you seem to be missing the point. Let me start off by saying something that I should have said two posts ago. All views expressed by me are mine and are in no way an effort to impose restrictions on other. They are my opinion, you can take them or leave them.
One would think the reason you are posting publically, on a public discussion board, is so that you can make a change. The reason for publically stating ones opinions (in person verbally, or over the internet) is to spread information, find out new information aka see how correct one's information is, and to help initiate change/changes.
Firstly, the scale is quite different with single player games since I can sell them or trade them to Gamestop or EBgames or on ebay. Legally. You can't really do that with an MMORPG.
With a mmorpg it is even better and easier. One can sell off characters, and even in game items. While still keeping the game. So the scale is either the same, or better with a mmorpg.
Also, if I find that I can't shoehorn in that $15 to $30 a for a game one month, I can just go without and wait until I have the money. The same situation with an MMORPG would have your account suspended and character deleted.
And in a MMORPG if one can't budget for one month as you show in your example, one can simply cancel their account, or let the account run out. Then skip playing the mmorpg for 1 month or more.
Next, no mmorpg to date has ever erased old characters except SWG. Even SWG will wait six months before erasing old characters. Technically, ALL mmorpgs have in their stated terms, that characters are subject to possibly being erased after 6 months or more of non-activity. So you can go far more than 1 month without playing a mmorpg without risk of your character getting erased.
And as I've said before, alot of single player games are infinitely replayable without the need for new content. Case in point, I spent about 5 hours a couple of days ago playing Meteos on the DS and I play Soul Calibur 2 almost daily. I would say that I do spend quite a bit less on gaming than $180 a year but that's mostly due to the fact that I buy used and trade back once I'm done with a game. If the game is good and totally replayable, I keep it.
No stand alone game is infinatly re-playable. Everyone takes a break from whatever their favorite game is. In the case of stand alone RPGs, once one finnishes it one time, one knows exactly how it plays. All further replaying will be either exactly the same, or close. There is nothing new after finnishing it 1 time. No matter if one plays it non-stop for 5 years. No matter if one takes a break, and comes back 3 years later.
And if you mostly buy used games, then you have completly mooted your entire thread, and arguement. Because then even brand new non-mmorpgs are too expensive for you. Then ALL new computer games are tooo expensive for you!
You talk about a 100% new experience everytime you log on. Really? Has the interface changed that much? Do they do a complete overhaul of the games artwork while you sleep? Does it magically change genres at the drop of the hat? Of course it doesn't. Basically you get a big chat room in a static environment, that's not unlike an empty movie lot, and occasionally you run out "hunt" braindead AI monsters or do a little PvP.
Please re-read my post. I said there is a chance for a new unique experience everytime one plays a MMORPG. And guess what? YES the interface changes that much (One example - compare original EQ to EQ 2 years later, to EQ 4 years later ) And yes they do complete overhaul of the artwork "while you sleep". Some people sleep their accounts for months, for years, and when they come back, the artwork has recieved a complete overhaul. (EQ is the easiest example. ) And I do not know why you say "does it change genres". That makes no sense. If a mmorpg, one of its defining aspects being that it is forever changeable, were to suddently be changed into a non-mmorpg, then it would no longer BE a mmorpg, no longer be forever changeable - if it became a stand alone game for example.
Is this different than say Diablo or Neverwinter Nights? Not really, but Diablo and NWN aren't demanding that I shuck out money every month either. With all the player made content for NWN, Dungeon Siege, Baldur's Gate, etc, I can have unique experiences and content as well. And only pay once!!! You ask about which gives you more for your money, it's really no contest.
There is no player made content for Diablo, unless you mean the hackers. Next, games like DS, NWN, etc... are not true MMORPGs. They are stand alone games, with an online mode. The online mode does not come close to a mmorpg. IF this is your cup of tea, then more power to you. The title of your thread though is about money. And again, if you cannot afford mmorpgs, then do not play them. Stick to stand alone games. Concentrate on school, do your homework, so that you will get a nice career job. If you think paying 15.oo per month is budget breaking, did you know many mmorpg players pay far, far, far, more? On purpose? Why? Because they are having fun. Because money is not such an issue. 15.oo per month for 160hours to 400 hours of entertainment is an incredible bargin. Far less than seeing 1 movie per month. The same as subscribing to 1 magazine per month.
Then you ask if I ever get my friends to play MMORPGs with me or if I can make friends in-game. The answer is yes I've done both and the experience just isn't the same.
You went from saying your problem with mmorpgs is that they are "too expensive". To now saying your problem with them are you have no friends in them. Now you say you have played them with friends and they are still no fun. OK then, you cannot have any fun in mmorpgs. I suggest you stop playing mmorpgs, and stick to stand alone games.
In NWN or Baldur's Gate there are no respawning monsters (depending on the server). There are no campers. There are no annoying packs of griefers that follow your party around and steel all the drops and kills while not being in PvP mode. Their are no quests that require more than an hour and a half to play through.
Exactly, depending on the server. Which means this is a moot point. In some dungeons in AC there are no re-spawning monsters. Or if they do respawn, it takes soo long that it is as if they do not re-spawn. In SWG in many areas there are no respawning monsters aka the same exact monster will not respawn where you are (a new one will appear somewhere else in the game world.)
Campers are not a problem in every mmorpg. Only certain ones. Griefers are not a problem in every mmorpg, only in certain ones. Kill stealers, ninja looters, are problems only in certain mmorpgs, NOT in every one. Quests taking more than 1 hour, or more than 1/2 hour are only in certain mmorpgs, not in all. It looks like you need to try more different mmorpgs. I strongly suggest you check out Anarchy Online, Star Wars Galaxies, Asheron's Call, and Dark Age of Camelot. (DAoC has random spawning quickie quests that take 5 mins.)
Next, even in stand alone RPGs like Dungeon Siege there are quests that take 1 hour or longer, 1/2 hour or longer.
Slice it however you want too, the play in these games has traditionally been spread thin just to keep you glued to your keyboard, regardless of wether your character was doing anything or not. The point of games is to interact and these games have all that, just very, very slow interaction.
MMORPGs are very open ended. It is up to the player how they want to play. Don't want to interact? One can solo, or stay away from major cities. In SWG there was even a large group of players who lived in the wilds of northern Corellia, never going into the cities. Living off the land and its resources. One to interact? One must on purpose go into the populated areas, super-cities, hot spots, etc... then kill other players, attack other player structures, etc... (like in AO, DAoC, for examples.)
You ask what is real enough. I'll admit to having worded this wrong. The problem is not that it isn't real enough. The problem is that it all feels pointless. There's a lack of context for what's happening. You can get around this by joining a role-playing guild or by going into just PvP. These solutions just seem cheap to me however. The game needs to be designed so that the actions in the game have some overall goal that makes sense. Instead of just killing monsters so you can get more gold and XP so that you can get new abilities and equipment so that you can kill bigger monsters and get more gold and XP etc. Let me give you an example of what designing around the context would be like:
Let's make this a game set in the stone age. We'll have Weather patterns and animals will have specific behavior and migratory patterns. The goal of the game is to survive against starvation, exposure and predation. There will be some crafting since people would be able to gather resources and make impliments for hunting, shelter, and clothing. There would only be so much food available in the world and that would be affected by season, weather patterns and birth to death ratios. In such a game, players would have to work together to survive and compete for resources. Since the overall goal is to survive, every player could contribute something to their community in this regard. Killing would be less a matter or leveling up and more a matter of surviving another day. Since characters wouldn't just be walking weapons platforms, crafting would be an essential part of survival. The focus shifts from maxing your stats to keeping everyone alive. Mutually beneficial goals.
There you go! Now you are really talking! Post the problems and your idea of possible solutions! SWG has animals with specific behaviour patterns. One can watch certain animals stalk, and hunt other animals. No MMORPG I know has migratory patterns. As for surviving against starvation - that is an idea for a new MMORPG. EQ does have a form of starvation, but one does not face death. Just slower reflexes and seeing "You are hungrey/thirsty" ever 5 seconds when you run out of food and water heheh. It would be intresting to see how the majority of players feel about a mmorpg that has players die from starvation and dehydration.
Now then, I have no solutions for the problems of this genre. Traveling isn't as much a problem as the quests that require a 4 hour walk there and back again to complete.
No modern mmorpg requires one to walk around for 4 hours. As I said, many mmorpgs have various ways of traveling - including instant, or near-instant traveling via teleporting, spaceships, land vehicles, horses, etc....
Tighter Quests with a little more variety would go along way. I honestly think that games like WoW and GW are making strides in that direction. There's a lot more to do, but they give us a good start. I think that player run events and quests could also do alot to take the monotony and pointlessness out of these games.
AO has player created quests. The problem is the room for abuse. Players can on purpose reward thierselves more than normal. Things can be "set up" so that their friends can level up even quicker, finnish more quests quicker, etc...
The best Co-op games I ever played were in UO with a live GM. Of course, Phantasy Star Online still sets the standard for Co-op RPGs in my book. I haven't played enough DAoC to know what really goes into their RvR combat but I think that an overall team game that had some of the characteristics or RTS games would be welcome.
It sounds like you would be in paradise during the hey day of AC. AC has the record for most co-op playing with live GMs.
Each faction fighting for access to resources
Aka PvP for landcontrol. AO has this. DAoC has a form of this.
or legendary items
There cannot be PvP for items. Because players can set things up so that whatever the item is will get won by whomever needs it.
and each player doing their part towards their factions goals. Gathering resources, crafting, buffing, building structures and fighting.
SWG has all of this. I dare you to make an overt Rebel or Imperial character and watch as you come running an screaming back to these forums after getting the spanking of your life. AO also has this, though not much in the resource gathering and crafting department.
Being able to destroy buildings would go a long way as well. Warfare has a nasty tendency to turn quite little towns into forests of burnt stakes growing out of scorched eath. Let's make those epic battles feel epic and create a semi-lasting impact on the environment.
I suggest you check out AO, SWG, and maybe even SB (Shadow Bane). They have everything you listed.
These are all things that MMORPGs have promised since they took up that stupid acronym. They have, at best, delivered only a few of those things. Once this genre matures a bit more I might put my money down on a monthly basis. Until then I'll be playing NWN.
Nope, they have delivered all of those things. Again, some mmorpgs have some things, some have other things. You even admited you have not played DAoC long enough to get the full experience of its PvP. DAoC has one of the best PvP game features in the MMORPG market. (IMHO AO has the best, followed by DAoC, then SWG. Then far, far, down the line SB.)
I have bad news x, I didn't start this thread. The guy who did has probably lost all intrest in it by now. I am an advocate for getting what you pay for. It is my opinion that MMORPGs are not delivering $75+ (price of the box and a three month card) worth of game. For me it isn't a matter of wether I can afford it. It's a matter of wether or not this or that game deserves it. Ao, played it. AC, bought it the month it came out. UO, picked it up around the second age expansion and didn't bother staying to see the next expansion. EQ I only got to play the PS2 version of it but from what I've seen of the PC version I can't say that I saw a difference.
Where can you destroy buildings in AO? AC had some truely awesome PvP and the live events were a blast, but my schedule at the time didn't allow me to get in on many of them. UO had some wicked deep gameplay and some of the best PvP around but it was also wicked hard without reading up on the fansites first. Traveling has always been a problem for starting characters who don't have the skills or the resources to teleport or by transportation. Think about how long it took you to get the computer skill needed to use the grid in AO. Walk from one town to the next in EQ or DAoC and notice how the landscape is absolutely littered with monster that seem to have overlapping zones of aggro. You walk, you fight, you heal / rest, you walk, you fight, you heal / rest, ad nauseum. It takes forever to get anywhere by foot and in order to use transportation, you first have to grind for several days. No stand alone game is infinitely replayable? Fine, then no MMORPG is infinitely replayable either. As you said, people need to take a break once and awhile.
Finally, no single MMORPG has delivered on the promise. Several MMORPGs have delivered part of the promise, part of the time. None have done the whole sheebang. The one that does, gets the money I clawed from the clutching hands of my employer at great expenditure of time and effort. Until then I'm going to remain a totally cheap bastard.
Originally posted by Jimmy_Scythe I have bad news x, I didn't start this thread. The guy who did has probably lost all intrest in it by now. i still pop in every once in a while to see whats going on.
Originally posted by pistolier Originally posted by strigoiviimost mmorpgs cost 14.99$ a month...thats rounded off to 50cents a day...thats not a lot...even working for 7.25 an hour, 8 hours a week, you can easily pay this fee. two hours of work for one month of gaming sounds about right to me. i am saying this cause i have been proven wrong.
lol true...but this lets you save up money to buy more games
I have bad news x, I didn't start this thread. The guy who did has probably lost all intrest in it by now.
You are right. Looks like you and me teaming up finally got him to get over his phobia of owning up and coming back to show he is trying to grow and mature heheh. I hope he is doing his homework right now, and a few years from now will be making 50,000 per year heheh.
I am an advocate for getting what you pay for. It is my opinion that MMORPGs are not delivering $75+ (price of the box and a three month card) worth of game. For me it isn't a matter of wether I can afford it.
I fully agree with you here. But for the OP it was a matter of him being able to afford it. He was going crazy over the idea of spending $15.oo
It's a matter of wether or not this or that game deserves it.
Fair enough. I fully agree with you on this. Right now though, millions of players aka the majority, feel that 95% of all mmorpgs deserve their $15.oo per month.
Ao, played it. AC, bought it the month it came out. UO, picked it up around the second age expansion and didn't bother staying to see the next expansion. EQ I only got to play the PS2 version of it but from what I've seen of the PC version I can't say that I saw a difference.
The PS2 has less memory than a PC. So there is still a different experience vs playing it on the PC. Did you know EQ is even available to play and download on.... your cell phone?! Yes... I have played EQ on my cellphone! LOL! It is very fun, but I know for a fact it is different than playing on the PC, because I have also played it on the PC.
Where can you destroy buildings in AO?
Players can build defenses to protect their land. Enemy players can come along and destroy the defenses then take over the land.
Think about how long it took you to get the computer skill needed to use the grid in AO.
First, in AO one can instantly travel even when they are level 1 without needing to use the grid. There are other ways of traveling. One is using the teleport machines called "Whoompahs". As for the using the grid - It did not take me that long. I went from level 1 to level 50 in two weeks. By level 50 I was able to use the grid, or shapeshift into bird form and fly (easiest to do if one is an Adventurer). Playing 5 hours each day.
Walk from one town to the next in EQ or DAoC and notice how the landscape is absolutely littered with monster that seem to have overlapping zones of aggro. You walk, you fight, you heal / rest, you walk, you fight, you heal / rest, ad nauseum. It takes forever to get anywhere by foot and in order to use transportation, you first have to grind for several days.
That is the price of being a newbie LOL! But guess what? Even in AO a newbie player can still travel instantly! By using the Whompaahs aka teleporter machines. In EQ new players can now use the teleporting books, and of course get teleported by higher level players. In DAoC there are horses one can ride and very quickly move from place to place. It is not too hard to go from level 1-20 in DAoC. It takes roughly 1 week of playing 4 hours per day. Out of the examples you listed, DAoC takes the longest to get from having to walk - to using the more faster ways of transportation. But to the majority of players - this is the fun of building a character. Learning new skills, advancing, until one has enough skills, experience, to have access to better forms of transportation.
No stand alone game is infinitely replayable? Fine, then no MMORPG is infinitely replayable either. As you said, people need to take a break once and awhile.
I will agree. But the need for a break comes far sooner with a stand alone game. It takes far longer to reach the endgame of a MMORPG. (Many times 1 year or more... vs a stand alone game which takes 1-3 months.)
Finally, no single MMORPG has delivered on the promise.
I fully agree.
Several MMORPGs have delivered part of the promise, part of the time. None have done the whole sheebang.
This is very true! SWG does come very close to being a single MMORPG that delivers on almost every single good thing being in one MMORPG. But it is like owning 3 different cars. Use the 2 seater sports car when one wants to push it, and cruise. Use the Pick-Up Truck to haul large items. Use the Van to drive the family, kids, around. Play whatever MMORPG whenever one feels in the mood for its best parts. EQ for the leveling fun. AO for the PvP for landcontrol, and perfected atmospheric flight. EvE online for the PvP between capital ships, and to get away from Swords & Sorcery-themes.
The one that does, gets the money I clawed from the clutching hands of my employer at great expenditure of time and effort. Until then I'm going to remain a totally cheap bastard.
Heh, your choice.
I will say this much, at least make an attempt to post on the forums of your favorite MMORPG to try and get them to include what you like, or which they would put in. It is ok to complain. But it is even better to never give up, and keep on trying to make a change for the positive.
It is a very good point to bring up since MMos are sucking us in and then telling us monthly fees are to help the game update but i mean say WoW over 1 Million people play it thats $50 dollars times 1 million 50 Million dollars just from game sales and we need to pay monthly i think 50 mil is good enough to make a VR version of WoW
So yes they should not have monthly fees its just another way to take you money for something you sometimes barely play.
Thats another reason some games make it really hard to cancel and for EQ once it wouldnt work at all and for a year i got charged so finally i canceled my credit card and yelled at them but they dont care so yes Monthly Fees should not be something in MMos
Even game systems have it nowadays Xbox Live/ Gamecube Online all that shat not worth it why dont they just give it for free they already make over 10 mil in game and system sales sheesh
Originally posted by SLizer6893 Lets just say Companies are Dirty Greedy Meanies
This is news?
That said, however, an MMORPG isn't like a single player game. Companies don't just develop them, throw them in a box, stick em on the shelves then forget about them. No, they have to provide ongoing support for them. Constant updates and upgrades to them. Pay for massive bandwidth for them. (OC3's aint cheap) Pay IT Staff to support their infrastructure and security systems. Pay customer support staff (far more staff than a single player game requires).
Maintaining an MMORPG is not cheap, it incurrs ongoing expenses that a company must either absorb or pass on to the customer. As long as people keep paying the fees the fees will stay where they are at. If people had refused to play games that cost over $9.95 a month back in the '90's we wouldn't have $15.95 a month games today, they'd still all be $9.95 a month. But no, the sheep jumped up and paid $12.95 for DAOC and AO and other titles and then when the bar was raised to $14.95 they paid that too.....
The bottom line is that the companies will charge whatever the market will bear. There ARE cheaper (and even free) MMORPG's out there. Nobody plays them though, the vast majority of MMORPG players play the $14.95 a month titles. As long as the majority pay and the minority play free games the companies will continue charging what the market will bear.
It's supply and demand. They have the supply but we own the demand. If you want prices to come down you need to show companies that players aren't willing to pay the fees they set. Good luck with that. Because, frankly, most people don't mind $15 a month for hundreds of hours a year worth of entertainment (for some people it's thousands of hours).
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
I have bad news x, I didn't start this thread. The guy who did has probably lost all intrest in it by now. You are right. Looks like you and me teaming up finally got him to get over his phobia of owning up and coming back to show he is trying to grow and mature heheh. I hope he is doing is homework right now, and a few years from now will be making 50,000 per year heheh.
if you want to know the truth i am going to be making a couple of mill. but thats a different story all together
The retail version of the game you buy is revenue that goes to the publisher, pays the salary of all who helped on the game, pays for everything that is needed to set up the game, and of course profit. The monthly fee goes to the remaining devs and programmers/art designers salary. Not all the devs and programmers/art designers stay after release. Many are on contracts. The fee goes to maintaining servers including paying professionals to maintain them. The money goes to updates, and is a source of funding for upcoming expansions and live updates(R&D). Also, it goes to profit.
15 dollars a month for a game you play 20 hours a week for 4 months(many times much more) is a super deal. I don't buy new games. The most a would pay for a game is 30 bucks, because I can beat any non-mmo game on the market in less than 2 weeks. I can run through 3-4 a month. That could be up to $120 a month. Let's say I stick to buying 1 a month. Ok, thats 30 bucks. Twice what I just paid to play a MMO that can keep me entertained for months or years. I'm not sure why you would even think a MMO is expensive.
As said a few post ago. I don't really think it's a matter of being able to afford to pay the monthly fee for games that gets to some people. Though I can see how that can be a problem for some and I do understand that and not willing to throw it in anyone's face. Half the time though I don't feel that some of these games are even worth the price increase they have gone through.
For example, lets take Everquest. A huge world and the say the reason for the increase cost is to deal with server cost, etc. Now look at the world with each new expansio they add more and more zones. This is great and I'm sure that does take up space. But guess what due to adding all these new areas more and more of the game gets empty. It's not like these new areas are being used along with the older areas. That's not the really the case. All of the older areas and even some of the areas from past expansions get emptied out in favor of the new areas. So it's not like there is an extra amount of stress on the server due to making the world bigger. With all these new games coming out, every game is actualling going to lose some peopel for a time. Some might come back but more likely then not you are goign to experience a somewhat permanent drop.
It's not like you are getting more for the money. It's really the same old same old. Go to a new area, hunt, get better loot. It's not like the world is ever changing. Qeynos and Freeport look the same as they do now in EQ1 as they did when Everquest first came out. Sure that has changed with a few dungeons in that they get revamped but really is that enough to justify a price increase? Many of the areas in EQ1 are worthless space now since they sit unused for so long. Who even goes into the Karnas anymore or any of the starting cities anymore when they can start a character and shoot right up to Plane of Knowledge after hunting in some of the newbie zones and then it's off to Padual Caverns or some Luclin zone to level quick. Everyone is pretty much forced into that or they can break from the mold and hunt in the own areas alone. At least if you end up by yourself in the new areas or heavy populated areas which everyone goes to now you still have the OOC channel which you can't use anywhere were it's empty since it's zone based.
EQ1 was great at $10 a month. The increase to $13 was pushing it a bit I felt but I went along with it. Now that it's up to $15 a month I have to say why? For what honest reason is Everquest Online Adventures now charging $13 a month for?
I can understand the need and desire to make a profit off these games and to make a lot of money. But really at times I have to question why do I and well others pay these price increases. What are we really getting in return that actually justify the price increase even if the price is only a little more. Sure going from 10 to 13 isn't much. What about 13 to 15? How about when it goes from 15 to 17? Then 17 to 20, etc.. A lot of people I think just go with the flow and add it up to the times changing but I think when the prices rises even more, more people, or at least hope more people will start to ask exactly what am I getting for this money that I wasn't getting when the price was $13 a month?
Usually with expansions it comes down you exchanging one area of the game for another. Sure it makes the world bigger but does that even matter? It's not like you continue to go to the old areas you were in, you are tired of them and go to the new ones. So while you have more game to explore in, do you really bother to advantage of all of it? Is the game even setup or presents itself as wanting you to take advantage of all of it or does it basicly filter you into these new areas all the time? If so why are you paying more for just exchanging areas after you've already bought the expansion, why the increase in monthly price?
Sometimes I can agree with the increase in price. If you get more game events that you can take part in, extra options for your characters, more interactivity with the game world, etc. All of that continues and you get more and more elements on a personal level. The Legends server for example is a good example of a reason to pay more a month. I don't agree with the actual price for that but it's a good example of you actually getting something for your money that you weren't getting before and you weren' tjust exchanging one area for another, having the other go to waste. At least that's if you take the idea of the Legends server at it's ideal discription. I'm not sure if SOE ever came through with all that was promised for those that payed the extra money though.
An actual increase in service in game justifies an incrase in the monthly fee I feel. Increase in graphics? Not so much I think. Sure work is put into graphics but you already pay for that when you buy the expansion. Same for the new area, etc. But like I suggested, all you do is exchange one area for another and mostly don't bother with many of the old areas and in time they get abandon. Even with no zoned games certain areas see even less and less traffic. For example Lush Fields in Anarchy Online. When the game first game out it was always full of people hunting or exploring even though players could do group missions. With Shadowlands it became somewhat empty. Even with Dark Age of Camelot. When SI came out lots of the areas in the original lands had less people, even less when Trials of Atlantis came out and even less I bet(havent' played since) since Catacombs came out and it might be empty now save for low levels trying to find those to group with in order to visit the high level areas of the expansions.
I guess what I'm saying is that sometimes the increase in price really isn't worth it at times. I have no problems paying for expansions since I know what I'm getting when I pay but the increase in monthly payment, I don't really see what I'm getting at times. Especially if things actually get worse at times in terms of service or content.
Comments
I have bad news x, I didn't start this thread. The guy who did has probably lost all intrest in it by now. I am an advocate for getting what you pay for. It is my opinion that MMORPGs are not delivering $75+ (price of the box and a three month card) worth of game. For me it isn't a matter of wether I can afford it. It's a matter of wether or not this or that game deserves it. Ao, played it. AC, bought it the month it came out. UO, picked it up around the second age expansion and didn't bother staying to see the next expansion. EQ I only got to play the PS2 version of it but from what I've seen of the PC version I can't say that I saw a difference.
Where can you destroy buildings in AO? AC had some truely awesome PvP and the live events were a blast, but my schedule at the time didn't allow me to get in on many of them. UO had some wicked deep gameplay and some of the best PvP around but it was also wicked hard without reading up on the fansites first. Traveling has always been a problem for starting characters who don't have the skills or the resources to teleport or by transportation. Think about how long it took you to get the computer skill needed to use the grid in AO. Walk from one town to the next in EQ or DAoC and notice how the landscape is absolutely littered with monster that seem to have overlapping zones of aggro. You walk, you fight, you heal / rest, you walk, you fight, you heal / rest, ad nauseum. It takes forever to get anywhere by foot and in order to use transportation, you first have to grind for several days. No stand alone game is infinitely replayable? Fine, then no MMORPG is infinitely replayable either. As you said, people need to take a break once and awhile.
Finally, no single MMORPG has delivered on the promise. Several MMORPGs have delivered part of the promise, part of the time. None have done the whole sheebang. The one that does, gets the money I clawed from the clutching hands of my employer at great expenditure of time and effort. Until then I'm going to remain a totally cheap bastard.
lol true...but this lets you save up money to buy more games
ALOT OF PEOPLE DO
Runescape has a total of 2.6 million players and that is just 1 game(srry it is free but who cares)
Heh, your choice.
I will say this much, at least make an attempt to post on the forums of your favorite MMORPG to try and get them to include what you like, or which they would put in. It is ok to complain. But it is even better to never give up, and keep on trying to make a change for the positive.
It is a very good point to bring up since MMos are sucking us in and then telling us monthly fees are to help the game update but i mean say WoW over 1 Million people play it thats $50 dollars times 1 million
50 Million dollars just from game sales and we need to pay monthly i think 50 mil is good enough to make a VR version of WoW
So yes they should not have monthly fees its just another way to take you money for something you sometimes barely play.
Thats another reason some games make it really hard to cancel and for EQ once it wouldnt work at all and for a year i got charged so finally i canceled my credit card and yelled at them but they dont care so yes Monthly Fees should not be something in MMos
Even game systems have it nowadays Xbox Live/ Gamecube Online all that shat not worth it why dont they just give it for free they already make over 10 mil in game and system sales sheesh
Lets just say Companies are Dirty Greedy Meanies
This is news?
That said, however, an MMORPG isn't like a single player game. Companies don't just develop them, throw them in a box, stick em on the shelves then forget about them. No, they have to provide ongoing support for them. Constant updates and upgrades to them. Pay for massive bandwidth for them. (OC3's aint cheap) Pay IT Staff to support their infrastructure and security systems. Pay customer support staff (far more staff than a single player game requires).
Maintaining an MMORPG is not cheap, it incurrs ongoing expenses that a company must either absorb or pass on to the customer. As long as people keep paying the fees the fees will stay where they are at. If people had refused to play games that cost over $9.95 a month back in the '90's we wouldn't have $15.95 a month games today, they'd still all be $9.95 a month. But no, the sheep jumped up and paid $12.95 for DAOC and AO and other titles and then when the bar was raised to $14.95 they paid that too.....
The bottom line is that the companies will charge whatever the market will bear. There ARE cheaper (and even free) MMORPG's out there. Nobody plays them though, the vast majority of MMORPG players play the $14.95 a month titles. As long as the majority pay and the minority play free games the companies will continue charging what the market will bear.
It's supply and demand. They have the supply but we own the demand. If you want prices to come down you need to show companies that players aren't willing to pay the fees they set. Good luck with that. Because, frankly, most people don't mind $15 a month for hundreds of hours a year worth of entertainment (for some people it's thousands of hours).
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
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The retail version of the game you buy is revenue that goes to the publisher, pays the salary of all who helped on the game, pays for everything that is needed to set up the game, and of course profit. The monthly fee goes to the remaining devs and programmers/art designers salary. Not all the devs and programmers/art designers stay after release. Many are on contracts. The fee goes to maintaining servers including paying professionals to maintain them. The money goes to updates, and is a source of funding for upcoming expansions and live updates(R&D). Also, it goes to profit.
15 dollars a month for a game you play 20 hours a week for 4 months(many times much more) is a super deal. I don't buy new games. The most a would pay for a game is 30 bucks, because I can beat any non-mmo game on the market in less than 2 weeks. I can run through 3-4 a month. That could be up to $120 a month. Let's say I stick to buying 1 a month. Ok, thats 30 bucks. Twice what I just paid to play a MMO that can keep me entertained for months or years. I'm not sure why you would even think a MMO is expensive.
As said a few post ago. I don't really think it's a matter of being able to afford to pay the monthly fee for games that gets to some people. Though I can see how that can be a problem for some and I do understand that and not willing to throw it in anyone's face. Half the time though I don't feel that some of these games are even worth the price increase they have gone through.
For example, lets take Everquest. A huge world and the say the reason for the increase cost is to deal with server cost, etc. Now look at the world with each new expansio they add more and more zones. This is great and I'm sure that does take up space. But guess what due to adding all these new areas more and more of the game gets empty. It's not like these new areas are being used along with the older areas. That's not the really the case. All of the older areas and even some of the areas from past expansions get emptied out in favor of the new areas. So it's not like there is an extra amount of stress on the server due to making the world bigger. With all these new games coming out, every game is actualling going to lose some peopel for a time. Some might come back but more likely then not you are goign to experience a somewhat permanent drop.
It's not like you are getting more for the money. It's really the same old same old. Go to a new area, hunt, get better loot. It's not like the world is ever changing. Qeynos and Freeport look the same as they do now in EQ1 as they did when Everquest first came out. Sure that has changed with a few dungeons in that they get revamped but really is that enough to justify a price increase? Many of the areas in EQ1 are worthless space now since they sit unused for so long. Who even goes into the Karnas anymore or any of the starting cities anymore when they can start a character and shoot right up to Plane of Knowledge after hunting in some of the newbie zones and then it's off to Padual Caverns or some Luclin zone to level quick. Everyone is pretty much forced into that or they can break from the mold and hunt in the own areas alone. At least if you end up by yourself in the new areas or heavy populated areas which everyone goes to now you still have the OOC channel which you can't use anywhere were it's empty since it's zone based.
EQ1 was great at $10 a month. The increase to $13 was pushing it a bit I felt but I went along with it. Now that it's up to $15 a month I have to say why? For what honest reason is Everquest Online Adventures now charging $13 a month for?
I can understand the need and desire to make a profit off these games and to make a lot of money. But really at times I have to question why do I and well others pay these price increases. What are we really getting in return that actually justify the price increase even if the price is only a little more. Sure going from 10 to 13 isn't much. What about 13 to 15? How about when it goes from 15 to 17? Then 17 to 20, etc.. A lot of people I think just go with the flow and add it up to the times changing but I think when the prices rises even more, more people, or at least hope more people will start to ask exactly what am I getting for this money that I wasn't getting when the price was $13 a month?
Usually with expansions it comes down you exchanging one area of the game for another. Sure it makes the world bigger but does that even matter? It's not like you continue to go to the old areas you were in, you are tired of them and go to the new ones. So while you have more game to explore in, do you really bother to advantage of all of it? Is the game even setup or presents itself as wanting you to take advantage of all of it or does it basicly filter you into these new areas all the time? If so why are you paying more for just exchanging areas after you've already bought the expansion, why the increase in monthly price?
Sometimes I can agree with the increase in price. If you get more game events that you can take part in, extra options for your characters, more interactivity with the game world, etc. All of that continues and you get more and more elements on a personal level. The Legends server for example is a good example of a reason to pay more a month. I don't agree with the actual price for that but it's a good example of you actually getting something for your money that you weren't getting before and you weren' tjust exchanging one area for another, having the other go to waste. At least that's if you take the idea of the Legends server at it's ideal discription. I'm not sure if SOE ever came through with all that was promised for those that payed the extra money though.
An actual increase in service in game justifies an incrase in the monthly fee I feel. Increase in graphics? Not so much I think. Sure work is put into graphics but you already pay for that when you buy the expansion. Same for the new area, etc. But like I suggested, all you do is exchange one area for another and mostly don't bother with many of the old areas and in time they get abandon. Even with no zoned games certain areas see even less and less traffic. For example Lush Fields in Anarchy Online. When the game first game out it was always full of people hunting or exploring even though players could do group missions. With Shadowlands it became somewhat empty. Even with Dark Age of Camelot. When SI came out lots of the areas in the original lands had less people, even less when Trials of Atlantis came out and even less I bet(havent' played since) since Catacombs came out and it might be empty now save for low levels trying to find those to group with in order to visit the high level areas of the expansions.
I guess what I'm saying is that sometimes the increase in price really isn't worth it at times. I have no problems paying for expansions since I know what I'm getting when I pay but the increase in monthly payment, I don't really see what I'm getting at times. Especially if things actually get worse at times in terms of service or content.
Anyway back to the discussion.
Just remove the damned monthly fees
i~ku~ra
[quote]Originally posted by ikra
Just remove the damned monthly fees[/quote
Word...
This will fix everything...
This thread will never die.