It works well with VR but not with fixed desktop monitors. Just notice the demo guy struggling with keeping his eyes on the monitor while turning his head around.
That'd be more related to configurations and tweaks, say something like its sensitivity. This explains how TrackIR itself works and you can notice how it minimizes the necessary head movement:
People in EQ2 didn't do stuff like blast crazy music. The in game community is pretty cool. It's just that it doesn't work out naturally. It's either hectic and noisy or a mic level is crazy. The way people talk and how often they drop the f-bomb is huge. So much gets communicated through voice beyond the actual message and that was jarring to me.
In group chat for dungeons there is typically a protocol with leaders and tactical chat taking precedence over banter. In reality there is an etiquette for communication, our volume, content, and mannerisms. In voice proximity chat there isn't, or rather it hasn't evolved and developed into something sane yet.
That's why I don't want to use it in game. But it doesn't matter if you can turn it off which I did in EQ2. I only used it for dungeons. Discord integration is a better approach imo.
Interesting to see the difference between MMORPGs and smaller multiplayer games. In almost any small multiplayer game with voice comms integrated, I've encountered folks blaring music or trolling others by name using the mic.
The same has happened to me in survival games, but I've never used integrated voice comms in MMORPGs, mostly because of the aforementioned 3rd party tools.
Much discussion on Facial Tracking being feature creep; though checking back into 2013 for a min... 0:39: I actually had no idea they were already tinkering with facial tracking that early on, but it shows this is not something they just came up with now and was to happen since the early days.
What we saw is at least 2-3 months away from a deliverable, if not more.
The "open backlog" is a lie. A marketing tool which obviously have no connection to the real world behind the scenes. Stop defending it. Just stop.
That is your opinion. The production report lying on internal estimates for work based on aggressive schedule (you can read about it to understand it), you also can't be ignorant to the caveats in that page to make such claim, they very specifically explain it. So I will not, I have a decent knowledge of how this works myself to understand this flow (considering caveats, the reality of aggressive schedules, the reality that it does not account for the bug-fixing process in internals yet the time to complete code and merge with main branch and the reality of the scope increase of the build with some new things added to it) and unless you want to imply the developers are all in a conspiracy to lie when they claim those were the dates they work with internally, think of it whatever you want but don't come demanding me to do something based on your opinion of something. O_o
I am not saying the developers are lying. i am saying it is not the developers estimates in the first place.
It is a marketing tool. Has nothing to do with the real backlog.
Look at the thing. Any developer could tell you by looking at those fresh builds they where playing that this will not be done for 2-3 months. I refuse to believe that actual developers have estimated this to be done in 3 weeks 3 months ago. Ergo, it was never put together by devs in the first place. It was made by marketing. A lie.
You're probably not far from the truth. He probably sees something that he thinks is cool while surfing the net and then tells his dev team to implement it.
You can see the video I linked they already had R&D and prototyping done on this feature in 2013, months after the game's KS, so this isn't a random feature that wasn't meant to happen.
So this specific feature does not fall on that list, this also explains why they weren't paying much attention to TrackIR, now that they're able to do head tracking with a normal webcam.
The head tracking part seems to be a gimmick though. To be honest I can't see any practical use of that feature. Also the whole tech requires a properly lit face to work I guess. Even during the demo we could see the guy having a lightsource in front of his face. It can be really disturbing considering that many of us usually play at night.
Eh can you really not see how head tracking would be useful in ship combat? As about the light source, they clearly say it can work in "near dark". That's what I am keen on finding out more about.
In combat how? In combat I want to focus on the screen without moving my head around. Your monitor stays still regardless of your head movements. Imagine how fast your eyes get tired while using the head tracking for ship controls.
It goes without saying this is more useful if you're playing on a a big screen or triple monitor set up etc etc.
I mean seriously do you think trackIR and the other head tracking options exist and sell if it serves no useful purpose...I wont even mention how this is a no brainer for any type of VR.
Also like has been mentioned any kind of add on device like these needs adjustments in it's config to work ideally with what ever set up you're using or for personal preference.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
hfztt said: I am not saying the developers are lying. i am saying it is not the developers estimates in the first place.
Look at the thing. Any developer could tell you by looking at those fresh builds they where playing that this will not be done for 2-3 months. I refuse to believe that actual developers have estimated this to be done in 3 weeks 3 months ago. Ergo, it was never put together by devs in the first place. It was made by marketing. A lie.
You are saying that the developers are lying because they stand these dates are the dates they work with, mirroring the internal scheduling as it is. You can't make that statement without calling the developers liars it's just that simple.
Instead of shouting uninformed opinions, go read on the practice of aggressive scheduling and then maybe, just maybe, you might be able to understand that flow and how those dates were never imposing or of solidity.
Working in an office with a similar reality myself and having had discussions with a dev I know there about their setup in terms of producers and how does it flow, I do strongly disagree with you, but you are very much free to have your own opinion about it.
This is from April 2017, it shows how to setup for SC.
Star Citizen | TrackIR 5 | First Time
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Octagon7711 said: Star Citizen | TrackIR 5 | First Time
See this is exactly the thing.
TrackIR 5 costs 150$.
SC by default is now integrating the base functionality that TrackIR provides, possible to achieve under normal webcams, that's quite good to have here.
To get proper benefit you'll need is a 60FPS webcam, that's where the cam faceware is creating could have the worth of a decent head tracking side of the face alone.
Octagon7711 said: Star Citizen | TrackIR 5 | First Time
See this is exactly the thing.
TrackIR 5 costs 150$.
SC by default is now integrating the base functionality that TrackIR provides, possible to achieve under normal webcams, that's quite good to have here.
To get proper benefit you'll need is a 60FPS webcam, that's where the cam faceware is creating could have the worth of a decent head tracking side of the face alone.
Time will tell as TrackIR has been working on their product for years while CIG is working on a prototype. It's going to take them awhile to catch up.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Some day, over the rainbow... SC might actually launch. This is what happens when you give an artist like CR full reigns of a project. He just cant stop adding stuff to it. Its like something in his head just keeps telling him "More money huh? Lets use it to add this X and that Y." He has to rralise that one day the cashola is gonna dry up and they will be forced to either finish with what they have or to fail. They already got a bank loan on the only part of the game that they actually have finished. Im thinking there must be something wrong with it or the bank would be on their ass to get it out and start making money with it.
I'd play this just to troll people through forced voice chat, to make a statement of how terrible it is. I hate voice chat as it is in MMOs, so they want to force it on me? Right back at them.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
Time will tell as TrackIR has been working on their product for years while CIG is working on a prototype. It's going to take them awhile to catch up.
Time tells, from what I understand who does the base tech here is Faceware (also the hardware). That company seems to have worked in strong titles, from the new Star Wars Battlefront 2, to FIFA, Witcher, the upcoming Middle Earth Shadow of War, 2, the last COD, etc...
So they have and develop this tech and work with CIG to implement it. They are about facial animation but with a 60FPS camera, it would be a waste to not do what TrackIR does to some extent.
Time will tell as TrackIR has been working on their product for years while CIG is working on a prototype. It's going to take them awhile to catch up.
Time tells, from what I understand who does the base tech here is Faceware (also the hardware). That company seems to have worked in strong titles, from the new Star Wars Battlefront 2, to FIFA, Witcher, the upcoming Middle Earth Shadow of War, 2, the last COD, etc...
So they have and develop this tech and work with CIG to implement it. They are about facial animation but with a 60FPS camera, it would be a waste to not do what TrackIR does to some extent.
I just hope they don't run into the problem they had with the other outside vendor. CIG's software went through so many changes the other company couldn't keep up. Hopefully they adjusted for that this time.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
But this is Star citizen man, STAR CITIZEN! Everything they do is awesome, contrary to say, Hello Games No Mans Sky, which is getting bashed on these forums to this day. Even though Hello Games has released tons of patches and content at a pace Chris Roberts can only dream of. And its even high quality stuff.
But sorry, I got sidetracked. Star Citizen man, STAR CITIZEN!
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
It always amazes me how no matter how many self imposed deadlines they give out as to when the game will be released, only to keep pushing it back further, while adding yet more things to it, people will still religiously support the game, and its devs. I'm sure some would like this, I'm sure some would like it if they added voice control to the game too (please tell me it's not already something they're doing), and an assortment of other things as well, but there comes a point when they really need to release the blasted game already. Had my doubts about the project right from the initial Kickstarter campaign, I've yet to see anything that didn't only serve to reinforce that feeling.
weird as other have said eq2 has this. I play eq2 i have only ever seen it rarely used. i am hopeful for this game but who knows
Could you please stop bothering us with your actual experience. These are DREAMS man... DREAMS are more important than stupid experience!! That CIG branded webcam will save PC Gaming.
I like fluff has much as the next man, but there comes a time where it needs to go on the back burner to enable the devs to concentrate their full focus on finishing the main game.
Making a third party handle it and even making it so a third party handles the server load portion of it might ease up on CiG's own server load, but it doesn't change the fact that it still adds on to the MMORPG sphaghetti code needed to have all of Star Citizen's pieces working together. That's extra code they'll have to program in AND extra sphaghetti that they constantly must work with whenever fixing bugs and implementing updated additions on top of it . Also, relying on a third party, while having various advantages in that CiG doesn't have to handle the direct programming, makes it even more cumbersome to coordinate the integration of it into the rest of the programming compared to doing it in-house.
Star Citizen's biggest hurdle probably isn't going to be programming (or letting a third party program) each of these individual features. It's going to be putting all the programming noodles together into one coherent programming bowl without having twists and knots. Even in cases where a third party is the one in charge of cooking one of those noodles, that noodle still needs to go into the bowl.
Perhaps you all have been following a different game than me or missed the transparent message on nearly every video or letter that Chris Roberts has put out about SC, the very statement that you would all wear proudly on your own sleeves if you were sitting in his shoes: He is making his dream game. Not yours. With your cash, maybe, but in his vision, his game. If you backed it, you backed that vision, not your own misguided dreams/wishes/wants for what RSI is going to deliver. You took a gamble. If you didn't back it, then you are just a bystander. No matter if you invested or not, we all get to bear witness to a man carrying out a dream or watch him fail trying. It may take 2-3 more years and launch, becoming the most ambitious virtual world ever created. It may take 3-5 more years and fail to live up to promises. It may crash and burn in the next 18 months because of financial issues. Whatever fate brings for those that have followed this game over the years, it will be what it is, and all we can do is sit for the ride. We have no control what developers do with their time. Most often those developers are driven by publisher-overlords or budget-driven timeline crises that rush out unfinished games. At least with Star Citizen, we have a man that has thrown a significant chunk of his own personal fortune, a significant chunk of his life and passion, at project that he brought to life because he had a dream. What did Richard Garriott do with his fortune? He bought a ticket to space, and then proceeded to make a shithole of a game (SotA) with backer money. Chris is actually delivering on quite a few of the features made on the original Kickstarter. Let's go down the list:
A huge universe to explore, trade and adventure in (In Progress): This is on the way, and the current testing area is already quite large.
Constantly expanding and evolving universe (In Progress): Yep
Micro updates rule!: We'll see when it goes live, but so far they are releasing in larger chunks.
Squadron 42 - A Wing Commander style single player mode, playable OFFLINE if you want (In Progress): In process, as promised.
Life during wartime (Not Yet Announced): We shall see, as this isn't a major system, but might rely on a major system.
The conflict never ends (In Progress): SQ42 post-game integration is still planned for integration.
Actions of the players impact the universe and become part of its history and lore (In Progress): Certainly in the pipeline, and in some ways is already implemented.
Allowing user generated content is a key design goal (Not Yet Announced): Not sure if any of these features will be live anytime soon, but there are already community made ships in engine.
It’s about the gameplay and your interactions with others (In Progress): Another system that seems on track.
Fully dynamic economy driven by player actions (Not Yet Announced): Not sure where their economic systems are, but it seems on track (based on progression of current systems). The current itemization reworks and market UI/systems are building the foundation for the player economy.
The cost of society (Not Yet Announced): In line with their current design progress.
Money isn’t everything (In Progress): In line with their current design progress, and requires a large array of systems to implement.
Space is empty but you’re never really alone (Implemented)
Bigger ships offer bigger multi-player action (Implemented): Some minor systems have not been implemented, but the overall superstructure of the big-ship system is in the playable game.
Full rigid body simulation of all spaceships (Implemented)
Intelligent Flight Control System (IFCS) (Implemented)
Dynamic Ship Maneuverability (Implemented)
Ship Components matter! (Implemented)
10X the detail of current AAA games (Implemented)
Everything you would imagine would move or articulate on a spaceship or a device – does! (Implemented)
Range of scale never seen before in a game (Implemented)
Really feel the scale of ships and space battles (Implemented)
Joystick, gamepad, mouse, keyboard are all supported. (Implemented)
Advanced peripheral support (Implemented)
Virtual Reality is here! (Implemented)
Next generation, TODAY (Crytek 3) (Implemented - and upgraded)
A PC gaming enthusiast’s friend! (Implemented - still holds true)
In fact, upon reflecting on that original pitch, the vision has held true and the progress that RSI has made is pretty astounding. Do I have my reservations as to whether the game will be a success? Whether or not it will release? Whether I will enjoy it? Yes. Did I expect it out sooner? Yes, but I understand why it has taken as long as it has. Do I think Chris Roberts i the perfect man to manage this game? Who knows? He has his flaws, but the concept would not be what Star Citizen is, if it was not for him managing the creation of his vision.
You guys questioned my use of the word innovation, as if the word meant nothing in reference to Star Citizen. The fact that some of you questioned that word is mere indication of how sorely lacking your understanding of how to separate your own expectations and perceptions, from the reality of the world, is. The thought of you questioning the innovation in this game boggles my fucking mind. Watch some of the videos, go read some dev blogs, take notes and compare to any other AAA MMORPG...hell, go compare to ones in development. If you can't find innovative, and in some cases INVENTIVE technology, features, or systems being implemented into Star Citizen...perhaps you should quit the internet.
Well, my wall of text is getting fairly large, I don't want anyone south of the border mistaking it for something it's not...so I'll end here: personally, I am rooting for Star Citizen, because why wouldn't I?
Perhaps you all have been following a different game than me or missed the transparent message on nearly every video or letter that Chris Roberts has put out about SC, the very statement that you would all wear proudly on your own sleeves if you were sitting in his shoes: He is making his dream game. Not yours. With your cash, maybe, but in his vision, his game. If you backed it, you backed that vision, not your own misguided dreams/wishes/wants for what RSI is going to deliver. You took a gamble. If you didn't back it, then you are just a bystander. No matter if you invested or not, we all get to bear witness to a man carrying out a dream or watch him fail trying. It may take 2-3 more years and launch, becoming the most ambitious virtual world ever created. It may take 3-5 more years and fail to live up to promises. It may crash and burn in the next 18 months because of financial issues. Whatever fate brings for those that have followed this game over the years, it will be what it is, and all we can do is sit for the ride. We have no control what developers do with their time. Most often those developers are driven by publisher-overlords or budget-driven timeline crises that rush out unfinished games. At least with Star Citizen, we have a man that has thrown a significant chunk of his own personal fortune, a significant chunk of his life and passion, at project that he brought to life because he had a dream. What did Richard Garriott do with his fortune? He bought a ticket to space, and then proceeded to make a shithole of a game (SotA) with backer money. Chris is actually delivering on quite a few of the features made on the original Kickstarter. Let's go down the list:
A huge universe to explore, trade and adventure in (In Progress): This is on the way, and the current testing area is already quite large.
Constantly expanding and evolving universe (In Progress): Yep
Micro updates rule!: We'll see when it goes live, but so far they are releasing in larger chunks.
Squadron 42 - A Wing Commander style single player mode, playable OFFLINE if you want (In Progress): In process, as promised.
Life during wartime (Not Yet Announced): We shall see, as this isn't a major system, but might rely on a major system.
The conflict never ends (In Progress): SQ42 post-game integration is still planned for integration.
Actions of the players impact the universe and become part of its history and lore (In Progress): Certainly in the pipeline, and in some ways is already implemented.
Allowing user generated content is a key design goal (Not Yet Announced): Not sure if any of these features will be live anytime soon, but there are already community made ships in engine.
It’s about the gameplay and your interactions with others (In Progress): Another system that seems on track.
Fully dynamic economy driven by player actions (Not Yet Announced): Not sure where their economic systems are, but it seems on track (based on progression of current systems). The current itemization reworks and market UI/systems are building the foundation for the player economy.
The cost of society (Not Yet Announced): In line with their current design progress.
Money isn’t everything (In Progress): In line with their current design progress, and requires a large array of systems to implement.
Space is empty but you’re never really alone (Implemented)
Bigger ships offer bigger multi-player action (Implemented): Some minor systems have not been implemented, but the overall superstructure of the big-ship system is in the playable game.
Full rigid body simulation of all spaceships (Implemented)
Intelligent Flight Control System (IFCS) (Implemented)
Dynamic Ship Maneuverability (Implemented)
Ship Components matter! (Implemented)
10X the detail of current AAA games (Implemented)
Everything you would imagine would move or articulate on a spaceship or a device – does! (Implemented)
Range of scale never seen before in a game (Implemented)
Really feel the scale of ships and space battles (Implemented)
Joystick, gamepad, mouse, keyboard are all supported. (Implemented)
Advanced peripheral support (Implemented)
Virtual Reality is here! (Implemented)
Next generation, TODAY (Crytek 3) (Implemented - and upgraded)
A PC gaming enthusiast’s friend! (Implemented - still holds true)
In fact, upon reflecting on that original pitch, the vision has held true and the progress that RSI has made is pretty astounding. Do I have my reservations as to whether the game will be a success? Whether or not it will release? Whether I will enjoy it? Yes. Did I expect it out sooner? Yes, but I understand why it has taken as long as it has. Do I think Chris Roberts i the perfect man to manage this game? Who knows? He has his flaws, but the concept would not be what Star Citizen is, if it was not for him managing the creation of his vision.
You guys questioned my use of the word innovation, as if the word meant nothing in reference to Star Citizen. The fact that some of you questioned that word is mere indication of how sorely lacking your understanding of how to separate your own expectations and perceptions, from the reality of the world, is. The thought of you questioning the innovation in this game boggles my fucking mind. Watch some of the videos, go read some dev blogs, take notes and compare to any other AAA MMORPG...hell, go compare to ones in development. If you can't find innovative, and in some cases INVENTIVE technology, features, or systems being implemented into Star Citizen...perhaps you should quit the internet.
Well, my wall of text is getting fairly large, I don't want anyone south of the border mistaking it for something it's not...so I'll end here: personally, I am rooting for Star Citizen, because why wouldn't I?
Where did we hear that spiel before about building his dream game? Oh that's right over a decade ago when he tried and failed miserably. Now he's repeating the same mistakes but with other people's money.
What's transparent about all the information they pump out there for the masses? Hell they just got rid of dates after they promised to give dates because they were going radio silent all the time. Just because SC dumps terabytes of information on the net doesn't mean its transparent if they only give little bits and pieces. Cut through the bullshit and the banter and the hmming and hawing and you have about the same amount of information that a publisher run game releases.
There isn't anything innovative with SC. The innovative things are still on paper. You hear the devs say we want to do this or when this system does this. Saying something is innovative does not make it innovative until it actually works and is in the damn game.
Comments
The same has happened to me in survival games, but I've never used integrated voice comms in MMORPGs, mostly because of the aforementioned 3rd party tools.
It is a marketing tool. Has nothing to do with the real backlog.
Look at the thing. Any developer could tell you by looking at those fresh builds they where playing that this will not be done for 2-3 months. I refuse to believe that actual developers have estimated this to be done in 3 weeks 3 months ago. Ergo, it was never put together by devs in the first place. It was made by marketing. A lie.
I mean seriously do you think trackIR and the other head tracking options exist and sell if it serves no useful purpose...I wont even mention how this is a no brainer for any type of VR.
Also like has been mentioned any kind of add on device like these needs adjustments in it's config to work ideally with what ever set up you're using or for personal preference.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Instead of shouting uninformed opinions, go read on the practice of aggressive scheduling and then maybe, just maybe, you might be able to understand that flow and how those dates were never imposing or of solidity.
Working in an office with a similar reality myself and having had discussions with a dev I know there about their setup in terms of producers and how does it flow, I do strongly disagree with you, but you are very much free to have your own opinion about it.
This is from April 2017, it shows how to setup for SC.
Star Citizen | TrackIR 5 | First Time
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
TrackIR 5 costs 150$.
SC by default is now integrating the base functionality that TrackIR provides, possible to achieve under normal webcams, that's quite good to have here.
To get proper benefit you'll need is a 60FPS webcam, that's where the cam faceware is creating could have the worth of a decent head tracking side of the face alone.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
So they have and develop this tech and work with CIG to implement it. They are about facial animation but with a 60FPS camera, it would be a waste to not do what TrackIR does to some extent.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
But sorry, I got sidetracked. Star Citizen man, STAR CITIZEN!
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
These are DREAMS man... DREAMS are more important than stupid experience!!
That CIG branded webcam will save PC Gaming.
/s
..Cake..
Star Citizen's biggest hurdle probably isn't going to be programming (or letting a third party program) each of these individual features. It's going to be putting all the programming noodles together into one coherent programming bowl without having twists and knots. Even in cases where a third party is the one in charge of cooking one of those noodles, that noodle still needs to go into the bowl.
In fact, upon reflecting on that original pitch, the vision has held true and the progress that RSI has made is pretty astounding. Do I have my reservations as to whether the game will be a success? Whether or not it will release? Whether I will enjoy it? Yes. Did I expect it out sooner? Yes, but I understand why it has taken as long as it has. Do I think Chris Roberts i the perfect man to manage this game? Who knows? He has his flaws, but the concept would not be what Star Citizen is, if it was not for him managing the creation of his vision.
You guys questioned my use of the word innovation, as if the word meant nothing in reference to Star Citizen. The fact that some of you questioned that word is mere indication of how sorely lacking your understanding of how to separate your own expectations and perceptions, from the reality of the world, is. The thought of you questioning the innovation in this game boggles my fucking mind. Watch some of the videos, go read some dev blogs, take notes and compare to any other AAA MMORPG...hell, go compare to ones in development. If you can't find innovative, and in some cases INVENTIVE technology, features, or systems being implemented into Star Citizen...perhaps you should quit the internet.
Well, my wall of text is getting fairly large, I don't want anyone south of the border mistaking it for something it's not...so I'll end here: personally, I am rooting for Star Citizen, because why wouldn't I?
What's transparent about all the information they pump out there for the masses? Hell they just got rid of dates after they promised to give dates because they were going radio silent all the time. Just because SC dumps terabytes of information on the net doesn't mean its transparent if they only give little bits and pieces. Cut through the bullshit and the banter and the hmming and hawing and you have about the same amount of information that a publisher run game releases.
There isn't anything innovative with SC. The innovative things are still on paper. You hear the devs say we want to do this or when this system does this. Saying something is innovative does not make it innovative until it actually works and is in the damn game.