ME Andromeda: victim of SJW cancer or just bad artists?

YashaX

I loved ME2, it was one of the best rpgs I've played so I was quite excited about ME:A. I've heard several people on this site say the game is actually quite good once you get into it; but omg what the hell happened with the character art? I can't recall any AAA game worse in that department.

Expressionless, ugly characters (especially females) in a game with a focus on close up dialogue screens and romance. I would be hard pressed finding real people that look this ugly, which in a way is an accomplishment I suppose. But who wants to role play butt-ugly girl or insipid characterless boy for a 100 hours? Is that mainstream now?

So what is going on? Is this a case of SJW cancer as suggested in this review: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-19/mass-effect-andromeda-sucky-animations-bigoted-designer-and-fugly-females-lead-cance

Or is it just down to terrible artists? And if so why did they hire crap artists? Other Bioware games I've played certainly aren't stellar in terms of character art, but this is just so much worse than anything they have done before its mindboggling.

Hopefully the gameplay/story is good enough to trump the character art fiasco.

CrazKanuk

There are a few posts that discussed this last week. There was one, in particular, from a Naughty Dog artist which explained how animations are prioritized and it's theorized that there were some issues in some of the low-priority animations (ie animations they felt would be seen less often). So the frequency that these actually show up is questionable. I think someone said something about them transitioning engines from UE4 to Frostbite that could have introduced some issues. Then it's likely that there wasn't a full pass of testing following that, in order to ensure that they hit targets. Also, they've committed to fixing the issues, so I don't think that it'll be there for too much longer. I'm probably going to give it a few months and then pick it up the next time it's on sale.

bartoni33

YashaX said:

Hopefully the gameplay/story is good enough to trump the character art fiasco.

It is.

As far as the rest of your post I hope you have your flame-retardant suit on.

borghive49

I think the industry is too big now and the talent is just spread out too far, this is just a direct product of poor talent and rushed deadlines. 

Iselin

You forgot the third option: exaggerations by the batshit-crazy mob with a politically motivated agenda to metabomb a game and company they perceive as stinking liberal SJW anti-white racists.

Yes, the facial animations can use improvement but they are not as bad as the mob would have you believe and the gameplay is quite good and in many ways much better than any previous ME game.

And BTW... just what kind of discussion do you expect in a thread with "SJW cancer" in the title?

Sovrath

That review reads like it was written by a kid; some awkward, angry 14 year old.

Iselin

DMKano said:

Iselin said:

You forgot the third option: exaggerations by the batshit-crazy mob with a politically motivated agenda to metabomb a game and company they perceive as stinking liberal SJW anti-white racists.

Yes, the facial animations can use improvement but they are not as bad as the mob would have you believe and the gameplay is quite good and in many ways much better than any previous ME game.

And BTW... just what kind of discussion do you expect in a thread with "SJW cancer" in the title?

This is DA Inquisition in space, and its not even as good as Inquisition was.

IMO ME2 was a better game because the story and characters were better.

Andromeda is far from a bad game, but its nowhere near an awesome game either.

Mediocre game thats riding the coattails of its predecessors.

Well I happened to also like DA Inquisition and I think that this one is better.

• For one thing the world is more open than it was in DAI.
• The terrain is more varied and some of the environments are absolutely gorgeous.
• The jumpjets add a fun component and a useful 3rd axis.
• Character development is much more open allowing you to mix and match abilities and passives from the 3 specializations streams.
• Itemization, especially weapons, is much deeper and more varied than any previous ME or DA game.
• Crafting is very well done with the addition of "augments"
• The quantity of quests, some of which give you unexpected pay-offs (like the one that leads you to your first "architect" encounter,) is bigger than anything they've ever done.
• The quality of the stories is at least on par with their previous games.
• Combat is fluid and gives you more options than what we're used to in the mE series... especially if you choose to do something like a melee biotic adept.

I could go on....

Kyleran

DMKano said:

Iselin said:

You forgot the third option: exaggerations by the batshit-crazy mob with a politically motivated agenda to metabomb a game and company they perceive as stinking liberal SJW anti-white racists.

Yes, the facial animations can use improvement but they are not as bad as the mob would have you believe and the gameplay is quite good and in many ways much better than any previous ME game.

And BTW... just what kind of discussion do you expect in a thread with "SJW cancer" in the title?

This is DA Inquisition in space, and its not even as good as Inquisition was.

IMO ME2 was a better game because the story and characters were better.

Andromeda is far from a bad game, but its nowhere near an awesome game either.

Mediocre game thats riding the coattails of its predecessors.

But, but some reviewers including one on this site give it an 8.7.....

How can this be?  

hatefulpeace

YashaX said:

I loved ME2, it was one of the best rpgs I've played so I was quite excited about ME:A. I've heard several people on this site say the game is actually quite good once you get into it; but omg what the hell happened with the character art? I can't recall any AAA game worse in that department.

Expressionless, ugly characters (especially females) in a game with a focus on close up dialogue screens and romance. I would be hard pressed finding real people that look this ugly, which in a way is an accomplishment I suppose. But who wants to role play butt-ugly girl or insipid characterless boy for a 100 hours? Is that mainstream now?

So what is going on? Is this a case of SJW cancer as suggested in this review: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-19/mass-effect-andromeda-sucky-animations-bigoted-designer-and-fugly-females-lead-cance

Or is it just down to terrible artists? And if so why did they hire crap artists? Other Bioware games I've played certainly aren't stellar in terms of character art, but this is just so much worse than anything they have done before its mindboggling.

Hopefully the gameplay/story is good enough to trump the character art fiasco.

Haha well, I would never buy this game now. Thanks for the article, that garbage the lead designer spouts out of his twitter page, makes Alex Jones look like a sane person. Well at least he got fired, I still wouldn't by it, with that guy having part in it. Asfar as why the game sucked, well if that article is true, it sucked because the lead designer was a dogmatic crazy person,and that leaked into the game design. So if that is what you call a SJW, a dogmatic crazy person then yep, thats why the game looks like garbage. 

Tiamat64

Bad art = SJW conspiracy?

Cripes, it's making me think troll SJWs (or maybe just trolls) infiltrated the anti-SJW camp just to make them look like complete morons when they spout theories like that.

Solar_Prophet

Iselin said:

You forgot the third option: exaggerations by the batshit-crazy mob with a politically motivated agenda to metabomb a game and company they perceive as stinking liberal SJW anti-white racists.

Yes, the facial animations can use improvement but they are not as bad as the mob would have you believe and the gameplay is quite good and in many ways much better than any previous ME game.

And BTW... just what kind of discussion do you expect in a thread with "SJW cancer" in the title?

There's no exaggeration here at all. Read what Manveer Heir and other Bioware employees have written on their social media sites. If somebody had said the same things they did (and still do) about minority groups, women, etc. they'd be thrown out on their asses, and rightfully so I might add. 

It's not just about animations. Almost every single female character looks like they got beaten with the ugly tree. This is extremely apparent when you compare male Ryder with the model he was based on, and female Ryder with the model she was based on. It's night and bleeping day. 

Yes, Bioware definitely has SJW cancer. They hire openly racist and sexist people, make female characters ugly deliberately, and  99% of their characters are now part of the LGBT community and make sure you know it within thirty seconds of meeting them. 

Anyway, in before lock by the SJW-loving staff of this site. 

Phry

While the animations can be fixed eventually, i don't know what can be done about the storylines/writing in the game, its not so much that its mediocre, as a clear example of an inexperienced writer, its really not on a par of the earlier games, imo ME:A just does not measure up to the previous standards that Bioware had, the game lacks polish, and the lack of a professional writer is clearly evident, the game is in desperate need of a 'do over'. O.o

Iselin

Phry said:

While the animations can be fixed eventually, i don't know what can be done about the storylines/writing in the game, its not so much that its mediocre, as a clear example of an inexperienced writer, its really not on a par of the earlier games, imo ME:A just does not measure up to the previous standards that Bioware had, the game lacks polish, and the lack of a professional writer is clearly evident, the game is in desperate need of a 'do over'. O.o

So you've played it then?

YashaX

Its not just the animations; my main issue is what the characters actually look like. It shocked me even more when I discovered that the preset female Ryder was modelled on Jayde Rossi, who is a beautiful woman: I had originally assumed it was just some derpy looking preset.

The male lead looks a lot more like the human model (Steven Brewis), which suggests they did have the technical skill to make the characters look reasonable. It still lacks "character" in game, but maybe that partly reflects the model himself.

To me the gameplay and story will be the most important element, but the character art is just so unbelievably bad that it makes me wonder wtf happened. I still remember Alistar, Morrigan, Leliana, Duncan and the rest from DAO: they all had real character. That was like seven years ago; hell even dog looked better than anything I have seen so far in ME:A.

Iselin

YashaX said:

Its not just the animations; my main issue is what the characters actually look like. It shocked me even more when I discovered that the preset female Ryder was modelled on Jayde Rossi, who is a beautiful woman: I had originally assumed it was just some derpy looking preset.

The male lead looks a lot more like the human model (Steven Brewis), which suggests they did have the technical skill to make the characters look reasonable. It still lacks "character" in game, but maybe that partly reflects the model himself.

To me the gameplay and story will be the most important element, but the character art is just so unbelievably bad that it makes me wonder wtf happened. I still remember Alistar, Morrigan, Leliana, Duncan and the rest from DAO: they all had real character. That was like seven years ago; hell even dog looked better than anything I have seen so far in ME:A.

Cora looks like my ex... so I dislike her intensely



Suvi is pretty hot but I'd feel guilty pretending to be religious just to bed her

YashaX

Iselin said:

YashaX said:

Its not just the animations; my main issue is what the characters actually look like. It shocked me even more when I discovered that the preset female Ryder was modelled on Jayde Rossi, who is a beautiful woman: I had originally assumed it was just some derpy looking preset.

The male lead looks a lot more like the human model (Steven Brewis), which suggests they did have the technical skill to make the characters look reasonable. It still lacks "character" in game, but maybe that partly reflects the model himself.

To me the gameplay and story will be the most important element, but the character art is just so unbelievably bad that it makes me wonder wtf happened. I still remember Alistar, Morrigan, Leliana, Duncan and the rest from DAO: they all had real character. That was like seven years ago; hell even dog looked better than anything I have seen so far in ME:A.

Cora looks like my ex... so I dislike her intensely



Suvi is pretty hot but I'd feel guilty pretending to be religious just to bed her

I have to admit that first screen shot looks pretty good. 

Iselin

YashaX said:

Iselin said:

YashaX said:

Its not just the animations; my main issue is what the characters actually look like. It shocked me even more when I discovered that the preset female Ryder was modelled on Jayde Rossi, who is a beautiful woman: I had originally assumed it was just some derpy looking preset.

The male lead looks a lot more like the human model (Steven Brewis), which suggests they did have the technical skill to make the characters look reasonable. It still lacks "character" in game, but maybe that partly reflects the model himself.

To me the gameplay and story will be the most important element, but the character art is just so unbelievably bad that it makes me wonder wtf happened. I still remember Alistar, Morrigan, Leliana, Duncan and the rest from DAO: they all had real character. That was like seven years ago; hell even dog looked better than anything I have seen so far in ME:A.

Cora looks like my ex... so I dislike her intensely



Suvi is pretty hot but I'd feel guilty pretending to be religious just to bed her

I have to admit that first screen shot looks pretty good. 

That's because they're static screen caps.

The facial issues are only really a problem when they are in an animated cutscene because they've really gone hog wild with the quantity of facial animations - especially the eyes. They've gone for ultra expressiveness and that's what tips it into uncanny valley territory. It's the eyes in particular that are the biggest problem.

Allerleirauh

Um, gamers want Ivanka? Ivanka is ugly, she has a neck like ET, and about the weirdest nose I have ever seen, bad example. She had plastic surgery just to look that way, and she's a fake blonde. The only person I can think is uglier is Melania (yeah, the article doesn't mention her, but she looks mummified corpse). So, beauty is in the eye of the beholder; this is the only time I mentioned above names because it's relevant to the article that you linked. I could easily create a better-looking character. As long as you are able to customize them; I usually don't play games where you cannot customize your character.

tawess

1st rule of anything claimed as a conspiracy... Dismiss it and look for a more reasonable solution.

There is also that old saying of "never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" that works well here... Even if the stupidity in this case is more systematic than individual.

Also is SJW still a thing... it feel so... 2015... 

Shodanas

Solar_Prophet said:

Iselin said:

You forgot the third option: exaggerations by the batshit-crazy mob with a politically motivated agenda to metabomb a game and company they perceive as stinking liberal SJW anti-white racists.

Yes, the facial animations can use improvement but they are not as bad as the mob would have you believe and the gameplay is quite good and in many ways much better than any previous ME game.

And BTW... just what kind of discussion do you expect in a thread with "SJW cancer" in the title?

There's no exaggeration here at all. Read what Manveer Heir and other Bioware employees have written on their social media sites. If somebody had said the same things they did (and still do) about minority groups, women, etc. they'd be thrown out on their asses, and rightfully so I might add. 

Can you provide us some links to these "other" employees social media ? Apart from Heir's ofc who is no longer working for BW.

Yes, Bioware definitely has SJW cancer. They hire openly racist and sexist people,

Do you have any info to back this up ? Or is it just the usual hyperbole BS you like to type on MMORPG boards ?

Allerleirauh

tawess said:

Also is SJW still a thing... it feel so... 2015... 

The funny this is, I didn't even know what an SJW was, and how it's relevant to gaming. My gaming friends just had to tell me, unfortunately. I think the OP just mentioned it to sound "edgy". 

goozmania

Considering early videos of the game from 2+ years ago showed a significantly more attractive and human looking female lead; I'm going to have to go with the SJW option. They uglied her up, on purpose.

Phry

Iselin said:

Phry said:

While the animations can be fixed eventually, i don't know what can be done about the storylines/writing in the game, its not so much that its mediocre, as a clear example of an inexperienced writer, its really not on a par of the earlier games, imo ME:A just does not measure up to the previous standards that Bioware had, the game lacks polish, and the lack of a professional writer is clearly evident, the game is in desperate need of a 'do over'. O.o

So you've played it then?

i've watched several hours of lets players that have, which honestly is a godsend these days when you can't rely on hype to give you the facts.
I'll play it, or not, when i consider it a worthwhile thing to do, thankfully this is the information age, and i'd rather make my purchases from an informed position than one of ignorance, blind purchases these days are an extravagance that i prefer not to indulge in.

SBFord

As a cancer survivor, I am constantly appalled by the casual use of a terrible disease's name in order to make some point about gaming. If you or anyone you loved had ever been afflicted with it, you wouldn't dare. @YashaX @Solar_Prophet

Avarix

Please, stop perpetuating articles like this. The sole reason they exist is to drum up outrage. Doesn't matter if you're 'SJW' or 'Anti-SJW'. They make articles like this, use appalling amount of hyperbole and very few, if any, facts, solely to get you to click on it. Outrage = Money.

Every time an article like this gets a strong emotional reaction from people, they click on it. Every time they click on it, they give the author AD revenue. The more outrageous the better the chance they will proceed to spread it via social media. It doesn't matter that most of it is nonsense, so long as it makes your blood boil. Stop allowing them to manipulate you so easily. The sooner we all stop clicking on articles like this the sooner they all go away.

Too many media outlets use hyperbole now for this reason. You're part of the problem. Try being part of the solution and not supporting sites/articles like this. If you're going to continue to subject yourself to this type of manipulation, at the very least, please stop spreading it.

karmath

Iselin said:

You forgot the third option: exaggerations by the batshit-crazy mob with a politically motivated agenda to metabomb a game and company they perceive as stinking liberal SJW anti-white racists.

Yes, the facial animations can use improvement but they are not as bad as the mob would have you believe and the gameplay is quite good and in many ways much better than any previous ME game.

And BTW... just what kind of discussion do you expect in a thread with "SJW cancer" in the title?

Except they do have "stinking liberal SJW anti-white racists" as leads, and the top brass supports him spouting this crap on twitter.