Look like I said... you are wasting your time and energy trying to convince us what we can all plainly see. Because I can lose and advantage does not mean I haven’t bought one.
If I buy a gun and you have a stick... I have a huge advantage. If you bring a friend, so can I so that argument is moot. If I die of old age I simply will my gun to my successor. Yes it costs more to be a noble. That’s exactly what P2W (call it pay for huge advantage if you want)is all about.
We have already discussed this in multiple threads. You or someone else will likely make another similar post in 3 months. The end result is always going to be the same. They allow you to use real world cash to buy massive in game advantages.
Dont run from it... embrace it and turn it into an advantage. Clinging to silly wordsmithing ideas like Pay 2 Build is just going to cling around the game’s neck like an anchor.
It comes down to how you define winning in a game that is designed to be a complete sandbox. If one person wants a sand castle to come with the sandbox and another wants to build theirs with a pail and shovel, is the latter person "losing" to the first because they bought a title or land or whatever amount of EP? Having resources isn't going to matter if you don't have the organization or skill to back it up and every title can be usurped after launch. When there is no such thing as a race to end-game content, how are you even defining these "advantages" to be P2W?
So why exactly are people paying $10,000 for the king package if there is no advantage? I guess it must be out of the kindness of their heart
The king I spoke to the most often met up with some other dukes and decided they wanted to run things their way so he upgraded. He would constantly say how it was a ton of work and I might also point out that his character's death would be 32x worse on his lifespan in what is meant to be a perma-death game. But basically, he was the guild leader of his kingdom, no more and no less. The hefty price tag helps fund development and ensure that the monarchs are generally working adults and capable of being leaders in the game.
So why exactly are people paying $10,000 for the king package if there is no advantage? I guess it must be out of the kindness of their heart
The king I spoke to the most often met up with some other dukes and decided they wanted to run things their way so he upgraded. He would constantly say how it was a ton of work and I might also point out that his character's death would be 32x worse on his lifespan in what is meant to be a perma-death game. But basically, he was the guild leader of his kingdom, no more and no less. The hefty price tag helps fund development and ensure that the monarchs are generally working adults and capable of being leaders in the game.
You mean he wanted to run things "his way" and didn't want to earn the right by doing it the hard way "in game" so bought his way to the top so he could start there instead of working his way there.
Sounds like a huge advantage to me.....lol
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
So why exactly are people paying $10,000 for the king package if there is no advantage? I guess it must be out of the kindness of their heart
I can't give you reasons why Kings have pledged the amount they did (Maybe Dleatherus would be willing to share with you?). But having purchased two Courtier packages at $1000 each I can tell you why I did it. First and foremost I wanted to support what I considered to be my dream game. Secondly, I wanted to be included in the development process of the game because it is something I have never done before. And thirdly, I wanted to participate in the Dance of Dynasties (Which I look at as almost a separate game) Just to see how successful I could make my County.
I also enjoy working with other players and look forward to helping them advance in the areas of their interest.
Do I think for a moment that makes me a winner? Hell no, to me winning would mean that I could be successful in running that County as well as holding onto it for more than a year.
Those are my win conditions but I imagine everyone that has donated to SBS has different Win conditions they are aspiring to.
Myself? I would never want to be a King, to much work and to time-consuming.
So why exactly are people paying $10,000 for the king package if there is no advantage? I guess it must be out of the kindness of their heart
The king I spoke to the most often met up with some other dukes and decided they wanted to run things their way so he upgraded. He would constantly say how it was a ton of work and I might also point out that his character's death would be 32x worse on his lifespan in what is meant to be a perma-death game. But basically, he was the guild leader of his kingdom, no more and no less. The hefty price tag helps fund development and ensure that the monarchs are generally working adults and capable of being leaders in the game.
You mean he wanted to run things "his way" and didn't want to earn the right by doing it the hard way "in game" so bought his way to the top so he could start there instead of working his way there.
Sounds like a huge advantage to me.....lol
The "work" isn't about killing the king and taking his spot, it's about filling the position and staying there. It involves every monarch building alliances and engaging in diplomacy within their own kingdom so that the nobles are organized and able to repel the inevitable hordes of people who would only come through after launch. It is a ton of work and he had already put in so much that he began to regret becoming a king. Don't get me wrong, I totally understand your cynicism but it isn't coming from a place of experience in this case.
Again... we can work our way up to the Pay $10,000 to be a King... but let’s start at the bottom.
One of the big selling points listed in the OP is:
"Resources are Finite, hard to collect and cost money for resources and wages. "
Yet you can spend real money to buy those “Finite, hard to collect” resources. This is textbook P2W. Then you can also buy rare ones... How is buying resources with real money not an advantage in a game that says resources are finite and hard to collect?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Throwing money around BLINDLY is total foolishness.
The ONLY way you could ever have your dream game,is if you could design it yourself.
A home builder can build your dream home but it is still YOU the person who handpicks everything from rooms to size of rooms to brick/siding/stone,garage ,sunroom,bedrooms,cabinets,theater room etc etc.
Nobody is going inside each individual brain and designing a game around your thoughts. It really should be common sense because if all thousands of founders each THINK the game is being design around them,there would have to be thousands of renditions of the game which of course is IMPOSSIBLE.
The developer has to design the game from THEIR thoughts,their planning,hopefully the owner actually planned the entire design out BEFORE starting it on a whim.
Short true story.Hollywood actress started a KS'r,said it was top try and bring back a similar show typical of the one she starred in,thousands quickly started to give her money.A few months later it was found out that all she wanted was free money to send her daughter through an expensive private school.I am sure all those people that sent in money had similar dreams of something coming true but soon woke up to reality.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Again... we can work our way up to the Pay $10,000 to be a King... but let’s start at the bottom.
One of the big selling points listed in the OP is:
"Resources are Finite, hard to collect and cost money for resources and wages. "
Yet you can spend real money to buy those “Finite, hard to collect” resources. This is textbook P2W. Then you can also buy rare ones... How is buying resources with real money not an advantage in a game that says resources are finite and hard to collect?
Those purchased resources are in turn most likely going to be used by crafters, which adds value to the game for everyone at launch or after, since your Crafters are also your Merchants. Not only that but you are first going to have to learn how to work with those materials before you can create anything of value. It has been stated that becoming a master craftsman could take more than one lifetime to accomplish.
If you think of the game as Pay-to-Build, the building being done during the pre-alpha games and Exposition is to create a world that appears to have been in existence for thousands of years. Not one that was just thrown together in three months.
It has to be a game before it can be a pay-to-win game.
True but all the signs are there pointing to a P2W game if it ever releases. The "alternate fact" spin is cute though.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Again... we can work our way up to the Pay $10,000 to be a King... but let’s start at the bottom.
One of the big selling points listed in the OP is:
"Resources are Finite, hard to collect and cost money for resources and wages. "
Yet you can spend real money to buy those “Finite, hard to collect” resources. This is textbook P2W. Then you can also buy rare ones... How is buying resources with real money not an advantage in a game that says resources are finite and hard to collect?
I'll try again, what does an "advantage" even mean in a game without a finish line? This isn't being designed as your typical themepark with a finite amount of content you pick up and play for maybe 100 hours and then move on to the next. The first character life is only the beginning and it will take several lifetimes to master any of the crafts. Why does it matter what the first life brings for people, other than establishing a world that is alive and vibrant as the game gets moving along?
Throwing money around BLINDLY is total foolishness.
The ONLY way you could ever have your dream game,is if you could design it yourself.
A home builder can build your dream home but it is still YOU the person who handpicks everything from rooms to size of rooms to brick/siding/stone,garage ,sunroom,bedrooms,cabinets,theater room etc etc.
Nobody is going inside each individual brain and designing a game around your thoughts. It really should be common sense because if all thousands of founders each THINK the game is being design around them,there would have to be thousands of renditions of the game which of course is IMPOSSIBLE.
The developer has to design the game from THEIR thoughts,their planning,hopefully the owner actually planned the entire design out BEFORE starting it on a whim.
Short true story.Hollywood actress started a KS'r,said it was top try and bring back a similar show typical of the one she starred in,thousands quickly started to give her money.A few months later it was found out that all she wanted was free money to send her daughter through an expensive private school.I am sure all those people that sent in money had similar dreams of something coming true but soon woke up to reality.
I don't see how what I do with my money is any of your concern? People spend money on many of things. The Stock Market, Recreation, Gambling, Drinking, Holidays, Recreational Vehicles, Summer Cottages you name it. I did my research, I knew the risk and was comfortable with my decision, that is really all that matters because it is my money to spend however I wish. I worked for it.
No matter what Kickstarter game you are talking about they all offer something in return for the public donations. Why would SBS be any different?
Again... we can work our way up to the Pay $10,000 to be a King... but let’s start at the bottom.
One of the big selling points listed in the OP is:
"Resources are Finite, hard to collect and cost money for resources and wages. "
Yet you can spend real money to buy those “Finite, hard to collect” resources. This is textbook P2W. Then you can also buy rare ones... How is buying resources with real money not an advantage in a game that says resources are finite and hard to collect?
Those purchased resources are in turn most likely going to be used by crafters, which adds value to the game for everyone at launch or after, since your Crafters are also your Merchants. Not only that but you are first going to have to learn how to work with those materials before you can create anything of value. It has been stated that becoming a master craftsman could take more than one lifetime to accomplish.
If you think of the game as Pay-to-Build, the building being done during the pre-alpha games and Exposition is to create a world that appears to have been in existence for thousands of years. Not one that was just thrown together in three months.
You still haven’t explained how buying the finite hard to get resources is not an advantage. You have given an example of what they might be used for. I’ll give you another example:
Your town and my town start at the same time. I purchased a ton of resources. You didn’t. Both our towns have 20 players. I start using those resources immediately to create armor and weapons. Your people go out looking for the finite hard to find resources. When you return, my guys are in your town. We kill you with the weapons and armor we used our cash bought resources to create. We take the scant resources you brought back.
Even in your crafter analogy... starting with a vast store of resources is an advantage VS a crafter that starts with no resources and must obtain the finite, hard to collect items in order to progress.
Thats just an example. There is literally no example you can give where starting with finite hard to collect resources is anything but an advantage. I may choose to share that advantage, or I may not. It’s irrelevant to the basic fact that I bought an advantage. If the selling point of the game is that they are finite and hard to get, by definition, having them at start is an advantage.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Throwing money around BLINDLY is total foolishness.
The ONLY way you could ever have your dream game,is if you could design it yourself.
A home builder can build your dream home but it is still YOU the person who handpicks everything from rooms to size of rooms to brick/siding/stone,garage ,sunroom,bedrooms,cabinets,theater room etc etc.
Nobody is going inside each individual brain and designing a game around your thoughts. It really should be common sense because if all thousands of founders each THINK the game is being design around them,there would have to be thousands of renditions of the game which of course is IMPOSSIBLE.
The developer has to design the game from THEIR thoughts,their planning,hopefully the owner actually planned the entire design out BEFORE starting it on a whim.
Short true story.Hollywood actress started a KS'r,said it was top try and bring back a similar show typical of the one she starred in,thousands quickly started to give her money.A few months later it was found out that all she wanted was free money to send her daughter through an expensive private school.I am sure all those people that sent in money had similar dreams of something coming true but soon woke up to reality.
I don't see how what I do with my money is any of your concern? People spend money on many of things. The Stock Market, Recreation, Gambling, Drinking, Holidays, Recreational Vehicles, Summer Cottages you name it. I did my research, I knew the risk and was comfortable with my decision, that is really all that matters because it is my money to spend however I wish. I worked for it.
No matter what Kickstarter game you are talking about they all offer something in return for the public donations. Why would SBS be any different?
Actually... while I wouldn’t trust the guy to wash my car... so far Ashes of Creation has been by far the least P2W of any Kickstarted MMORPG I have seen. Also, they have demonstrated the fasted development of any Kickstarted MMORPG I have seen. Again, I wouldn’t trust the guy with my cash, but he has done what he said he would and he managed to not have a P2W Kickstarter. So it can be done.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Again... we can work our way up to the Pay $10,000 to be a King... but let’s start at the bottom.
One of the big selling points listed in the OP is:
"Resources are Finite, hard to collect and cost money for resources and wages. "
Yet you can spend real money to buy those “Finite, hard to collect” resources. This is textbook P2W. Then you can also buy rare ones... How is buying resources with real money not an advantage in a game that says resources are finite and hard to collect?
Those purchased resources are in turn most likely going to be used by crafters, which adds value to the game for everyone at launch or after, since your Crafters are also your Merchants. Not only that but you are first going to have to learn how to work with those materials before you can create anything of value. It has been stated that becoming a master craftsman could take more than one lifetime to accomplish.
If you think of the game as Pay-to-Build, the building being done during the pre-alpha games and Exposition is to create a world that appears to have been in existence for thousands of years. Not one that was just thrown together in three months.
You still haven’t explained how buying the finite hard to get resources is not an advantage. You have given an example of what they might be used for. I’ll give you another example:
Your town and my town start at the same time. I purchased a ton of resources. You didn’t. Both our towns have 20 players. I start using those resources immediately to create armor and weapons. Your people go out looking for the finite hard to find resources. When you return, my guys are in your town. We kill you with the weapons and armor we used our cash bought resources to create. We take the scant resources you brought back.
Even in your crafter analogy... starting with a vast store of resources is an advantage VS a crafter that starts with no resources and must obtain the finite, hard to collect items in order to progress.
Thats just an example. There is literally no example you can give where starting with finite hard to collect resources is anything but an advantage. I may choose to share that advantage, or I may not. It’s irrelevant to the basic fact that I bought an advantage. If the selling point of the game is that they are finite and hard to get, by definition, having them at start is an advantage.
Actually I did, first off you might have the resources but do you have the skill to put them to use? No, because as two of us have stated here it can take more than one lifetime to acquire that skill. So, you can't start using it immediately as you stated in your example.
Crafters in other towns will have plenty of time to obtain their own resources, patterns and skill before you are able to actually put yours to use.
In addition to that, you are talking about towns (Settlements). Well if you are next door to me than there is a good chance you are part of the same Kingdom/Dutchy/County I am. Therefore you better have a damn good reason for attacking me or you might find yourself without a town. Or we will become allies and possibly share different resources? That, of course, is dependent on several things which leads to a story. If you are in another Kingdom, your resources are not going to directly affect me at all in the short term.
So in the long and short of it, your resources might be a benefit to your Kingdom/Dutchy/County in the long term but it isn't going to have any effect on me in the short term.
I wouldn't pay for any of those. Sell me a complete game or go away. Both of those models are from unfinished games. Can't build without paying extra = missing content from the original price. Paying to win? missing the point of video games.
just a question I think is quite important; What is winning in CoE? Is it being king? If it is, then clearly its p2w, but for me whos only interested in the wvw aspect of the game my objections, or what I would call winning, would be to be a part of the best wvw guild and be recognized as it as well. Im part of call it a major wvw guild in CU, and some of us have also bought CoE (the game only), and for us, thats winning. Whats your ideas of winning?
So why exactly are people paying $10,000 for the king package if there is no advantage? I guess it must be out of the kindness of their heart
The king I spoke to the most often met up with some other dukes and decided they wanted to run things their way so he upgraded. He would constantly say how it was a ton of work and I might also point out that his character's death would be 32x worse on his lifespan in what is meant to be a perma-death game. But basically, he was the guild leader of his kingdom, no more and no less. The hefty price tag helps fund development and ensure that the monarchs are generally working adults and capable of being leaders in the game.
You mean he wanted to run things "his way" and didn't want to earn the right by doing it the hard way "in game" so bought his way to the top so he could start there instead of working his way there.
Sounds like a huge advantage to me.....lol
The "work" isn't about killing the king and taking his spot, it's about filling the position and staying there. It involves every monarch building alliances and engaging in diplomacy within their own kingdom so that the nobles are organized and able to repel the inevitable hordes of people who would only come through after launch. It is a ton of work and he had already put in so much that he began to regret becoming a king. Don't get me wrong, I totally understand your cynicism but it isn't coming from a place of experience in this case.
Ah and being a king and doing what kings do is something he wants but didn't want to work his way to killing the king, lets be real here for a minute his chances of being a king would be far far lower and take lots of time to achieve otherwise no one would fork over 10k for the priviliege and I don't care how much someone wants to support the game..
I have followed this somewhat on and off and a peasant wont just be able to walk up to a king and kill him and take his spot... it would be a huge huge amount of work, organization, luck etc etc before you could even become a king which is what they pay to skip.
I will say it again, it's paying to skip stuff you don't want to do and a huge huge advantage no matter what spin or other reason may be claimed....bottom line you don't fork over 10k or 1k just to support something and not get anything in return.
Basically anyone else coming to play this game with aspirations to be a King will be at a huge disadvantage if they don't buy their place, even if they don't start as a nameless ward of the state and there's no spin that can deny this fact.
It's like slapshot says, finite resources in a pvp oriented sandbox....there's no way any of these higher up packages can be seen as anything OTHER than p2w...
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Again... we can work our way up to the Pay $10,000 to be a King... but let’s start at the bottom.
One of the big selling points listed in the OP is:
"Resources are Finite, hard to collect and cost money for resources and wages. "
Yet you can spend real money to buy those “Finite, hard to collect” resources. This is textbook P2W. Then you can also buy rare ones... How is buying resources with real money not an advantage in a game that says resources are finite and hard to collect?
Those purchased resources are in turn most likely going to be used by crafters, which adds value to the game for everyone at launch or after, since your Crafters are also your Merchants. Not only that but you are first going to have to learn how to work with those materials before you can create anything of value. It has been stated that becoming a master craftsman could take more than one lifetime to accomplish.
If you think of the game as Pay-to-Build, the building being done during the pre-alpha games and Exposition is to create a world that appears to have been in existence for thousands of years. Not one that was just thrown together in three months.
You still haven’t explained how buying the finite hard to get resources is not an advantage. You have given an example of what they might be used for. I’ll give you another example:
Your town and my town start at the same time. I purchased a ton of resources. You didn’t. Both our towns have 20 players. I start using those resources immediately to create armor and weapons. Your people go out looking for the finite hard to find resources. When you return, my guys are in your town. We kill you with the weapons and armor we used our cash bought resources to create. We take the scant resources you brought back.
Even in your crafter analogy... starting with a vast store of resources is an advantage VS a crafter that starts with no resources and must obtain the finite, hard to collect items in order to progress.
Thats just an example. There is literally no example you can give where starting with finite hard to collect resources is anything but an advantage. I may choose to share that advantage, or I may not. It’s irrelevant to the basic fact that I bought an advantage. If the selling point of the game is that they are finite and hard to get, by definition, having them at start is an advantage.
Actually I did, first off you might have the resources but do you have the skill to put them to use? No, because as two of us have stated here it can take more than one lifetime to acquire that skill. So, you can't start using it immediately as you stated in your example.
Crafters in other towns will have plenty of time to obtain their own resources, patterns and skill before you are able to actually put yours to use.
In addition to that, you are talking about towns (Settlements). Well if you are next door to me than that is a good chance you are part of the same Kingdom/Dutchy/County I am. Therefore you better have a damn good reason for attacking me or you might find yourself without a town. Or we will become allies and possibly share different resources? That, of course, is dependent on several things which leads to a story. If you are in another Kingdom, your resources are not going to directly affect just me at all in the short term.
So in the long and short of it, your resources might be a benefit to your Kingdom/Dutchy/County in the long term but it isn't going to have any effect on me in the short term.
No.. you still miss the point. Whatever obstacles you throw out still have to be overcome by all players... they also have to go obtain the finite, hard to collect resources. If there were 5 steps to something and Ican skip one that’s an advantage.
So we establish that buying finite hard to collect resources is an advantage we then go forward to compound them. You mentioned having to obtain patterns.... yes, I also bought those in your cash shop. So now while you are looking for resources and patterns.. I bought both. That’s not all of course. I also bought a legendary technology kit for my school so even my school is better than yours. Oh yeah just to be safe I also bought a legendary military kit to make sure my town is the best defended around. Along the way I also had a ton of village tokens bought with real cash. The more tokens the Mayor receives, the greater the settlement becomes. Each token increases population and, at certain thresholds, tokens will create special Settlement Upgrades that your Mayor can use to increase the city limits, add additional buildings, and more!
As Caspien said: it's imperative that the topic of conversation isn't about whether we're P2W or not. If that becomes the conversation, we've likely already lost the battle - regardless of whether it's true or not.
Are you sure you want to keep bumping and growing this thread?
PS yes I think you can only buy 1 discounted kit but you can buy all the contents ala carte.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I wouldn't pay for any of those. Sell me a complete game or go away. Both of those models are from unfinished games. Can't build without paying extra = missing content from the original price. Paying to win? missing the point of video games.
No one is asking you to Pay-to-Build. Others have already assumed that responsibility and risk by supporting it during creation. So that when and if you were to decide to play the game at launch, it is ready for you. All you would have to do it purchase the basic game, create a character and log in.
The purpose of this thread is to counter what a handful of posters keep using Pay-to-Win to discredit the game.
I wouldn't pay for any of those. Sell me a complete game or go away. Both of those models are from unfinished games. Can't build without paying extra = missing content from the original price. Paying to win? missing the point of video games.
No one is asking you to Pay-to-Build. Others have already assumed that responsibility and risk by supporting it during creation. So that when and if you were to decide to play the game at launch, it is ready for you. All you would have to do it purchase the basic game, create a character and log in.
The purpose of this thread is to counter what a handful of posters keep using Pay-to-Win to discredit the game.
Handful? It’s the vast majority of people who care to look. And it’s not to discredit. You are doing a disservice by trying to wordsmith and pretend it’s other than P2W. Embrace it, open up the revenue stream that is desperately needed. The wordsmithing argument is just turning everyone away from the game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The purpose of this thread is to counter what a handful of posters keep using Pay-to-Win to discredit the game.
No the purpose of this thread is to play spin doctor to try and convince others that this game is NOT p2w when it clearly is.
I will be trying the game out that for sure BUT I have no illusions that I will not be at a serious and I mean serious disadvantage to those that bought these packages that offer clear clear advantages and that IS p2w.
Doesn't mean they will be at the top forever but then p2w doesn't guarantee that and never had to for something to be p2w and this is what you guys and gals somehow want to spin away.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
This seems to be a constant where the Naysayers repeatedly claim (In every thread) that CoE is a pay-to-win game. I know I am opening a can of worms by making this post and setting myself up as a target. But I want to try to clarify the difference to those that are still learning about CoE if I can.
I laugh at P2W cries, I play GW2, where people call mount skins.. not mounts.. not mount upgrades.. just a purely cosmetic skin.. and they call it P2W.
So yah.. I don't give those cries an iota of respect anymore. I'll see it.. I'll play.. and I alone will make a decision if I think it is P2W.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
just a question I think is quite important; What is winning in CoE? Is it being king? If it is, then clearly its p2w, but for me whos only interested in the wvw aspect of the game my objections, or what I would call winning, would be to be a part of the best wvw guild and be recognized as it as well. Im part of call it a major wvw guild in CU, and some of us have also bought CoE (the game only), and for us, thats winning. Whats your ideas of winning?
I would like to elaborate on this post. If your win condition is Just to be King! Then yes I guess you have won by purchasing the package. You can say "I was -King-. But For how long? Well, that is very dependent on your ability to rule, lead, deal with drama, organize and have a vast amount of time to donate to the game. So if your win condition is to be a -successful- King, you will have to work for it. Being a success can't be purchased in the pledge package. See the difference?
Elyria has no end game, therefore everyone's win conditions are going to be different. As Killimondros stated, the group he/she is part of has very different win conditions. So as asked in the above post, what are your Win Conditions?
Comments
Sounds like a huge advantage to me.....lol
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
I also enjoy working with other players and look forward to helping them advance in the areas of their interest.
Do I think for a moment that makes me a winner? Hell no, to me winning would mean that I could be successful in running that County as well as holding onto it for more than a year.
Those are my win conditions but I imagine everyone that has donated to SBS has different Win conditions they are aspiring to.
Myself? I would never want to be a King, to much work and to time-consuming.
One of the big selling points listed in the OP is:
"Resources are Finite, hard to collect and cost money for resources and wages. "
Yet you can spend real money to buy those “Finite, hard to collect” resources. This is textbook P2W. Then you can also buy rare ones... How is buying resources with real money not an advantage in a game that says resources are finite and hard to collect?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
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"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The ONLY way you could ever have your dream game,is if you could design it yourself.
A home builder can build your dream home but it is still YOU the person who handpicks everything from rooms to size of rooms to brick/siding/stone,garage ,sunroom,bedrooms,cabinets,theater room etc etc.
Nobody is going inside each individual brain and designing a game around your thoughts.
It really should be common sense because if all thousands of founders each THINK the game is being design around them,there would have to be thousands of renditions of the game which of course is IMPOSSIBLE.
The developer has to design the game from THEIR thoughts,their planning,hopefully the owner actually planned the entire design out BEFORE starting it on a whim.
Short true story.Hollywood actress started a KS'r,said it was top try and bring back a similar show typical of the one she starred in,thousands quickly started to give her money.A few months later it was found out that all she wanted was free money to send her daughter through an expensive private school.I am sure all those people that sent in money had similar dreams of something coming true but soon woke up to reality.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
If you think of the game as Pay-to-Build, the building being done during the pre-alpha games and Exposition is to create a world that appears to have been in existence for thousands of years. Not one that was just thrown together in three months.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
No matter what Kickstarter game you are talking about they all offer something in return for the public donations. Why would SBS be any different?
Your town and my town start at the same time. I purchased a ton of resources. You didn’t. Both our towns have 20 players. I start using those resources immediately to create armor and weapons. Your people go out looking for the finite hard to find resources. When you return, my guys are in your town. We kill you with the weapons and armor we used our cash bought resources to create. We take the scant resources you brought back.
Even in your crafter analogy... starting with a vast store of resources is an advantage VS a crafter that starts with no resources and must obtain the finite, hard to collect items in order to progress.
Thats just an example. There is literally no example you can give where starting with finite hard to collect resources is anything but an advantage. I may choose to share that advantage, or I may not. It’s irrelevant to the basic fact that I bought an advantage. If the selling point of the game is that they are finite and hard to get, by definition, having them at start is an advantage.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Crafters in other towns will have plenty of time to obtain their own resources, patterns and skill before you are able to actually put yours to use.
In addition to that, you are talking about towns (Settlements). Well if you are next door to me than there is a good chance you are part of the same Kingdom/Dutchy/County I am. Therefore you better have a damn good reason for attacking me or you might find yourself without a town. Or we will become allies and possibly share different resources? That, of course, is dependent on several things which leads to a story. If you are in another Kingdom, your resources are not going to directly affect me at all in the short term.
So in the long and short of it, your resources might be a benefit to your Kingdom/Dutchy/County in the long term but it isn't going to have any effect on me in the short term.
I wouldn't pay for any of those. Sell me a complete game or go away. Both of those models are from unfinished games. Can't build without paying extra = missing content from the original price. Paying to win? missing the point of video games.
I have followed this somewhat on and off and a peasant wont just be able to walk up to a king and kill him and take his spot... it would be a huge huge amount of work, organization, luck etc etc before you could even become a king which is what they pay to skip.
I will say it again, it's paying to skip stuff you don't want to do and a huge huge advantage no matter what spin or other reason may be claimed....bottom line you don't fork over 10k or 1k just to support something and not get anything in return.
Basically anyone else coming to play this game with aspirations to be a King will be at a huge disadvantage if they don't buy their place, even if they don't start as a nameless ward of the state and there's no spin that can deny this fact.
It's like slapshot says, finite resources in a pvp oriented sandbox....there's no way any of these higher up packages can be seen as anything OTHER than p2w...
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
So we establish that buying finite hard to collect resources is an advantage we then go forward to compound them. You mentioned having to obtain patterns.... yes, I also bought those in your cash shop. So now while you are looking for resources and patterns.. I bought both. That’s not all of course. I also bought a legendary technology kit for my school so even my school is better than yours. Oh yeah just to be safe I also bought a legendary military kit to make sure my town is the best defended around. Along the way I also had a ton of village tokens bought with real cash. The more tokens the Mayor receives, the greater the settlement becomes. Each token increases population and, at certain thresholds, tokens will create special Settlement Upgrades that your Mayor can use to increase the city limits, add additional buildings, and more!
As Caspien said:
it's imperative that the topic of conversation isn't about whether we're P2W or not. If that becomes the conversation, we've likely already lost the battle - regardless of whether it's true or not.
Are you sure you want to keep bumping and growing this thread?
PS yes I think you can only buy 1 discounted kit but you can buy all the contents ala carte.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The purpose of this thread is to counter what a handful of posters keep using Pay-to-Win to discredit the game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I will be trying the game out that for sure BUT I have no illusions that I will not be at a serious and I mean serious disadvantage to those that bought these packages that offer clear clear advantages and that IS p2w.
Doesn't mean they will be at the top forever but then p2w doesn't guarantee that and never had to for something to be p2w and this is what you guys and gals somehow want to spin away.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
So yah.. I don't give those cries an iota of respect anymore. I'll see it.. I'll play.. and I alone will make a decision if I think it is P2W.
Elyria has no end game, therefore everyone's win conditions are going to be different. As Killimondros stated, the group he/she is part of has very different win conditions. So as asked in the above post, what are your Win Conditions?