"Putting it on a pedestal" is just your spin. Whether you want to admit it or not, part of comparing any two things is our own subjective, individual value judgments of one thing being better or worse than another based on our previous experience and our individual likes and dislikes. It's just something we all do every time we run into a new thing.
Judging by all the pre-derailment responses, I don't think many people had a problem picking one game as our individual MMO standard of excellence.
"what is the one MMO you use as a reference when you are judging a new game?"
Sure it's my spin but based on the question posed. if I had been asked what is your criteria for an enjoyable experience based on your past experiences, I would not have said none. I (as well as we) were asked a rather specific question, what game do you use as a reference? are you saying none is not a fair answer to that question in that premise?
I honestly haven't done that since I was still playing SWG-NGE back in the mid 2000's. Once I realized the chances of reliving those glory days was zilch I stopped doing that, and make it a point not to. I just feel again that doing so sets oneself up for disappointment and chasing a dragon..
I'm saying that I don't buy your none answer at all because you're describing a thought process that humans just do not do. However hip it may sound to say that you judge things on their own merit, you actually don't... ever.
"In psychology and cognitive neuroscience, pattern recognition describes a cognitive process that matches information from a stimulus with information retrieved from memory"
Pattern recognition is used to quickly bypass needless re-learning of things already known(or to spot something that makes you say "this reminds me of that thing"). Surely you aren't implying that pattern recognition has anything with valuing a game? I mean, it could have(when weighing of the "this is done better there etc" type)...
Still, none is a perfectly fine answer. Maybe he just evaluates on inner impressions or such things as opposed to "RTS = Dune gameplay ; RTS b != Dune Gameplay ; RTS b = bad"(external valuing). I too doubt that you can pull this completely(you must notice something and compare it with something if reflexively), but you never know...
No it's more fundamental than that. Every new thing is compared to our memory of previous things. And that memory comes with emotional content that influences how we feel about the new thing.
The question the OP asked is precisely about that. I evaluate particularly social interactions in MMOs compared to DAoC because I had good experiences in it as a social MMO. So I look for mechanics and game play that foster that as a preference. And like I said, it's something we all do.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
No it's more fundamental than that. Every new thing is compared to our memory of previous things. And that memory comes with emotional content that influences how we feel about the new thing.
The question the OP asked is precisely about that. I evaluate particularly social interactions in MMOs compared to DAoC because I had good experiences in it as a social MMO. So I look for mechanics and game play that foster that as a preference. And like I said, it's something we all do.
I completely disagree with all that you said here. What you're describing is mostly about familiarity or lack there of. That is mostly inherent to our everyday perspective based on experiences. What the OP is asking is much more deliberate, clearly one is a choice the other is not. We can't change our past experiences. We can change how we use our favorite things to sour our view of alternatives.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
With SWG, its all about the design philosophy. They tried to create a proper virtual galaxy for us to inhabit and live out virtual lives. I loved the freedom of character build, all the non-combat professions, the awesome player-economy and just general approach to building a game.
With LotRO, its all about the combat and community. I've yet to play a game where I enjoyed the combat more than LotRO. In groups or raids, the combat system was just awesome. More depth than I've seen anywhere else and immensely satisfying when done right. The community was also a massive feature of LotRO so I always compare to modern MMOs to see what features they have added that will contribute to a good community.
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
SWG mostly because it was my first MMO. I could list a dozen things that game did better but I can't say for sure if they really did or they had the most impacting influence because they had no competition, being the first MMO.
GW2 is the one I always come back to for casual play. I can play it for 10 mins or 10 hours if I want and feel like I've accomplished something. The philosophy of the game is fun and for the most part it delivers. Don't have to spend a lot of time playing the manage inventory mini-game or the get the latest gear mini-game.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Combat is the most important thing in an MMO for me and TERA is the best at that for me, so that's my point of reference. If I could change anything about TERA's combat I'd just have less keybinds (as a Priest I had 35 or so which is nuts). I enjoy a variety of gameplay and design ideas when it comes to MMO's so I'm open there to a lot of games, but the combat absolutely has to be good if I'm going to really commit long term.
After that I'd say the visual style is important. There isn't one game I look to for that, but in general I like things that are brighter in color and more positive and upbeat in general style. So ESO is a big downer for me and I can't play that for too long, but I love the art and graphics in Korean games in general. For Western games I'd say GW2 does it well.
Depends entirely on the type of MMO. I compare the fantasy sandboxes to UO, the themeparks to LOTRO, the space MMOs to EVE, and the social virtual worlds to vMTV.
-- Whammy - a 64x64 miniRPG - RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right? - FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
UO, Everquest and DAOC as they all offered something different at launch that hooked me. Over the years I have returned or attempted return to all 3 but the "improvements" all 3 games made over time actually destroyed what I enjoyed and hooked me into multiple years of play. (Trammel, Planes of Power, Trials of Atlantis = end of my enjoyment)
I have not played an MMO in many years however the first check I do before I will even look at a new MMO is to see if the game is using the free to play with a cash shop model and if the answer is yes then my answer is no. As this is the model almost every game is using or will be using I am not sure I will ever play another one.
I can't use a single game to compare all new games, can't be done. In most cases I compare specific features with how earlier games did them and if I go general I use a similar successful game as a measuring pin.
But comparing DFO with Wow or ESO with Eve, that is just silly and a waste of time, the only useful thing you could compare is how fun you had when you played them and even that is hard since the memory of that isn't 100% reliable, sometimes things were not as good as I remember them, in other cases I have forgotten just how fun a specific game actually was.
I can't use a single game to compare all new games, can't be done. In most cases I compare specific features with how earlier games did them and if I go general I use a similar successful game as a measuring pin.
But comparing DFO with Wow or ESO with Eve, that is just silly and a waste of time, the only useful thing you could compare is how fun you had when you played them and even that is hard since the memory of that isn't 100% reliable, sometimes things were not as good as I remember them, in other cases I have forgotten just how fun a specific game actually was.
I sort of agree with you. I tried Eve a couple of times and loathed it, ESO gave me motion sickness so I would use neither of them for comparison. DFO is so far out of my comfort zone that it is a non starter too.
I don't agree atall. Why can't you compare when 99% of the mmorpg's are nearly identical linear questing ? I would also bet that MOST would agree quests in most all these games are very similar as well,so yeah imo we most certainly can draw comparisons.
FUn is a VERY subjective term and one i feel most misuse because playing a mmorpg for 1/2/3 weeks and quitting,hardly says one had fun.As well i see almost every player treating a ROLE playing game as nothing more than a leveling treadmill with loot.I do not think one person can honestly tell me they get excited or say they are having fun just because they see a level number go up.Likely the fun was in the combat or some mini games or puzzles and some just like discovering new places. Example,would you honestly say you had fun with discovery in a moba?No of course not so to COMPARE for example your discovery adventure in LOTRO with a Moba is easy,the rpg offered a lot more fun in the aspect of gaming you enjoy.
Even combat,one game might simply have 2 animations and a dodge,while another game has tons of moves,combos,various armor types ,various weapon types etc etc,so again you can compare by saying one game offers way more depth in combat than the other.
I almost get the feeling some people are AFRAID,if they make a comparison that steps on someone's favorite game they will be flamed,or made rude comments to.If you are afraid to compare games,that really says something about the community and the site.Speak your mind,don't be afraid,if i say i disagree,that does NOT mean i hate you or think lesser of you,i am simply disagreeing because i have my own opinion on the matter.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
@Wizardy I agree with you. I have never quit an MMO whilst having fun. It was always lacking having fun, or thinking I can have more fun playing another game. When I get into an MMO I like to treat it as my new virtual home and hopefully setup camp there for years. For short duration of gameplay, I personally have more fun in a single-player game. Playing an MMO then quitting after a couple of months, for me is basically like watching a few episodes of a TV-Series. If I know I am going to stop watching after only a couple of episodes, then I prefer to watch a movie in that duration. Many might not feel the same, but MMOs are like relationships for me, single-player games like one-night stands! And I don't just marry anybody because I can't find a partner I am looking for. I'd be more happy and content being a casual bachelor then!
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Champions Online, Phantasy Star Online, Marvel Heroes, and World of Warcraft hybrid.
CO=Best character creation system to date.
PSO2=Perhaps one of the more friendly lockbox lotteries out there; even if you do not get what you wanted, sell it to get what you wanted. All styles are buy-able via player shops. They have so many neat styles, their lotteries contain many with each release.
MH=The combat system is pretty neat, better than the other superhero mmo out there.
WoW=The most versatile mmo out there. You can be or do pretty much whatever you want. They have every feature imaginable.
For the most part I compare every game to the current funnest game to play for me currently which is always changing.... right now its Darkfall... Conan exiles.... miss vanguard a lot so that too..... and uhh.. shiiiiat well lots of stuff really. Some games provide a certain fix that others simply CANNOT though no matter what they do.
NEWS FLASH!"A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished!https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA
Comments
The question the OP asked is precisely about that. I evaluate particularly social interactions in MMOs compared to DAoC because I had good experiences in it as a social MMO. So I look for mechanics and game play that foster that as a preference. And like I said, it's something we all do.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
With SWG, its all about the design philosophy. They tried to create a proper virtual galaxy for us to inhabit and live out virtual lives. I loved the freedom of character build, all the non-combat professions, the awesome player-economy and just general approach to building a game.
With LotRO, its all about the combat and community. I've yet to play a game where I enjoyed the combat more than LotRO. In groups or raids, the combat system was just awesome. More depth than I've seen anywhere else and immensely satisfying when done right. The community was also a massive feature of LotRO so I always compare to modern MMOs to see what features they have added that will contribute to a good community.
I could list a dozen things that game did better but I can't say for sure if they really did or they had the most impacting influence because they had no competition, being the first MMO.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Also eve online.
After that I'd say the visual style is important. There isn't one game I look to for that, but in general I like things that are brighter in color and more positive and upbeat in general style. So ESO is a big downer for me and I can't play that for too long, but I love the art and graphics in Korean games in general. For Western games I'd say GW2 does it well.
- RPG Quiz - can you get all 25 right?
- FPS Quiz - how well do you know your shooters?
I have not played an MMO in many years however the first check I do before I will even look at a new MMO is to see if the game is using the free to play with a cash shop model and if the answer is yes then my answer is no. As this is the model almost every game is using or will be using I am not sure I will ever play another one.
Toilet paper.... I don't judge it, I'm just happy it's there when I need it
Now please don't squeeze the Charmin
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
But comparing DFO with Wow or ESO with Eve, that is just silly and a waste of time, the only useful thing you could compare is how fun you had when you played them and even that is hard since the memory of that isn't 100% reliable, sometimes things were not as good as I remember them, in other cases I have forgotten just how fun a specific game actually was.
Why can't you compare when 99% of the mmorpg's are nearly identical linear questing ?
I would also bet that MOST would agree quests in most all these games are very similar as well,so yeah imo we most certainly can draw comparisons.
FUn is a VERY subjective term and one i feel most misuse because playing a mmorpg for 1/2/3 weeks and quitting,hardly says one had fun.As well i see almost every player treating a ROLE playing game as nothing more than a leveling treadmill with loot.I do not think one person can honestly tell me they get excited or say they are having fun just because they see a level number go up.Likely the fun was in the combat or some mini games or puzzles and some just like discovering new places.
Example,would you honestly say you had fun with discovery in a moba?No of course not so to COMPARE for example your discovery adventure in LOTRO with a Moba is easy,the rpg offered a lot more fun in the aspect of gaming you enjoy.
Even combat,one game might simply have 2 animations and a dodge,while another game has tons of moves,combos,various armor types ,various weapon types etc etc,so again you can compare by saying one game offers way more depth in combat than the other.
I almost get the feeling some people are AFRAID,if they make a comparison that steps on someone's favorite game they will be flamed,or made rude comments to.If you are afraid to compare games,that really says something about the community and the site.Speak your mind,don't be afraid,if i say i disagree,that does NOT mean i hate you or think lesser of you,i am simply disagreeing because i have my own opinion on the matter.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
CO=Best character creation system to date.
PSO2=Perhaps one of the more friendly lockbox lotteries out there; even if you do not get what you wanted, sell it to get what you wanted. All styles are buy-able via player shops. They have so many neat styles, their lotteries contain many with each release.
MH=The combat system is pretty neat, better than the other superhero mmo out there.
WoW=The most versatile mmo out there. You can be or do pretty much whatever you want. They have every feature imaginable.
NEWS FLASH! "A bank was robbed the other day and a man opened fire on the customers being held hostage. One customer zig-zag sprinted until he found cover. When questioned later he explained that he was a hardcore gamer and knew just what to do!" Download my music for free! I release several albums per month as part of project "Thee Untitled" . .. some video game music remixes and cover songs done with instruments in there as well! http://theeuntitled.bandcamp.com/ Check out my roleplaying blog, collection of fictional short stories, and fantasy series... updated on a blog for now until I am finished! https://childrenfromtheheavensbelow.blogspot.com/ Watch me game on occasion or make music... https://www.twitch.tv/spoontheeuntitled and subscribe! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCUvqULn678VrF3OasgnbsyA