It's such a shame that Bioware failed with SWTOR, they came close, but failed on one major aspect...

tixylix

I loved the art style, obviously the setting goes without saying, the UI was acceptable, the story and quests were all great for an MMO. I even thought it had the strongest combat of any MMO since WoW, that is until 1.2 came out and I felt like they sped up the combat too much, I preferred the older slower combat. It used to feel a bit like SWG where the fights could go on for above 15 mins, it felt so tactical and fun, but 1.2 made it much quicker.

SWTOR also had one of the best bits of content that was so unintentional, there was this Holocron you had to get on a Balloon ride to on Tatooine. What made this great was it's in a PVP zone and you just had fights with he enemy to get on it, if you lost you had to wait like 30 mins to have another try. In fact that was such a fun unintentional PVP objective that I bet Bioware probably patched it out...

I thought every aspect of it was great, it just had one down fall, that was the lack of a world, it felt like a hub game you just instant traveled everywhere. As a result it didn't feel like an MMORPG to me, it felt like Guild Wars or Destiny. The biggest problem was in beta they added these Fleet stations, they just offered everything you ever needed, so people just stayed inside them and grinder instances and Battlegrounds. I really didn't understand why they did that when they had capital cities that were intended for this use already. Instead we had capital cities that were empty, they were essentially Fleet Stations, so it made no sense to me to make the Fleet Stations as well. That's why you then had this weird feeling when you warped from planet to planet, there felt like there was this extra step that wasn't needed, this was introduced because of these Fleet Stations. 

There was no ambient music, no ambient sounds, NPCs didn't roam about like other MMORPGs and they were often locked into the same animation, for example one Jedi lifting up another Jedi in training forever... at least have a routine, don't just have this static crap. 


Every aspect of SWOTR felt so polished, but this one MAJOR factor just killed the whole game for me. It also made levelling really boring as you went to the same places each time you made a new character. I wish they copied the WoW style of world design back from Vanilla, it's one thing that totally made WoW amazing, but for some reason every single other MMO since seems to ignore this. 

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Kabulozo

The only thing that still kept this game afloat was the Star Wars attachted to the title. If it were a new franchise, same game but another name, it would dead a much longer time ago like Wildstar.

JeffSpicoli

I tried to go back a few weeks ago , after watching all the star wars movies i was pretty pumped to return. Everything just feel's like a card board cut out, Think a bad western movie set . The story is superb but everything else just feels, well, off.

someforumguy

I can't say it fails as MMO, but it has some longevity issues that it shares with more modern MMO's. After you finish the main story content (maybe on a 2nd toon for other faction too), there is not much left for replayability outside PVP.

I always liked the graphics style too in SWTOR and it is Star Wars and I
can even live with the (imo) boring combat, but it lacks some features
for me to stay for longer.

I think this is just the main issue with modern MMO's that don't offer a virtual world with features that tie into that world in a sensible way, but instead offer mainly a story on rails. A great presented story like in SWTOR can be very immersive of course, but it has an end.

I think The Secret World and ESO suffer from the same problem. They are nice games, but outside of your story quests and PVP, there is not much to do. Those MMO's seem to be built around a story, with then certain features added to it (crafting, pvp, housing) without much thought on how it fits into the game. Only PVP usually creates longevity with modern MMO's. People who stay for the PVE dailies/achievements seem like a very small crowd.

Dauzqul

I never felt like I was part of world in SWTOR. I liked the look, I liked the combat, I liked the lore...   but there was nothing "massive" about it, e.g., small instanced bg pvp, heavy quest-line story, etc. It felt more like a very nice multiplayer RPG - not a MASSIVE multiplayer game.

Horusra

someforumguy said:

I can't say it fails as MMO, but it has some longevity issues that it shares with more modern MMO's. After you finish the main story content (maybe on a 2nd toon for other faction too), there is not much left for replayability outside PVP.

I always liked the graphics style too in SWTOR and it is Star Wars and I

can even live with the (imo) boring combat, but it lacks some features

for me to stay for longer.

I think this is just the main issue with modern MMO's that don't offer a virtual world with features that tie into that world in a sensible way, but instead offer mainly a story on rails. A great presented story like in SWTOR can be very immersive of course, but it has an end.

I think The Secret World and ESO suffer from the same problem. They are nice games, but outside of your story quests and PVP, there is not much to do. Those MMO's seem to be built around a story, with then certain features added to it (crafting, pvp, housing) without much thought on how it fits into the game. Only PVP usually creates longevity with modern MMO's. People who stay for the PVE dailies/achievements seem like a very small crowd.

yeah EQ and WoW call into question your opinions....

Coorslite

someforumguy said:

I can't say it fails as MMO, but it has some longevity issues that it shares with more modern MMO's. After you finish the main story content (maybe on a 2nd toon for other faction too), there is not much left for replayability outside PVP.

I always liked the graphics style too in SWTOR and it is Star Wars and I

can even live with the (imo) boring combat, but it lacks some features

for me to stay for longer.

I think this is just the main issue with modern MMO's that don't offer a virtual world with features that tie into that world in a sensible way, but instead offer mainly a story on rails. A great presented story like in SWTOR can be very immersive of course, but it has an end.

I think The Secret World and ESO suffer from the same problem. They are nice games, but outside of your story quests and PVP, there is not much to do. Those MMO's seem to be built around a story, with then certain features added to it (crafting, pvp, housing) without much thought on how it fits into the game. Only PVP usually creates longevity with modern MMO's. People who stay for the PVE dailies/achievements seem like a very small crowd.

So true! I think that's why in the early days of MMO's when the games weren't on rails it was us the players who made the worlds come to life. Once they started catering to the solo gamer that was when MMO's lost their way.

someforumguy

Horusra said:

someforumguy said:

I can't say it fails as MMO, but it has some longevity issues that it shares with more modern MMO's. After you finish the main story content (maybe on a 2nd toon for other faction too), there is not much left for replayability outside PVP.

I always liked the graphics style too in SWTOR and it is Star Wars and I


can even live with the (imo) boring combat, but it lacks some features


for me to stay for longer.

I think this is just the main issue with modern MMO's that don't offer a virtual world with features that tie into that world in a sensible way, but instead offer mainly a story on rails. A great presented story like in SWTOR can be very immersive of course, but it has an end.

I think The Secret World and ESO suffer from the same problem. They are nice games, but outside of your story quests and PVP, there is not much to do. Those MMO's seem to be built around a story, with then certain features added to it (crafting, pvp, housing) without much thought on how it fits into the game. Only PVP usually creates longevity with modern MMO's. People who stay for the PVE dailies/achievements seem like a very small crowd.

yeah EQ and WoW call into question your opinions....

Both a lot older and specifically not mentioned in my post for that reason. Both also have a very solid and large world, but more importantly are from a time when there were not many alternative MMO's. 

Anyway, those would not be my example of how it could be done otherwise. That would be SWG or UO. Player driven economies, large worlds, elaborate crafting systems and player cities/housing that had an actual use.

Nowadays you find this more in smaller scale online survival games (minecraft, Ark etc) then in MMORPG's. Although The Repopulation is trying this too (but I have no great hopes for it).

Horusra

someforumguy said:

Horusra said:

someforumguy said:

I can't say it fails as MMO, but it has some longevity issues that it shares with more modern MMO's. After you finish the main story content (maybe on a 2nd toon for other faction too), there is not much left for replayability outside PVP.

I always liked the graphics style too in SWTOR and it is Star Wars and I



can even live with the (imo) boring combat, but it lacks some features



for me to stay for longer.

I think this is just the main issue with modern MMO's that don't offer a virtual world with features that tie into that world in a sensible way, but instead offer mainly a story on rails. A great presented story like in SWTOR can be very immersive of course, but it has an end.

I think The Secret World and ESO suffer from the same problem. They are nice games, but outside of your story quests and PVP, there is not much to do. Those MMO's seem to be built around a story, with then certain features added to it (crafting, pvp, housing) without much thought on how it fits into the game. Only PVP usually creates longevity with modern MMO's. People who stay for the PVE dailies/achievements seem like a very small crowd.

yeah EQ and WoW call into question your opinions....

Both a lot older and specifically not mentioned in my post for that reason. Both also have a very solid and large world, but more importantly are from a time when there were not many alternative MMO's. 

Anyway, those would not be my example of how it could be done otherwise. That would be SWG or UO. Player driven economies, large worlds, elaborate crafting systems and player cities/housing that had an actual use.

Nowadays you find this more in smaller scale online survival games (minecraft, Ark etc) then in MMORPG's. Although The Repopulation is trying this too (but I have no great hopes for it).

Why exactly has SWTOR failed...is it closing down or is it just your opinion it is failing.  

someforumguy

Horusra said:

someforumguy said:

Horusra said:

someforumguy said:

I can't say it fails as MMO, but it has some longevity issues that it shares with more modern MMO's. After you finish the main story content (maybe on a 2nd toon for other faction too), there is not much left for replayability outside PVP.

I always liked the graphics style too in SWTOR and it is Star Wars and I




can even live with the (imo) boring combat, but it lacks some features




for me to stay for longer.

I think this is just the main issue with modern MMO's that don't offer a virtual world with features that tie into that world in a sensible way, but instead offer mainly a story on rails. A great presented story like in SWTOR can be very immersive of course, but it has an end.

I think The Secret World and ESO suffer from the same problem. They are nice games, but outside of your story quests and PVP, there is not much to do. Those MMO's seem to be built around a story, with then certain features added to it (crafting, pvp, housing) without much thought on how it fits into the game. Only PVP usually creates longevity with modern MMO's. People who stay for the PVE dailies/achievements seem like a very small crowd.

yeah EQ and WoW call into question your opinions....

Both a lot older and specifically not mentioned in my post for that reason. Both also have a very solid and large world, but more importantly are from a time when there were not many alternative MMO's. 

Anyway, those would not be my example of how it could be done otherwise. That would be SWG or UO. Player driven economies, large worlds, elaborate crafting systems and player cities/housing that had an actual use.

Nowadays you find this more in smaller scale online survival games (minecraft, Ark etc) then in MMORPG's. Although The Repopulation is trying this too (but I have no great hopes for it).

Why exactly has SWTOR failed...is it closing down or is it just your opinion it is failing.  

Check my first post please. You seem to have trouble reading. First you suggest I think the same about EQ and WoW and now you suggest I said that SWTOR failed. In both cases you seem to be just putting words in my mouth.

Maybe you confuse me with someone else?

Shodanas

Ah.. extra salty tears. Ma favorite flavor.

jitter77

I am a big star wars fan and bought the game after beta even though I did not like it.  I did not like the corridor fighting and what really drove me nuts was first quest was you go 1/3rd of the way through the "corridor" then you had to fight your way back to the quest giver.  Then next quest you had to go 2/3rds of the way down the corridor fight your way there, kill the quest stuff, and then fight your way back to turn in.  The 3rd quest was you guessed it, go the whole way down etc etc........

Iselin

It's just a symptom of developers of AAA MMOs trying to be all things to all people. They know that there are people who prefer BG PvP to open world, so they include both. They know that some people want to fast travel everywhere, so they add that. They know some people care nothing about the game feeling like a world, so they create convenient hubs for them.

It seems to take a smaller developer without dreams of WOW-like glory to make a decision about doing things one way instead of all possible ways.

VengeSunsoar

That seems to be a player dichotomy here. We constantly complain about being limited and yet we are also complaining when developers add more choice. Sometimes I do just want to follow quests and use fast travel and sometimes I want to go off on my own. 

Them adding more options is a good thing.

bcbully

Swtor did everything it could to design out Wpvp. They made it almost impossible to happen. Then Ilum failed. Pvprs were left with the same 2 battle grounds to do over and over and over. With delaying of pvp rankings with patch 1.3 came a mass exodus. 

Swtor was introuble the moment they decided designing out the War in Star Wars was a good idea. 

Iselin

bcbully said:

Swtor did everything it could to design out Wpvp. They made it almost impossible to happen. Then Ilum failed. Pvprs were left with the same 2 battle grounds to do over and over and over. With delaying of pvp rankings with patch 1.3 came a mass exodus. 

Swtor was introuble the moment they decided designing out the War in Star Wars was a good idea. 

Yup. The sad state of how they released the almost totally broken Ilum and then abandoning it was a huge negative for me

MaxBacon

Well, SWTOR is the most expensive MMO ever created, and it kinda had a game to justify that claim, it was on several points and the direction that they went after launch that resulted on a constant decay. If only the direction would have been another SWTOR would have been huge today.

tixylix

Torval said:

Yeah, it doesn't feel like a typical open mmo like WoW, EQ2, LotRO, Wildstar, etc. But it feels a lot like a Star Wars experience to me. Star Wars is about action and adventure and TOR delivers that for me.

I get that some people want to be moisture farmers on a desert planet but I think an IP like Dune fits that thematically much better than Star Wars. Most Star Wars fans like action and adventure over substance. That's one thing the franchise and fans have long been chided about by other IPs (Dune, Trek, Babylon 5, Firefly).

For me I want to live in a universe, I don't want to experience the movies, I want to experience the life of the people outside of the movies... I just want to exist and socialize, that's what an MMO is all about. If it was just about what you say, then why not just make a single player RPG? It would have been a lot better as one..

Iselin

It sounds petty but do you know what annoyed me the most about SWTOR? It was all those beautifully drawn but inaccessible places that are part of every map. They went full on Mass Effect with their world building.

Although that might work in a single player game (although I much prefer open worlds even there) it made the SWTOR world feel just too cramped and too on rails for an MMO.

I certainly did not want tedious un-fun sandboxy activities in it. A fan of moisture farming and similar boring activities in MMOs I'm not. But i do want a certain amount of credibility to the world spaces and I found the SWTOR system just way too fake and confining.

I enjoyed a lot of it: the classes, the awesome Sith Sorcerer story line with all its twists, the companion system... but I always found the confined world a downer. I felt like all those places I couldn't go to were just taunting me

Dibdabs

It felt like such a bland game - it lacked any shred of the excitement and humour of the films.

Eldurian

Dibdabs said:

It felt like such a bland game - it lacked any shred of the excitement and humour of the films.

The smuggler storyline could get pretty witty at times depending on the choices you made. But yeah all of the all-class content was boring. There was just not as much wit and humor in the majority of the storylines.

Iselin

Gorwe said:

Iselin said:

It sounds petty but do you know what annoyed me the most about SWTOR? It was all those beautifully drawn but inaccessible places that are part of every map. They went full on Mass Effect with their world building.

Although that might work in a single player game (although I much prefer open worlds even there) it made the SWTOR world feel just too cramped and too on rails for an MMO.

I certainly did not want tedious un-fun sandboxy activities in it. A fan of moisture farming and similar boring activities in MMOs I'm not. But i do want a certain amount of credibility to the world spaces and I found the SWTOR system just way too fake and confining.

I enjoyed a lot of it: the classes, the awesome Sith Sorcerer story line with all its twists, the companion system... but I always found the confined world a downer. I felt like all those places I couldn't go to were just taunting me

...huh? You enjoyed the Inquisitor? Why if I may ask? And how did you play it?

I played it well

But seriously, way back when I first went through it I thought the class story had some nice surprise twists some of which led to unexpected comedy. I was also a light side Sith.

StoneRoses

Last time I checked the game is still going.

Theocritus

The game felt like a solo experience from day 1...Sure there were other people around, but it really didnt matter...The game focused too much on the story and too little on the world...It is the prototype of what many of us complain about in MMOs; It isnt really a MMORPG......It could have been a much better game.....Games like this and TSW are total fails to me.

BruceYee

I liked going down the sex route in all the cut scene choices I had only to be greatly let down when I never got to actually see anything happen.