This is why we need sanctions against lootboxes, cashgrabs and crowfunded. These companies need to be held accountable and if the game isn't made in a deadline up to par on their feature list then they pay back their consumers.
I couldnt disagree more.
First off crowdfunding has created some of my favorite games second off, we can sanction things that are literally a consumer choice. For the most part if something is of bad design then people will not buy it, if it is good design they will. Generally speaking and for the most part, dollars do equal votes.
the better option for you is to not buy games that have lootboxes, ignore crowdfunding and not worry about the well being of others in that respect because they are responsible for themselves.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
This is why we need sanctions against lootboxes, cashgrabs and crowfunded. These companies need to be held accountable and if the game isn't made in a deadline up to par on their feature list then they pay back their consumers.
You DO realize that a lot of crowdfunded game project would not exist as a normal game project funded by a publisher, do you not ? That they often involve new ways of creating games, new technologies, new ideas - which is all notoriously hard to predict in a project plan ? Often there is no way to accurately predict a fixed deadline. That is why a lot of backers of crowdfunded game projects tell the devs to start working and finish "when its done". It all comes down to trust - if you personnaly think that the team is good and trustworthy enough to give you what you want. If your personal assessment is negative - do not give money for that project. And keep in mind - YOUR personal assessment and that of another person may differ.
I have supported a dozen crowdfunding projects and always got excellent games (e.g. Wasteland2) out of it (or am satisfied with the progress of the games still in development). I agree that sanctions against proven scams are necessary. I would disagree when someone asks for general sanctions against any and all crowdfunded projects.
Yes, but in Entropia the land actually exists as more than a concept on paper. You can walk to it, see it, build stuff on it, etc. With Star Citizen it only exists as a concept written on a piece of paper somewhere, much like many of the ships people have purchased. That's a huge difference.
You seem to ignore a few hundred videos and screenshots this week that shows people doing things on the surfaces of moons and planets in Star Citizen Alpha 3.0. You can find quite a few of those in the mmorpg.com subforum for Star Citizen.
And surface of moons and planets is ***drumroll*** LAND.
You can see it. Walk on it. Drive on it. Find stuff on it. Carry cargo over it. Do crashcar derbies on it. Race over it. Build stuff out of boxes on it. Drop rovers from orbit on it and explore the crash site.
Seems like the boots of my spacesuit leave dusty footprints in your "piece of concept paper".
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I have a bridge to sell, I have pics, vids of it and I need to sell it fast so that is why its cheap
Please write articles more frequently!
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With a look at the CIG crowdfunding counter ... there seem to be quite a few people saying yes.
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and some asking a refund
Correct.
Estimates by backers put the level of refunds at around 0.5 % (after 5 years of development).
Which is approx the same order of magnitude that Chris Roberts mentioned 2 years ago.
There are other estimates from well known sources - you can do your own estimates.
Compare it to a growth of number of paying backers by a factor of
approx. 20 (compared to numbers at the end of Kickstarter) and growth of number of "Star Citizens" by a factor of 55,95 (34397 --> 1,924,605) since Nov 2012.
With a look at the CIG crowdfunding counter ... there seem to be quite a few people saying yes.
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No doubt.
But lots of people trusted Bernie too for a lot longer than they trusted Chris.
Buyer beware.
But in contrast to the Chris Roberts case investment experts (e.g. Harry Markopolos) warned about Bernie as early as 1999.
The people warning the world about Chris Roberts are some of the worst nutcases and trolls the internet can offer (with their own personal description being either "Internet Warlord" or "He's Prim, He's Proper, He's the Serial Killer Next Door.")
My personal opinion is that these two cases are NOT comparable.
With a look at the CIG crowdfunding counter ... there seem to be quite a few people saying yes.
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No doubt.
But lots of people trusted Bernie too for a lot longer than they trusted Chris.
Buyer beware.
But in contrast to the Chris Roberts case investment experts (e.g. Harry Markopolos) warned about Bernie as early as 1999.
The people warning the world about Chris Roberts are some of the worst nutcases and trolls the internet can offer (with their own personal description being either "Internet Warlord" or "He's Prim, He's Proper, He's the Serial Killer Next Door.")
My personal opinion is that these two cases are NOT comparable.
Have fun
Hey, I was warning people about their inflated expectations of a Chris Roberts production back at the time of the kickstarter. Because, you know, I talked to folks who'd worked with him back in his Origin days. While Roberts undoubtedly wants to make the Best Damn Space Game Ever, he's absolutely not the guy you want in charge.
You know, selling land like they are leads me to one of two conclusions: They don't really need the money, and are just being greedy asshats. Or they do need the funds, in which case they've already pissed away too much of the money they've raised.
Given that the 'disorganized boss and terrible project manager' hat is pretty much nailed to Roberts' head, I am inclined towards the second idea.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
oh man they actually found a way to make more money off this game without actually releasing the game... genius i honestly didn't think it was possible
Honestly, why are people bagging on the developers? If you put out your hand, and people but money in it...most people will take it. Five to six years, 100s of millions of $$, and you got a demo where you can walk around. It's pretty obvious. You can't even accuse him of scamming, because he'll say they tried and that's what they came up with, meanwhile paying himself a huge salary.
If you were a known liar, made promises no way you can keep, contradict yourself every other sentence, and are basically a child...and people offer to make you the President of the US, you would refuse?
Honestly, why are people bagging on the developers? If you put out your hand, and people but money in it...most people will take it. Five to six years, 100s of millions of $$, and you got a demo where you can walk around. It's pretty obvious. You can't even accuse him of scamming, because he'll say they tried and that's what they came up with, meanwhile paying himself a huge salary.
If you were a known liar, made promises no way you can keep, contradict yourself every other sentence, and are basically a child...and people offer to make you the President of the US, you would refuse?
Neither can really be blamed in this case.
Great marketing gets people every time. They do a really good job of marketing their concepts and making sure they have backup to fuel the fan club. No way would I think about spending thousands for a game, especially a game that's not officially launched yet. That doesn't bother people as they want to live the dream, I wish them well and that they don't borrow money to do it like one person said they did.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Honestly, why are people bagging on the developers? If you put out your hand, and people but money in it...most people will take it. Five to six years, 100s of millions of $$, and you got a demo where you can walk around. It's pretty obvious. You can't even accuse him of scamming, because he'll say they tried and that's what they came up with, meanwhile paying himself a huge salary.
If you were a known liar, made promises no way you can keep, contradict yourself every other sentence, and are basically a child...and people offer to make you the President of the US, you would refuse?
Honestly, why are people bagging on the developers? If you put out your hand, and people but money in it...most people will take it. Five to six years, 100s of millions of $$, and you got a demo where you can walk around. It's pretty obvious. You can't even accuse him of scamming, because he'll say they tried and that's what they came up with, meanwhile paying himself a huge salary.
If you were a known liar, made promises no way you can keep, contradict yourself every other sentence, and are basically a child...and people offer to make you the President of the US, you would refuse?
Neither can really be blamed in this case.
CR already said the game is basically done.
Wow! I must have somehow missed this last part. So the release date is?
The really telling thing is how EARLY they did this land sale. There's so much that's ridiculously undecided about land (as Erillion so helpfully pointed out) so why release this land sale so early when none of the concepts are even remotely programmed? And yet they're selling it NOW instead of waiting to sell it after they've at least managed to get it started up in an alpha build to see exactly what impact it could have on their network, considering the huge effect something as complex as what they're touting in the fact would have when given a permanent spot in a persistent world, more so when they haven't even set an upper limit on how much land in total they're going to sell.
As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, that can really only mean one of two things. That they're greedy for money, or that they're desperate for money (and I agree that it's likely the latter). Otherwise, what the heck is the rush? If they weren't either greedy for money or desperate for it, they'd wait until they had more finalized about land before they started selling it. Selling it too soon opens them up to all sorts of obligations and restrictions now placed upon their design possibilities and network that they wouldn't have had if they just waited a bit, and they would have gotten the money anyways if they waited (perhaps they would have gotten even MORE money because by then they'd have something tangible to offer)
Instead they are clearly in a rush to get money NOW for whatever reason, none of which can be good.
The really telling thing is how EARLY they did this land sale. There's so much that's ridiculously undecided about land (as Erillion so helpfully pointed out) so why release this land sale so early when none of the concepts are even remotely programmed? And yet they're selling it NOW instead of waiting to sell it after they've at least managed to get it started up in an alpha build to see exactly what impact it could have on their network, considering the huge effect something as complex as what they're touting in the fact would have when given a permanent spot in a persistent world, more so when they haven't even set an upper limit on how much land in total they're going to sell.
As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, that can really only mean one of two things. That they're greedy for money, or that they're desperate for money (and I agree that it's likely the latter). Otherwise, what the heck is the rush? If they weren't either greedy for money or desperate for it, they'd wait until they had more finalized about land before they started selling it. Selling it too soon opens them up to all sorts of obligations and restrictions now placed upon their design possibilities and network that they wouldn't have had if they just waited a bit, and they would have gotten the money anyways if they waited (perhaps they would have gotten even MORE money because by then they'd have something tangible to offer)
Instead they are clearly in a rush to get money NOW for whatever reason, none of which can be good.
They are selling land claims now because the concept was introduced with the "Pioneer" base building ship (which includes a land claim certificate). Seems like there was sufficient interest for those certifications to offer them separately.
Comments
First off crowdfunding has created some of my favorite games
second off, we can sanction things that are literally a consumer choice.
For the most part if something is of bad design then people will not buy it, if it is good design they will. Generally speaking and for the most part, dollars do equal votes.
the better option for you is to not buy games that have lootboxes, ignore crowdfunding and not worry about the well being of others in that respect because they are responsible for themselves.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Twitter Facebook RantOnRob Youtube
If your personal assessment is negative - do not give money for that project. And keep in mind - YOUR personal assessment and that of another person may differ.
I have supported a dozen crowdfunding projects and always got excellent games (e.g. Wasteland2) out of it (or am satisfied with the progress of the games still in development). I agree that sanctions against proven scams are necessary. I would disagree when someone asks for general sanctions against any and all crowdfunded projects.
Have fun
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
While i personally consider CIG trustworthy.
Keep your bridge and ...
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Have fun
btw cig is as trustworthy as a politician
But lots of people trusted Bernie too for a lot longer than they trusted Chris.
Buyer beware.
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Estimates by backers put the level of refunds at around 0.5 % (after 5 years of development).
Which is approx the same order of magnitude that Chris Roberts mentioned 2 years ago.
There are other estimates from well known sources - you can do your own estimates.
Compare it to a growth of number of paying backers by a factor of approx. 20 (compared to numbers at the end of Kickstarter) and growth of number of "Star Citizens" by a factor of 55,95 (34397 --> 1,924,605) since Nov 2012.
Have fun
The people warning the world about Chris Roberts are some of the worst nutcases and trolls the internet can offer (with their own personal description being either "Internet Warlord" or "He's Prim, He's Proper, He's the Serial Killer Next Door.")
My personal opinion is that these two cases are NOT comparable.
Have fun
You know, selling land like they are leads me to one of two conclusions: They don't really need the money, and are just being greedy asshats. Or they do need the funds, in which case they've already pissed away too much of the money they've raised.
Given that the 'disorganized boss and terrible project manager' hat is pretty much nailed to Roberts' head, I am inclined towards the second idea.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
MAGA
If you were a known liar, made promises no way you can keep, contradict yourself every other sentence, and are basically a child...and people offer to make you the President of the US, you would refuse?
Neither can really be blamed in this case.
If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.
Have fun
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
Land speculation.....
CR already said the game is basically done.
As pointed out elsewhere in this thread, that can really only mean one of two things. That they're greedy for money, or that they're desperate for money (and I agree that it's likely the latter). Otherwise, what the heck is the rush? If they weren't either greedy for money or desperate for it, they'd wait until they had more finalized about land before they started selling it. Selling it too soon opens them up to all sorts of obligations and restrictions now placed upon their design possibilities and network that they wouldn't have had if they just waited a bit, and they would have gotten the money anyways if they waited (perhaps they would have gotten even MORE money because by then they'd have something tangible to offer)
Instead they are clearly in a rush to get money NOW for whatever reason, none of which can be good.
Have fun
Have fun