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Guild Wars - A MMO or Not?
Talairina
Member Posts: 11
Before I start getting flames etc, This is only my thoughts on what is basicly a debated topic. Now rather than everyone spamming their views about GW been crap and not a mmo in the ratings area of GW please do it here. After all flames are not reviews.
Below is my thoughts on everything GW. Including if it is, or is not a MMO.
Im curious about the gentlemen eariler in the ratings area who mentioned that the role play mission lacked the end of some plots in some areas. Now Im wondering if this gentlemen has acually finished the story missions? Im also wondering if hes acullay read about the Free Summer Expansion with the new content updates for the South Shiverpeaks that will finish off the Prince Rurik storyline? I guess not.
Also for all those that said this is not a MMO. Please dont compare GW to WoW or FFXI or any others. Yes GW may not have a strong community such as games like Eve but it does have everything the big names dont have. PvP has been voted the best ever (Check the various websites) The Grapics beat everything Iv seen other than Eve (but its abit bleak in space afet all) There is very little lag if non-existant. Im in scotland and play on the us servers. No lag at all. Its that good.
Also to the gentlemen about no official forums (Again check the ratings for GW). ANet mentions on their website that they thought that a official forums moderated by them would seem on fair and promote that they could 'control' what was said. Abit like SOE does with all there games. (Check the CU posts for SWG on the SOE forums.)
Basicly the game has all the elements of a MMO.
A online community, a large user base, fresh content, constant updates, 24/7 access and more.
So yes, I believe Guild Wars is a MMO.
Let me hear your views 
Talairina Tsinth
Hey I'm mad leave me the hell alone!
Comments
GW is just a bad game. I mean it can be fun for a bit but ultimately its crap. It's not a mmo its just a multiplayer fantasy game.
Make a difference!
That s the real question.
What on earth is going to change once we decided wheater Guild Wars is either a MMO or not?
IT s not meant to be a flame, it is just a cry for mercy.
Stop with this boring subject it s not going to do anything good, it s just going to create lots of flaming posts because there is not an answer to this question.
Everyone is right and nobody can prove the opposite.
Its not a boring subject thoughts it simply a matter of discussion. If you deem it boring then please dont post. Others are curious to why the discussion is ongoing maybe this will help them decide themselfs what the answer is for themselfs. To the first poster, why do you think it is a bad game. The idea is you post why as well as saying its 'crap'.
Hey I'm mad leave me the hell alone!
Copeland...I've noticed something. While you continually demand respect from others for games such as Irth Online, you don't pay the same service to games that you yourself do not like.
Just an observation.
It's not a "massively" multiplayer online role playing game!
It's a online role playing game
I don't even know why it's on the site tbh!
---------------------------------------------
Don't click here...no2
Why is it not a MMO. Come on people the idea behind the thread is to post WHY its IS or IS NOT a MMO.
Thank you for your thoughts but please give us why you think that.
Hey I'm mad leave me the hell alone!
From what I've seen from your posts so far, you don't like any current game at all, so your review doesn't surprise me, only game name changed.
That's what I thought about this thread completely. Thank you
...
From what I've seen from your posts so far, you don't like any current game at all, so your review doesn't surprise me, only game name changed.
That's what I thought about this thread completely. Thank you
I understand this post. I also understand why you think it is a waste of time. Yes it will no doubt attract certain 'people' to flame but if that is the case then one of the moderator here's can easily lock this up. Its basicly only here so we can hear peopls views on the topic. To dicuss. In any discussion there will always be diffrent sides and very rarely do discussions lead to a 'answer'. So really Im only expecting a intelligent conversation about a subject that is currently been debated. Nothing more or less. No right or wrong answer.
Talairina Tsinth
Hey I'm mad leave me the hell alone!
I don't comment on games i havent played where as others do. I own GW. If you made a list of everything thats wrong with mmorpg's today then GW would be built on that list. Mass instancing, lack of depth, bad community it has it all. True other games suffer the same defects but none of them are so overhyped by fanboys. Theres really only 2 games that i think are overhyped and not deserving of patronage. GW and WoW. Both games are successful and i respect a persons choice to find their pleasures wherever they can but to me both games set terrible precedents for the future of mmorpgs. Honestly i wish i could get a refund for Guild Wars and WoW but i cant so all i can do is give my opinion here. Also let me add that Irth Online is in development and my only gripe is about the people who jumped in open beta the first day without having a clue as to its development state and started breaking their NDA's ripping the game.
Guild Wars is no more an MMO than diablo 2 was. The interesting question is if its not an MMO why is listed here? DDO will not be an MMO either so why is it listed here?
Instancing is admitting failure.
*edit* shoot i should have said theres 3 games .. throw EQ2 in there as well..
Make a difference!
Nice topic, hotly debated in some areas. But I have strong reservations about the gentleman from Scotland, when his "opinions" are given the weight of fact in his own "rebuttal" to why he thinks it is an MMORPG. Specifically, graphics are a matter of individual taste -- because you like them doesn't make them the "best". Frankly, I thought they were nicely polished -- but since graphics is a comparitively minor thing to me, I wouldn't elevate them to being a prime consideration. Also, what does the look of the game have to do with it being an MMORPG? I stress the full title, MMORPG, since a game of checkers that plays online and allows thousands of players in one "arena" for playing would meet he requirements of being "massively multiplayer online (MMO)".
Guild Wars, to me, is technically an MMO, but I don't really like calling it that. It is massively multiplayer and it is online, but the fact that, outside the cities, EVERYTHING is instanced, so that you don't ever run into anyone else outside the cities, invalidates the value of being MMO. I mean, I'd rather come across some poor schlob being mauled by a bear and help him out than know for one hundred percent certainty that I will never run across anyone else in the wilds. The fact that they designed it specifically that way is fine; and if you enjoy it, fine; but I think that that design reduces its value as an MMO, since you aren't actually playing with any of the other thousands of players except in certain, predefined areas.
As an RPG, okay, there are quests. I played to lvl 20, which took a frighteningly short time to reach (first game ever to make me think that WoW had a harder levelling curve, which is scary since it doesn't). Now what? Run around in the arena -- but wait, I could have done that without ever adventuring and automatically been "levelled" to the max, since they set it up that way for arena-based PvP combat.
My opinion, in the end: it's an MMORPG. It just isn't a good MMO, since it limits by its design decisions when you actually interact with other players in its environment (and what genius set up the utterly arbitrary "you can't climb this" rule, talk about ruining a supposedly 3d environment -- and if you've played the game, you know what I mean: look, there's my goal, 15 feet in front of me; and that small 1-degree incline between here and there shouldn't be hard... what, I can't "climb" it, what the crap???). As an RPG, it's severely lacking, but it's also NEW. This aspect could be fleshed out better as time goes by.
In the end, whether or not it's an MMORPG or not depends on how you define it. THe fact that the developers of the game have specifically come out and said that it isn't should tell you what they, the creators and expanders of the game, think.
Personally, I found it an utter bore. But then, I still play UO, which has very, very dated graphics -- but is still one of the RPG/MMO environments out there.
I'll also stick with my online checkers arena metaphor -- by the Scottish gentleman's definition (community; graphics; support), this, too, would be an MMO. Hence the reason for discussing GAMEPLAY aspects when deciding not if it is or isn't but whether it's any good or not.
Talairina, perhaps, you started this thread with all pure curiosity and just wondering what the people think about the issue you brought up. But, believe me, I swear this thread will get flames and this will not help the gamers who are in decision stage to buy or not to this game. I don't know how many times this issue was brought up before. The results were all the same. I swear, this won't be broken in this thread
...
In the end it doesn't really matter if it's an MMORPG or not. People enjoy it.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
[quote]Originally posted by IvanRashnu
[b][quote]
From what I've seen from your posts so far, you don't like any current game at all, so your review doesn't surprise me, only game name changed.
[/b][/quote]
Theres several games i currently enjoy. I love EVE Online. I enjoy playing EQ still on occasion even though theres nothing in it i haven't done and its kinda old. I'm also testing a few games atm all of which show promise. The Saga of Ryzom has a solid foundation but really needs content. But you see the difference between these games and games like GW, WoW and EQ2 is the fact that they dont resort to instancing, the communities are mature and the games have real depth. If you instance a game you take the Massive out of mmorpg and kill community interaction. I remember when they put instancing in EQ and boy did it hurt the community. Now you have games that are nothing but instances and you have immature communities that have no idea how to work with each other. Things might change in the future as these communities are relatively young but i dont see how its going to change when everything in the game is geared at seperating the players.
Make a difference!
Thank you. Finally a post with some thoughts in. Yes I agree and I did make the mistake of making it sound like I put those values first. Iv played alot of MMO's from SWG, Wow, Eve even beated many others and played free ones such as RuneScape. Your totaly right about teh game play issues. It is after all the gameplay that counts. Your not going to spend 45 hours os playing a game just because it looks nice. You might do it thought because you know at the end of those 45 hours youve done something amazing and highly enjoyable. About the checkers arenas... You have a fine point there. Most arenas such as those offer the services i mentioned so would that make the MMO's. I see your point and I agree with most of them. With ArenaNet and NCSoft constaly offering new ideas and listing to the players they could bring in more and more options, such as the ability to climb or even swim. Maybe even make outpost dugeons where everyone in it can take part in one large mission. We know they can handle large scale battles with in the Tombs why not transpire that to a even larger scale? You might lose alittle bit of the tactical options towards it but it would give those fans of large scale battles the options. In the end its down to taste and of cause your own basic enjoyment.
Overall youve made excellent points and I hope we can see more like this
Thanks spydermr2
Talairina Tsinth
Hey I'm mad leave me the hell alone!
I don't comment on games i havent played where as others do. I own GW. If you made a list of everything thats wrong with mmorpg's today then GW would be built on that list. Mass instancing, lack of depth, bad community it has it all. True other games suffer the same defects but none of them are so overhyped by fanboys. Theres really only 2 games that i think are overhyped and not deserving of patronage. GW and WoW. Both games are successful and i respect a persons choice to find their pleasures wherever they can but to me both games set terrible precedents for the future of mmorpgs. Honestly i wish i could get a refund for Guild Wars and WoW but i cant so all i can do is give my opinion here. Also let me add that Irth Online is in development and my only gripe is about the people who jumped in open beta the first day without having a clue as to its development state and started breaking their NDA's ripping the game.
Guild Wars is no more an MMO than diablo 2 was. The interesting question is if its not an MMO why is listed here? DDO will not be an MMO either so why is it listed here?
Instancing is admitting failure.
*edit* shoot i should have said theres 3 games .. throw EQ2 in there as well..
You know what? For the most part I agree with you. I have very little love for Guild Wars (mostly due to it's exceptionally juvenile community), and while WoW can be fun, I also agree that it is WAAAY overrated. However, your list of what is wrong with current MMOs is simply your opinion (even though I agree with much of it).
I think one of the reasons GW and WoW have done well is because those immersive, non-instanced worlds that MMOs used to have, most gamers just don't care about. It's simply not a big factor in determining whether a game is enjoyable for them or not.
Did that make sense? I have a bad headache today, so I may be rambling...
ofcourse these are my opinions lol. Even i realize the fact that the games i play are small compared to GW, WoW and EQ2. I know alot of you like the games. Thats great.. for you.. but you asked for opinions
AND I'M NEVER SHORT ON OPINIONS!
Make a difference!
Talairina, perhaps, you started this thread with all pure curiosity and just wondering what the people think about the issue you brought up. But, believe me, I swear this thread will get flames and this will not help the gamers who are in decision stage to buy or not to this game. I don't know how many times this issue was brought up before. The results were all the same. I swear, this won't be broken in this thread
The issue is not to be broken per se, but expanded on beyound the basic flaming that is generaly around. Your right, I did start this with curiosity towards what the whole MMORPG community felt towards this style of MMO in general with instancing and the seperating of players and the general 'developer push' towards grapics before gameplay. Lets hope we wont get too many flames in the end. So far some excellent responces.
Talairina Tsinth
Hey I'm mad leave me the hell alone!
It s like deciding if a Bisexual is more gay or straight.
That s the same dilemma.
GW is a game that sits in the middle and anyone has enough arguments to win the debate.
I am not against this kind of discussions, every discussion is allowed, but this subject is being brought up so many times that people is getting sick only just watching at the title.
And in the end the answers are always the same
You want to know the answers?
-Yes GW is an MMO because there are Thousands of player that play at the same time.
-No GW is not an MMO because even if has thousands of players that play at the same time, they don't play in the same world, but they are split in smaller shards.
Now how on earth do you solve this dilemma?
Both arguments are right so who is right?
See how pointless is your original question?
(and again this is not a flame)
[quote]Originally posted by Copeland
[b][quote]Originally posted by IvanRashnu
[b][quote]
From what I've seen from your posts so far, you don't like any current game at all, so your review doesn't surprise me, only game name changed.
[/b][/quote]
Theres several games i currently enjoy. I love EVE Online. I enjoy playing EQ still on occasion even though theres nothing in it i haven't done and its kinda old. I'm also testing a few games atm all of which show promise. The Saga of Ryzom has a solid foundation but really needs content. But you see the difference between these games and games like GW, WoW and EQ2 is the fact that they dont resort to instancing, the communities are mature and the games have real depth. If you instance a game you take the Massive out of mmorpg and kill community interaction. I remember when they put instancing in EQ and boy did it hurt the community. Now you have games that are nothing but instances and you have immature communities that have no idea how to work with each other. Things might change in the future as these communities are relatively young but i dont see how its going to change when everything in the game is geared at seperating the players.[/b][/quote]
I wish this post would be your first one in this thread as it's more acceptable than only saying "this game is crap"
...
Talairina:
It would be nice if we could debate things without the usual "flames" and such.
I think you missed my primary argument against GW, and why I separated something being an MMO from the value of it being an MMO. To me, an MMO means that the massively-multiplayer players are going to be sharing a game-world, active in that same game world, and thereby overlapping in their interests/wants/etc. I mean, that's how we build a sense of community, of interaction. That doesn't mean limiting any interaction to specific areas or groups, it means an open gameworld. Guild Wars, by its design, DOES NOT do that, except in very limited areas -- namely, cities. If you hit the wilderness, you leave the MMO altogether -- you won't find anyone else roaming around, doing their thing, etc. Why is it hard to call this an MMO? Because it is -- in the cities. And it isn't -- once you leave the cities. Hence the developers stating that it really Isn't an MMORPG -- they're right. They built a game to First, provide organized carnage of a PvP style in specific areas (arena) and Second, be anything else. Hence my other complaint, about the utterly mystifying failure of the designers to incorporate the ability to do such massively difficult things (yes, sarcasm is seeping in sometimes, but it's directed at the devs of GW, not anyone here) as climbing that 1-degree incline (which is not climbing at all, more like walking) or that tree limb that's in the way. I think it all goes back to the designers and what they were setting out to do. I do think that they wanted to recreate the Diablo2 experience in an MMO way, and that, if that was their purpose, they pulled it off admirably. I don't necessarily like that, nor will I be playing any more, but that's the desingers choice. It's up to us to decide if we like their choices or not -- and vote with our feet (or keyboards, in this case).
-- edit: oops. You did comment about agreeing to "many of the points". But you went on to talk about them creating yet another "special area" where everyone could participate. That's the problem that a lot of folks, including me, have: it shouldn't be "only in special areas" that the players all interact (and I mean interact, not just fight together), it should be the whole gameworld. I loved the first EQ, despite the negatives (grind-heaven, etc.), because I thoroughly enjoyed roaming the world as a Shaman dedicated to helping others -- casting SOW for free (if you played, you know the value of SOW), healing, buffing, just being that unnamed stranger that roams the world helping others. I loved it -- and i could NOT replicate that on GW at all, because of their design decisions. In no way is it an MMO, when they instance all of the out-doors as they do. Oddly enough, the example above is also my chief criticism of EQ2, since with their "locked encounter" rule they also obliterated the ability of anyone to play in the style example I mentioned above.
I'm not someone who plays chiefly for PvP, though I do enjoy it when it makes sense within the overall gameworld. For instance, when playing WoW and being at the Crossroads for the first time (again, if you'e played, you'll know what I'm referring to) when it was attacked by Alliance players. We didn't group; it was just 20-30 people who, by using their Chat/Defense channel, coordinate the defense of the Crossroads and won. THAT is the interaction I'm looking for, and it's totally absent in GW. Unfortunately, since i brought up that example in WoW, the value of that also diminished almost instantly, since the Crossroads is more often than not under constant attack, and 9 out of 9 of the following "defense" experiences were catastrophes of "l33t-speak" morons trying to prove themselves "Uber!" without a thought to anyone else. Chief reason I left WoW: the L33t-speak community (the bulk of it). Saw too much of that in GW, too.
You want organized mass-mayhem? Play Dark Ages of Camelot and go RvR (Realm versus Realm), which pre-dated GW and WoW by years. There still hasn't been anything like it -- and they didn't have to "instance" you into solitude when you weren't RvR.
Who knows if they're more gay or straight but they've got alot more options for having fun than a gay or straight person!
Make a difference!
Who knows if they're more gay or straight but they've got alot more options for having fun than a gay or straight person!
Ehehh, don't start another pointless discussion now
I think the main reason this debate ever sprung up in the first place is because so many web sites have opted to group Guild Wars in all the other MMORPGs when talking about it (this site included). ArenaNet themselves never called GW an MMORPG, but in fact they dub it a CORPG (Competetive online rpg).
Have any of you played Phantasy Star Online? In my opinion, Guild Wars is set up almost exactly the same way. In PSO, you've got the little social lobby area (town in GW) where you meet up/chat with people, but when you actually go on a mission, you are flying solo unless you brought people with you. Many have pointed out GW's striking resemblance to PSO, but yet very few people call PSO an MMO, and it isn't even listed on this site.
If you ask me, if GW can be listed among EQ, SWG, Ryzom, etc., then so should PSO