Microsoft unveils its own motion controllers for Windows 10 VR

Mikeha

The controllers are coming "this holiday," and will come packed in with Acer's headset for $399.

Announced at Microsoft's Build developer conference, the motion controllers will work without external tracking sensors, offering "precise and responsive tracking of movement in your field of view using the sensors in your headset," according to Terry Myerson, executive vice president of Microsoft's Windows and Devices Group.

https://www.cnet.com/au/news/microsoft-making-its-own-motion-controllers-with-windows-10-vr-mixed-reality-acer/

SEANMCAD

They follow the lead rather well

maskedweasel

SEANMCAD said:

They follow the lead rather well

On the contrary, Microsofts sets are solely based around no external sensors of any kind, doing what no other headsets and controls do currently at price points much lower than anything of comparable standards.

But the real focus is that the reason they can do this, is because they've developed much of the technology for Hololens, and they've allowed several manufacturers to utilize their development achievements to bring down costs of these sets.

Acer isn't the only one with a set like this releasing within the next year.. Dell has one, Lenovo, HP.. each of them will have a set that Microsoft partnered with, which will bring costs down exponentially -- likely work on the XB1,  and all of them.. yes ALL of them, must meet certain standards that allow for AR.

They did what Oculus and Vive couldn't.

So no, they didn't follow the lead,  they took the lead and ran with it.  It's part of their upcoming push for a Hololens Consumer release in winter of 2018.

SEANMCAD

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

They follow the lead rather well

On the contrary, Microsofts sets are solely based around no external sensors of any kind, doing what no other headsets and controls do currently at price points much lower than anything of comparable standards.

But the real focus is that the reason they can do this, is because they've developed much of the technology for Hololens, and they've allowed several manufacturers to utilize their development achievements to bring down costs of these sets.

Acer isn't the only one with a set like this releasing within the next year.. Dell has one, Lenovo, HP.. each of them will have a set that Microsoft partnered with, which will bring costs down exponentially -- likely work on the XB1,  and all of them.. yes ALL of them, must meet certain standards that allow for AR.

They did what Oculus and Vive couldn't.

So no, they didn't follow the lead,  they took the lead and ran with it.  It's part of their upcoming push for a Hololens Consumer release in winter of 2018.

yes that would be called following as I said.

if it was an exact copy (which I am sure they wish they could do) then there would be more legal concerns.

maskedweasel

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

They follow the lead rather well

On the contrary, Microsofts sets are solely based around no external sensors of any kind, doing what no other headsets and controls do currently at price points much lower than anything of comparable standards.

But the real focus is that the reason they can do this, is because they've developed much of the technology for Hololens, and they've allowed several manufacturers to utilize their development achievements to bring down costs of these sets.

Acer isn't the only one with a set like this releasing within the next year.. Dell has one, Lenovo, HP.. each of them will have a set that Microsoft partnered with, which will bring costs down exponentially -- likely work on the XB1,  and all of them.. yes ALL of them, must meet certain standards that allow for AR.

They did what Oculus and Vive couldn't.

So no, they didn't follow the lead,  they took the lead and ran with it.  It's part of their upcoming push for a Hololens Consumer release in winter of 2018.

yes that would be called following as I said.

if it was an exact copy (which I am sure they wish they could do) then there would be more legal concerns.

 No, after this year, you will never see these terrible room scale nonsense sets any longer.  Every single set will follow microsofts design. Those are the facts. Thats how you become an industry leader.

gervaise1

Whose lead?

MS released the first Kinect in 2010 and were wqrking on it for some years before that. Nintendo's lead from the 90s perhaps?

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

SEANMCAD

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

They follow the lead rather well

On the contrary, Microsofts sets are solely based around no external sensors of any kind, doing what no other headsets and controls do currently at price points much lower than anything of comparable standards.

But the real focus is that the reason they can do this, is because they've developed much of the technology for Hololens, and they've allowed several manufacturers to utilize their development achievements to bring down costs of these sets.

Acer isn't the only one with a set like this releasing within the next year.. Dell has one, Lenovo, HP.. each of them will have a set that Microsoft partnered with, which will bring costs down exponentially -- likely work on the XB1,  and all of them.. yes ALL of them, must meet certain standards that allow for AR.

They did what Oculus and Vive couldn't.

So no, they didn't follow the lead,  they took the lead and ran with it.  It's part of their upcoming push for a Hololens Consumer release in winter of 2018.

yes that would be called following as I said.

if it was an exact copy (which I am sure they wish they could do) then there would be more legal concerns.

 No, after this year, you will never see these terrible room scale nonsense sets any longer.  Every single set will follow microsofts design. Those are the facts. Thats how you become an industry leader.

as I said, the follow very well.

I will say I do get a kick out of how everyone who said VR itself is doomed is now all excited about it....make me laugh

gervaise1

@seanmcad

Not sure whether you have seen this http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/NeilSchneider/20170508/297565/Latest_VR_Market_Data_Lets_Get_Our_Mojo_Back.php


Its an opinion but (imo) its grounded and asks some searching questions.

SEANMCAD

gervaise1 said:

@seanmcad

Not sure whether you have seen this http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/NeilSchneider/20170508/297565/Latest_VR_Market_Data_Lets_Get_Our_Mojo_Back.php


Its an opinion but (imo) its grounded and asks some searching questions.

which clearly is why Microsoft is getting into the market now and why all the naysayers are excited about it.

jdnewell

I hope these work with the scorpio.

I plan on buying a new 4k TV and a Scorpio when its released around the holidays. Hopefully will be a good time to get into some VR. The price point for PC VR is steeper than I currently want to pay for whats being offered.  
If its supported and developed for the scorpio I will give it a try, if not then I will continue to wait for the PC gear to get cheaper.

Asm0deus

Good news I guess for VR though I must say that most likely will require w10 when the majority are still on 7 lol

SEANMCAD

Asm0deus said:

Good news I guess for VR though I must say that most likely will require w10 when the majority are still on 7 lol

ah yes...of course..it obvious given track records like Windows 10 Phones and the Zune and from all the information we know about MS VR that MS will clearly be the best solution for VR ..

maskedweasel

SEANMCAD said:

gervaise1 said:

@seanmcad

Not sure whether you have seen this http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/NeilSchneider/20170508/297565/Latest_VR_Market_Data_Lets_Get_Our_Mojo_Back.php


Its an opinion but (imo) its grounded and asks some searching questions.

which clearly is why Microsoft is getting into the market now and why all the naysayers are excited about it.

You misunderstand Microsofts direction if you think the reason these sets are releasing have anything to do with growth in the VR industry.

You could learn a lot by paying attention to Microsofts direction as a whole.  Creating a VR set is a prelude to their Hololens release.  The technology they are using for these sets had nothing to do with creating a VR set, it was as simple as modifying their current project, and partnering with hardware manufacturers.  It's simply capitalizing on existing R&D.  They make money on every headset sold but they aren't the manufacturers. 

That's why
1) They have specific minimum hardware requirements for it to work manufacturers must meet
2) They released Windows Creators Edition
3) All devices must be AR capable
4) They were able to announce and release "VR style headsets"  in such a short amount of time, halving the time of any other non-mobile HMD maker on the market

They already had something that was better than what was on the market that could do VR better and cheaper. because Hololens can do Mixed Reality extremely well.  It didn't cost them anything extra to partner with manufacturers.  

SEANMCAD

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

gervaise1 said:

@seanmcad

Not sure whether you have seen this http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/NeilSchneider/20170508/297565/Latest_VR_Market_Data_Lets_Get_Our_Mojo_Back.php


Its an opinion but (imo) its grounded and asks some searching questions.

which clearly is why Microsoft is getting into the market now and why all the naysayers are excited about it.

You misunderstand Microsofts direction if you think the reason these sets are releasing have anything to do with growth in the VR industry.

You could learn a lot by paying attention to Microsofts direction as a whole.  Creating a VR set is a prelude to their Hololens release.  The technology they are using for these sets had nothing to do with creating a VR set, it was as simple as modifying their current project, and partnering with hardware manufacturers.  It's simply capitalizing on existing R&D.  They make money on every headset sold but they aren't the manufacturers. 

That's why
1) They have specific minimum hardware requirements for it to work manufacturers must meet
2) They released Windows Creators Edition
3) All devices must be AR capable
4) They were able to announce and release "VR style headsets"  in such a short amount of time, halving the time of any other non-mobile HMD maker on the market

They already had something that was better than what was on the market that could do VR better and cheaper. because Hololens can do Mixed Reality extremely well.  It didn't cost them anything extra to partner with manufacturers.  

I can not correlate what you are saying with what I just said.

I was being sarcastic when I say its interesting how all the people who liked to pew pew VR every day possible are now (because of MS) excited about VR before we even know much about the device itself.

Regarding Hololense. I have seen that in action in real time, its some grade A piece of shit on a stick.

for sure!

maskedweasel

SEANMCAD said:

I can not correlate what you are saying with what I just said.

I was being sarcastic when I say its interesting how all the people who liked to pew pew VR every day possible are now (because of MS) excited about VR before we even know much about the device itself.

Regarding Hololense. I have seen that in action in real time, its some grade A piece of shit on a stick.

for sure!

All you have to do is search for the requirements of the headsets.  Both HP and Acer released their specs... I'm pretty sure we know more than we knew before you payed triple for an Oculus Rift.

And no.. you've never tried a hololens, and no it isn't.  

SEANMCAD

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

I can not correlate what you are saying with what I just said.

I was being sarcastic when I say its interesting how all the people who liked to pew pew VR every day possible are now (because of MS) excited about VR before we even know much about the device itself.

Regarding Hololense. I have seen that in action in real time, its some grade A piece of shit on a stick.

for sure!

All you have to do is search for the requirements of the headsets.  Both HP and Acer released their specs... I'm pretty sure we know more than we knew before you payed triple for an Oculus Rift.

And no.. you've never tried a hololens, and no it isn't.  

no that would be incorrect.

we dont have enough experience as consumers to know if 100dpi or 200dpi is going to be better because of other factors like latency.

no...you need to actually use it in this case

SEANMCAD

Torval said:

gervaise1 said:

@seanmcad

Not sure whether you have seen this http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/NeilSchneider/20170508/297565/Latest_VR_Market_Data_Lets_Get_Our_Mojo_Back.php


Its an opinion but (imo) its grounded and asks some searching questions.

That was an amazing read. I think he hit many nails squarely even down to figuring out what the next steps should be right up until he got to "Immersed-con". Not that it's a bad thing, but it's still selling it to the wrong people.

The people he wants to target don't go to cons. They go to "Hot August Nights" and to winery tours and Disney World and 6 Flags. And until the industry can show them something other than a gimmick demo, it needs to connect and matter to them, it will still be just another nifty themepark ride like 3D and IMAX. Cool stuff. Awesome stuff. I first saw laser Floyd on an IMAX screen at the Seattle Center in the 80's. But it's still an amusement park gimimick, not every day tech I buy for the home. I'm not sure how to make that leap, but it's in that area I'm sure.

not a clue what your talking about but I will say if you are trying to elude to AR I could not disagree more.
AR can be a great tool but as an 'experience platform' its a piece of shit.

But I take it from what your saying you think going to the movies is a fad?

SEANMCAD

Torval said:

I'm not alluding to anything. AR, VR, and dogmatic paradigm concepts are part of the problem described in the article @gervaise1 linked. If you've not taken the time to read it, I think it's worth the ten minutes to read and digest his perspective.

EDIT: (delete)

Asm0deus

SEANMCAD said:

Asm0deus said:

Good news I guess for VR though I must say that most likely will require w10 when the majority are still on 7 lol

ah yes...of course..it obvious given track records like Windows 10 Phones and the Zune and from all the information we know about MS VR that MS will clearly be the best solution for VR ..

Not sure what point you're trying to get across here but if it's the one I think you're implying then you're misunderstanding my post.

gervaise1

SEANMCAD said:

gervaise1 said:

@seanmcad

Not sure whether you have seen this http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/NeilSchneider/20170508/297565/Latest_VR_Market_Data_Lets_Get_Our_Mojo_Back.php

Its an opinion but (imo) its grounded and asks some searching questions.

which clearly is why Microsoft is getting into the market now and why all the naysayers are excited about it.

Nah!

The article is about why VR is NOT a thing now; whether VR will be a thing "soon" / what is needed (the author is an advocate). Thought it was an interesting read as it mirrors some previous threads and worth a share. (Edit: Obviously it was having read other posts above). 


As for MS they have been pursuing a strategy for years - including various "whole room" patents (for want of a better term) for years. Will they be successful? Don't know. Sure they have had failures but also many successes.

BTW my opinion on VR - sadly - hasn't changed.

zanfire

i would love to try these, especially that the price is now reasonable for people like some of my friends. My big issues are:

1) They have a lower FoV which sucks
2) They use LCD panels instead of Oled which may or may not be an issue or just worse
3)Though the inside out tracking is a great idea, wont that not be able to track outside of your view? That means wouldnt work with a bunch of things out there
4)Probably the biggest problem is will it work with the building steam library or will it even use that or will it be locked to a new ecosystem for MS?

I hope they are good, but i think those possible issues i listed will make them feel inferior.

Cleffy

This isn't really like the XBox, Zune or Windows Phone. The market isn't there yet. You could say they are taking a niche product and making it mainstream. However, they will probably once again be the stepping stone for a different company to capture the market. Microsoft has been early on a lot of things. It's just that the market typically doesn't buy into them. There is a general negative stigma with Microsoft that they have to overcome when entering any market. Often times they will fail to overcome it. They were before Apple with the Tablet and Smartphone. They just didn't bring forward a product people wanted to buy.

Phaserlight

Torval said:

gervaise1 said:

@seanmcad

Not sure whether you have seen this http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/NeilSchneider/20170508/297565/Latest_VR_Market_Data_Lets_Get_Our_Mojo_Back.php


Its an opinion but (imo) its grounded and asks some searching questions.

That was an amazing read. I think he hit many nails squarely even down to figuring out what the next steps should be right up until he got to "Immersed-con". Not that it's a bad thing, but it's still selling it to the wrong people.

The people he wants to target don't go to cons. They go to "Hot August Nights" and to winery tours and Disney World and 6 Flags. And until the industry can show them something other than a gimmick demo, it needs to connect and matter to them, it will still be just another nifty themepark ride like 3D and IMAX. Cool stuff. Awesome stuff. I first saw laser Floyd on an IMAX screen at the Seattle Center in the 80's. But it's still an amusement park gimimick, not every day tech I buy for the home. I'm not sure how to make that leap, but it's in that area I'm sure.

Man, did we read the same article?

I saw a tongue-in-cheek, meme-peppered "here's what I think of the state of affairs" advertisement for this guy's startup, disguised as an op-ed.  He spends 1,500 words dancing around the question before launching into his dubious pitch, and his bias clearly shows because he doesn't even seem to have all the facts:

"we expected the total market sales would be capped at about 300,000 to 500,000 units give or take in the PC universe (HTC Vive, Oculus Rift, everything else PC).  Yes, there are mobile and console numbers too, but they all tell the same story in their own way."

Except that you're off by about an order of magnitude or so in terms of the mobile market, Mr. Schneider.  These numbers were public well before you wrote the article, but you just fail to bring up that little point since it doesn't fit your narrative, hmm?

I wonder if he's ever even strapped on a Gear VR, or if he's assuming it must be so much worse than PC VR or console VR because... reasons.

"Reddit has the largest online VR communities that I know of.  These graphs highlight the subscription level of each VR Reddit community and when they hit certain membership milestones.  Remember that Reddit accounts last forever, so the numbers never go down."

Using subreddit subscriptions to prove sales numbers.  Party foul.  The Vive subreddit has ~3x as many subscribers as the Gear VR subreddit, and yet the Gear VR has sold 10x as many units as Vive if you take Samsung's statement at face value, which has a little more credibility than subreddit subscription numbers.  What's your confidence interval on those projections, Mr. Schneider?

"There is other data too; it all works out the same way."

...but apparently you couldn't be bothered to cite this in your article?

"Are we crazy to think that people will wear an electric Kleenex box on their face?  Maybe in public...or on a bus"

Okay, so we're just going to discount all those anecdotes about public transportation being a very good use-case for VR?  Right, because all mobile VR solutions = "electric Kleenex box".  Again, why do I get the feeling this author has never actually strapped on a Gear VR?

"As demonstrated in the above graphs, we are tapped out; we haven't been doing nearly enough to appeal to a new customer base - just ourselves.  We need more than a flying osterich to save the day."

The only numerical graphs you've shown are subreddit subscription numbers, and I liked the ostrich commercial.

"What we need is a solution that is 180 degrees apart from the current norm of VR marketing.  It has to be a story-driven solution that will directly appeal and connect with consumers, and it has to reawaken the media interest in virtual reality and immersive technology."

Of course, that's what we need: clever marketing.

This guy is ignoring the fact that you can't show people a slick commercial and expect them to "get" it.  Videos are just not a good way to convey the experience of what VR is like.  I agree that VR needs narrative, but I'm not convinced that Mr. Schneider's proprietary Immersed-Con is the way to do this.  I just can't take someone who drops 9 memes in a 3,800 word convention ad disguised as an op ed with two numerical graphs citing subreddit subscriptions as evidence seriously.  That stated, I'm sure his PC-Master-Race-Ish "just ourselves" he writes about will receive him warmly there and I wish him well.

SEANMCAD

Cleffy said:

This isn't really like the XBox, Zune or Windows Phone. The market isn't there yet. You could say they are taking a niche product and making it mainstream. However, they will probably once again be the stepping stone for a different company to capture the market. Microsoft has been early on a lot of things. It's just that the market typically doesn't buy into them. There is a general negative stigma with Microsoft that they have to overcome when entering any market. Often times they will fail to overcome it. They were before Apple with the Tablet and Smartphone. They just didn't bring forward a product people wanted to buy.

The parallel is not the technology, the parallel being drawn is that 2 of the three products you listed by most accounts has been a total failure.
Being overly optimistic about a device that 1. isnt out yet 2.made by a company that has a lot of recent failures in the consumer market 3. is in an industry (VR) that not just 10 months ago the majority of MMORPG posters thought was a joke. might lead wise people who maybe calm the fuck down 

SEANMCAD

gervaise1 said:

SEANMCAD said:

gervaise1 said:

@seanmcad

Not sure whether you have seen this http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/NeilSchneider/20170508/297565/Latest_VR_Market_Data_Lets_Get_Our_Mojo_Back.php

Its an opinion but (imo) its grounded and asks some searching questions.

which clearly is why Microsoft is getting into the market now and why all the naysayers are excited about it.

.... Sure they have had failures but also many successes.....

.

actually in the past 15 years or so I think its fair to say that in the consumer market they have had more failures then successes