Bungie to Remove Gauntlet that Resembles Hate Group Symbol - Destiny 2 - MMORPG.com

klash2def

RedMachine72 said:

sayuu said:

Stizzled said:

I wonder what most of you immediately relate this symbol to? It doesn't matter where a symbol came from, it matters what people use it to represent.

I don't care if they remove the symbol from the game. But, people on here trying to claim that the symbol can't have a hateful meaning to it because it originated as a meme are being purposefully obtuse.

Hinduism. . .a symbol for Kali. that was my initial reaction but then I realized the swastika  was clockwise so it  is depicting the sun deity not Kali my mistake.


as far as bungie is concerned: they are within their rights to remove or keep whatever art they want. . .just as I am within my rights not to play their games if I don't want to. . .


it would be another matter entirely if the Government forced them to remove it, but that isn't the case so no Constitutional rights were infringed.

People these days do not understand history nor do they want to find out about things on their own or think without being told what to think. A little history for those people "Until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck." Now they only view it as hate because of them.

I cant speak for other countries but MOST folks in America wouldnt think that sign is okay to use in any form. You can spew the history of the symbol all day, but nobody cares. People are talking about what it means in recent memory. Its actually really pretentious to try and bring up the history of the symbol (before germany) when that part of the history of the symbol has nothing to do with anything.. You just wanted to show you know something someone else does not? idk Grats? I guess? 

What that symbol has been used to represent in recent memory is hate, and I'm not just talking Nazi Germany, I'm talking KKK, Skinhead, Alt-Right now White Nationalist (Notice how they changed the name..same ideas/people) America..don't disregard the American history associated with that symbol. People don't care about what it meant before Nazi Germany if I'm being honest. It was used in association with hate acts since that point in history and that fact alone is what may offend people. 

But again.. Bungie did the right thing by the removal and it probably has nothing to do with money as some imply in this thread. It's more than possible its about what they morally believe..also Nobody is going to even remember this in 2 months.

Asheram

klash2def said:

RedMachine72 said:

sayuu said:

Stizzled said:

I wonder what most of you immediately relate this symbol to? It doesn't matter where a symbol came from, it matters what people use it to represent.

I don't care if they remove the symbol from the game. But, people on here trying to claim that the symbol can't have a hateful meaning to it because it originated as a meme are being purposefully obtuse.

Hinduism. . .a symbol for Kali. that was my initial reaction but then I realized the swastika  was clockwise so it  is depicting the sun deity not Kali my mistake.


as far as bungie is concerned: they are within their rights to remove or keep whatever art they want. . .just as I am within my rights not to play their games if I don't want to. . .


it would be another matter entirely if the Government forced them to remove it, but that isn't the case so no Constitutional rights were infringed.

People these days do not understand history nor do they want to find out about things on their own or think without being told what to think. A little history for those people "Until the Nazis used this symbol, the swastika was used by many cultures throughout the past 3,000 years to represent life, sun, power, strength, and good luck." Now they only view it as hate because of them.

I cant speak for other countries but MOST folks in America wouldnt think that sign is okay to use in any form. You can spew the history of the symbol all day, but nobody cares. People are talking about what it means in recent memory. Its actually really pretentious to try and bring up the history of the symbol (before germany) when that part of the history of the symbol has nothing to do with anything.. You just wanted to show you know something someone else does not? idk Grats? I guess? 

What that symbol has been used to represent in recent memory is hate, and I'm not just talking Nazi Germany, I'm talking KKK, Skinhead, now White Nationalist (Notice how they changed the name..same ideas) America..don't disregard the American history associated with that symbol. People don't care about what it meant before Nazi Germany if I'm being honest. It was used in association with hate acts since that point in history and that fact alone is what may offend people. 

But again.. Bungie did the right thing by the removal and it probably has nothing to do with money as some imply in this thread. It's more than possible its about what they morally believe..also Nobody is going to even remember this in 2 months.

They used crosses as well, yet there is no stigmata attached to that symbol, which is still commonly used today with no objections.

FlyByKnight

I'm down with KEK if you guys are ok with some of these. Lemme know:

klash2def

Aeander said:

klash2def said:

SBFord said:

@klash2def Enough. Let's stick to the topic please. 
@Slapshot1188 Also enough. 

Check my earlier post about trying to keep politics out of this and deal more with how Bungie could have done things differently. If you guys can't, I'll close the thread. 

sure thing, I don't enjoy talking to brick walls anyway

I hope you do not consider me to be one of those brick walls. I get that we may disagree on some level, but I think I attempted to handle my points with respect. I intended to continue on as such, but a warning is a warning. 

Ultimately, it's irrelevant though. Nothing actually comes of it. Social conditions don't change overnight, political views only change voluntarily, and no amount of pretentious intellectual pontificating on my part is going to change the fact that our society is still tragically shaped by a 2,000 year old book of outdated, twisted pseudo-morals written by savages from a time before science.

My ref to brick walls are people who just wont even try to see how other people can be affected by things. Simply because it does not bother "them".  So instead of seeing how it could be another way, they call people who don't think like them "retards" and look down on them instead. It doesn't mean they are stronger or have more "Spine" than others it simply means they are closed off to everything that's not like them.. a lot like the "White Nationalists." 

I do agree with some of your points. We don't disagree on everything. The world in general is still living by an old set of rules, some of them good, some of them.. not so good. America in partcular still lives by some very bad rules but that's my opinion though..+ my lense is the lense of a African American male born in the 80s.

Destiny 2 is awesome (With the exception of "shadergate") and this situation doesn't change that.. I'm not gonna stop playing because of it. I'm sure no one else is either.. but again Bungie did what they thought was right.. everyone will move on. Its not that bad to remove something people might find highly offensive. 

Aeander

klash2def said:

Aeander said:

klash2def said:

SBFord said:

@klash2def Enough. Let's stick to the topic please. 
@Slapshot1188 Also enough. 

Check my earlier post about trying to keep politics out of this and deal more with how Bungie could have done things differently. If you guys can't, I'll close the thread. 

sure thing, I don't enjoy talking to brick walls anyway

I hope you do not consider me to be one of those brick walls. I get that we may disagree on some level, but I think I attempted to handle my points with respect. I intended to continue on as such, but a warning is a warning. 

Ultimately, it's irrelevant though. Nothing actually comes of it. Social conditions don't change overnight, political views only change voluntarily, and no amount of pretentious intellectual pontificating on my part is going to change the fact that our society is still tragically shaped by a 2,000 year old book of outdated, twisted pseudo-morals written by savages from a time before science.

My ref to brick walls are people who just wont even try to see how other people can be affected by things. Simply because it does not bother "them".  So instead of seeing how it could be another way, they call people who don't think like them "retards" and look down on them instead. It doesn't mean they are stronger or have more "Spine" than others it simply means they are closed off to everything that's not like them.. a lot like the "White Nationalists." 

I do agree with some of your points. We don't disagree on everything. The world in general is still living by an old set of rules, some of them good, some of them.. not so good. America in partcular still lives by some very bad rules but that's my opinion though..+ my lense is the lense of a African American male born in the 80s.

Destiny 2 is awesome (With the exception of "shadergate") and this situation doesn't change that.. I'm not gonna stop playing because of it. I'm sure no one else is either.. but again Bungie did what they thought was right.. everyone will move on. Its not that bad to remove something people might find highly offensive. 

That said, western culture is still among the most progressive cultures out there. We aren't perfect, but we afford a legal equality that few other cultures enjoy. We merely falter when it comes to realizing that equality in a practical sense. It's primarily an economic inequality, and it may be more correct to view the perceived racial conflict as the only class conflict that objectively exists - that of the rich vs. the poor. 

I for one have some faith that we will reach something resembling practical equality in the future. Where MLK did succeed is in pushing for the legal groundwork. We need only move towards creating the educational and economic opportunities necessary to realize that.

Change is not a swift thing. People fear it. But with time, objectively good standards become normal. That's part of our evolution as social animals.

gervaise1

Gorwe said:

Tsiya said:

So, this guy has free speech because I agree with him, and that other dude over there has free speech because I agree with him, but because that guy on the other side of the road doesn't agree with us he has to STFU and go home. I deplore the KKK and white supremacists, but you can't deny them their rights because you don't agree. The Constitution either works for all Americans or none.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

EXACTLY! AMEN TO THAT! Glad to see some sense around here!

You realise this is a worldwide forum?

The "right" to "free speech" comes at a cost: simplistically the requirement to show respect. In other words there has to be - lets use the word - "balance". 

The need to condem hate speech isn't even an issue in many countries - especially those with a history of war; usually centuries and centuries of war. 

Most companies try hard not to antagonise any of their customers. Companies that have a worldwide bias try even harder - and it is a lot harder for them.

Blizzard have opted to make a change. I would expect them to do exactly the same if they found an anti-Christian, anti-Jewish, anti-Muslim, anti-Hindu, anti-white, black, green with yellow spots, anti-whatever image. And in doing so they may be "to protective" - but they will err on the side of "respect".

I wish companies wouldn't have to - a wish that's up there with world peace and an end to poverty etc. I am not surprised they do - its good business. I am also happy that they do because what companies do has an impact on those thwy come into contact with. 

Akulas

Doesn't kek/bur stand for lol anymore?

Cleffy

What happened in Charlottesville is one of the stupidest things I have seen people do in a while. It's sad someone died and many were injured in brawls that ensued.
White supremacists marched to protect the statue of a famous Virginian during the civil war who was against the institution of slavery on Emancipation Park. Instead of celebrating this, counter-protesters wanted to tear down the statue of said General. In order to stop these 'fascists' from delivering their hate speech and defending the anti-slavery general, they decided to make the situation violent forcing an end to said speech.
Kek is not a racist term and never has been. Just because some racists decided to use a troll flag doesn't automatically make it a racist symbol. Does this mean Khakis, white shirts, and tiki torches are now also racist? Is the Dodge Challenger racist? It's dumb to give racists such power that you have to denounce things just because they use them.

This is clearly has been an attempt to use a tragic event to push a narrative the left has wanted to push for a long time. The alt-right is racist. There are not many in the alt-right who are racist. Almost as many who are still Democrats because they won't vote for the party of Nixon. It's just their identity politics and how they attempt to create divides. It's a little sad people are getting swept up in this and calling people like Sargon of Akkad, Lauren Southern, and Ben Shapiro Fascists. It's also sad that a game company caves to the babies on the left who need their safe places and don't understand kek means lol.

MadFrenchie

Cleffy said:

White supremacists marched to protect the statue of a famous Virginian during the civil war who was against the institution of slavery on Emancipation Park. Instead of celebrating this, counter-protesters wanted to tear down the statue of said General. In order to stop these 'fascists' from delivering their hate speech and defending the anti-slavery general, they decided to make the situation violent forcing an end to said speech.

(Emphasis added by me)


Holy shit.  Yes, why aren't we celebrating white supremacists??

lodestone90

Torval said:

Aeander said:

Also, for the record, it is news to me that the symbol even appeared in Charlottesville. To me, the entire Charlottesville debacle was a case of irrelevant, racist assholes being protested by other irrelevant, racist assholes who then got promptly run over by an even more irrelevant, racist asshole. 

No, it wasn't "other racist assholes". Sorry (not sorry) to break the forum rules, but no. It was facist racists and people who stand against that. No one is a racist for standing against fascists. That doesn't make racism. White supremacy is racism by definition.

I joined the military, went to war, and risked my life so you can love this country, hate this country, fly flags and yeehaw, or burn them. But I did not do that to stand by and left fascists gain equal voice or standing and take over this country. We joined a world war to fight fascism. No, no, and NO or we won't remain a country.

It's a symbol. An artist can make a new one. Nothing of value is lost.

You are obviously someone who cannot separate themselves emotionally from situations and have clearly chosen a side in the hilarious pissing contest between two ideological fringe groups. Both sides are very much in the wrong. The racist right-wing side( I refuse to call them fascist because people use that word to describe things that they don't like without understanding what fascism actually is.They also aren't Nazis as that is a specific political party from the 1930's-40's. Neo-nazi might be applicable.) and the far-left domestic terrorists (who aren't very quiet about their anti-white, so racism, and anti-male views) are both spewing hate and violence. (the so-called antifa for much longer)

Also bringing up the military is a very weak appeal to authority argument. As if your military service allows you to define what rights people have lol. Saying you were a PoliSci major would have had a greater impact, although not by much.

To keep the post on-topic, Bungie has every right to remove an art asset in their game whatever the reason. However it does denote their willingness to bend quickly to a very vocal minority which should worry people when a complaint is raised about a much larger issue like a character or storyline. Changing or censoring anything in their game, I believe, violates artistic integrity but since its the artist themselves doing it I don't have a leg to stand-on.

I will leave with this, however. In a universe where we violently kill alien and robotic beings it seems like a few black lines on a green sleeve would be the least of our worries.

Xxxusernametakenxxx

klash2def said:

Xxxusernametakenxxx said:

klash2def said:

Rhoklaw said:

So, you don't see the irony in your statement? People burning a flag of the country that gives them the right to burn a flag? That is by definition... true irony. If you are protesting a government, you do so by voting. You don't burn 200 years of history because your unhappy now. That is called irrational behavior.

Being American is Ironic in general. I don't need to give a history lesson..

Burning a Flag is not comparable to a racist pep rally that promotes Hate against other people

So when the Alt-left terrorist hate group antifaci and BLM holds signs that says kill white people is that racist? When they holds sign saying all white people are racist doesn't that make them racist and bigots? When the Alt left terrorists groups like antifaci and BLM throw urine and feces, fire spray, hit them with boards with nails is that a hate group? Now I'm not talking about them attacking white supremist I'm talking when they attack the supporter of The President of The United States does that make the Alt left racist, hateful bigots?

I get it you think the Alt left terrorists hate groups LIKE BLM and Antifaci are perfectly fine and only white people can be racist. Sorry contrary to what you were indoctrinated in whatever school you attended thsts not the case. You clearly do need a history lesson.

First off, stop putting words in my mouth.
Secondly BLM isnt a hate group. KKK, White Nationalist, Neo-Nazi (Whatever the fuck you call em) are hate groups.

BLM is a group of people (Mostly black but all races) who subscribe to the idea that Police Reform needs to happen and happen ASAP. They started the movement because Police Officers were killing innocent black people, from 11 year old children to women pulled over for a bad tail light. BLM was them saying "Hey our lives matter to us, dont kill us please!" 

KKK is "Nobody matters but US, this is our country" 

Do you see the difference now? Stop your bullshit..

Hey thats great bud you are a proud flag carrying (yes they have a flag) member of the racist, hateful terrorist group BLM.  Just because you are a proud member of a racist, hateful terrorist group does not mean they are not a racist, hateful terrorist group.  

Being a member of this racist, hateful terrorist group you should know the facts about the situation you are trying to bring up.  The women as you claim was not killed, a Latino officer shot her boyfriend who was illegally caring a firearm ( in the state he was in it is illegal to carry a firearm while on drugs like he was).  He also reached for the gun after the Latino officer told him multiple times NOT to reach for it.  The officer was acquitted on all charges.  

BLM chants 'all white people should be killed' 'all white people are racist' 'pigs in a blanket fry them like bacon' and 'how do we want our cops?  Dead'.  They are as racist, bigoted, hateful, ignorant  as the kkk, neo-nazi or whatever you call them but BLM and antifaci are far more destructive and dangerous than any kkk, neo-nazi or whatever they are called group because people like you drink the koolaid from the MSM and actually believe they are not the hateful, racist, terrorist group they are.  

You can pretend you are a marine but when you pretend or actually believe BLM or antifaci is not a racist, hateful, terrorist organization you lose all credibility.  

The only bullshit on these seven pages is coming from you the one who supports a racist, bigoted, hateful terrorist organization like BLM and Antifaci

vorathian

Now that I know the staff of this website are vehemently anti white i'll make sure I never come here again. I will also make sure that a large player community and /pol/ know exactly where you stand as a company. Thank you for showing your true colors.

Xxxusernametakenxxx

klash2def said:

Lets not talk about stats. I can show you stats you wouldn't believe. Last year alone more than 250+ black people killed by police. Most of the situations unarmed and that's a problem. 

Or trust me Mr.Supporter of the racist, hateful terrorist group BLM and Antifci you don't want to talk about facts.  If we did you would just dig your head in the sad and call everyone a racist. 

For example there are 3x more blacks killed by blacks in a city like Chicago or Baltimore than by cops yet you racist, hateful terrorists group does not care about those black lives?  Of no they only stir a ruckus,  vandalize, block traffic, lie about the situation (hands up don't shoot, he was handcuffed etc etc) and burn their own cities down when they can pin the killings on a white cop.  If the cop is not white don't worry the msm will do their magic and change the pigment of the officers face.

Yeah they are truly all about black lives matter and have no ulterior motive to push their hateful, ignorant racist, bigoted agenda.  

Redemp

 Back on point - The artist that placed this into the game clearly wanted to mirror the Kekistan meme. It doesn't matter if that flag is a troll (Grow up kids) or pure racist idolatry... it has no place in Destiny 2. Thus it was removed.

Xxxusernametakenxxx

vorathian said:

Now that I know the staff of this website are vehemently anti white i'll make sure I never come here again. I will also make sure that a large player community and /pol/ know exactly where you stand as a company. Thank you for showing your true colors.

Yeah its pretty bad when you have their mods making SJW comments and defending racist comments like Klash has been making. 

Tykam123

It's not a hate symbol. Fake news.

postlarval

Xxxusernametakenxxx said:

vorathian said:

Now that I know the staff of this website are vehemently anti white i'll make sure I never come here again. I will also make sure that a large player community and /pol/ know exactly where you stand as a company. Thank you for showing your true colors.

Yeah its pretty bad when you have their mods making SJW comments and defending racist comments like Klash has been making. 

You really shouldn't create these alt accounts to get around your ban.

EDIT: Oh and before you start screeching that you're not using an alt account...

As of this post:

You joined today.
You visited the site 5 times.
You posted 7 times.
All 7 of your posts are in the same thread.

MadFrenchie

Xxxusernametakenxxx said:

Xxxusernametakenxxx said:

vorathian said:

Now that I know the staff of this website are vehemently anti white i'll make sure I never come here again. I will also make sure that a large player community and /pol/ know exactly where you stand as a company. Thank you for showing your true colors.

Yeah its pretty bad when you have their mods making SJW comments and defending racist comments like Klash has been making. 

Why would I have a main account to a site that has sjw mods? 

You got confused about which posts are your alt account's and which are not, and you quoted your own post.



GG.