What does AoC bring to the table?

CallsignVega

I've been reading over the FAQ and watching some videos. Could someone explain to my why this game is hyped so much? I don't see anything new being brought to the table, just looks like a 2019 version of Guild Wars 2. 

Sovrath

CallsignVega said:

I've been reading over the FAQ and watching some videos. Could someone explain to my why this game is hyped so much? I don't see anything new being brought to the table, just looks like a 2019 version of Guild Wars 2. 

I think people need to let go of "new brought to the table".

Besides the fact that there really isn't anything "new" (something like seven story plots right?) it's more how something is said than what is being said as that is the part that's refreshing.

If you are looking for something "new" then you are always going to be looking.

It's a "new" world (though I'm sure it has similarities to any number of other fictional places - or real), players can create their own populations which then unlock world events or world  resources. They are trying to make the world more dynamic in response to what players do. Might not be a "new" idea but the devil is in the details.

Dvora

Sovrath is mostly right that there isn't much new anyone can bring to an MMO.  Sadly though there are many awesome & immersive features and mechanics from older games that for some reason have just went by the wayside instead of being built upon in later game generations.

Simple things like in UO where you can drop things on the ground, hide a stash of goods behind a tree.  Stack barrels or other things to guide or block mobs or players.  This particular type of feature was indeed a load on the server but I have a hard time believing that it should really be an issue considering how far tech has come since then.  3d rather than top down views could make it worse as you can see further, but still, tech has come so far and I'd think this would only be an issue for weak PC's and during large scale battles etc.

You could also do things like lure mobs into a gate to your (non-instanced) house or elsewhere.  In general it was a much more interactive world, despite old grpx.  Instead games have gone to prettier backdrops, while eliminating the interactivity almost entirely.

Galadourn

well, "new" isn't necessarily for the better, see what happened to music with avant-garde...

Sovrath

Galadourn said:

well, "new" isn't necessarily for the better, see what happened to music with avant-garde...

lol I like atonal/12 tone music (which really isn't new anymore) but it's a good point.

CallsignVega

Ok maybe new isn't the catch-all term I was thinking of. Besides good graphics, I don't see anything particularly interesting about the game. Maybe I am missing something. This just appears to be themepark #01190.  

Po_gg

What AoC brings to the table? Well, for a start a new server https://www.mmorpg.com/age-of-conan-unchained/news/funcom-to-launch-limited-time-saga-servers-in-2018-1000046834






Wait...


(and yep, what Sovrath said. Ashes is the new overhyped fad, there is always one, just seek back the articles even on this very site. "ArcheAge will be the new bomb, sandpark, what an idea!" or "BDO will be the new trendsetter king of the genre, mark our word!"
Some people always need something new, a fresh hype train they can ride, or else they will get bored.)

Galadourn

Sovrath said:

Galadourn said:

well, "new" isn't necessarily for the better, see what happened to music with avant-garde...

lol I like atonal/12 tone music (which really isn't new anymore) but it's a good point.

you do? yikes!

Maurgrim

CallsignVega said:

Ok maybe new isn't the catch-all term I was thinking of. Besides good graphics, I don't see anything particularly interesting about the game. Maybe I am missing something. This just appears to be themepark #01190.  

Then I take it you haven't read much into the game after all, you just want people to write for you so you don't have to do the research yourself.

Shadanwolf

I just wish it was an mmog.

cochs

Dvora said:

Sovrath is mostly right that there isn't much new anyone can bring to an MMO.  Sadly though there are many awesome & immersive features and mechanics from older games that for some reason have just went by the wayside instead of being built upon in later game generations.

Simple things like in UO where you can drop things on the ground, hide a stash of goods behind a tree.  Stack barrels or other things to guide or block mobs or players.  This particular type of feature was indeed a load on the server but I have a hard time believing that it should really be an issue considering how far tech has come since then.  3d rather than top down views could make it worse as you can see further, but still, tech has come so far and I'd think this would only be an issue for weak PC's and during large scale battles etc.

You could also do things like lure mobs into a gate to your (non-instanced) house or elsewhere.  In general it was a much more interactive world, despite old grpx.  Instead games have gone to prettier backdrops, while eliminating the interactivity almost entirely.

There are quite a few little things that games just punt on because they are hard or add a lot of time.  Like vehicles, ships for instance.  Players moving on moving platforms isn't easy.

Most game engines are still using old terrain tech also, it's not easy to create worlds where you can really mold them, because studios have to create new tech in that area from scratch pretty much.

Anything physics.  Games fake physics all the time and avoid stuff that gets close to realistic physics.  Because the game engines only support realistic physics which is too unpredictable to use for a lot of stuff.  New physics engines that are physics 'like' but predictable aren't really a thing yet.

Lots of AI stuff the industry hasn't explored yet.  Not making stuff smarter but using it to make worlds feel more alive.  Letting npc's actually be part of the world, compete with players for resources in some ways, etc..

Or just taking an existing thing and evolving it.  One recent example that stood out to me was the building system in Fortnite.  Compare that to the last 10 mmo's that had any kind of building, and where most of them just kept making it more and more complex.  Fortnite took a pretty cool idea that simplified building and at least for me made it more fun.

jahlon

Ashes brings several things to the table.

Let's start with the mindset and philosophy of the game.   They are going with the sub-model with a cosmetic cash-shop.   A lot of people are up in arms about the combination.   The sub-model keeps the game development on a steady expected and predictable income table and the cosmetic cash shop keeps the game viable to more players by not having a box cost for the game and with it being cosmetics only, it means that there is no P2W unless you think looking cool is winning.

Knowing out in front that there will be no P2W, no RNG boxes, none of the things that make you want to make the joke that the best weapons are Visa and Mastercard, the game set up from the very beginning is very solid.

Next, Ashes is bringing something unique to the MMO and that is their node system.  No two servers are going to look the same unless their populations level the exact same nodes in an identical fashion.   More players level in ZOI 1, then ZOI 1's node will level up faster.    On the other server, more people level in ZOI 6, then that node will level up faster.   Compound this by the fact that the race that contributes the most XP to the node's development will influence the style and look of the buildings (they take on that race's features and architecture).   

Next their Class system is unique.  You pick a single Archetype and it locks you into that choice, but then you have your choice of 8 different classes based on which secondary archetype you take.  Each of these secondary archetypes put spins and tweaks on your abilities, so instead of picking and choosing skills from both, you continue to only choose from your primary pool of skills with unique flavors.   

Then they have their PvP system.   The rolling PvP zones around caravans is different as compared to say Archeage where a person moving goods is safe while in "safe" zones.    Having weekly sieges around the 5 Castles and the 3 nodes that support the Castle will give the PvPers things to go after, having 5 potential Metropolis around the world will be massive projects for groups to understake, and they can be brought under siege as well, as well as any Node above level 3. 

We have only the rough sketches of the four different political systems of the nodes, and we know nothing about the Religions and how they will affect characters.   

Finally, what does Ashes bring that other games haven't?  Thus far it delivers.

I just did a video that shows the development of Crowfall, Chronicles of Elyria and Ashes and how Crowfall and CoE are way behind schedule and have blown every deadline but AoC is right on track.   That can be seen at my YouTube in my signature or right here to make your life easy.

Wizardry

Why do games continue to ignore FFXI's best class design and give us weaker options?

Locking a main is not a realistic ideal.Secondary classes are because it is like in real life,you are always going to be better at one thing than another,so the secondary should be a tad weaker,hence why the FFXI model of 1/2 the main worked brilliantly.
Also one of the main features of multi class is that it gives players MANY more days/weeks/years of leveling and improving their character  aka "longevity".

I am very skeptical of a node system,i rather see direct player impact doing similar.Example the more players trade to a npc his prices change both upwards and downwards depending on the types of items it buys/sells.This is called "depth" gives the npc's more meaning instead of the typical placeholder for a quest.

Nodes will function more like automation as well i am skeptical on  their ability to create a plausible result.I will again use an example,if MANY players are say harvesting,then the resources should become scarce,perhaps more valuable,this leads to a whole other design problem,inventory space/hoarding/maximum amount of resources allowed from a zone/how much can players carry at once etc etc,in other words "DEPTH" and it is not easy to just whip a game together with simple ideas like "automation".

I will leave it at that since posts get too long.I like to stress a main word i want/need to see in a game and a phrase that Pantheon lead used >>>"makes sense".I want to see ideas that make sense aka plausible realism.I do not liek a game that looks like C+++ code and NOT a plausible world.

Wizardry

An example of how NOT to do it >>BDO.
We shouldn't be seeing lines flying through the air connected to nodes,immersion gone,we shouldn't see auto pathing nor auto fish botting,nor should we have combo button presses to perform ridiculous looking spin o rama/somersault combo attacks,BDO does EVERYTHING wrong in game design,that sort of stuff turns me right off.

Sovrath

Galadourn said:

Sovrath said:

Galadourn said:

well, "new" isn't necessarily for the better, see what happened to music with avant-garde...

lol I like atonal/12 tone music (which really isn't new anymore) but it's a good point.

you do? yikes!

Yeah, you have to listen to it differently than other music. In a sense  (and kind of on topic) you have to take it for what it is, not what you think it should be or think it should have.

People listen to 12 tone/dissonant/aleatoric, etc music based on how they are used to listening to music; they look for melody and familar harmonic progression. Instead of putting the sounds in a different context and listening for events and gestures which is what the music is "more about".

Same with any game, approaching a game with pre-conceived notions (or anything in life) is failure from the start. Nothing can ever live up to something it never aimed to achieve. Just take the games for what they ARE trying to achieve.

Octagon7711

CallsignVega said:

I've been reading over the FAQ and watching some videos. Could someone explain to my why this game is hyped so much? I don't see anything new being brought to the table, just looks like a 2019 version of Guild Wars 2. 

If this game does play like a 2019 version of GW2 I would invest in it as I love GW2.   Hows the alpha coming along?

time007

i honestly havent heard or seen much about this game. id be interested to see it in some youtube vids tho

waynejr2

Aoc = age of conan to me.....

Renoaku

Yeah it does kinda look like Guild Wars 2, but GW2 is a failure.

GW2 Could be great if it had things like Location of BOSS on world map with timers (I've asked for this 3 years now) no change.

Better Character Creation ( Remove the pay 2 enjoy) sell an item that gives optional subscription like in Black Desert.)

Player Housing if you can even call it that is horrid in Guild Wars 2.

I think that Ashes OF Creation will solve these three issues, now Guild Wars 1 was absolutely great.

Sovrath

Wizardry said:

An example of how NOT to do it >>BDO.
We shouldn't be seeing lines flying through the air connected to nodes,immersion gone,we shouldn't see auto pathing nor auto fish botting,nor should we have combo button presses to perform ridiculous looking spin o rama/somersault combo attacks,BDO does EVERYTHING wrong in game design,that sort of stuff turns me right off.

I'll agree with the "lines" and that's about it. Great combat. I want more of that. As far as "ridiclous looking spin o ram/somerssault combo attacks", if you play a game based of fighting games that's what you will get. If one plays a game, say like life is feudal then you will get that type of combat, "more realistic".

Has nothing to do with "doing it wrong" and everything to do with knowing what type of game they are making.

Slapshot1188

It brings some MLM concepts to the genre.  That's it's main invention. Pays people 15% of what their recruits buy in real cash...

CallsignVega

coretex666 said:

I have not yet seen anything about this game that would make me excited about it.

Precisely. 

Tiamat64

Star Citizen and Chronicles of Elyria made impossible promises that got a bunch of people to give them money.

Ashes of Creation basically just said "A game!" and some people gave them money.

....sheesh.  Some people confuse me.

Galadourn

well, tbf AoC didn't just say "a game", they also showed it in its early stages

Sovrath

Tiamat64 said:

Star Citizen and Chronicles of Elyria made impossible promises that got a bunch of people to give them money.

Ashes of Creation basically just said "A game!" and some people gave them money.

....sheesh.  Some people confuse me.

There isn't anything confusing about it.

Star Citizen and Chronicles of Elyria want to be ambitious games. Something that most developers shy away from given the history of online games and the business that supports them.

This excites people who hope that in truth an ambitious game can be made as well as be successful.

Ashes of Creation didn't make pie in the sky promises but they did show exciting video/game play (enough to show they can at least put "something together"), as well as stating that their world will act/react to what players do in the game. Something that also excites players as many mmorpg's are rather static or are limited to how "dynamic" they can be.

Can these games actually achieve thier promises? Who knows. But when no one is making games that diverge from the boilerplate creations we've had in the past, some people are willing to give money for the possibility of something more.

Nothing confusing at all.

Kyleran

jahlon said:

Ashes brings several things to the table.

Let's start with the mindset and philosophy of the game.   They are going with the sub-model with a cosmetic cash-shop.   A lot of people are up in arms about the combination.   The sub-model keeps the game development on a steady expected and predictable income table and the cosmetic cash shop keeps the game viable to more players by not having a box cost for the game and with it being cosmetics only, it means that there is no P2W unless you think looking cool is winning.

Knowing out in front that there will be no P2W, no RNG boxes, none of the things that make you want to make the joke that the best weapons are Visa and Mastercard, the game set up from the very beginning is very solid.

Next, Ashes is bringing something unique to the MMO and that is their node system.  No two servers are going to look the same unless their populations level the exact same nodes in an identical fashion.   More players level in ZOI 1, then ZOI 1's node will level up faster.    On the other server, more people level in ZOI 6, then that node will level up faster.   Compound this by the fact that the race that contributes the most XP to the node's development will influence the style and look of the buildings (they take on that race's features and architecture).   

Next their Class system is unique.  You pick a single Archetype and it locks you into that choice, but then you have your choice of 8 different classes based on which secondary archetype you take.  Each of these secondary archetypes put spins and tweaks on your abilities, so instead of picking and choosing skills from both, you continue to only choose from your primary pool of skills with unique flavors.   

Then they have their PvP system.   The rolling PvP zones around caravans is different as compared to say Archeage where a person moving goods is safe while in "safe" zones.    Having weekly sieges around the 5 Castles and the 3 nodes that support the Castle will give the PvPers things to go after, having 5 potential Metropolis around the world will be massive projects for groups to understake, and they can be brought under siege as well, as well as any Node above level 3. 

We have only the rough sketches of the four different political systems of the nodes, and we know nothing about the Religions and how they will affect characters.   

Finally, what does Ashes bring that other games haven't?  Thus far it delivers.

I just did a video that shows the development of Crowfall, Chronicles of Elyria and Ashes and how Crowfall and CoE are way behind schedule and have blown every deadline but AoC is right on track.   That can be seen at my YouTube in my signature or right here to make your life easy.

Funny thing about Ashes, they are hitting every deadline and moving at an almost impossibly fast pace when literally every other game under development out there faces challenges. 

Either this is either the best team ever assembled in MMORPG history...or we're being fed a line of bull.....