slowly watch the standard be lowered more and more.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I lost my faith in turbine doing things right with launches with the AC2´s launch, and the way they keeping beeting on the dead cow that is AC1, give it up already, the game has long past its prime.
Tho i am waiting eagerly for D&DO, they seem to be implementing the 3.5 rules rather well, tho the lack of monks and druids at start is pretty depresing, but i dont expect it to be a smooth lauch, its turbine we be talking about here
The last time I logged on to AC1 it was dead on the server. Then I jumped over to EQ (Not EQ2) and it was dead. If I were them I would just make them free MMORPG, or make more room for new. I still know people playing EQ, but they are hardly ever on due to EQ2 or some other MMORPG. Then I jumped on to DAOC again more people there, but not as many. Then I think back to all the hours of running around I did. Thank god for Instancing!!! I can get right to the quest/adventure/mission right away. (I think I am getting to Lazy!)
Hey you over there! Roll my dice for me! It better be a good role. (1) damn it!
Games:
WAR, LotRO, AO, GW, EQ, EQ2, AC, AC2, Vanguard, CoH, EVE, HZs, SO, MxO, SWG, DAoC, WoW, WWIIOL
--------------------------------------
There's a world behind the world, Professor Robinson. Lie once, cheat twice and everything becomes clear. Do not mistake my deception for a character flaw. It is philosophical choice, a profound understanding of the universe. It is a way of life. - Doctor Smith
Because it lowers the bar on whats acceptable and gives approval that its ok for this type of business is acceptable. Then in time you have a lower defacto standard that companies can yet further try to lower more. This isn't some free handouts, this is something a company, if they do their job well, will make a large amount of profit off of and are charging me for. I surely don't want to just accept it and move on when my dollars are involved.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
I think turbine is in for some deep trouble concerning their 2 new mmorpg´s in development, lord of the rings online(middle earth online) will prolly fail, and fail miserably, lets face it, only melle classes are in the game, the devs have stated that there will be no healers, no magic wielders of any kind... that leaves melee/ranged and rogues, wich when you look at it... they be all melee classes.
Most important point, there are so many ways they can do wrong with the license, Tolkien fans are very picky on what they like concerning the Lotr books, but most importantly, they have little information concerning middle earth when it doesnt involve the characters in the book, remmenber that the books were very character driven, as so you only got to look at the imediate surrounding area, that leaves alot to the imagination of the devs to complete the overall design of the game world, tolkien provide excelent maps, but to fill them up woth content, now thats another thing remmenber the newest AC2 expansion... yes lots of imagination there /sarcasm.
Concerning D&DO, the 3.5 ruleset, although simple compared to earlier rulesets (Ad&D anyone?) is still a massive undertaking to implement on a mmorpg, Kotor 1 and 2 implemented the d20 rules with sucess, tho the ammount of feats and skills is nowhere near the complexity of D&D, NWN did have some good ideas, but they used very few of the D&D feats/skills, so my fear is that the task is so large and complex that we will either get the most of the skills feats in the source books with an enourmous ammount of bugs/issues to acompany them, or we will get a dumbed down version of the 3.5 rules, wich will kill the games apeal to most of the player base. Then again, they might just pull it all off, i sure hope they do *grin*
All ur Mountain Dew is belong to me.
Actually I feel KoTOR 1 & 2 are the worst possible example of the d20 rules. Other then direct combat it was a very poor implementation.
Your post has alot of merit though, I am not sure if Turbine is gonna pull this one off or not personally. I would have prefered other means of going about d&d online. Like the attempt webRPG did and not try to make it into an MMO yet.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
<sigh>
In this industry, you have two different avenues of release. The Vanguard-method, or the peg-a-date-method.
"We've got this game, and we're going to release it. The date is not set, because these things take time." - Everyone gets pissed off that there is apparently never going to be a release and the rumors fly that the company just can't produce the game.
"We've got this game, and we're fairly sure to be expecting it's release in the last half of the year." - Everyone gets pissed off that they can't keep their promise when the date gets pushed back and the rumors begin to fly that with such a crappy production company, the game is sure to fail.
With each and every game on the market - with very few exceptions - the offering is a start-from-scratch pioneer-exploration of something totally new. There is no "General Motors" of MMOG design where you can just go with a "kewl" idea and put together a MMOG in a couple of days from pre-made game components.
Almost every single game out there is basically being built from the ground up. Few exceptions exist - SWG and DAoC being two that used existing game systems. Next time you want to get a new car, try building it from the ground up instead of buying it from a dealer and see how far you get.
No matter which release option is picked, the company faces two more options for release and it goes like this: Beta release for stress and bugs turns up 292 major issues. Hmm.
Company 1 gets to work, thankful that they don't have a release date. Everyone gets more pissed because the game is hopelessly broken and it looks like the company will never release it. After all, they can't even set a date.
Company 2 realizes they're in deep sh!7 because they can only fix 177 of those major issues to be in time for release. No matter what they do, everyone is pissed because the game is pushed back (sensibly) or released without many of the major content listed on the marketing box that was planned and paid for months in advance and can't be changed.
End result of the contrast between Company 1 and Company 2? Everyone is pissed. Do you see why I say, "get over it and move on?" Just let them develop their games and give them a whirl when they're released. They're just games.
When these games are released, we can all try them. Getting pissed about it now, before release, is really lame.
Games:
WAR, LotRO, AO, GW, EQ, EQ2, AC, AC2, Vanguard, CoH, EVE, HZs, SO, MxO, SWG, DAoC, WoW, WWIIOL
--------------------------------------
There's a world behind the world, Professor Robinson. Lie once, cheat twice and everything becomes clear. Do not mistake my deception for a character flaw. It is philosophical choice, a profound understanding of the universe. It is a way of life. - Doctor Smith
I dont have a problem with them pushing back the game release as long as they dont do it over and over agian. If they are going to push it back then give us a date that you actually think it will be finished dont keep leading us on and then dissappointing us agian. The November 15, release date doesnt sound that bad at all to me as long as the game is good quality when it comes out.
Um, just so you know, no MMORPG ever has had a rock solid release. And many of those are still popular to this day.
You must have not played EQ2 when it released....Very solid release maybe even rock solid
especially compared to every other MMO release ie. WoW
Agreed...anxious for the game to get released, but better that they release a solid product a few weeks later.
No matter how far its pushed back though, the first couple of weeks are always pretty rough. Just no way to account for all the issues and problems associated with a popular games' release.