Only True Virtual Reality Can Fulfill the Promise of MMORPGs

Consuetudo

My cries of "these games are not immersive enough" are always met with retorts of "you are the problem, your memories are wrong: you were never immersed in an MMORPG, they have never been designed to be immersive, these are all lies you tell yourself." 

Well, I hate to burst the bubble of these revisionists, but, on the contrary, I was immersed before and that is what is so utterly lacking now. 

Let us concede that perhaps I have changed, and now require more than I did before (that it is apparently impossible to develop an immersive MMORPG that will live up to what must be my extremely demanding requirements). 

It seems the only solution is true virtual reality. If the MMORPG really is such a stale, limited genre to the extent that linear WoW-clones revolving around combat, the trinity, gear farming etc is all we will ever get forever after, then assuredly only true virtual reality can replicate what I felt before while roaming around the Barrens or Ashenvale a decade ago. 

For that seems to be the only way to become immersed. The MMO genre has devolved into a nest of cliches and recycled ideas. Immersion has left through the backdoor. The promise that I perceived to be present is no more, only the empty dream of a naive yet embittered veteran. 

Perhaps someday my longing for a living, breathing, virtual world will be brought to life once more, though I would be sad if that day will only come in the future when I literally & sensually perceive myself to actually be present in a virtual world thanks to true VR technology. 

Sovrath

I always thought, read, "heard" that mmorpg's were virtual worlds. Whenever Everquest would be on the news they would refer to it as a "virtual world".

Well, imagine my surprise when I started playing these games and found out "not so much".

My first was Lineage 2 and it was "sort of" virtual world. But then I played Lord of the Rings Online and Aion and the whole themepark thing was reving up and I can say that kept waiting for the world but never came.

Can't wait for Virtual Reality Skyrim

Consuetudo

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Anyone owning a VR headset knows that this is just not true.
Being able to turn your head and look behind your back isn't magically providing full immersion into a MMORPG. And VR won't magically remove gear farming which developers use as a method to keep subscribers/customers addicted. Right now you're farming mashing a couple of keys. Then you'll be farming swinging your arms around to hit mobs with your sword. Are you sure it's really that different at the end?

That isn't good enough. I'm talking virtual reality so immersive that you literally feel you are there, so immersive, perhaps, that you can smell the flowers and feel the pain of being hit. 

Consuetudo

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Anyone owning a VR headset knows that this is just not true.
Being able to turn your head and look behind your back isn't magically providing full immersion into a MMORPG. And VR won't magically remove gear farming which developers use as a method to keep subscribers/customers addicted. Right now you're farming mashing a couple of keys. Then you'll be farming swinging your arms around to hit mobs with your sword. Are you sure it's really that different at the end?

That isn't good enough. I'm talking virtual reality so immersive that you literally feel you are there, so immersive, perhaps, that you can smell the flowers and feel the pain of being hit. 

I don't know how old you are, and I won't ask, but I somehow doubt this happens during your actual lifespan... at least not on individual level, playable at home.
Let's hope I'm wrong though, I'd love to live that too
There's also the question of how much you would enjoy enduring the pain of being hit by a sword or a mace...
Maybe you watched too many "Matrix" movies

At this point I just want some degree of immersion. 

If anything, this whole thread is ironic hyperbole. I don't think it would take true VR tech in order to achieve immersion. Contrary to what the revisionists like to claim, I believe it is entirely possible to produce an MMORPG that is immersive and that the problem is not mine but game designers who are producing crappy games. 

SEANMCAD

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Anyone owning a VR headset knows that this is just not true.
Being able to turn your head and look behind your back isn't magically providing full immersion into a MMORPG. And VR won't magically remove gear farming which developers use as a method to keep subscribers/customers addicted. Right now you're farming mashing a couple of keys. Then you'll be farming swinging your arms around to hit mobs with your sword. Are you sure it's really that different at the end?

That isn't good enough. I'm talking virtual reality so immersive that you literally feel you are there, so immersive, perhaps, that you can smell the flowers and feel the pain of being hit. 

I don't know how old you are, and I won't ask, but I somehow doubt this happens during your actual lifespan... at least not on individual level, playable at home.
Let's hope I'm wrong though, I'd love to live that too
There's also the question of how much you would enjoy enduring the pain of being hit by a sword or a mace...
Maybe you watched too many "Matrix" movies

At this point I just want some degree of immersion. ... 

First thing I think of when I read that first line is....'then why do so many people want to play in 3rd person'. 3rd person takes a huge amount away from immersion. that alone can make a huge difference

Consuetudo

SEANMCAD said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Anyone owning a VR headset knows that this is just not true.
Being able to turn your head and look behind your back isn't magically providing full immersion into a MMORPG. And VR won't magically remove gear farming which developers use as a method to keep subscribers/customers addicted. Right now you're farming mashing a couple of keys. Then you'll be farming swinging your arms around to hit mobs with your sword. Are you sure it's really that different at the end?

That isn't good enough. I'm talking virtual reality so immersive that you literally feel you are there, so immersive, perhaps, that you can smell the flowers and feel the pain of being hit. 

I don't know how old you are, and I won't ask, but I somehow doubt this happens during your actual lifespan... at least not on individual level, playable at home.
Let's hope I'm wrong though, I'd love to live that too
There's also the question of how much you would enjoy enduring the pain of being hit by a sword or a mace...
Maybe you watched too many "Matrix" movies

At this point I just want some degree of immersion. ... 

First thing I think of when I read that first line is....'then why do so many people want to play in 3rd person'. 3rd person takes a huge amount away from immersion. that alone can make a huge difference

We do not have true first person. The combat system of Elder Scrolls for example is atrocious. First person as it is presented in MMOs thus far is lackluster. FPS games achieve some meaningful degree of immersion, but I have never felt immersed playing first person in an RPG or MMO. 

SEANMCAD

Consuetudo said:

SEANMCAD said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Anyone owning a VR headset knows that this is just not true.
Being able to turn your head and look behind your back isn't magically providing full immersion into a MMORPG. And VR won't magically remove gear farming which developers use as a method to keep subscribers/customers addicted. Right now you're farming mashing a couple of keys. Then you'll be farming swinging your arms around to hit mobs with your sword. Are you sure it's really that different at the end?

That isn't good enough. I'm talking virtual reality so immersive that you literally feel you are there, so immersive, perhaps, that you can smell the flowers and feel the pain of being hit. 

I don't know how old you are, and I won't ask, but I somehow doubt this happens during your actual lifespan... at least not on individual level, playable at home.
Let's hope I'm wrong though, I'd love to live that too
There's also the question of how much you would enjoy enduring the pain of being hit by a sword or a mace...
Maybe you watched too many "Matrix" movies

At this point I just want some degree of immersion. ... 

First thing I think of when I read that first line is....'then why do so many people want to play in 3rd person'. 3rd person takes a huge amount away from immersion. that alone can make a huge difference

We do not have true first person. The combat system of Elder Scrolls for example is atrocious. First person as it is presented in MMOs thus far is lackluster. FPS games achieve some meaningful degree of immersion, but I have never felt immersed playing first person in an RPG or MMO. 

'true' doesnt matter, its a matter of degree.

On a scale of immersion (100 being most) its like this
1. 3rd person view -100
2. First person View 10
3. VR 100

For those who want an 'immersive' experience and yet in the same breath want 3rd person view in their games are on crack.

Consuetudo

SEANMCAD said:

Consuetudo said:

SEANMCAD said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Anyone owning a VR headset knows that this is just not true.
Being able to turn your head and look behind your back isn't magically providing full immersion into a MMORPG. And VR won't magically remove gear farming which developers use as a method to keep subscribers/customers addicted. Right now you're farming mashing a couple of keys. Then you'll be farming swinging your arms around to hit mobs with your sword. Are you sure it's really that different at the end?

That isn't good enough. I'm talking virtual reality so immersive that you literally feel you are there, so immersive, perhaps, that you can smell the flowers and feel the pain of being hit. 

I don't know how old you are, and I won't ask, but I somehow doubt this happens during your actual lifespan... at least not on individual level, playable at home.
Let's hope I'm wrong though, I'd love to live that too
There's also the question of how much you would enjoy enduring the pain of being hit by a sword or a mace...
Maybe you watched too many "Matrix" movies

At this point I just want some degree of immersion. ... 

First thing I think of when I read that first line is....'then why do so many people want to play in 3rd person'. 3rd person takes a huge amount away from immersion. that alone can make a huge difference

We do not have true first person. The combat system of Elder Scrolls for example is atrocious. First person as it is presented in MMOs thus far is lackluster. FPS games achieve some meaningful degree of immersion, but I have never felt immersed playing first person in an RPG or MMO. 

'true' doesnt matter, its a matter of degree.

On a scale of immersion (100 being most) its like this
1. 3rd person view -100
2. First person View 10
3. VR 100

For those who want an 'immersive' experience and yet in the same breath want 3rd person view in their games are on crack.

I simply don't agree with you. I feel immersed in third person games and first person games. I don't think view has anything to do with it for me, and I cannot be wrong. 

I would never play WoW in first person. It looks silly. It's not optimized for such play.

SEANMCAD

Consuetudo said:

SEANMCAD said:

Consuetudo said:

SEANMCAD said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Anyone owning a VR headset knows that this is just not true.
Being able to turn your head and look behind your back isn't magically providing full immersion into a MMORPG. And VR won't magically remove gear farming which developers use as a method to keep subscribers/customers addicted. Right now you're farming mashing a couple of keys. Then you'll be farming swinging your arms around to hit mobs with your sword. Are you sure it's really that different at the end?

That isn't good enough. I'm talking virtual reality so immersive that you literally feel you are there, so immersive, perhaps, that you can smell the flowers and feel the pain of being hit. 

I don't know how old you are, and I won't ask, but I somehow doubt this happens during your actual lifespan... at least not on individual level, playable at home.
Let's hope I'm wrong though, I'd love to live that too
There's also the question of how much you would enjoy enduring the pain of being hit by a sword or a mace...
Maybe you watched too many "Matrix" movies

At this point I just want some degree of immersion. ... 

First thing I think of when I read that first line is....'then why do so many people want to play in 3rd person'. 3rd person takes a huge amount away from immersion. that alone can make a huge difference

We do not have true first person. The combat system of Elder Scrolls for example is atrocious. First person as it is presented in MMOs thus far is lackluster. FPS games achieve some meaningful degree of immersion, but I have never felt immersed playing first person in an RPG or MMO. 

'true' doesnt matter, its a matter of degree.

On a scale of immersion (100 being most) its like this
1. 3rd person view -100
2. First person View 10
3. VR 100

For those who want an 'immersive' experience and yet in the same breath want 3rd person view in their games are on crack.

I simply don't agree with you. I feel immersed in third person games and first person games. I don't think view has anything to do with it for me, and I cannot be wrong. 

I would never play WoW in first person. It looks silly. It's not optimized for such play.

I know your wrong on that front.
its not even a matter of debate, just a fact but unfortunately I dont have the time or skill to explain the details. view perspective of your character does make a large impact on immersion

Kyleran

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Anyone owning a VR headset knows that this is just not true.
Being able to turn your head and look behind your back isn't magically providing full immersion into a MMORPG. And VR won't magically remove gear farming which developers use as a method to keep subscribers/customers addicted. Right now you're farming mashing a couple of keys. Then you'll be farming swinging your arms around to hit mobs with your sword. Are you sure it's really that different at the end?

That isn't good enough. I'm talking virtual reality so immersive that you literally feel you are there, so immersive, perhaps, that you can smell the flowers and feel the pain of being hit. 

I don't know how old you are, and I won't ask, but I somehow doubt this happens during your actual lifespan... at least not on individual level, playable at home.
Let's hope I'm wrong though, I'd love to live that too
There's also the question of how much you would enjoy enduring the pain of being hit by a sword or a mace...
Maybe you watched too many "Matrix" movies

Alas I am sure I won't live long enough to see the days of "jacking in" to live in a virtual world.

Unless of course some aliens come along and offer me a "blue pill"

waynejr2

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Anyone owning a VR headset knows that this is just not true.
Being able to turn your head and look behind your back isn't magically providing full immersion into a MMORPG. And VR won't magically remove gear farming which developers use as a method to keep subscribers/customers addicted. Right now you're farming mashing a couple of keys. Then you'll be farming swinging your arms around to hit mobs with your sword. Are you sure it's really that different at the end?

That isn't good enough. I'm talking virtual reality so immersive that you literally feel you are there, so immersive, perhaps, that you can smell the flowers and feel the pain of being hit. 

I don't know how old you are, and I won't ask, but I somehow doubt this happens during your actual lifespan... at least not on individual level, playable at home.
Let's hope I'm wrong though, I'd love to live that too
There's also the question of how much you would enjoy enduring the pain of being hit by a sword or a mace...
Maybe you watched too many "Matrix" movies

At this point I just want some degree of immersion. 

If anything, this whole thread is ironic hyperbole. I don't think it would take true VR tech in order to achieve immersion. Contrary to what the revisionists like to claim, I believe it is entirely possible to produce an MMORPG that is immersive and that the problem is not mine but game designers who are producing crappy games. 

Immersion is a choice you make. 

waynejr2

SEANMCAD said:

Consuetudo said:

SEANMCAD said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Anyone owning a VR headset knows that this is just not true.
Being able to turn your head and look behind your back isn't magically providing full immersion into a MMORPG. And VR won't magically remove gear farming which developers use as a method to keep subscribers/customers addicted. Right now you're farming mashing a couple of keys. Then you'll be farming swinging your arms around to hit mobs with your sword. Are you sure it's really that different at the end?

That isn't good enough. I'm talking virtual reality so immersive that you literally feel you are there, so immersive, perhaps, that you can smell the flowers and feel the pain of being hit. 

I don't know how old you are, and I won't ask, but I somehow doubt this happens during your actual lifespan... at least not on individual level, playable at home.
Let's hope I'm wrong though, I'd love to live that too
There's also the question of how much you would enjoy enduring the pain of being hit by a sword or a mace...
Maybe you watched too many "Matrix" movies

At this point I just want some degree of immersion. ... 

First thing I think of when I read that first line is....'then why do so many people want to play in 3rd person'. 3rd person takes a huge amount away from immersion. that alone can make a huge difference

We do not have true first person. The combat system of Elder Scrolls for example is atrocious. First person as it is presented in MMOs thus far is lackluster. FPS games achieve some meaningful degree of immersion, but I have never felt immersed playing first person in an RPG or MMO. 

'true' doesnt matter, its a matter of degree.

On a scale of immersion (100 being most) its like this
1. 3rd person view -100
2. First person View 10
3. VR 100

For those who want an 'immersive' experience and yet in the same breath want 3rd person view in their games are on crack.

He uses "true" in a way that poops on anything other that what he wants/means.

SEANMCAD

waynejr2 said:

SEANMCAD said:

Consuetudo said:

SEANMCAD said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Anyone owning a VR headset knows that this is just not true.
Being able to turn your head and look behind your back isn't magically providing full immersion into a MMORPG. And VR won't magically remove gear farming which developers use as a method to keep subscribers/customers addicted. Right now you're farming mashing a couple of keys. Then you'll be farming swinging your arms around to hit mobs with your sword. Are you sure it's really that different at the end?

That isn't good enough. I'm talking virtual reality so immersive that you literally feel you are there, so immersive, perhaps, that you can smell the flowers and feel the pain of being hit. 

I don't know how old you are, and I won't ask, but I somehow doubt this happens during your actual lifespan... at least not on individual level, playable at home.
Let's hope I'm wrong though, I'd love to live that too
There's also the question of how much you would enjoy enduring the pain of being hit by a sword or a mace...
Maybe you watched too many "Matrix" movies

At this point I just want some degree of immersion. ... 

First thing I think of when I read that first line is....'then why do so many people want to play in 3rd person'. 3rd person takes a huge amount away from immersion. that alone can make a huge difference

We do not have true first person. The combat system of Elder Scrolls for example is atrocious. First person as it is presented in MMOs thus far is lackluster. FPS games achieve some meaningful degree of immersion, but I have never felt immersed playing first person in an RPG or MMO. 

'true' doesnt matter, its a matter of degree.

On a scale of immersion (100 being most) its like this
1. 3rd person view -100
2. First person View 10
3. VR 100

For those who want an 'immersive' experience and yet in the same breath want 3rd person view in their games are on crack.

He uses "true" in a way that poops on anything other that what he wants/means.

I have noticed many people struggle with the concept of a sliding scale

Consuetudo

waynejr2 said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Anyone owning a VR headset knows that this is just not true.
Being able to turn your head and look behind your back isn't magically providing full immersion into a MMORPG. And VR won't magically remove gear farming which developers use as a method to keep subscribers/customers addicted. Right now you're farming mashing a couple of keys. Then you'll be farming swinging your arms around to hit mobs with your sword. Are you sure it's really that different at the end?

That isn't good enough. I'm talking virtual reality so immersive that you literally feel you are there, so immersive, perhaps, that you can smell the flowers and feel the pain of being hit. 

I don't know how old you are, and I won't ask, but I somehow doubt this happens during your actual lifespan... at least not on individual level, playable at home.
Let's hope I'm wrong though, I'd love to live that too
There's also the question of how much you would enjoy enduring the pain of being hit by a sword or a mace...
Maybe you watched too many "Matrix" movies

At this point I just want some degree of immersion. 

If anything, this whole thread is ironic hyperbole. I don't think it would take true VR tech in order to achieve immersion. Contrary to what the revisionists like to claim, I believe it is entirely possible to produce an MMORPG that is immersive and that the problem is not mine but game designers who are producing crappy games. 

Immersion is a choice you make. 

A sentence that means nothing.

Consuetudo

waynejr2 said:

SEANMCAD said:

Consuetudo said:

SEANMCAD said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Anyone owning a VR headset knows that this is just not true.
Being able to turn your head and look behind your back isn't magically providing full immersion into a MMORPG. And VR won't magically remove gear farming which developers use as a method to keep subscribers/customers addicted. Right now you're farming mashing a couple of keys. Then you'll be farming swinging your arms around to hit mobs with your sword. Are you sure it's really that different at the end?

That isn't good enough. I'm talking virtual reality so immersive that you literally feel you are there, so immersive, perhaps, that you can smell the flowers and feel the pain of being hit. 

I don't know how old you are, and I won't ask, but I somehow doubt this happens during your actual lifespan... at least not on individual level, playable at home.
Let's hope I'm wrong though, I'd love to live that too
There's also the question of how much you would enjoy enduring the pain of being hit by a sword or a mace...
Maybe you watched too many "Matrix" movies

At this point I just want some degree of immersion. ... 

First thing I think of when I read that first line is....'then why do so many people want to play in 3rd person'. 3rd person takes a huge amount away from immersion. that alone can make a huge difference

We do not have true first person. The combat system of Elder Scrolls for example is atrocious. First person as it is presented in MMOs thus far is lackluster. FPS games achieve some meaningful degree of immersion, but I have never felt immersed playing first person in an RPG or MMO. 

'true' doesnt matter, its a matter of degree.

On a scale of immersion (100 being most) its like this
1. 3rd person view -100
2. First person View 10
3. VR 100

For those who want an 'immersive' experience and yet in the same breath want 3rd person view in their games are on crack.

He uses "true" in a way that poops on anything other that what he wants/means.

True first person would be first person view optimized for first person view and presented in such a way that does not encumber you with the kind of restrictions that are not at all present with how humans actually perceive the world. 

SEANMCAD

Consuetudo said:

waynejr2 said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Anyone owning a VR headset knows that this is just not true.
Being able to turn your head and look behind your back isn't magically providing full immersion into a MMORPG. And VR won't magically remove gear farming which developers use as a method to keep subscribers/customers addicted. Right now you're farming mashing a couple of keys. Then you'll be farming swinging your arms around to hit mobs with your sword. Are you sure it's really that different at the end?

That isn't good enough. I'm talking virtual reality so immersive that you literally feel you are there, so immersive, perhaps, that you can smell the flowers and feel the pain of being hit. 

I don't know how old you are, and I won't ask, but I somehow doubt this happens during your actual lifespan... at least not on individual level, playable at home.
Let's hope I'm wrong though, I'd love to live that too
There's also the question of how much you would enjoy enduring the pain of being hit by a sword or a mace...
Maybe you watched too many "Matrix" movies

At this point I just want some degree of immersion. 

If anything, this whole thread is ironic hyperbole. I don't think it would take true VR tech in order to achieve immersion. Contrary to what the revisionists like to claim, I believe it is entirely possible to produce an MMORPG that is immersive and that the problem is not mine but game designers who are producing crappy games. 

Immersion is a choice you make. 

A sentence that means nothing.

its also not true.

yes...if I am in a prision cell getting hammered in the ...by a cell mate while a fight is going on outside it is in theory possible for me to put myself into a virtual world in my mind

but its easier using a VR headset

Phaserlight

waynejr2 said:

SEANMCAD said:

Consuetudo said:

SEANMCAD said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Anyone owning a VR headset knows that this is just not true.
Being able to turn your head and look behind your back isn't magically providing full immersion into a MMORPG. And VR won't magically remove gear farming which developers use as a method to keep subscribers/customers addicted. Right now you're farming mashing a couple of keys. Then you'll be farming swinging your arms around to hit mobs with your sword. Are you sure it's really that different at the end?

That isn't good enough. I'm talking virtual reality so immersive that you literally feel you are there, so immersive, perhaps, that you can smell the flowers and feel the pain of being hit. 

I don't know how old you are, and I won't ask, but I somehow doubt this happens during your actual lifespan... at least not on individual level, playable at home.
Let's hope I'm wrong though, I'd love to live that too
There's also the question of how much you would enjoy enduring the pain of being hit by a sword or a mace...
Maybe you watched too many "Matrix" movies

At this point I just want some degree of immersion. ... 

First thing I think of when I read that first line is....'then why do so many people want to play in 3rd person'. 3rd person takes a huge amount away from immersion. that alone can make a huge difference

We do not have true first person. The combat system of Elder Scrolls for example is atrocious. First person as it is presented in MMOs thus far is lackluster. FPS games achieve some meaningful degree of immersion, but I have never felt immersed playing first person in an RPG or MMO. 

'true' doesnt matter, its a matter of degree.

On a scale of immersion (100 being most) its like this
1. 3rd person view -100
2. First person View 10
3. VR 100

For those who want an 'immersive' experience and yet in the same breath want 3rd person view in their games are on crack.

He uses "true" in a way that poops on anything other that what he wants/means.

BombSquad changed my opinion of 3rd-person VR.  I used to hold similar sentiments: that 3rd person VR experiences were wasted efforts on the part of the devs.  Sophomorically, this was prior to even owning a VR rig.

Here are some reasons that I think BombSquad works well as a 3rd person VR experience:

1) It's funny: I'd be less likely to laugh at being blown up by an oversize explosive in 1st person than in 3rd person

2) It's like being inside a theater, watching a live performance

3) There is a lot of chaotic action happening all at once: the static 3rd person viewpoint makes it easier to track things

Imagine playing Super Smash Brothers on the couch but instead of your friends/college roommates shouldering each other in real life, all that there is is the game world.  Rag doll physics allow one to be somewhat emotive with one's avatar.  It's kind of hard to explain until you've experienced it yourself, but the VR does add a lot and yes it's in 3rd person.

SEANMCAD

Phaserlight said:

waynejr2 said:

SEANMCAD said:

Consuetudo said:

SEANMCAD said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Consuetudo said:

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Anyone owning a VR headset knows that this is just not true.
Being able to turn your head and look behind your back isn't magically providing full immersion into a MMORPG. And VR won't magically remove gear farming which developers use as a method to keep subscribers/customers addicted. Right now you're farming mashing a couple of keys. Then you'll be farming swinging your arms around to hit mobs with your sword. Are you sure it's really that different at the end?

That isn't good enough. I'm talking virtual reality so immersive that you literally feel you are there, so immersive, perhaps, that you can smell the flowers and feel the pain of being hit. 

I don't know how old you are, and I won't ask, but I somehow doubt this happens during your actual lifespan... at least not on individual level, playable at home.
Let's hope I'm wrong though, I'd love to live that too
There's also the question of how much you would enjoy enduring the pain of being hit by a sword or a mace...
Maybe you watched too many "Matrix" movies

At this point I just want some degree of immersion. ... 

First thing I think of when I read that first line is....'then why do so many people want to play in 3rd person'. 3rd person takes a huge amount away from immersion. that alone can make a huge difference

We do not have true first person. The combat system of Elder Scrolls for example is atrocious. First person as it is presented in MMOs thus far is lackluster. FPS games achieve some meaningful degree of immersion, but I have never felt immersed playing first person in an RPG or MMO. 

'true' doesnt matter, its a matter of degree.

On a scale of immersion (100 being most) its like this
1. 3rd person view -100
2. First person View 10
3. VR 100

For those who want an 'immersive' experience and yet in the same breath want 3rd person view in their games are on crack.

He uses "true" in a way that poops on anything other that what he wants/means.

BombSquad changed my opinion of 3rd-person VR.  I used to hold similar sentiments: that 3rd person VR experiences were wasted efforts on the part of the devs.  Sophomorically, this was prior to even owning a VR rig.

Here are some reasons that I think BombSquad works well as a 3rd person VR experience:

1) It's funny: I'd be less likely to laugh at being blown up by an oversize explosive in 1st person than in 3rd person

2) It's like being inside a theater, watching a live performance

3) There is a lot of chaotic action happening all at once: the static 3rd person viewpoint makes it easier to track things

Imagine playing Super Smash Brothers on the couch but instead of your friends/college roommates shouldering each other in real life, all that there is is the game world.  Rag doll physics allow one to be somewhat emotive with one's avatar.  It's kind of hard to explain until you've experienced it yourself, but the VR does add a lot and yes it's in 3rd person.

3rd person view in VR is very compelling...but I would not call it immersive. unless the context of the immersion is you being a puppet owner.

I have had two VR experiences in 3rd person and yes its neat but immesive is not the word I would choice to use to described it

maskedweasel

The closest you'll get is Mixed Reality anytime soon.  Overlaying "virtual" scenery over actual real world features.  You'll be able to see and hear and smell everything, though you'd likely only be smelling the outdoors or wherever you're actually playing.  

Its pretty cool to see current MR devices read surroundings and turn them into geometric shapes to overlay textures, etc.  

Granted you'll only have as virtual a world as you'll be in.. but no  "true VR" isn't really something you're going to see anytime soon.

SEANMCAD

maskedweasel said:

The closest you'll get is Mixed Reality anytime soon.  Overlaying "virtual" scenery over actual real world features.  You'll be able to see and hear and smell everything, though you'd likely only be smelling the outdoors or wherever you're actually playing.  

Its pretty cool to see current MR devices read surroundings and turn them into geometric shapes to overlay textures, etc.  

Granted you'll only have as virtual a world as you'll be in.. but no  "true VR" isn't really something you're going to see anytime soon.

nothing more 'immersive' then seeing my washing machine while playing a MR game in which I am on a bridge of a starship!

maskedweasel

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

The closest you'll get is Mixed Reality anytime soon.  Overlaying "virtual" scenery over actual real world features.  You'll be able to see and hear and smell everything, though you'd likely only be smelling the outdoors or wherever you're actually playing.  

Its pretty cool to see current MR devices read surroundings and turn them into geometric shapes to overlay textures, etc.  

Granted you'll only have as virtual a world as you'll be in.. but no  "true VR" isn't really something you're going to see anytime soon.

nothing more 'immersive' then seeing my washing machine while playing a MR game in which I am on a bridge of a starship!

You won't see your washing machine.  That's the point of MR. 

SEANMCAD

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

The closest you'll get is Mixed Reality anytime soon.  Overlaying "virtual" scenery over actual real world features.  You'll be able to see and hear and smell everything, though you'd likely only be smelling the outdoors or wherever you're actually playing.  

Its pretty cool to see current MR devices read surroundings and turn them into geometric shapes to overlay textures, etc.  

Granted you'll only have as virtual a world as you'll be in.. but no  "true VR" isn't really something you're going to see anytime soon.

nothing more 'immersive' then seeing my washing machine while playing a MR game in which I am on a bridge of a starship!

You won't see your washing machine.  That's the point of MR. 

actually that is not at all 'the point' of MR. that would be 'the point' of VR not MR.

That said, 100% of your view space would not be filled with fictional reality, in VR it would.

maskedweasel

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

The closest you'll get is Mixed Reality anytime soon.  Overlaying "virtual" scenery over actual real world features.  You'll be able to see and hear and smell everything, though you'd likely only be smelling the outdoors or wherever you're actually playing.  

Its pretty cool to see current MR devices read surroundings and turn them into geometric shapes to overlay textures, etc.  

Granted you'll only have as virtual a world as you'll be in.. but no  "true VR" isn't really something you're going to see anytime soon.

nothing more 'immersive' then seeing my washing machine while playing a MR game in which I am on a bridge of a starship!

You won't see your washing machine.  That's the point of MR. 

actually that is not at all 'the point' of MR. that would be 'the point' of VR not MR.

That said, 100% of your view space would not be filled with fictional reality, in VR it would.

Not true. Also not true. Both things are very much so.. not true.  After all this time you still struggle with what MR is. 

SEANMCAD

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

The closest you'll get is Mixed Reality anytime soon.  Overlaying "virtual" scenery over actual real world features.  You'll be able to see and hear and smell everything, though you'd likely only be smelling the outdoors or wherever you're actually playing.  

Its pretty cool to see current MR devices read surroundings and turn them into geometric shapes to overlay textures, etc.  

Granted you'll only have as virtual a world as you'll be in.. but no  "true VR" isn't really something you're going to see anytime soon.

nothing more 'immersive' then seeing my washing machine while playing a MR game in which I am on a bridge of a starship!

You won't see your washing machine.  That's the point of MR. 

actually that is not at all 'the point' of MR. that would be 'the point' of VR not MR.

That said, 100% of your view space would not be filled with fictional reality, in VR it would.

Not true. Also not true. Both things are very much so.. not true.  After all this time you still struggle with what MR is. 

I know enough about MR to know that 100% of your vision being enveloped in fictional content with not a single pixel being from the physical world is not what make MR different from VR.

I am not sure you do however.


a hint in what MR 'is all about' is in its name...MIXED reality vs virtual reality

Sovrath

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

Sovrath said:

Can't wait for Virtual Reality Skyrim

Hehe believe it or not, I'm playing that right now.
There's a little magic driver called "VorpX", it supports everything including head tracking in Skyrim. For both Oculus and SteamVR (Vive and compatible). With the rig listed in my signature.

I'll definitely look into that. I built my computer specifically to be able to have a good VR experience after I tried VR Doom at Pax.

I know that Skyrim is going to be released as a VR product but I think this should be interesting. Thanks.

maskedweasel

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

SEANMCAD said:

maskedweasel said:

The closest you'll get is Mixed Reality anytime soon.  Overlaying "virtual" scenery over actual real world features.  You'll be able to see and hear and smell everything, though you'd likely only be smelling the outdoors or wherever you're actually playing.  

Its pretty cool to see current MR devices read surroundings and turn them into geometric shapes to overlay textures, etc.  

Granted you'll only have as virtual a world as you'll be in.. but no  "true VR" isn't really something you're going to see anytime soon.

nothing more 'immersive' then seeing my washing machine while playing a MR game in which I am on a bridge of a starship!

You won't see your washing machine.  That's the point of MR. 

actually that is not at all 'the point' of MR. that would be 'the point' of VR not MR.

That said, 100% of your view space would not be filled with fictional reality, in VR it would.

Not true. Also not true. Both things are very much so.. not true.  After all this time you still struggle with what MR is. 

I know enough about MR to know that 100% of your vision being enveloped in fictional content with not a single pixel being from the physical world is not what make MR different from VR.

I am not sure you do however.

Again, you know little of what MR really is.  It very much so can encapsulate every inch of what you see.  It's unfortunate that you seem to think otherwise.

It's really the entire point of Mixed Reality.  There are a lot of ways to accomplish it.