As far as games made for masses - like MMOs - devs go where the money is.
Action combat has far bigger audience today - hence the shift.
But there will always be indie dev studios that are trying to cater to smaller groups - so no worries.
I think this is partially true, a more correct statement is that devs develop games the kids want to play. Over the past 10 years those kids have been millennials and the games have glaringly been developed for them, (F2P, buy pretty much anything instantly with real life money, etc) Gen X would have never done this. When people think back to the glory old days of gaming they are thinking back to a time where the games were developed for Gen X, where you had to earn your rewards and back when there was a journey to the game.
The millennial version doesn't have that, it's more about getting to the end game pretty much instantly, buying special mounts and gear and make yourself feel like you have accomplished something. That's how games are designed today, buy xp boasts to get you to the end, cash shops that let you buy just about anything, advertising that it's 'free' when in actually you are paying far more than a regular sub game would need, only a millennial would fall for this.
The good news is when are about to leave the dark ages of gaming, the millennials are getting older and the new generation is just coming out of highschool which means we should start seeing more interesting games being developed very soon. BTW, this new generation is by far, by far more interesting and engaging than millennials are, I'm excited to see how games developed for them turn out as I think those games will be much more interesting to Gen X and even what's left of the Baby Boomers.
If you don't want old school don't play old school. Tired of people like you telling me what I should and should not like when it comes to MMOs. I like the old school experience, so what? Who are you to tell me what I want? That it is all "nostalgia". Seriously, I don't care if you don't want it, why should you care if I do?
Yeah, I agree.
I understand their points but the whole "nostalgia" argument is only about one thing; the emotions, experiences one had with their first/second game.
It doesn't address that games today are designed differently. I think part of their problem is that they only see the world through a very narrow lens, not realizing the immense amount of content that humanity has created over 100's of years that doesn't fit into today's mold of "what's good/desirable". Yet, people still want to watch/listen/experience this content because it has such great merit and is so unique and different.
Same with these games.
Wanting an old school experience is no different than wanting to watch movies from the 30's/40's. Or listening to Organum.
Also, some like to point out that "we're now adults (even though I was an adult when I started playing mmorpg's) and have responsibilities, family, job etc so we can't play these games".
Not everyone's life is constructed in such a way where they center their time around family or mowing the lawn.
And quite frankly, I have more time now then was I was younger and more money. If I need to clean my house or if I had a lawn, I'd hire someone to do it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
As far as games made for masses - like MMOs - devs go where the money is.
Action combat has far bigger audience today - hence the shift.
But there will always be indie dev studios that are trying to cater to smaller groups - so no worries.
I think this is partially true, a more correct statement is that devs develop games the kids want to play. Over the past 10 years those kids have been millennials and the games have glaringly been developed for them, (F2P, buy pretty much anything instantly with real life money, etc) Gen X would have never done this. When people think back to the glory old days of gaming they are thinking back to a time where the games were developed for Gen X, where you had to earn your rewards and back when there was a journey to the game.
The millennial version doesn't have that, it's more about getting to the end game pretty much instantly, buying special mounts and gear and make yourself feel like you have accomplished something. That's how games are designed today, buy xp boasts to get you to the end, cash shops that let you buy just about anything, advertising that it's 'free' when in actually you are paying far more than a regular sub game would need, only a millennial would fall for this.
The good news is when are about to leave the dark ages of gaming, the millennials are getting older and the new generation is just coming out of highschool which means we should start seeing more interesting games being developed very soon. BTW, this new generation is by far, by far more interesting and engaging than millennials are, I'm excited to see how games developed for them turn out as I think those games will be much more interesting to Gen X and even what's left of the Baby Boomers.
I am part of gen x and am not willing to say we were better. I do think things were more exciting and interesting for me, but on the flip side bullying and abuse was almost an accepted norm during the 80s and 90s. This made for more interesting stories and interaction IMO, but also was unhealthy for people in many ways. I guess everything has its ups and downs. Things do change with different generations, but I'm not sure how great it would be to go back to the concepts of that time period even if we could. Gen X loved to be punished. We were willing to do unhealthy things to ourselves in the name of fun. We were taught to tuff things out and disregard pain. There was a lot less information available to us. Some of these things are what made the games more fun, but at the same time hurt us over time. The Millennials are much more connected via social media and have access to a lot better advice when it comes to being healthy. I think their identity as a generation is more to do with being responsible, polite, and healthy. Things obviously can change quickly and the next generation may feel it's too restrictive. I guess we will see what happens. I think it would be hard for any new generation to go the wild route that we saw in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s as social media always forces people to behave in a certain way in this day and age. One thing I miss a lot from the 80s and 90s is Halloween. It's just very different now with how it's approached and is a good example of why MMOs are less fun for me. There wasn't much information available in those days and Halloween was a really scary event. Kids would go out on their own, misbehave, watch scary movies, and cause havoc. There was this magical atmosphere that is lost in this day and age of control. It was the same way with early MMOs. They were a magical experience for me at least. Even if MMOs are recreated the same way it won't be the same experience IMO.
Main reason they felt good was the community there were very few toxic players vs now it's like 90% toxic and 10% REAL gamers and they were forced grouping from the get go not like now you can solo to level cap like wtf. Games were build for gamers vs now build for masses. Back in the days I knew many that were not gamers at all didn't play videogames but they did play strategy games including Warcraft which was a strategy game for you younglings that don't know that, so fast forward WoW releases all these non gamers joined gamers and word got out even more non gamers join mmorpg name becomes mainstream everyone and their mother know now what mmorpg are and what do the masses do when they join in? COMPLAIN about everything like oh too much grind(mofo we gamer love grind stfu), too difficult(go back to facebook and phone apps) takes for ever to go from one place to the other(stupid devs: insta travel added and killed immersion) Wow got shit every patch and every expac cause of these fake gamers that all they do is complain and mess the whole genre for the geeks at heart.
100 % this Once mmo's became mainstream it turned into toxic garbage. Back in the early days you were surprised if you ran into an ass hole. Today you expect it. The oly thing that's changed in mmo's is the graphics. We are all still playing EQ.
Hell most games can't even be bothered to compete with vanilla Everquest.
It had 12 classes, now some new games lucky to see 5 or 6.
Races, starting towns, spell variety, spell numbers, items, number of zones, monster variety, level design, etc etc etc. Even 3D swimmable water (looking at you ESO and FFXIX). I can't believe how lazy they are when it comes to comparing to EQ.
Old school literally let's you see gamers being charged more for less.
Main reason they felt good was the community there were very few toxic players vs now it's like 90% toxic and 10% REAL gamers and they were forced grouping from the get go not like now you can solo to level cap like wtf. Games were build for gamers vs now build for masses. Back in the days I knew many that were not gamers at all didn't play videogames but they did play strategy games including Warcraft which was a strategy game for you younglings that don't know that, so fast forward WoW releases all these non gamers joined gamers and word got out even more non gamers join mmorpg name becomes mainstream everyone and their mother know now what mmorpg are and what do the masses do when they join in? COMPLAIN about everything like oh too much grind(mofo we gamer love grind stfu), too difficult(go back to facebook and phone apps) takes for ever to go from one place to the other(stupid devs: insta travel added and killed immersion) Wow got shit every patch and every expac cause of these fake gamers that all they do is complain and mess the whole genre for the geeks at heart.
This is inaccurate. I was in games in MMOs in the 90s and players were far more toxic. I was one of them. Most people were more laid back about and accepting of bad behavior and raging as it was part of our lives. Now you can't say or do anything without someone reprimanding you, you reprimanding them, or a moderating reprimanding one of you. That doesn't mean there weren't rules we all followed to coexist. To me, this freedom made the game fun though. Doing bad things can create a more exciting environment to play in.
I do think that the games being new had a large impact on the fun. Things are always more fun when they are at that experimental stage and few truly understand what they are all about.
Agree... I think the key to the nostalgia, for me, was having little idea what kind of game I was about to experience. And then learning the ropes and getting by, and then finding out it gets deeper and deeper.
These days, by simple experience, you start a new MMO knowing how about 70% of it works. Discovering that remaining 30% is often either a short journey followed by that "Okay, now what?" feeling, or a long, tedious one where not much happens. GW2 was a bit like the latter when it launched.
And it's in that way(if not others that many would argue) that new MMO's are like single player games. Short learning curve, with the emphasis on story progression rather than radical character/gameplay development.
I still enjoy the newer games, and I still can't help but roll my eyes at the posts that say stuff like: "If an old school game were made today, it would decimate all". But I do think there's a market for old school games, and I'm glad there are some good teams out there trying to put them together. And ya know... I do wonder what pre-cu SWG would be like with a better interface and not having your character rubber-band all over the place...
As far as games made for masses - like MMOs - devs go where the money is.
Action combat has far bigger audience today - hence the shift.
But there will always be indie dev studios that are trying to cater to smaller groups - so no worries.
I think this is partially true, a more correct statement is that devs develop games the kids want to play. Over the past 10 years those kids have been millennials and the games have glaringly been developed for them, (F2P, buy pretty much anything instantly with real life money, etc) Gen X would have never done this. When people think back to the glory old days of gaming they are thinking back to a time where the games were developed for Gen X, where you had to earn your rewards and back when there was a journey to the game.
The millennial version doesn't have that, it's more about getting to the end game pretty much instantly, buying special mounts and gear and make yourself feel like you have accomplished something. That's how games are designed today, buy xp boasts to get you to the end, cash shops that let you buy just about anything, advertising that it's 'free' when in actually you are paying far more than a regular sub game would need, only a millennial would fall for this.
The good news is when are about to leave the dark ages of gaming, the millennials are getting older and the new generation is just coming out of highschool which means we should start seeing more interesting games being developed very soon. BTW, this new generation is by far, by far more interesting and engaging than millennials are, I'm excited to see how games developed for them turn out as I think those games will be much more interesting to Gen X and even what's left of the Baby Boomers.
I am part of gen x and am not willing to say we were better. I do think things were more exciting and interesting for me, but on the flip side bullying and abuse was almost an accepted norm during the 80s and 90s. This made for more interesting stories and interaction IMO, but also was unhealthy for people in many ways. I guess everything has its ups and downs. Things do change with different generations, but I'm not sure how great it would be to go back to the concepts of that time period even if we could. Gen X loved to be punished. We were willing to do unhealthy things to ourselves in the name of fun. We were taught to tuff things out and disregard pain. There was a lot less information available to us. Some of these things are what made the games more fun, but at the same time hurt us over time. The Millennials are much more connected via social media and have access to a lot better advice when it comes to being healthy. I think their identity as a generation is more to do with being responsible, polite, and healthy. Things obviously can change quickly and the next generation may feel it's too restrictive. I guess we will see what happens. I think it would be hard for any new generation to go the wild route that we saw in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s as social media always forces people to behave in a certain way in this day and age. One thing I miss a lot from the 80s and 90s is Halloween. It's just very different now with how it's approached and is a good example of why MMOs are less fun for me. There wasn't much information available in those days and Halloween was a really scary event. Kids would go out on their own, misbehave, watch scary movies, and cause havoc. There was this magical atmosphere that is lost in this day and age of control. It was the same way with early MMOs. They were a magical experience for me at least. Even if MMOs are recreated the same way it won't be the same experience IMO.
I'm not saying we go back to the Gen X days, although it was fun. I'm saying with a new generation coming into the mainstream we should now start seeing games change to cater to that generation. And personally I see this new generation as being far more interesting which means the games will start to become more interesting.
Hell most games can't even be bothered to compete with vanilla Everquest.
It had 12 classes, now some new games lucky to see 5 or 6.
Races, starting towns, spell variety, spell numbers, items, number of zones, monster variety, level design, etc etc etc. Even 3D swimmable water (looking at you ESO and FFXIX). I can't believe how lazy they are when it comes to comparing to EQ.
Old school literally let's you see gamers being charged more for less.
I think DAOC had 20 to 30 classes at release, it has something like 40 to 50 now. This is what I really miss, the diversity in games. League of Legends is the most popular MOBA of all time, I think that is partially because there is over 80 champions you can play which leads to great diversity and interesting repeating game play. This is something that all the new MMORPGs screw up big time.
Also, each class doesn't have to be mature at release or totally awesome with 100x abilities. Just give each a few abilities (MVP) and let the class grow with the game... this is another mistake MMORPGs make today.
Oldschool games have a very different feel than newer games. I'm not saying I prefer that feel but sometimes it is nice to play a game with that sort of feeling. It might have been my age at the time or what I was into, but playing older MMO's always had this feeling of wonder or mystery as I explored worlds. Classes felt a lot more solid and had actual roles back then (in some games). Games had dedicated buffing classes, or insanely large amounts of classes and races. There was a lot less instant gratification, and a lot less instant travel. I love that modern games allow you to do a lot of different things, I'm glad I don't have to sit and grind in one spot for 80 hours straight to gain a level. But sometimes I do miss the tedious nature, I do want something that takes a long time to acquire, that requires a group of people grinding to get it. But more often, I do want to have it faster now. I have more responsibility than I used to, I have a job that takes up quite a bit of my time, and the modern structure for MMO's fits my needs more than the previous one. But if a new game came out that felt like the older games, I would probably support it. Pantheon looks to be something like that, and I'm hoping it turns out good. Same with Camelot Unchained.
Currently playing some WoW Legion content and, I gotta say, there's still a longing for the old school style of dungeon content that existed throughout the world back in the day. I ran the Eye of Azshara dungeon as part of the quest line, and my group literally did nothing but run through footstomping the content without any real thought other than "what's the next skill in my rotation?" No care was needed nor taken in what or how many enemies were pulled, we just steamrolled it. It was... Anti-climactic.
I'd like to see the old school challenge of general content return.
As far as games made for masses - like MMOs - devs go where the money is.
Action combat has far bigger audience today - hence the shift.
But there will always be indie dev studios that are trying to cater to smaller groups - so no worries.
I think this is partially true, a more correct statement is that devs develop games the kids want to play. Over the past 10 years those kids have been millennials and the games have glaringly been developed for them, (F2P, buy pretty much anything instantly with real life money, etc) Gen X would have never done this. When people think back to the glory old days of gaming they are thinking back to a time where the games were developed for Gen X, where you had to earn your rewards and back when there was a journey to the game.
The millennial version doesn't have that, it's more about getting to the end game pretty much instantly, buying special mounts and gear and make yourself feel like you have accomplished something. That's how games are designed today, buy xp boasts to get you to the end, cash shops that let you buy just about anything, advertising that it's 'free' when in actually you are paying far more than a regular sub game would need, only a millennial would fall for this.
The good news is when are about to leave the dark ages of gaming, the millennials are getting older and the new generation is just coming out of highschool which means we should start seeing more interesting games being developed very soon. BTW, this new generation is by far, by far more interesting and engaging than millennials are, I'm excited to see how games developed for them turn out as I think those games will be much more interesting to Gen X and even what's left of the Baby Boomers.
I am part of gen x and am not willing to say we were better. I do think things were more exciting and interesting for me, but on the flip side bullying and abuse was almost an accepted norm during the 80s and 90s. This made for more interesting stories and interaction IMO, but also was unhealthy for people in many ways. I guess everything has its ups and downs. Things do change with different generations, but I'm not sure how great it would be to go back to the concepts of that time period even if we could. Gen X loved to be punished. We were willing to do unhealthy things to ourselves in the name of fun. We were taught to tuff things out and disregard pain. There was a lot less information available to us. Some of these things are what made the games more fun, but at the same time hurt us over time. The Millennials are much more connected via social media and have access to a lot better advice when it comes to being healthy. I think their identity as a generation is more to do with being responsible, polite, and healthy. Things obviously can change quickly and the next generation may feel it's too restrictive. I guess we will see what happens. I think it would be hard for any new generation to go the wild route that we saw in the 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s as social media always forces people to behave in a certain way in this day and age. One thing I miss a lot from the 80s and 90s is Halloween. It's just very different now with how it's approached and is a good example of why MMOs are less fun for me. There wasn't much information available in those days and Halloween was a really scary event. Kids would go out on their own, misbehave, watch scary movies, and cause havoc. There was this magical atmosphere that is lost in this day and age of control. It was the same way with early MMOs. They were a magical experience for me at least. Even if MMOs are recreated the same way it won't be the same experience IMO.
I'm not saying we go back to the Gen X days, although it was fun. I'm saying with a new generation coming into the mainstream we should now start seeing games change to cater to that generation. And personally I see this new generation as being far more interesting which means the games will start to become more interesting.
I'm curious what you think the difference is between the new generation of gamers and millenials?
As I understood it, the term "millenial" refers to anyone who came of age in the new millenium, so basically anyone born after 1982ish. The reason for the distinction is that this is the first generation to grow up with mobile phones and the internet and those 2 technologies dramatically changed the way we socialise and perceive the world.
What is the difference between a millenial and whatever you want to call this new group? I would have thought things would continue to get worse. I was born in 1985. I got my own PC with internet when I was 15, got my first mobile phone when I was 16. I am old enough to remember a time before these technologies but young enough that these technology have become a "required" part of my existence.
Given that these technologies are the cause of our instant gratification culture, I would have assumed that those who have never lived life without them (your new generation) would be in a worse situation than those who had a childhood free of them (like me).
Currently Playing: WAR RoR - Spitt rr7X Black Orc | Scrotling rr6X Squig Herder | Scabrous rr4X Shaman
Only skimmed the thread but I could not see one poster who thinks old MMOs are better in every way to new MMOs. All of us who mention the plus side of old school MMOs, will mention certain elements that were better back then. But some how this gets blown up into us thinking that OS is the best school in every way.
You give one example, the community. Well the community was better, its hard to escape that fact compared to todays MMOs. The fact we mention it a lot does not make it less likely to be true.
Only skimmed the thread but I could not see one poster who thinks old MMOs are better in every way to new MMOs. All of us who mention the plus side of old school MMOs, will mention certain elements that were better back then. But some how this gets blown up into us thinking that OS is the best school in every way.
You give one example, the community. Well the community was better, its hard to escape that fact compared to todays MMOs. The fact we mention it a lot does not make it less likely to be true.
See the community matters the most cause devs listen to them and change games to where we old school players don't like them at all. New games now have 0 immersion, solo, dumb and arrows pointing you where to go, level cap in a day or two not about the journey but just end game and all these are community issue.
Given that these technologies are the cause of our instant gratification culture, I would have assumed that those who have never lived life without them (your new generation) would be in a worse situation than those who had a childhood free of them (like me).
It would probably be a huge shock for those who never lived life without them.
Heck, you were born in 1985 so the idea of computer technology being at least a part of your life is still present.
I have memories of no cable TV, only a handful of channels, Certainly no atm's, no remote control, long lines at the bank on friday to get money, stores closed Sunday, no video games.
Being one of the few people on the Subway NOT looking at a phone is pretty funny.
So yeah, different generations have different expectations. I mean, I suppose I could be the generation who only had radio ...
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
As far as games made for masses - like MMOs - devs go where the money is.
Action combat has far bigger audience today - hence the shift.
But there will always be indie dev studios that are trying to cater to smaller groups - so no worries.
I am not 100% convinced you are right there. There certainly are some newer successful action combat MMOs but they are generally good games and such tend to do fine no matter what combat you use.
The none action games have at the same time generally dumbed down themselves so much that there is little need for tactics until you reach the endgame and I am not so sure that is smart.
Trinity and similar mechanics tend to be slower and therefor allow the player to think and plan better but without the need to do just that it is rather pointless. I think they went to far to simplify things and lost a lot of what was fun in their combat.
Both types can be fun if done right and both can be popular (early Wow was still a huge success for instance). The difference is that action combat actually is evolving while the more tactical version is devolving.
People have lost a lot of interest in tactical combat ( I am not using the trinity word because there are other possibilities even if it is the usual one) but I think that is the devs fault, not that the broad masses can't like it.
And no matter what combat system you uses the important factor is how fun it is since you spend a lot of time in combat when you play most MMOs. Just copying and simplify older systems don't cut it anymore and havn't done it for years,
You aren't convinced. How about players who love pvp but don't want the world. An action game keeps them having their pvp fix. IF that convinces you, then you can see why the devs chase that.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Only skimmed the thread but I could not see one poster who thinks old MMOs are better in every way to new MMOs. All of us who mention the plus side of old school MMOs, will mention certain elements that were better back then. But some how this gets blown up into us thinking that OS is the best school in every way.
You give one example, the community. Well the community was better, its hard to escape that fact compared to todays MMOs. The fact we mention it a lot does not make it less likely to be true.
I have been thinking for a couple minutes, and I may be the one....I mean sure graphics are better, but I don't even mind UO old school graphics...So while it is nicer, it wouldn't keep me from playing something (if it had everything else). I do not like instances, lfg tools, arenas, f2p, cash shops, name changes, and b2p (I like subs, it makes it easier to police your games community, f2p does bring more bodies, but more trash and problems along with it.). Which is a big reason I stopped playing EQ1, it was becoming too instanced. I mean there may be something that I am not thinking of, but for the most part, no 'innovation' in a mmorpg that I can think of this second, I would really miss, going back to a old school type mmorpg (that's why I am keeping a eye on Pantheon).
As you can see from my dislike list, I have gone a long time without a mmorpg at times, and Archeage (I am playing now), is what I thought the problems with f2p/cash shop would do to a game. I have gotten around the p2w, but doing so has made the game more of a job, playing 5 accounts (I use gold to pay for patron on all of them), both in EU/NA. I would much rather have 1 account, no labor (which gives rise to multiple accounts), and just play a game.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
It wasn't so much the games themselves. but the communities is what we miss...... I made more friends in one game (EQ) than I have in all other games combined.....While the slow play was hated by some, those of us that played from the beginning loved it and talked to all kinds of people and made alot of in game friends....Today most games are solo quest/solo play and you dont need to chat or ask anyone for anything....While the graphics and quality of the games themsleves may be better today, the multiplayer aspect is severely lacking.
The community you remember is never coming back. Fewer and fewer of the older Gen X people play, and the millennial and post millennial crowd run the show in online games. They like troll, spout random offensive garbage in global chat to see who they can trigger, and generally don't care who they offend which forces most of the rest of us to just block them and everyone out and not talk to anyone. I remember back in the day we had a few in my SWG guild and they didn't mesh will with any of us.
You used to be able to meet some random player out in the middle of nowhere and group up and work together, strike up a conversation and become friends. These days you either get yelled at for helping like you are trying to kills steal, or they just run off without even a FU after you help them.
Guilds in most MMOs just aren't the same as they were either, it's too political and people tend to stay in their own little cliches, even within the guild. It's just not the same anymore.
Given that these technologies are the cause of our instant gratification culture, I would have assumed that those who have never lived life without them (your new generation) would be in a worse situation than those who had a childhood free of them (like me).
It would probably be a huge shock for those who never lived life without them.
Heck, you were born in 1985 so the idea of computer technology being at least a part of your life is still present.
I have memories of no cable TV, only a handful of channels, Certainly no atm's, no remote control, long lines at the bank on friday to get money, stores closed Sunday, no video games.
Being one of the few people on the Subway NOT looking at a phone is pretty funny.
So yeah, different generations have different expectations. I mean, I suppose I could be the generation who only had radio ...
No calculators, I learned to use a slide rule in high school, heck, maybe even an abacus back in elementary school.
Yet here's a funny thing, we managed to put men on the moon 6 years before I received my first personal calculator as a graduation present, they must of had to row or something.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Doesn't matter to me what you call it, I'm looking for a game where there's a large percentage of the content that needs more than one person, more roles are needed and they are important, and gameplay that isn't so "Vegas" with overhead symbols and glitter-bombed environmental items. More intuition and less flashing lights. This doesn't mean an exodus from all modern MMO advancement though and VR seems to understand this.
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I think this is partially true, a more correct statement is that devs develop games the kids want to play. Over the past 10 years those kids have been millennials and the games have glaringly been developed for them, (F2P, buy pretty much anything instantly with real life money, etc) Gen X would have never done this. When people think back to the glory old days of gaming they are thinking back to a time where the games were developed for Gen X, where you had to earn your rewards and back when there was a journey to the game.
The millennial version doesn't have that, it's more about getting to the end game pretty much instantly, buying special mounts and gear and make yourself feel like you have accomplished something. That's how games are designed today, buy xp boasts to get you to the end, cash shops that let you buy just about anything, advertising that it's 'free' when in actually you are paying far more than a regular sub game would need, only a millennial would fall for this.
The good news is when are about to leave the dark ages of gaming, the millennials are getting older and the new generation is just coming out of highschool which means we should start seeing more interesting games being developed very soon. BTW, this new generation is by far, by far more interesting and engaging than millennials are, I'm excited to see how games developed for them turn out as I think those games will be much more interesting to Gen X and even what's left of the Baby Boomers.
I understand their points but the whole "nostalgia" argument is only about one thing; the emotions, experiences one had with their first/second game.
It doesn't address that games today are designed differently. I think part of their problem is that they only see the world through a very narrow lens, not realizing the immense amount of content that humanity has created over 100's of years that doesn't fit into today's mold of "what's good/desirable". Yet, people still want to watch/listen/experience this content because it has such great merit and is so unique and different.
Same with these games.
Wanting an old school experience is no different than wanting to watch movies from the 30's/40's. Or listening to Organum.
Also, some like to point out that "we're now adults (even though I was an adult when I started playing mmorpg's) and have responsibilities, family, job etc so we can't play these games".
Not everyone's life is constructed in such a way where they center their time around family or mowing the lawn.
And quite frankly, I have more time now then was I was younger and more money. If I need to clean my house or if I had a lawn, I'd hire someone to do it.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Once mmo's became mainstream it turned into toxic garbage. Back in the early days you were surprised if you ran into an ass hole. Today you expect it. The oly thing that's changed in mmo's is the graphics. We are all still playing EQ.
It had 12 classes, now some new games lucky to see 5 or 6.
Races, starting towns, spell variety, spell numbers, items, number of zones, monster variety, level design, etc etc etc. Even 3D swimmable water (looking at you ESO and FFXIX). I can't believe how lazy they are when it comes to comparing to EQ.
Old school literally let's you see gamers being charged more for less.
http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/447954/the-vanilla-everquest-comparison/p1
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
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Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/Agree... I think the key to the nostalgia, for me, was having little idea what kind of game I was about to experience. And then learning the ropes and getting by, and then finding out it gets deeper and deeper.
These days, by simple experience, you start a new MMO knowing how about 70% of it works. Discovering that remaining 30% is often either a short journey followed by that "Okay, now what?" feeling, or a long, tedious one where not much happens. GW2 was a bit like the latter when it launched.
And it's in that way(if not others that many would argue) that new MMO's are like single player games. Short learning curve, with the emphasis on story progression rather than radical character/gameplay development.
I still enjoy the newer games, and I still can't help but roll my eyes at the posts that say stuff like: "If an old school game were made today, it would decimate all". But I do think there's a market for old school games, and I'm glad there are some good teams out there trying to put them together. And ya know... I do wonder what pre-cu SWG would be like with a better interface and not having your character rubber-band all over the place...
Also, each class doesn't have to be mature at release or totally awesome with 100x abilities. Just give each a few abilities (MVP) and let the class grow with the game... this is another mistake MMORPGs make today.
I'd like to see the old school challenge of general content return.
As I understood it, the term "millenial" refers to anyone who came of age in the new millenium, so basically anyone born after 1982ish. The reason for the distinction is that this is the first generation to grow up with mobile phones and the internet and those 2 technologies dramatically changed the way we socialise and perceive the world.
What is the difference between a millenial and whatever you want to call this new group? I would have thought things would continue to get worse. I was born in 1985. I got my own PC with internet when I was 15, got my first mobile phone when I was 16. I am old enough to remember a time before these technologies but young enough that these technology have become a "required" part of my existence.
Given that these technologies are the cause of our instant gratification culture, I would have assumed that those who have never lived life without them (your new generation) would be in a worse situation than those who had a childhood free of them (like me).
You give one example, the community. Well the community was better, its hard to escape that fact compared to todays MMOs. The fact we mention it a lot does not make it less likely to be true.
See the community matters the most cause devs listen to them and change games to where we old school players don't like them at all. New games now have 0 immersion, solo, dumb and arrows pointing you where to go, level cap in a day or two not about the journey but just end game and all these are community issue.
Heck, you were born in 1985 so the idea of computer technology being at least a part of your life is still present.
I have memories of no cable TV, only a handful of channels, Certainly no atm's, no remote control, long lines at the bank on friday to get money, stores closed Sunday, no video games.
Being one of the few people on the Subway NOT looking at a phone is pretty funny.
So yeah, different generations have different expectations. I mean, I suppose I could be the generation who only had radio ...
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You aren't convinced. How about players who love pvp but don't want the world. An action game keeps them having their pvp fix. IF that convinces you, then you can see why the devs chase that.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I have been thinking for a couple minutes, and I may be the one....I mean sure graphics are better, but I don't even mind UO old school graphics...So while it is nicer, it wouldn't keep me from playing something (if it had everything else). I do not like instances, lfg tools, arenas, f2p, cash shops, name changes, and b2p (I like subs, it makes it easier to police your games community, f2p does bring more bodies, but more trash and problems along with it.). Which is a big reason I stopped playing EQ1, it was becoming too instanced. I mean there may be something that I am not thinking of, but for the most part, no 'innovation' in a mmorpg that I can think of this second, I would really miss, going back to a old school type mmorpg (that's why I am keeping a eye on Pantheon).
As you can see from my dislike list, I have gone a long time without a mmorpg at times, and Archeage (I am playing now), is what I thought the problems with f2p/cash shop would do to a game. I have gotten around the p2w, but doing so has made the game more of a job, playing 5 accounts (I use gold to pay for patron on all of them), both in EU/NA. I would much rather have 1 account, no labor (which gives rise to multiple accounts), and just play a game.
Here is an idea....stop worrying about what others like. Both you and them can have games you like., they are not mutually exclusive.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
May be you do. I certainly do not.
You used to be able to meet some random player out in the middle of nowhere and group up and work together, strike up a conversation and become friends. These days you either get yelled at for helping like you are trying to kills steal, or they just run off without even a FU after you help them.
Guilds in most MMOs just aren't the same as they were either, it's too political and people tend to stay in their own little cliches, even within the guild. It's just not the same anymore.
Yet here's a funny thing, we managed to put men on the moon 6 years before I received my first personal calculator as a graduation present, they must of had to row or something.
We live in an age of many wonders...
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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