Originally posted by Wheezal i actually agree 100% with Wepps.
that being said, MMO's can't truly stick to cannon. not without forcing players to do certain things. SWG was built around choice, there is a lot of freedom in the game and that is both it's strength and weakness. it's a total player run economy, so it's impossible for goods and services to avoid being inflated. it's a game where any player picking any race can be any profression in any faction, so it's hard to stick to the "Aliens not allowed in the Empire" thing without placing massive restrictions on the choices available. Sure other games do it, and that's part of their mechanics. SWG is about choice, and with hundreds of thousands of players with the freedom to choose, you're just going to get things way out of line with what the original saga made available. maybe SWG should have been built a lot more linearly (is that a word?), maybe more rules and limits should have been put in place, it doesn't matter. The genie is out of the bottle so to speak and the ability to choose can not be revoked at this point.
Yes I see your point, but I was aware of the 'restrictions' issue before I made the post.
The point is not to LIMIT the player, in that if he is not Human or Zabrak he can't join the Empire, and therefore putting limitations on the players eliminates potential content from the game...
The point is that it could have been done in such a manner as to EXPAND the potential content for the players, offering even more options.
As a person who understands the military aspects of the Star Wars saga, I find it incredibly lenient of Hayden to allow A-wings, B-wings, and hyperspacing TIE fighters in the Space Expansion. This was just LAZY DEVELOPMENT.
It could have been done in such a manner that these types of small vessels were designed according to the 'rules' layed down by Lucas, and additional content created to fill those gaps.
They did not. NOW, with talk of adding Capital Ships to the Space Expansion, there is no possible way to balance that design versus the continuity of the saga. There is no REASON to sacrifice shields and atmosphere except to gain maneuverability, but strategically it all disappears in a cloud of confusion.
In the original, and this is one of my pet peeves, the Empire was forced to conduct Space Control strategies based upon the fact that their fighter craft could not exist in a system unless there was either planetary control in place with the facilities available, or the capital ships in the system carrying those fighter and bomber craft. THIS allows the Rebellion freedom to hit and run, and strike where they will, while sacrificing small craft maneuverability as a result. And this is why they initially chose X and Y wings over other, better interceptors.
Adding capital ships now will do nothing to bring about continuity when discussing a play strategy. Because they refused to maintain that continuity in the past, now they have no choice but to implement an incomplete, and totally wrong, version of a space battle.
All this does is compound what previous people who quit the game know, lack of attention to detail is their major failure in quality of content.
As Star Wars, if they built the game around that attention to detail, they would have at least maintained those who are Star Wars diehards. Most of those left. On the other hand, if you build the game to at least be fun and full of interesting Star Warsy content, you would have brought others to play who are not necessarily interested in the continuity but the fun aspects of a superior game.
If you do neither, you end up with a helluva lot less players than you initially anticipated.
I could understand them sacrificing SOME minor continuity for the sake of better game play. It is a game after all. But, sacrificing content then not providing a working and fun play enviroment sort of defeated the purpose of losing that continuity in the first place.
As it stands, I find SOE to be blaming people like me, and my negative reports on this product, rather than taking the bull by the horns and restoring STAR WARS to GALAXIES, paying more attention to those details, eliminating those bugs and issues whether or not they are Bounty Hunters or Jedi.
If they did do these things, if they gave an honest effort to bring the game back in line with Star Wars, and fix the danged thing, they would have to expand bandwidth by the tera.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
But, sacrificing content then not providing a working and fun play enviroment sort of defeated the purpose of losing that continuity in the first place.
while a great deal of your post makes excellent sense ( i still stand my "total freedom" idea though) this line in particular is VERY subjective.
just because they haven't created a game to the ideals you laid out, does not mean it's not fun and working. hundreds of thousands of players still find it a fun game to play (i certainly do) despite its flaws (of course that argument goes for any MMO). careful to present these kinds of opinions as fact, i think thats where a lot of argument get started.
in the end, a MMO has to appease an awful lot of people. and none of us can honestly say that a change in any particular decision would have resulted in a better or worse game. we have to take into account what the majority wants, and we really don't know who the majority is. we can get a feel for it from reading various forums, or by what our friends base their opinions on, but we never really know for sure because we never see the total demographic any company is hoping to serve.
******************************** MMO Name: InVictus Kell Currently Playing: EVE Online ********************************
Originally posted by Wheezal Originally posted by Wepps
But, sacrificing content then not providing a working and fun play enviroment sort of defeated the purpose of losing that continuity in the first place.
while a great deal of your post makes excellent sense ( i still stand my "total freedom" idea though) this line in particular is VERY subjective. just because they haven't created a game to the ideals you laid out, does not mean it's not fun and working. hundreds of thousands of players still find it a fun game to play (i certainly do) despite its flaws (of course that argument goes for any MMO). careful to present these kinds of opinions as fact, i think thats where a lot of argument get started.
AH!
Fun is subjective, yes.
However, providing the greater potential player base with a fun game that addresses their needs as well, those who left for one reason or another, others who will not come, is NOT subjective.
It is a an interesting and popular fact (I love that line) that what is fun for one is not for another. But what in heck is wrong with catering to the needs of every possible type of player?
In their own design documentation, it is obvious that SOE spent a great deal of time on this one subject before even hiring the team. "Who is the player we are catering to?"
But here-in lays the problem. Nowhere, except in only certain circles, does it say that the rule is that you must choose one and toss the rest of the players out on their ears when they complain.
It's not as hard as it sounds, catering to the majority of players. It just seems hard on the surface. Experienced players know exactly what they want, and how to do it in such a manner so the other guy has his needs met too.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
In numerous posts on the official SWG forum and in various articles the developers have stated that they DO NOT intend to recreate the canon SW universe. For the sake of balance between factions there ARE hypering TIEs. For the sake of marketing there ARE more jedi than the timeline would indicate.
If you can live with that - fine. Play the game.
If you consider that a sacrilege to the SW universe, if you INSIST that every scar on Boba Fett is in the EXACT place you see it in the movies ... then SWG is not the game for you. Not even because its not exactly the canon SW universe but because the players do not always behave like inhabitants of this very universe, which will kill your immersion feeling.
It's a game people and remember that warning right on the loading screen?
"Warning, Experience May Change During On Line Play"
It is still fun though and there are lots of cool things you CAN do that are Star Warsy. Yeah the game has its problems, but what game does not. If you get into a good guild on a decent server, you should have fun pretty much no matter what.
Originally posted by DStrangelove Exactly, It's a game people and remember that warning right on the loading screen? "Warning, Experience May Change During On Line Play" It is still fun though and there are lots of cool things you CAN do that are Star Warsy. Yeah the game has its problems, but what game does not. If you get into a good guild on a decent server, you should have fun pretty much no matter what.
Sorry, but this is such a cop out and the #1 reason why this game is in the state it is. It is a badly put together game, run on a system that is one of the laggiest in existence, and is about as far away from "living the Star Wars experience" as dressing up in stained sheets and hitting your brother with a broom in the backyard!! But hey, that can all be excused with a simple disclaimer message *LOL*.
Maybe they should change their warning to read "Warning; entertainment value of this product will decrease over time owing to ineptitude of proprietors". Then no one will have a right to complain.
And contrary to what you claim, no other game out there at the moment (ie; that is still a going concern) has problems anywhere near to the scale of the problems that have (and still do) plagued SWG since it went live - well none outside of the SOE stable of games that is.
But heck, they (the devs) persist with this game in its current vegetative state because they know that the players who really cared left - broken and beaten in defeat - a long time ago (and wont be back no matter what the devs do). They know they can do what they like, to whom they like as its not going to affect the slow downward spiral of their sub base. They know and we know that all that are left are SW masochists and kiddies whose mums and dads caved into the advertising and brought junior the game as it was on special in the bargain bin at the local EB. The only way SOE can get bums on seats is to literally give the game away and even then they can't retain the audience beyond the free month or 2. And yeah, if they feel like screwing around with the game and making sections of it unplayable - well they have the disclaimer don't they?
So, SOE can continue to make excuses about the timelines, encourage the player base to accept that every 2nd player is a ub3rL337 smack-talking 12yr old Jedi, that space is "really cool" when its actually boring and pointless and that the only way to have fun (that is if you are really serious about playing this game as a MMORPG and not as KoTOR Online) is to gather your small group of like minded people and go off and find somewhere quiet to play by yourselves and hope you don't have your play time ruined by yet another group of wandering teenage mutant jedi gangsters.
And fun? Yeah fun in SWG is a completed borked Galactic Civil War where players now race each other to see how many factional bases they can drop in one night (I think the record is 120). Fun in SWG is where you gather more than 100 players in one location to have a battle and the CSRs turn up to tell you off and threaten to ban your account because you are affecting the server stability. Fun is having every POI and high end creature camped 24x7 by hordes of Jedi and their paddy mates. Fun is playing on a server that even after 2 years of running still rubberbands your avatar back 1000m for no particular reason.
And if you manage to stick it out for all this time, through the endless patches and bugs and game mechanic changes and your friends and buddies deserting you and the ceaseless smack talk emanating from the mouths of every player you meet...... well as a gesture of magnaminous benevolence, SOE have this completely worthless and useless decoration to give you for your house. I mean, aren't all SWG players budding home decorators at heart and isn't interior design the pinnacle of the game?
Truely, the only "fun" you can do in this game is watch the slider progress as you uninstall this piling steam of crud off yor PC and recover the space, and the only "cool" thing about SWG is the way the cd's fly and shatter when you hurl them at a brick wall in frustration over the realisation that you have actually been giving these b@stards your money for so long, and then have them and their apologists tot out the line "well you were warned that your gameplay experience may change on-line".
At the end of the day, you really have to worry about the state of a game where even its ardent supporters can only offer the lame opinion that the only way to have fun in the game is "get into a good guild on a decent server". It's the gaming equivalent of wanting to get rich and marrying a millionaire to accomplish it.
I'm surprised sometimes that they don't include a jar of vaseline in the box - then you could have "The Total Experience" and finally realise what the marketing arm of SOE really mean't.
dude stfu its the game its not going on witht he story line u should know that if your a perbel in the gae bec a one point u get to meet luke and he aint even a full jedi then
Originally posted by shugoo dude stfu its the game its not going on witht he story line u should know that if your a perbel in the gae bec a one point u get to meet luke and he aint even a full jedi then
*LOL* - and presenting to the jury, an average SWG player.
Originally posted by Stuman Originally posted by shugoo dude stfu its the game its not going on witht he story line u should know that if your a perbel in the gae bec a one point u get to meet luke and he aint even a full jedi then
*LOL* - and presenting to the jury, an average SWG player.
I rest my case your honor.
That in the above post, written by shugoo is actually TIGGS a developer for SWG. this is where the problem arises
I wouldn't mind continuity issues so much if SOE/LA would make an effort to balance out Jedi or in the least make obtaining one difficult.
Unfortunately, SOE/LA has borked the story line in SWG to such an extent it's become hard to enjoy any level of immersion. IMO, that's lead to a number of people who come to the game from a SW fanbase to leave.
Lol, I remember when Thunderheart explained that Pikeman couldn't have the imperial crimson robes because it would break continuity.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Originally posted by jessian Originally posted by Jodokai We have another one. Jessian, How many Wookiees (or Rodians, or Tweliks or Zebraks or Bothans or Mon Cals) did you see in the Imperal army in the movies or books? How many Wookiees did you see chilling out with Tradosshens in Cantinas in the books? All of these things go "against continuity" yet the only thing you have a problem with is jedi? Why is that?
quite simple. The EMPEROR would have killed the vast majority of them, Darth Vader himself took it upon himself to remove the jedi.
yet, we see thousands of openly active imperial and rebel jedi fighting in the streets of theed, bestine, coronet and dantooine.
but im afraid, this KOTOR wars will come to an end.
Wow, you have TOTALLY missed the point of my post so let me try again: If the Emperor saw a wookiee with a gun, he'd be killed just as quickly as a jedi, since one of his slaves escaped. A wookiee would never associate with a Trando, since the Trando's are the ones that put wookiees into slavery in the first place. Yet all this goes on and you don't seem to have a problem with it, you only have a problem with jedi, when the rest is just as against continuity as Jedi. So why are you just picking one aspect to be upset about? Why aren't up upset about all of it?
El, Exactly, this is the argument people should be using against Jedi. Not that rediculously retarded statement that "it's against continuity"
Wepps, I'm a little confused by a couple of your posts: In one you seem to want SOE to cater to EVERYONE, in another you seem to want them to follow cannon more closely. I don't see how you can have it both ways. If you follow cannon you can't have a Wookiee Colonel in the Imperial Army, but all the people out there that want that won't be catered to. I think the reason SOE went against so much cannon was to make sure they catered to as many people as possible.
Stuman, Please don't sit there and try to tell me what I do or don't think is fun. I'll give you a little insight about me: I'm 32 years onld and spent the last 13 years as a United States Sailor, it's been a long time since my mommy bought me anything. I like SWG, I've been playing it since release, and I like it. It is perfect? Hell no, far from it, but I like it despite it's flaws.
The trouble with people is they want to be spoon fed. We live in a society where peopl's attitude is "Why read the book when I can watch the movie?". Why use my imagination when someone else can come up with everything for me. I have more freedom than in any other MMO. The beauty of it is, it doesn't even have to be Star Wars. I've gone up in my space yaht and played out adventures of the show "Farscape" where we were all different character from that show. I can build my own town and call it O.K. and have a wild west shoot out. Or I can even play out some adventures of Star Wars. The world is totally open to me, I can do whatever I want.
So don't sit on your high horse saying the game is awful and because you say it, it must be so, because while you may think me an idiot for liking SWG, I think you're just lazy and unimaginative for not liking it.
Wepps, I'm a little confused by a couple of your posts: In one you seem to want SOE to cater to EVERYONE, in another you seem to want them to follow cannon more closely. I don't see how you can have it both ways.
That is why you aren't a game developer.
And if you are one, you aren't a very good one.
It's not a matter of catering to whim, but to play style. It's also a matter of catering to your core player base as I once recall Raph Koster stating. The problem with his statement wasn't that it was necessarily wrong in this one case, in Star Wars. It was that he misidentified that core player base.
Further, he misjudged the player base he ignored.
This game's player base was already in existence, in the Star Wars fans. Raph, though, insisted upon believing that the core player base was actually the hardcore player. He said as much in his own statement in beta, which I still have archived. His reasoning? They were the ones that came to the boards.
Some people are just too smart for themselves, and in other times in our history would have died a strange and unusual death at a young age for lack of wisdom.
You can actually make a danged good MMO out of ANYTHING. But when you screw one up with such a following, and such a background as Star Wars, then I think it's time to hang up pencil and dunce hat and go back to stuffing McNugget boxes for a living.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Ohhhh the arguements: In answer to the original question: Yes, the game is worth it to those who enjoy it. To those who don't it's not.
To find out if it's worth it for you i suggest trying it. That's really the only way you're going to decide. The problem with Star Wars Galaxies is that it's Star Wars and, as you can see, it's Fan Base is divided between those who enjoy the game and those who get hung up on the minutae. Neither side is right and neither side is wrong.
The Game, such as it is, is not perfect but for many people it's the best thing on the market right now. For others, they can't stand it. It just depends how YOU like it. I guess it's up to each person if they like a game or not... go figure
Personally, despite it's flaws, I still love the game. It's got issues but despite those issues it's still the best thing out there. Until something *better* comes out I'll continue playing it.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
Wepps, I'm a little confused by a couple of your posts: In one you seem to want SOE to cater to EVERYONE, in another you seem to want them to follow cannon more closely. I don't see how you can have it both ways.
That is why you aren't a game developer.
And if you are one, you aren't a very good one.
It's not a matter of catering to whim, but to play style. It's also a matter of catering to your core player base as I once recall Raph Koster stating. The problem with his statement wasn't that it was necessarily wrong in this one case, in Star Wars. It was that he misidentified that core player base.
Further, he misjudged the player base he ignored.
This game's player base was already in existence, in the Star Wars fans. Raph, though, insisted upon believing that the core player base was actually the hardcore player. He said as much in his own statement in beta, which I still have archived. His reasoning? They were the ones that came to the boards.
Some people are just too smart for themselves, and in other times in our history would have died a strange and unusual death at a young age for lack of wisdom.
You can actually make a danged good MMO out of ANYTHING. But when you screw one up with such a following, and such a background as Star Wars, then I think it's time to hang up pencil and dunce hat and go back to stuffing McNugget boxes for a living.
Ahh there's the Wepps I remember. Right you CAN have it both ways right Wepps? And you know EXACTLY how to do it, you're just gonna keep it a secret so no one steals your ideas right?
The fact is you can't have it both ways. There are people out there that want to be Rodian Colonels in the Imperial Army. There are Wookiees that want to be in the same Guild as Trando's. If SOE stuck to cannon, those people would be upset. Those people can't play the game the way they want to. You know the beauty of the system now? EVERYONE can do what they want. If you want to live in a world where only humans can be Imperials create it. Don't think it can be done? Check out Desert Sands Regiemnt on the Farstar Server. Your way leaves people a lot of people out, SOE's way only leaves out the pig-headed, lazy and unimaginative. If you want spoon fed content, then I would agree SWG is not the game for you. If you want to develop your own content, there is no better MMO out there.
Something else you, in your infinate wisdom, fail to realize is that not all Star Wars fans play computer games, and not all computer gamers are Star Wars Fans (personally, I've hated every movie after Empire Strikes Back). Not all Star Wars fans that play computer games, play MMO's. If you want to appeal to the largest amount of people you have to cater to the Star Wars Fans, the MMO fans and entice computer gamers.
Originally posted by Elnator *yawn* Ohhhh the arguements: In answer to the original question: Yes, the game is worth it to those who enjoy it. To those who don't it's not. To find out if it's worth it for you i suggest trying it. That's really the only way you're going to decide. The problem with Star Wars Galaxies is that it's Star Wars and, as you can see, it's Fan Base is divided between those who enjoy the game and those who get hung up on the minutae. Neither side is right and neither side is wrong. The Game, such as it is, is not perfect but for many people it's the best thing on the market right now. For others, they can't stand it. It just depends how YOU like it. I guess it's up to each person if they like a game or not... go figure Personally, despite it's flaws, I still love the game. It's got issues but despite those issues it's still the best thing out there. Until something *better* comes out I'll continue playing it.
I wouldn't say people who hate the game over cannon issues are hung up on small details. There are some fairly glaring things in the game that make no sense with the time period the game is taking place in. I personally as a star wars fan will tell you this game "SHOULD" be set after ROTJ. It would be far more realistic to allowing this jedi population explosion. It never stopped me personally from enjoying the game. I roleplayed and am familar with the timeline disassocation facts that will occur in any large scale role-playing game. It becomes impossible to follow strict timelines, however, if you pick up any gamemaster rpg guide for star wars they address jedi very specifically and give straight advice on killing off and making jedi toons near impossible to play if you use this timeframe. SOE needs to read star wars role-playing guides by the experts at Wizards of the coast and West End Games. This game lacks the flavor a GM or dev is suppose to give a star wars roleplaying adventure game.
It is also a major hang up I have with the game. There is no large under current story in the game. For the most part the games story is a bunch of loosly segments stories either being run by dedicated players or small unimportant storys generated by SOE. The soe devs should play a little of guild wars to see a stoy play out and use those ideas for advancing the game. I recall this games time was suppose to advance. It hasn't yet and that is dissappointing to a fan of star wars and games. That is why a Hoth expansion was so important and not doing it first was a major mistake.
Back to the topic though. My leaving had to do with SOE's customer service and staff. Fire Ralph Koster and hire players to do csr work and fix that department and I will come back to believing in sony. That is I think the majority of players who left. The game would dramatically improve just by those 2 things.
the only problem with a Hoth expansion would be that other then a very impressive battle, it's a big empty ice world with nothing on it.
i could see Hoth being an instanced type of thing like the Corvette. and i'm all for progressing the story-line. Just have the interesting parts of Hoth be instanced, no need for a whole empty Ice planet. i think there are far better planets that can be added to provide good content.
******************************** MMO Name: InVictus Kell Currently Playing: EVE Online ********************************
Originally posted by Wheezal the only problem with a Hoth expansion would be that other then a very impressive battle, it's a big empty ice world with nothing on it. i could see Hoth being an instanced type of thing like the Corvette. and i'm all for progressing the story-line. Just have the interesting parts of Hoth be instanced, no need for a whole empty Ice planet. i think there are far better planets that can be added to provide good content.
yep, and on Eclipse it's home to several powerful PA's on both sides of the war and lots of player cities. also has one of the servers best weaponsmiths there too (if only he'd make me some commando weapons already!! ).
i was referring to "adventure planets" that cities and homes could not be built on. So i stand by my point that there are considerably better content providing planets that should be used before Hoth. and that Hoth should be an instanced zone for those wishing to move down the story line.
******************************** MMO Name: InVictus Kell Currently Playing: EVE Online ********************************
Originally posted by Jodokai Originally posted by WeppsOriginally posted by JodokaiWepps,I'm a little confused by a couple of your posts: In one you seem to want SOE to cater to EVERYONE, in another you seem to want them to follow cannon more closely. I don't see how you can have it both ways. That is why you aren't a game developer. And if you are one, you aren't a very good one. It's not a matter of catering to whim, but to play style. It's also a matter of catering to your core player base as I once recall Raph Koster stating. The problem with his statement wasn't that it was necessarily wrong in this one case, in Star Wars. It was that he misidentified that core player base. Further, he misjudged the player base he ignored. This game's player base was already in existence, in the Star Wars fans. Raph, though, insisted upon believing that the core player base was actually the hardcore player. He said as much in his own statement in beta, which I still have archived. His reasoning? They were the ones that came to the boards. Some people are just too smart for themselves, and in other times in our history would have died a strange and unusual death at a young age for lack of wisdom. You can actually make a danged good MMO out of ANYTHING. But when you screw one up with such a following, and such a background as Star Wars, then I think it's time to hang up pencil and dunce hat and go back to stuffing McNugget boxes for a living. Ahh there's the Wepps I remember. Right you CAN have it both ways right Wepps? And you know EXACTLY how to do it, you're just gonna keep it a secret so no one steals your ideas right? The fact is you can't have it both ways. There are people out there that want to be Rodian Colonels in the Imperial Army. There are Wookiees that want to be in the same Guild as Trando's. If SOE stuck to cannon, those people would be upset. Those people can't play the game the way they want to. You know the beauty of the system now? EVERYONE can do what they want. If you want to live in a world where only humans can be Imperials create it. Don't think it can be done? Check out Desert Sands Regiemnt on the Farstar Server. Your way leaves people a lot of people out, SOE's way only leaves out the pig-headed, lazy and unimaginative. If you want spoon fed content, then I would agree SWG is not the game for you. If you want to develop your own content, there is no better MMO out there. Something else you, in your infinate wisdom, fail to realize is that not all Star Wars fans play computer games, and not all computer gamers are Star Wars Fans (personally, I've hated every movie after Empire Strikes Back). Not all Star Wars fans that play computer games, play MMO's. If you want to appeal to the largest amount of people you have to cater to the Star Wars Fans, the MMO fans and entice computer gamers.
This entire post is typical of somebody that completely lacks vision.
You make the assumption that by disallowing aliens into the human club the game goes to hell. SURE, if nothing else changes and you are basing the entire game around this.
If you want a discussion of how the game SHOULD have been designed, FINE! But I just don't feel like going through literally hundreds of pages of design documentation. I did much of that in beta and release on the main boards, go find them yourself. Doing so for something I can never produce due to licensing would be a waste of time, given you have no authority, neither will SOE suddenly wake up and smell the coffee. Besides, you will only read the first line and come back with nonsensical, obnoxious, uncreative, and generally stupid comments much like your post I just quoted.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
The only thing I dont' exactly disagree with, but have an opinion on, is that what irritates me is the shadows and such is one of the best thing about the game, and of course you HAVE to turn it off to play the game wihtout much lag. So in essence, the games tendancies irritate me. That's why I quit. I keep up with it though, and I still have it on the computer, only been quit for 2 months now. Still waiting on the smuggler patch to see if it's all they crack it up to be. But with all the jedi, I'm not paying them jack, I'll buy a card, and make them take the financial hit for having to sell it through a retailer. (reason? jedi are a marketing tool. I'm not giving into their market unless curiosity get's the best of me.)
Originally posted by Dark_Lord_13 Mudde I agree completely with you. The only thing I dont' exactly disagree with, but have an opinion on, is that what irritates me is the shadows and such is one of the best thing about the game, and of course you HAVE to turn it off to play the game wihtout much lag. So in essence, the games tendancies irritate me. That's why I quit. I keep up with it though, and I still have it on the computer, only been quit for 2 months now. Still waiting on the smuggler patch to see if it's all they crack it up to be. But with all the jedi, I'm not paying them jack, I'll buy a card, and make them take the financial hit for having to sell it through a retailer. (reason? jedi are a marketing tool. I'm not giving into their market unless curiosity get's the best of me.)
Um... I had every single affect turned on with my old P4 1.8ghz 100mhz FSB, RAMBUS 512mb RAM, GeForce 5700/256 and never had problems with shadows. Dunno what your problem was but I only ever had lag in Coronet with that system, and Dant mining out post when it was really crwoded.
On my new 3.2 I have every effect turned on and the clip planes maxed out and only have lag on kashyyk and even there it's only in very crowded areas during peak time.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online. Sig image Pending Still in: A couple Betas
go to the game launcher, under game options. set the shader to 1.1, then disable world preloading and caching. the game loads up much faster and you can turn a lot of graphics settings higher (including shadows) and still run at pretty decent FPS.
******************************** MMO Name: InVictus Kell Currently Playing: EVE Online ********************************
Comments
Yes I see your point, but I was aware of the 'restrictions' issue before I made the post.
The point is not to LIMIT the player, in that if he is not Human or Zabrak he can't join the Empire, and therefore putting limitations on the players eliminates potential content from the game...
The point is that it could have been done in such a manner as to EXPAND the potential content for the players, offering even more options.
As a person who understands the military aspects of the Star Wars saga, I find it incredibly lenient of Hayden to allow A-wings, B-wings, and hyperspacing TIE fighters in the Space Expansion. This was just LAZY DEVELOPMENT.
It could have been done in such a manner that these types of small vessels were designed according to the 'rules' layed down by Lucas, and additional content created to fill those gaps.
They did not. NOW, with talk of adding Capital Ships to the Space Expansion, there is no possible way to balance that design versus the continuity of the saga. There is no REASON to sacrifice shields and atmosphere except to gain maneuverability, but strategically it all disappears in a cloud of confusion.
In the original, and this is one of my pet peeves, the Empire was forced to conduct Space Control strategies based upon the fact that their fighter craft could not exist in a system unless there was either planetary control in place with the facilities available, or the capital ships in the system carrying those fighter and bomber craft. THIS allows the Rebellion freedom to hit and run, and strike where they will, while sacrificing small craft maneuverability as a result. And this is why they initially chose X and Y wings over other, better interceptors.
Adding capital ships now will do nothing to bring about continuity when discussing a play strategy. Because they refused to maintain that continuity in the past, now they have no choice but to implement an incomplete, and totally wrong, version of a space battle.
All this does is compound what previous people who quit the game know, lack of attention to detail is their major failure in quality of content.
As Star Wars, if they built the game around that attention to detail, they would have at least maintained those who are Star Wars diehards. Most of those left. On the other hand, if you build the game to at least be fun and full of interesting Star Warsy content, you would have brought others to play who are not necessarily interested in the continuity but the fun aspects of a superior game.
If you do neither, you end up with a helluva lot less players than you initially anticipated.
I could understand them sacrificing SOME minor continuity for the sake of better game play. It is a game after all. But, sacrificing content then not providing a working and fun play enviroment sort of defeated the purpose of losing that continuity in the first place.
As it stands, I find SOE to be blaming people like me, and my negative reports on this product, rather than taking the bull by the horns and restoring STAR WARS to GALAXIES, paying more attention to those details, eliminating those bugs and issues whether or not they are Bounty Hunters or Jedi.
If they did do these things, if they gave an honest effort to bring the game back in line with Star Wars, and fix the danged thing, they would have to expand bandwidth by the tera.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
while a great deal of your post makes excellent sense ( i still stand my "total freedom" idea though) this line in particular is VERY subjective.
just because they haven't created a game to the ideals you laid out, does not mean it's not fun and working. hundreds of thousands of players still find it a fun game to play (i certainly do) despite its flaws (of course that argument goes for any MMO). careful to present these kinds of opinions as fact, i think thats where a lot of argument get started.
in the end, a MMO has to appease an awful lot of people. and none of us can honestly say that a change in any particular decision would have resulted in a better or worse game. we have to take into account what the majority wants, and we really don't know who the majority is. we can get a feel for it from reading various forums, or by what our friends base their opinions on, but we never really know for sure because we never see the total demographic any company is hoping to serve.
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MMO Name: InVictus Kell
Currently Playing:
EVE Online
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AH!
Fun is subjective, yes.
However, providing the greater potential player base with a fun game that addresses their needs as well, those who left for one reason or another, others who will not come, is NOT subjective.
It is a an interesting and popular fact (I love that line) that what is fun for one is not for another. But what in heck is wrong with catering to the needs of every possible type of player?
In their own design documentation, it is obvious that SOE spent a great deal of time on this one subject before even hiring the team. "Who is the player we are catering to?"
But here-in lays the problem. Nowhere, except in only certain circles, does it say that the rule is that you must choose one and toss the rest of the players out on their ears when they complain.
It's not as hard as it sounds, catering to the majority of players. It just seems hard on the surface. Experienced players know exactly what they want, and how to do it in such a manner so the other guy has his needs met too.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
In numerous posts on the official SWG forum and in various articles the developers have stated that they DO NOT intend to recreate the canon SW universe. For the sake of balance between factions there ARE hypering TIEs. For the sake of marketing there ARE more jedi than the timeline would indicate.
If you can live with that - fine. Play the game.
If you consider that a sacrilege to the SW universe, if you INSIST that every scar on Boba Fett is in the EXACT place you see it in the movies ... then SWG is not the game for you. Not even because its not exactly the canon SW universe but because the players do not always behave like inhabitants of this very universe, which will kill your immersion feeling.
Have fun
Erillion
Exactly,
It's a game people and remember that warning right on the loading screen?
"Warning, Experience May Change During On Line Play"
It is still fun though and there are lots of cool things you CAN do that are Star Warsy. Yeah the game has its problems, but what game does not. If you get into a good guild on a decent server, you should have fun pretty much no matter what.
Sorry, but this is such a cop out and the #1 reason why this game is in the state it is. It is a badly put together game, run on a system that is one of the laggiest in existence, and is about as far away from "living the Star Wars experience" as dressing up in stained sheets and hitting your brother with a broom in the backyard!! But hey, that can all be excused with a simple disclaimer message *LOL*.
Maybe they should change their warning to read "Warning; entertainment value of this product will decrease over time owing to ineptitude of proprietors". Then no one will have a right to complain.
And contrary to what you claim, no other game out there at the moment (ie; that is still a going concern) has problems anywhere near to the scale of the problems that have (and still do) plagued SWG since it went live - well none outside of the SOE stable of games that is.
But heck, they (the devs) persist with this game in its current vegetative state because they know that the players who really cared left - broken and beaten in defeat - a long time ago (and wont be back no matter what the devs do). They know they can do what they like, to whom they like as its not going to affect the slow downward spiral of their sub base. They know and we know that all that are left are SW masochists and kiddies whose mums and dads caved into the advertising and brought junior the game as it was on special in the bargain bin at the local EB. The only way SOE can get bums on seats is to literally give the game away and even then they can't retain the audience beyond the free month or 2. And yeah, if they feel like screwing around with the game and making sections of it unplayable - well they have the disclaimer don't they?
So, SOE can continue to make excuses about the timelines, encourage the player base to accept that every 2nd player is a ub3rL337 smack-talking 12yr old Jedi, that space is "really cool" when its actually boring and pointless and that the only way to have fun (that is if you are really serious about playing this game as a MMORPG and not as KoTOR Online) is to gather your small group of like minded people and go off and find somewhere quiet to play by yourselves and hope you don't have your play time ruined by yet another group of wandering teenage mutant jedi gangsters.
And fun? Yeah fun in SWG is a completed borked Galactic Civil War where players now race each other to see how many factional bases they can drop in one night (I think the record is 120). Fun in SWG is where you gather more than 100 players in one location to have a battle and the CSRs turn up to tell you off and threaten to ban your account because you are affecting the server stability. Fun is having every POI and high end creature camped 24x7 by hordes of Jedi and their paddy mates. Fun is playing on a server that even after 2 years of running still rubberbands your avatar back 1000m for no particular reason.
And if you manage to stick it out for all this time, through the endless patches and bugs and game mechanic changes and your friends and buddies deserting you and the ceaseless smack talk emanating from the mouths of every player you meet...... well as a gesture of magnaminous benevolence, SOE have this completely worthless and useless decoration to give you for your house. I mean, aren't all SWG players budding home decorators at heart and isn't interior design the pinnacle of the game?
Truely, the only "fun" you can do in this game is watch the slider progress as you uninstall this piling steam of crud off yor PC and recover the space, and the only "cool" thing about SWG is the way the cd's fly and shatter when you hurl them at a brick wall in frustration over the realisation that you have actually been giving these b@stards your money for so long, and then have them and their apologists tot out the line "well you were warned that your gameplay experience may change on-line".
At the end of the day, you really have to worry about the state of a game where even its ardent supporters can only offer the lame opinion that the only way to have fun in the game is "get into a good guild on a decent server". It's the gaming equivalent of wanting to get rich and marrying a millionaire to accomplish it.
I'm surprised sometimes that they don't include a jar of vaseline in the box - then you could have "The Total Experience" and finally realise what the marketing arm of SOE really mean't.
*LOL* - and presenting to the jury, an average SWG player.
I rest my case your honor.
*LOL* - and presenting to the jury, an average SWG player.
I rest my case your honor.
That in the above post, written by shugoo is actually TIGGS a developer for SWG.
I wouldn't mind continuity issues so much if SOE/LA would make an effort to balance out Jedi or in the least make obtaining one difficult.
Unfortunately, SOE/LA has borked the story line in SWG to such an extent it's become hard to enjoy any level of immersion. IMO, that's lead to a number of people who come to the game from a SW fanbase to leave.
Lol, I remember when Thunderheart explained that Pikeman couldn't have the imperial crimson robes because it would break continuity.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Damn Stuman,
Who pissed in your Wheaties today?
quite simple. The EMPEROR would have killed the vast majority of them, Darth Vader himself took it upon himself to remove the jedi.
yet, we see thousands of openly active imperial and rebel jedi fighting in the streets of theed, bestine, coronet and dantooine.
but im afraid, this KOTOR wars will come to an end.
Wow, you have TOTALLY missed the point of my post so let me try again:
If the Emperor saw a wookiee with a gun, he'd be killed just as quickly as a jedi, since one of his slaves escaped. A wookiee would never associate with a Trando, since the Trando's are the ones that put wookiees into slavery in the first place. Yet all this goes on and you don't seem to have a problem with it, you only have a problem with jedi, when the rest is just as against continuity as Jedi. So why are you just picking one aspect to be upset about? Why aren't up upset about all of it?
El,
Exactly, this is the argument people should be using against Jedi. Not that rediculously retarded statement that "it's against continuity"
Wepps,
I'm a little confused by a couple of your posts: In one you seem to want SOE to cater to EVERYONE, in another you seem to want them to follow cannon more closely. I don't see how you can have it both ways. If you follow cannon you can't have a Wookiee Colonel in the Imperial Army, but all the people out there that want that won't be catered to. I think the reason SOE went against so much cannon was to make sure they catered to as many people as possible.
Stuman,
Please don't sit there and try to tell me what I do or don't think is fun. I'll give you a little insight about me: I'm 32 years onld and spent the last 13 years as a United States Sailor, it's been a long time since my mommy bought me anything. I like SWG, I've been playing it since release, and I like it. It is perfect? Hell no, far from it, but I like it despite it's flaws.
The trouble with people is they want to be spoon fed. We live in a society where peopl's attitude is "Why read the book when I can watch the movie?". Why use my imagination when someone else can come up with everything for me. I have more freedom than in any other MMO. The beauty of it is, it doesn't even have to be Star Wars. I've gone up in my space yaht and played out adventures of the show "Farscape" where we were all different character from that show. I can build my own town and call it O.K. and have a wild west shoot out. Or I can even play out some adventures of Star Wars. The world is totally open to me, I can do whatever I want.
So don't sit on your high horse saying the game is awful and because you say it, it must be so, because while you may think me an idiot for liking SWG, I think you're just lazy and unimaginative for not liking it.
That is why you aren't a game developer.
And if you are one, you aren't a very good one.
It's not a matter of catering to whim, but to play style. It's also a matter of catering to your core player base as I once recall Raph Koster stating. The problem with his statement wasn't that it was necessarily wrong in this one case, in Star Wars. It was that he misidentified that core player base.
Further, he misjudged the player base he ignored.
This game's player base was already in existence, in the Star Wars fans. Raph, though, insisted upon believing that the core player base was actually the hardcore player. He said as much in his own statement in beta, which I still have archived. His reasoning? They were the ones that came to the boards.
Some people are just too smart for themselves, and in other times in our history would have died a strange and unusual death at a young age for lack of wisdom.
You can actually make a danged good MMO out of ANYTHING. But when you screw one up with such a following, and such a background as Star Wars, then I think it's time to hang up pencil and dunce hat and go back to stuffing McNugget boxes for a living.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
*yawn*
Ohhhh the arguements:
In answer to the original question:
Yes, the game is worth it to those who enjoy it. To those who don't it's not.
To find out if it's worth it for you i suggest trying it. That's really the only way you're going to decide. The problem with Star Wars Galaxies is that it's Star Wars and, as you can see, it's Fan Base is divided between those who enjoy the game and those who get hung up on the minutae. Neither side is right and neither side is wrong.
The Game, such as it is, is not perfect but for many people it's the best thing on the market right now. For others, they can't stand it. It just depends how YOU like it. I guess it's up to each person if they like a game or not... go figure
Personally, despite it's flaws, I still love the game. It's got issues but despite those issues it's still the best thing out there. Until something *better* comes out I'll continue playing it.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
That is why you aren't a game developer.
And if you are one, you aren't a very good one.
It's not a matter of catering to whim, but to play style. It's also a matter of catering to your core player base as I once recall Raph Koster stating. The problem with his statement wasn't that it was necessarily wrong in this one case, in Star Wars. It was that he misidentified that core player base.
Further, he misjudged the player base he ignored.
This game's player base was already in existence, in the Star Wars fans. Raph, though, insisted upon believing that the core player base was actually the hardcore player. He said as much in his own statement in beta, which I still have archived. His reasoning? They were the ones that came to the boards.
Some people are just too smart for themselves, and in other times in our history would have died a strange and unusual death at a young age for lack of wisdom.
You can actually make a danged good MMO out of ANYTHING. But when you screw one up with such a following, and such a background as Star Wars, then I think it's time to hang up pencil and dunce hat and go back to stuffing McNugget boxes for a living.
Ahh there's the Wepps I remember. Right you CAN have it both ways right Wepps? And you know EXACTLY how to do it, you're just gonna keep it a secret so no one steals your ideas right?
The fact is you can't have it both ways. There are people out there that want to be Rodian Colonels in the Imperial Army. There are Wookiees that want to be in the same Guild as Trando's. If SOE stuck to cannon, those people would be upset. Those people can't play the game the way they want to. You know the beauty of the system now? EVERYONE can do what they want. If you want to live in a world where only humans can be Imperials create it. Don't think it can be done? Check out Desert Sands Regiemnt on the Farstar Server. Your way leaves people a lot of people out, SOE's way only leaves out the pig-headed, lazy and unimaginative. If you want spoon fed content, then I would agree SWG is not the game for you. If you want to develop your own content, there is no better MMO out there.
Something else you, in your infinate wisdom, fail to realize is that not all Star Wars fans play computer games, and not all computer gamers are Star Wars Fans (personally, I've hated every movie after Empire Strikes Back). Not all Star Wars fans that play computer games, play MMO's. If you want to appeal to the largest amount of people you have to cater to the Star Wars Fans, the MMO fans and entice computer gamers.
I wouldn't say people who hate the game over cannon issues are hung up on small details. There are some fairly glaring things in the game that make no sense with the time period the game is taking place in. I personally as a star wars fan will tell you this game "SHOULD" be set after ROTJ. It would be far more realistic to allowing this jedi population explosion. It never stopped me personally from enjoying the game. I roleplayed and am familar with the timeline disassocation facts that will occur in any large scale role-playing game. It becomes impossible to follow strict timelines, however, if you pick up any gamemaster rpg guide for star wars they address jedi very specifically and give straight advice on killing off and making jedi toons near impossible to play if you use this timeframe. SOE needs to read star wars role-playing guides by the experts at Wizards of the coast and West End Games. This game lacks the flavor a GM or dev is suppose to give a star wars roleplaying adventure game.
It is also a major hang up I have with the game. There is no large under current story in the game. For the most part the games story is a bunch of loosly segments stories either being run by dedicated players or small unimportant storys generated by SOE. The soe devs should play a little of guild wars to see a stoy play out and use those ideas for advancing the game. I recall this games time was suppose to advance. It hasn't yet and that is dissappointing to a fan of star wars and games. That is why a Hoth expansion was so important and not doing it first was a major mistake.
Back to the topic though. My leaving had to do with SOE's customer service and staff. Fire Ralph Koster and hire players to do csr work and fix that department and I will come back to believing in sony. That is I think the majority of players who left. The game would dramatically improve just by those 2 things.
the only problem with a Hoth expansion would be that other then a very impressive battle, it's a big empty ice world with nothing on it.
i could see Hoth being an instanced type of thing like the Corvette. and i'm all for progressing the story-line. Just have the interesting parts of Hoth be instanced, no need for a whole empty Ice planet. i think there are far better planets that can be added to provide good content.
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MMO Name: InVictus Kell
Currently Playing:
EVE Online
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I'd love to see and undercurrent storyline in the game
I'd also love to see the timeline moved to post-ROTJ, possibly Thrawn era.
However I would first like them to fix current issues with the game before adding more content.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
yep, and on Eclipse it's home to several powerful PA's on both sides of the war and lots of player cities. also has one of the servers best weaponsmiths there too (if only he'd make me some commando weapons already!!
).
i was referring to "adventure planets" that cities and homes could not be built on. So i stand by my point that there are considerably better content providing planets that should be used before Hoth. and that Hoth should be an instanced zone for those wishing to move down the story line.
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MMO Name: InVictus Kell
Currently Playing:
EVE Online
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This entire post is typical of somebody that completely lacks vision.
You make the assumption that by disallowing aliens into the human club the game goes to hell. SURE, if nothing else changes and you are basing the entire game around this.
If you want a discussion of how the game SHOULD have been designed, FINE! But I just don't feel like going through literally hundreds of pages of design documentation. I did much of that in beta and release on the main boards, go find them yourself. Doing so for something I can never produce due to licensing would be a waste of time, given you have no authority, neither will SOE suddenly wake up and smell the coffee. Besides, you will only read the first line and come back with nonsensical, obnoxious, uncreative, and generally stupid comments much like your post I just quoted.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Mudde I agree completely with you.
The only thing I dont' exactly disagree with, but have an opinion on, is that what irritates me is the shadows and such is one of the best thing about the game, and of course you HAVE to turn it off to play the game wihtout much lag. So in essence, the games tendancies irritate me. That's why I quit. I keep up with it though, and I still have it on the computer, only been quit for 2 months now. Still waiting on the smuggler patch to see if it's all they crack it up to be. But with all the jedi, I'm not paying them jack, I'll buy a card, and make them take the financial hit for having to sell it through a retailer. (reason? jedi are a marketing tool. I'm not giving into their market unless curiosity get's the best of me.)
Um... I had every single affect turned on with my old P4 1.8ghz 100mhz FSB, RAMBUS 512mb RAM, GeForce 5700/256 and never had problems with shadows. Dunno what your problem was but I only ever had lag in Coronet with that system, and Dant mining out post when it was really crwoded.
On my new 3.2 I have every effect turned on and the clip planes maxed out and only have lag on kashyyk and even there it's only in very crowded areas during peak time.
Currently Playing: Dungeons and Dragons Online.
Sig image Pending
Still in: A couple Betas
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MMO Name: InVictus Kell
Currently Playing:
EVE Online
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