The features aren't really new and that's not necessarily a bad thing. What the game is trying to do, in my opinion, is bring another PVP sandbox to the genre along the lines of ArcheAge, BDO, and maybe some of EVE Online.
However, we've seen that these games ultimately fail or have limited interest to the core MMO lover. Most MMORPG players like story, lore, and PVE. So, it is a bold move to make a title like this.
When I say "most" I am using success as a gauge here. World of Warcraft, Elder Scrolls Online, Guild Wars 2, games like that, make a lot of profit. EVE is currently struggling, ArcheAge has been relaunched five times with no success, and BDO is heading down a bad road.
With this kind of games that offer (on paper) meaningful pvp and action (oh good old gw2 how did you manage to screw wvw so much) I look at the class system and how fluid the gameplay is. It's pointless to play a brilliantly conceived game if I can't find a single build I like.
I didn't hear of this game up untill now and wow. Sounds good. The class system looks (on paper) really great. If the rogue has so many alternative builds hopefully there will be at least a fun one.
Too bad all these supposedly great game will all come out almost at the same time killing each other since they all aim at the same type of players, while we've been here for years without a half decent title
Another game that everyone is excited for, but will ultimately flop due to their sub model, unless they pull some magic tricks at the end to try and save it. MMOs are hostile territory these days when you think you are gonna get away with charging a sub. It's not WoW and and it's not Final Fantasy, it's just an indie MMO. Maybe they won't mind having less than 1k playing within one year time. Seen this so many times here, over hype under deliver. You don't even need to be psychic to see it.
I'm sure someone will reply and call me a hater or troll, and "what do you know?" Well.......I've have literally played well over 300 MMOs f2p/b2p/p2p, seen a lot come and go, hype build, then die out. This one brings nothing exciting or new to the table, it's just another MMO promising stuff like so many others before it, so yeah it will most likely flop. If EQ Next was never able to happen, this game will surely not live up to all the expectations placed upon it.
Another game that everyone is excited for, but will ultimately flop due to their sub model, unless they pull some magic tricks at the end to try and save it. MMOs are hostile territory these days when you think you are gonna get away with charging a sub. It's not WoW and and it's not Final Fantasy, it's just an indie MMO. Maybe they won't mind having less than 1k playing within one year time. Seen this so many times here, over hype under deliver. You don't even need to be psychic to see it.
I'm sure someone will reply and call me a hater or troll, and "what do you know?" Well.......I've have literally played well over 300 MMOs f2p/b2p/p2p, seen a lot come and go, hype build, then die out. This one brings nothing exciting or new to the table, it's just another MMO promising stuff like so many others before it, so yeah it will most likely flop. If EQ Next was never able to happen, this game will surely not live up to all the expectations placed upon it.
Many of us have played about as many MMOs, my dude. All I can tell you is that I refuse to play any f2p MMOs with their pay to win garbage. A lot of people are just waiting for another good p2p MMO. This one also has the benefit of not having a box price like most of the previous p2p MMOs.
The only real question we should be concerned with is: will the game be good? If its a good game then people will play it. The pay model wont matter. Most of the top streamers on twitch have already backed this game. If they all play it and enjoy it, people will jump on. If it sucks at either early, mid, or end game then it will die and probably be forced to go f2p.
Sovrath is mostly right that there isn't much new anyone can bring to an MMO. Sadly though there are many awesome & immersive features and mechanics from older games that for some reason have just went by the wayside instead of being built upon in later game generations.
Simple things like in UO where you can drop things on the ground, hide a stash of goods behind a tree. Stack barrels or other things to guide or block mobs or players. This particular type of feature was indeed a load on the server but I have a hard time believing that it should really be an issue considering how far tech has come since then. 3d rather than top down views could make it worse as you can see further, but still, tech has come so far and I'd think this would only be an issue for weak PC's and during large scale battles etc.
You could also do things like lure mobs into a gate to your (non-instanced) house or elsewhere. In general it was a much more interactive world, despite old grpx. Instead games have gone to prettier backdrops, while eliminating the interactivity almost entirely.
There are quite a few little things that games just punt on because they are hard or add a lot of time. Like vehicles, ships for instance. Players moving on moving platforms isn't easy.
Most game engines are still using old terrain tech also, it's not easy to create worlds where you can really mold them, because studios have to create new tech in that area from scratch pretty much.
Anything physics. Games fake physics all the time and avoid stuff that gets close to realistic physics. Because the game engines only support realistic physics which is too unpredictable to use for a lot of stuff. New physics engines that are physics 'like' but predictable aren't really a thing yet.
Lots of AI stuff the industry hasn't explored yet. Not making stuff smarter but using it to make worlds feel more alive. Letting npc's actually be part of the world, compete with players for resources in some ways, etc..
Or just taking an existing thing and evolving it. One recent example that stood out to me was the building system in Fortnite. Compare that to the last 10 mmo's that had any kind of building, and where most of them just kept making it more and more complex. Fortnite took a pretty cool idea that simplified building and at least for me made it more fun.
This is a very solid list of things MMORPGs haven't attempted. I'm not so sure these don't need to be complex or even expensive to add. The weight of 'no one has done that before' seems to keep developers and investors from actually exploring anything outside of what we got in the 1970s with D&D, 1st Edition.
Some ideas of other things that could be added.
Systems for abstracting behavior beyond the combat/magic/crafting systems. A functional political system and / or religious system comes to mind.
More interactive worlds. Ever seen a character climb a tree, or order a drink in a tavern without having to stand up to order/pay/drink it?
Alternate ways to representing the human body. Hit points was made for dice, and intended to keep math simple. Why do we stick with simple math when the computer is going to do all the calculations?
Exploring ideas to allow fellow players 'evaluate' how well you role-play. Several social media concepts could be altered to tie tangible rewards to how your character behaves.
Even the combat is too 'sword-focused'. Why not integrate some form of grabbing, holding and knockdowns or a more formalized boxing/wrestling/mma combat into the weapon play?
The possibilities with AI alone are pretty much limitless. True dynamic content generation is likely not achievable anytime soon, but even a system of highly randomized quest generator would be a step up from totally static content.
I'd really rather fight wolves that knew what fire was and respected it. Wolves should act like wolves.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
The features aren't really new and that's not necessarily a bad thing. What the game is trying to do, in my opinion, is bring another PVP sandbox to the genre along the lines of ArcheAge, BDO, and maybe some of EVE Online.
However, we've seen that these games ultimately fail or have limited interest to the core MMO lover. Most MMORPG players like story, lore, and PVE. So, it is a bold move to make a title like this.
When I say "most" I am using success as a gauge here. World of Warcraft, Elder Scrolls Online, Guild Wars 2, games like that, make a lot of profit. EVE is currently struggling, ArcheAge has been relaunched five times with no success, and BDO is heading down a bad road.
I wouldn't put archeage or bdo on this line, since archeage what fucked up was the f2p launch and all the stupid things trion did, if the game was like during alpha, I would still there playing, not spend my head start out since the server was full and then use another build for my char because they fucked with the skills, or caring for a betterhorse since they normalize that one and removed the clothes stats, so pretty much the game had several thing to do and go after trion removed that, so there was not point to keep going
BDO no serious game launch class skill one time a month and hope to not get some back slash, and then we have the whole pay to win CS with both games have.
and elder scrolls online a success? that is new
gw2 is meh was okish then they started to fuck with the classes up, forcing you to play a meta and not go around trying builds, after 3 nerfs on my rifle warrior I just give up there was not point anymore, things just stoped to be fun
Ashes needs one or both of these things in order to survive:
- A genius end-game which has players spend a lot of time progressing through it, while keeping it fun. - A system where alts are more than just "another character that you have to go through the questline just to try out new abilities".
I think themeparks only thrive when they have good methods of keeping their players in the game.
- Weak end-game = you lose your players that aren't interested in your other classes within 2 months of release max. - Weak leveling content = you lose your "curious" players who don't wanna "have to go through it again".
This is basically how XIV passed the test. The only real themepark since WoW to be able to hold the majority of its players' attention longer than 3 months. The end-game was challenging, and they kept adding to it fairly quickly considering industry standards set by Blizzard. Playing alt-jobs was effortless (aka, didn't have to go through the story and quests again etc) and could be done on a whim. Pushing through Gathering/Crafting basically made you rich. You know, a well designed game.
Ashes needs one or both of these things in order to survive:
- A genius end-game which has players spend a lot of time progressing through it, while keeping it fun. - A system where alts are more than just "another character that you have to go through the questline just to try out new abilities".
I think themeparks only thrive when they have good methods of keeping their players in the game.
- Weak end-game = you lose your players that aren't interested in your other classes within 2 months of release max. - Weak leveling content = you lose your "curious" players who don't wanna "have to go through it again".
This is basically how XIV passed the test. The only real themepark since WoW to be able to hold the majority of its players' attention longer than 3 months. The end-game was challenging, and they kept adding to it fairly quickly considering industry standards set by Blizzard. Playing alt-jobs was effortless (aka, didn't have to go through the story and quests again etc) and could be done on a whim. Pushing through Gathering/Crafting basically made you rich. You know, a well designed game.
I hope to god this game DONT turn out to be WoW engame type of MMO, I would rather see it more like EVE in fantasy setting.
I was going to say "Age of Conan is years old what are you going on about!? But its Ashes of Creation so instead: It is no where near launch how about waiting at least until early access before you can expect a genuine answer to that question.
Another game that everyone is excited for, but will ultimately flop due to their sub model, unless they pull some magic tricks at the end to try and save it. MMOs are hostile territory these days when you think you are gonna get away with charging a sub. It's not WoW and and it's not Final Fantasy, it's just an indie MMO. Maybe they won't mind having less than 1k playing within one year time. Seen this so many times here, over hype under deliver. You don't even need to be psychic to see it.
I'm sure someone will reply and call me a hater or troll, and "what do you know?" Well.......I've have literally played well over 300 MMOs f2p/b2p/p2p, seen a lot come and go, hype build, then die out. This one brings nothing exciting or new to the table, it's just another MMO promising stuff like so many others before it, so yeah it will most likely flop. If EQ Next was never able to happen, this game will surely not live up to all the expectations placed upon it.
Funny how before Final Fantasy became such a huge success with a sub model it was "It's not WoW ... so it won't make it with a monthly fee".
Quite ridiculous is also your statement about how the game "will ultimately flop due to their sub model". So, if indeed a sub model doesn't work out for them, do they simply say "Ok we tried, but our game flopped"? An MMO has the luxury of changing depending on what customers want. They simply alter their business model and AoC will have every chance of finding new players. ESO is a very successful MMO. Has it flopped because they changed from a sub model to b2p and then to f2p? And it still offers the option to sub. In fact, it is odd saying that subscription is dead when in fact many b2p and f2p MMOs offer it and are doing fine with hybrid models. All that has really changed is that customers prefer to have options regarding how they want to pay and what they want to pay for. Some don't mind paying for simple access while others prefer to spend money on cosmetic items and such. Whether AoC can make it work with just one business model remains to be seen. If not, I'm sure they won't shut it down but simply adapt.
The rest really seems like you have just burned out on MMOs. The problem is the need of quite a small but vocal playerbase for something revolutionary, something completely new. No other genre in the game world is saddled with these kinds of unrealistic expectations. As someone has already pointed out, there won't be something "new". It matters far more how something is done, how systems interconnect and how they are implemented.
AoC is not revolutionary, but it combines tried systems in a way that makes it fresh for a particular playerbase. Will it work? Who knows. But if you ask me, it's not the hype train that has made the MMO industry so toxic but the doomsayers that seem to come out of the woodwork whenever a new MMO comes along. I prefer to be hopeful and optimistic while waiting to see the finished product. Might want to give it a try. Everything is more fun this way.
Sorry, I saw AoC and immediately thought Age of Conan. Carry on folks!
The name confusion is going to be a big problem for this game. Maybe they will come to their senses and change the name of this game. Couldn't the game work just as well with a title like 'Ashes of Ganisha' or something related to their lore? It's a problem they are making for themselves.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Sorry, I saw AoC and immediately thought Age of Conan. Carry on folks!
The name confusion is going to be a big problem for this game. Maybe they will come to their senses and change the name of this game. Couldn't the game work just as well with a title like 'Ashes of Ganisha' or something related to their lore? It's a problem they are making for themselves.
The Devs from the beginning have regularly referred to their title as "Ashes"
Its only gamers and web sites like this who fail by reusing a commonly known acronymn which creates the confusion.
Not so much unlike the confusion with the acronymn MMO, its a form of willful ignorance by many.
Fortunately for them, I'm here to help correct their folly and happy to do so.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
However, we've seen that these games ultimately fail or have limited interest to the core MMO lover. Most MMORPG players like story, lore, and PVE. So, it is a bold move to make a title like this.
When I say "most" I am using success as a gauge here. World of Warcraft, Elder Scrolls Online, Guild Wars 2, games like that, make a lot of profit. EVE is currently struggling, ArcheAge has been relaunched five times with no success, and BDO is heading down a bad road.
It's pointless to play a brilliantly conceived game if I can't find a single build I like.
I didn't hear of this game up untill now and wow. Sounds good. The class system looks (on paper) really great. If the rogue has so many alternative builds hopefully there will be at least a fun one.
Too bad all these supposedly great game will all come out almost at the same time killing each other since they all aim at the same type of players, while we've been here for years without a half decent title
I'm sure someone will reply and call me a hater or troll, and "what do you know?" Well.......I've have literally played well over 300 MMOs f2p/b2p/p2p, seen a lot come and go, hype build, then die out. This one brings nothing exciting or new to the table, it's just another MMO promising stuff like so many others before it, so yeah it will most likely flop. If EQ Next was never able to happen, this game will surely not live up to all the expectations placed upon it.
The only real question we should be concerned with is: will the game be good? If its a good game then people will play it. The pay model wont matter. Most of the top streamers on twitch have already backed this game. If they all play it and enjoy it, people will jump on. If it sucks at either early, mid, or end game then it will die and probably be forced to go f2p.
Some ideas of other things that could be added.
- Systems for abstracting behavior beyond the combat/magic/crafting systems. A functional political system and / or religious system comes to mind.
- More interactive worlds. Ever seen a character climb a tree, or order a drink in a tavern without having to stand up to order/pay/drink it?
- Alternate ways to representing the human body. Hit points was made for dice, and intended to keep math simple. Why do we stick with simple math when the computer is going to do all the calculations?
- Exploring ideas to allow fellow players 'evaluate' how well you role-play. Several social media concepts could be altered to tie tangible rewards to how your character behaves.
- Even the combat is too 'sword-focused'. Why not integrate some form of grabbing, holding and knockdowns or a more formalized boxing/wrestling/mma combat into the weapon play?
The possibilities with AI alone are pretty much limitless. True dynamic content generation is likely not achievable anytime soon, but even a system of highly randomized quest generator would be a step up from totally static content.I'd really rather fight wolves that knew what fire was and respected it. Wolves should act like wolves.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
BDO no serious game launch class skill one time a month and hope to not get some back slash, and then we have the whole pay to win CS with both games have.
and elder scrolls online a success? that is new
gw2 is meh was okish then they started to fuck with the classes up, forcing you to play a meta and not go around trying builds, after 3 nerfs on my rifle warrior I just give up there was not point anymore, things just stoped to be fun
- A genius end-game which has players spend a lot of time progressing through it, while keeping it fun.
- A system where alts are more than just "another character that you have to go through the questline just to try out new abilities".
I think themeparks only thrive when they have good methods of keeping their players in the game.
- Weak end-game = you lose your players that aren't interested in your other classes within 2 months of release max.
- Weak leveling content = you lose your "curious" players who don't wanna "have to go through it again".
This is basically how XIV passed the test. The only real themepark since WoW to be able to hold the majority of its players' attention longer than 3 months. The end-game was challenging, and they kept adding to it fairly quickly considering industry standards set by Blizzard. Playing alt-jobs was effortless (aka, didn't have to go through the story and quests again etc) and could be done on a whim. Pushing through Gathering/Crafting basically made you rich. You know, a well designed game.
I hope to god this game DONT turn out to be WoW engame type of MMO, I would rather see it more like EVE in fantasy setting.
The rest really seems like you have just burned out on MMOs. The problem is the need of quite a small but vocal playerbase for something revolutionary, something completely new. No other genre in the game world is saddled with these kinds of unrealistic expectations. As someone has already pointed out, there won't be something "new". It matters far more how something is done, how systems interconnect and how they are implemented.
AoC is not revolutionary, but it combines tried systems in a way that makes it fresh for a particular playerbase. Will it work? Who knows. But if you ask me, it's not the hype train that has made the MMO industry so toxic but the doomsayers that seem to come out of the woodwork whenever a new MMO comes along. I prefer to be hopeful and optimistic while waiting to see the finished product. Might want to give it a try. Everything is more fun this way.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Its only gamers and web sites like this who fail by reusing a commonly known acronymn which creates the confusion.
Not so much unlike the confusion with the acronymn MMO, its a form of willful ignorance by many.
Fortunately for them, I'm here to help correct their folly and happy to do so.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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