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Most MMORPGs = Rodents & Mazes Rather Than Dungeons & Dragons
cantankerousmage
Member UncommonPosts: 992
All your rodent (i.e. character) basically does is chase cheese. Go to cheese meister (i.e quest giver). Run around and kill and come back. Get cheese. Repeat. Repeat some more. Run through the maze (dungeon). Kill if you have to. Run some more. Kill again. Get big cheese (chest). Repeat. Repeat again. And again. Become really cheesy. Repeat. Repeat as many times as you can possibly stand it.
Comments
I don't get it.
even in D&D one usually did the same thing over and over. . .receive quest, do quest, get Exp/loot, receive quest, do quest, get exp/loot. . .
why is it bad in Veedeo Gaems and not in D&D?
maybe you just hate video games. . .
In pencil-and-paper rpgs, you don't have to fight all the time. You don't even have to fight most of the time or half the time. You can do many, many other things. You can earn experience in many different ways besides combat if your DM allows it. Your character is a part of a living, breathing world. Your character's words and deeds, choices and decisions, can effect and change the game world in a multitude of ways limited only by the imaginations of the players and the DM. You can kill important NPCs if you want. You can be a villain if you want. Or you can eventually build your own castle, have your own soldiers, and fight your very own wars. You could become a king. Or a merchant prince. Or leader of a thieves guild or a gang of bandits. Whatever you want. In some campaigns, there is even a path to godhood available.
You can become anything you role-play your character to be and do. Hopefully you make a history and personality for your character. Motivations and desires, goals for your character to accomplish in the world. And then play in character. You don't have to, but it makes the game way more fun if you do.
you can do all that in mmorpgs to. . .every single thing you just said you can do in MMORPGs. . .
Specifically for me, EvE online is where I have personally done the majority of what you just tried to prove your convoluted point with. . .
Edit:
As I typed this comment I was watching some back episodes of Critical Role. . .you know what Vox Machina do the majority of the time? get quests, do quests get exp rinse and repeat. . .now you might call my DM's shit. . .but I dont think you would say the same thing about matt mercer or chris perkins. . .
And yes, I'll call any DM clueless if they don't let their players characters do the kinds of things I described. I don't care who they think they are. There isn't any human better than me, and I'm not better than any other human. We all have strengths and weaknesses. We all have to drink water, eat, sleep, and use the toilet.
I guess you missed this statement I made ( or you just convenietly ignored it) every single thing you just said you can do in MMORPGs. . .
as far as DMs go. .
you don't know who those people are do you?
maybe go watch them DM before you embarrass yourself further. . .
Chris Perkins is the current lead story designer for D&D as well as senior producer. . . he has worked in a design position for Wizards of the Coast for almost twenty years now. so I think He might have a better grasp of D&D than both of us. .
The difference being in pencil and paper RPGs everything is entirely in the imagination of the DM and the players, so there are no limits.
In MMORPGs as in real life things are concrete, everything is predefined, so players have to operate with the much more limited tools and scenarios at hand, repeating them as necessary.
I've run many quests in MMOs which involved no fighting, heck once in WOW I travelled the realms taking photographs.
I also was once the hero of Stormwind, with all of the guards calling out my name as I entered the city and escorting me to the throne room. (where as I recall, I had to do some serious ass kicking)
I've even had to assasinate kings and lords, without fighting my way in and out of their keep.
But in every case such scenarios were limited, and of course available to all in a MMORPG.
At their core MMORPGS are about progressing your avatar. You can grind kill npcs to progress, or grind quest to progress, grind kill other players to progress, grind craft to progress, etc but by their very design you grind something to reach your goal.
It really isn't about having fun, (though it can be) its about reaching your goals. Much as training to be the best you can be in most anything in life, (athlete, soldier, artist etc) you do a lot of repetitive activities to get better and succeed.
MMORPGS really aren't for you and likely never will be. Good thing you have pencil and paper RPGs instead.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
- the mouse and wheel to e.g. daily quests and other grind mechanics (whack a rat etc.)
- pen and paper to scripted quests in mmos, co-op games even single player games
Then that might work. The scripted - one off - quest stuff is expensive and takes time to create. Just as it takes a DM time to create an adventure or a new one has to be bought every time and ideally read through before use.
And even then, as @Kyleran says above, there are fundamental limits with current games; going forward with (much) better AI that may change.
As stated though its to wide imo.
I thought they were about being massively multiplayer online and roleplaying games.
Oh wait. Nobody roleplays in MMORPGs anymore...
Maybe the single minded focus on character progression over building rich immersive worlds has killed what this entire genre is supposed to be about. What it's very name is derived from.
But a hamster in spinning wheel is a good comparison.
What exactly is your point????
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I think you had enough cheese with that whine.
I don't care who Chris Perkins is, but thanks for telling me anyway. I was playing AD&D over twenty years ago. I can, do, and have read many, many things, including D&D, AD&D, and other p&p rpg manuals and rulebooks. I also have very a good memory. I have over a 130 IQ, and I'll score in the high ninetieth percentile on any English language, grammar, or writing test you want to give me. If I had really wanted a job working for a game company of any kind, I could have gotten one. I started learning 3D modeling and computer programming over ten years ago, but I stopped because I enjoy writing and research better.
I was also a depressed alcoholic for most of my life, so that tended to get in my way at times. One of my former best friends that I grew up with has worked for Blizzard for over ten years. (As a computer animator/designer most likely, I know that's what he went to school for.) One of his younger brothers worked for Red 5, but I don't know what he's doing anymore. I haven't talked to him for awhile.
There are not as many limits as you think there are.
If it's over your head, don't worry about it.
Wow, that was so totally original. I don't know how you came up with that one.
Guild Wars 2 and EVE (which EVE was said) only two I can think of for MMOs that aren't like that. GW2 literally the items are super easy to get and while there are legendaries...its 99% all cosmetic and the rare items you get are pretty much as good as legendaries. There is no grind or cheap content where you have to grind a 0.01 better item to take part in "endgame".
MMOs are the only genre that the developers cheap out on endgame content (well except GW2/EVE are the highest quality of content in MMOs).
In Skyrim, the game is about adventuring and exploring a world and doing quests. Sure there are better items, but it never feels like a grind or going after a slightly better item...its really about the world and the quests.
Even leagues of legends and other similar games...there is no grind to get a slightly bigger piece of cheese. You can unlock heroes in most of that genre, but they don't really give a bigger bonus, just a different way to play.
That is why I stopped playing WoW. It felt like I was a rat trapped in a maze, and going on the grind wheel. Its why I now only play GW2/EVE, high quality, SMART made content...not lazy content because the developers know most people are too stupid (a lot of really stupid people in the world) to do anything else but grind for a 0.01 better item and think that is real content.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Just as the very fact that PnP/D&D and video games are two entirely different things, seems to be over yours. It's a bad comparison from the get go. hence why even D&D games are completely different than their PnP source.. Even RP itself is different in a video game. It's more personal since all the key elements are already realized for you.
Secondly following the cheese, chasing the dragon, or whatever you want to call it is something you choose to do in just about any game. IF you're playing for that purpose, that's on you. There are plenty who do not play that way, who do not care about epics, running the latest dungeon, following a quest hub at all times, etc... If you're making a bee line toward some arbitrary goal, you're obviously not being impulsive, curious, or exploratory. It seems all you're really playing for is what you can gain.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
it's always great to see when yet another person wakes up to the reality of the themepark mmo!
Just because some people are having fun, that doesn't mean there might not be a better way to do things.
makes you wonder if this is why games like WoW and FF14 insist on forcing the players into the dungeon content.....
True. They aren't very complicated mazes.