I remember the days when you could buy a game, and be able to actually play it after you bought it.
I think that is unrelated to loot boxes.
I can play BF2 after buying it just fine. I can buy Metroid on SNES and play it just fine. The grey areas are real and should be recognized.
The game is designed with a 4k hr grind to unlock. It's not designed for you to simply buy the game and play it like games used to be. It's designed so you will always be thinking...."I could just buy this" because otherwise, most people will probably never see the full content.
And that is the grey area. And that is what should be discussed in my opinion. I don't think that because you used to be able to just purchase a game and play it without any further content that it makes it superior in some way.
There are many examples of games coming out with expansions in my youth that I personally thought completely worthwhile and fair. And there are examples of that today. Each version of monetization needs to be considered individually in my opinion.
Expansions are great when they are indicated. But DLC can also be nothing more than an excuse to milk consumers. The key is to know out which is which.
I am fairly certain that if I see new content that combines RNG with RMT, it's not going to make for a superior game experience.
so Cities Skylines has DLCs you can buy that expands the core game. You do not have to buy those DLCs and in fact with each DLC they create some of that content is free for the players regardless of if they buy a DLC or not and that content comes in the next automatic update.
Is that a bad use of DLC?
Is there RNG associated with something you have to purchase in hopes to get some form of desired content?
I thought the sub-conversation was strictly about DLCs. I was not aware that DLC had RNG, I dont play lootbox games
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I could see it harming B2P in the MMORPG industry, but Archlyte's post doesn't seem to be focused on just MMORPGs.
GW2 doesn't have loot boxes as far as I know and they make it work.
EDIT: Had a dumb moment there.
Like others have said GW2 has had loot chests from day one. They just don't make a big deal of it. You can sell/buy them on the auction house and keys do drop but are rare. They put most of their energy into advertising what's in the cash shop which includes loot box keys. The chests like most of the things in the shop are vanity items, so most loot chests contain weapons skins of some sort and not the kind that are really sought after, imo.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
It's not so much that children have access to credit cards. Its introducing them to a system that is gambling which they will accept as being the norm as they get older.
Maybe parents should properly assume their educational role, and:
1) don't give the kid a way to pay for stuff on the Internet.
2) explain why those boxes are bad.
But that would mean parents taking their responsibility towards their kids seriously... and those last generations prefer to blame others for their own failure to properly educate their kids.
Seems like you dont got kids
Seems like I may have been more successful at educating them than others, maybe because my own education predates the one of today's "I want it all now for free" generation?
I hope so
Its education, school, friends, love etc etc.
But they stay kids and will try things. And nowdays they are pretty smart on all the gadgets. And if they wont try anything stupid I would be confused. And im no talking about the "free stuff" but just in general. n1 and 2 just dont make sense.
"Smoking is bad you let them see nasty pictures, take away money. You think that will stop them if they really want it :O"
You're right, they are educated on technology. I have 4 kids + my niece and I can count on one hand the number of issues we've had to deal with. Furthermore, I can attest that my kids do, openly, identify the lootbox mechanic and they actually talk about how it's not worth it to them. I think that if you teach your kids the value of money, it really isn't an issue. If your kids think an ATM is just a machine that gives out free money, then may you have more of a problem.
I think that putting the issue onto kids is really irresponsible because you're essentially saying that kids are retarded and can't think for themselves. I clearly remember asking my 8 year old (at the time) whether he REALLY wanted to spend $10 on something in a mobile game, because he might not get what he wants, and he thought about it and said no. If these people are really worried about the children, then take the money they plan on spending on a team to implement restrictions and, instead, create a team to implement an educational program for youth. It's probably much more worthwhile.
Why would you need a supplemental education plan? These are the types of things that can and should be included in core education curriculums. Teaching the value of money is much more useful to teenagers/young adults than teaching having them memorize a friggin' periodic table that will always be around for easy reference anytime they would realistically use it.
To be clear: I'm all for educating in the sciences. I'm against having kids perform rote memorization for the sake of rote memorization.
Like others have said GW2 has had loot chests from day one. They just don't make a big deal of it. You can sell/buy them on the auction house and keys do drop but are rare. They put most of their energy into advertising what's in the cash shop which includes loot box keys. The chests like most of the things in the shop are vanity items, so most loot chests contain weapons skins of some sort and not the kind that are really sought after, imo.
Most loot boxes contains boosts, dyes, minis and ticket scraps (10 to get a ticket, you can buy skins for 1-5 tickets). They usually have current skins that drop but they are far from "usual".
You might certainly get lucky and find a pretty skin in one but anyways have they little impact on the game if any. Particularly since you get the same boosts as login rewards and I have tons of those lying in my bank, I rarely bother to use them besides my free birthday & celebration boosters (got loads of them as well).
There is really little point in buying GW2s loot boxes, it is more an annoyance to get those useless chests as loot. if you take 2 players that played a while and 1 have bought 50 keys while the other zero you would not notice any difference, not even if the player not buying get zero keys dropped and skip the story the rewards keys and never get one for 100% exploration. I would not trade my legendary dagger for 1000 keys.
The mount thing is slightly worse since you actually can see it but at least they make zero difference in the game.
If EAs loot boxes were the same I don't think EU would be upset about them. I would oppose the keys if I bothered to care but they are just so pointless.
Belgium didnt find loot boxes to be gambling, or to be regulated under gambling laws. They recommend more transparency of expected results and better labeling on the product.
It's not so much that children have access to credit cards. Its introducing them to a system that is gambling which they will accept as being the norm as they get older.
Maybe parents should properly assume their educational role, and:
1) don't give the kid a way to pay for stuff on the Internet.
2) explain why those boxes are bad.
But that would mean parents taking their responsibility towards their kids seriously... and those last generations prefer to blame others for their own failure to properly educate their kids.
Seems like you dont got kids
Seems like I may have been more successful at educating them than others, maybe because my own education predates the one of today's "I want it all now for free" generation?
I hope so
Its education, school, friends, love etc etc.
But they stay kids and will try things. And nowdays they are pretty smart on all the gadgets. And if they wont try anything stupid I would be confused. And im no talking about the "free stuff" but just in general. n1 and 2 just dont make sense.
"Smoking is bad you let them see nasty pictures, take away money. You think that will stop them if they really want it :O"
You're right, they are educated on technology. I have 4 kids + my niece and I can count on one hand the number of issues we've had to deal with. Furthermore, I can attest that my kids do, openly, identify the lootbox mechanic and they actually talk about how it's not worth it to them. I think that if you teach your kids the value of money, it really isn't an issue. If your kids think an ATM is just a machine that gives out free money, then may you have more of a problem.
I think that putting the issue onto kids is really irresponsible because you're essentially saying that kids are retarded and can't think for themselves. I clearly remember asking my 8 year old (at the time) whether he REALLY wanted to spend $10 on something in a mobile game, because he might not get what he wants, and he thought about it and said no. If these people are really worried about the children, then take the money they plan on spending on a team to implement restrictions and, instead, create a team to implement an educational program for youth. It's probably much more worthwhile.
Good points, I remember there was/is an issue with college kids being totally unable to handle finances because their parents managed everything for them. Any problems ended up with a cell phone call to their parents to deal with it. Teaching them the value of money at a young age is key and a lot of money management professional make sure to begin training their kids early in life about such things. Some people with money management problems even hide what's going on from their kids, leaving them to figure out things for themselves.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
It's not so much that children have access to credit cards. Its introducing them to a system that is gambling which they will accept as being the norm as they get older.
Maybe parents should properly assume their educational role, and:
1) don't give the kid a way to pay for stuff on the Internet.
2) explain why those boxes are bad.
But that would mean parents taking their responsibility towards their kids seriously... and those last generations prefer to blame others for their own failure to properly educate their kids.
Seems like you dont got kids
Seems like I may have been more successful at educating them than others, maybe because my own education predates the one of today's "I want it all now for free" generation?
wait.. I thought we were in the generation of "I want it all now and I'm willing to pay lots of money for it in a loot box". Isnt this what the article is about?
This guy probably thinks grinding in games is "work" and needs to be rewarded commensurate with his effort. I prefer to spend my hours working a real job which affords me less time, but also the disposable income to not give a fuck how many loot boxes I buy. That way, during the 30 mins of time that I have to play every night before I go to sleep, I can still smoke people like you that "worked hard" at it.
Comments
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
To be clear: I'm all for educating in the sciences. I'm against having kids perform rote memorization for the sake of rote memorization.
You might certainly get lucky and find a pretty skin in one but anyways have they little impact on the game if any. Particularly since you get the same boosts as login rewards and I have tons of those lying in my bank, I rarely bother to use them besides my free birthday & celebration boosters (got loads of them as well).
There is really little point in buying GW2s loot boxes, it is more an annoyance to get those useless chests as loot. if you take 2 players that played a while and 1 have bought 50 keys while the other zero you would not notice any difference, not even if the player not buying get zero keys dropped and skip the story the rewards keys and never get one for 100% exploration. I would not trade my legendary dagger for 1000 keys.
The mount thing is slightly worse since you actually can see it but at least they make zero difference in the game.
If EAs loot boxes were the same I don't think EU would be upset about them. I would oppose the keys if I bothered to care but they are just so pointless.
Here is the actual documentation:
https://ds1.static.rtbf.be/uploader/pdf/d/d/b/rtbfinfo_5c742f9b8996afe274e39ad9b4acb453.pdf
Belgium didnt find loot boxes to be gambling, or to be regulated under gambling laws. They recommend more transparency of expected results and better labeling on the product.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
This guy probably thinks grinding in games is "work" and needs to be rewarded commensurate with his effort. I prefer to spend my hours working a real job which affords me less time, but also the disposable income to not give a fuck how many loot boxes I buy. That way, during the 30 mins of time that I have to play every night before I go to sleep, I can still smoke people like you that "worked hard" at it.
I smile before i go to sleep...