A lot of people confuse "dynamic combat" with "action combat" and a lot of companies make it seem like they are the same (for PR). Making the game so that you have to pay attention and aren't just turreting from one spot is good. This is doable with both tab targeting and "FPS-like" combat system.
That's, frankly, exactly what those games are implementing - in an attempt tot leach players from that genre due to the saturation of MMORPGs on the market spreading the core audience thin.
MMOs like ESO (to use another example) are nearly indistinguishable to me from FPS games. They just require 10x as many buttons to play. Why should I bother to play that when I can play Destiny II and get better PvE and still play PvP, for example?
And the Dodge fest that is GW2 has seen a lot of criticism from this. The majority of your surviveability depends on how fast you can dodge, since even trash MOBs do inordinate amounts of HP. It's literally all the game is about - anticipating and dodging. They talk about this like it's what end-game gameplay is balanced around on their own website.
In any case, Tab Targetting continues to be more widely accepted by MMORPG players than Action Combat, which is why developers are actually starting to backtrack back to it - even though some of the loud voices on the forums call it "old style." A lot of the Action Combat FAD has to do with the "appearance" of evolution and the attempts to rope in gamers from other genres to grow the market.
I cannot say that it has been very successful.
A non tab targeting system, at its core is about "not getting hit"/"blocking" and "hitting".
Thank you Sovrath. With that line, you have said it all in a nutshell.
Given the option of being able to do both in the same game, if you can do the above while in combat, its ACTION COMBAT. The mere act of being able to tab from one mob to another does not, in and of itself, render it tab target if one is able to manually dodge, block, and hit while being mobile.
And while that point Sovrath makes is true , my point here is that all the games on the list i provided and MANY more do not offer that option .. you CANNOT dodge/block or maneuver to hit ..Nearly every game on that list but 4
The majority of players in MMORPGs today are using a TAb TArget system that DOEs NOT let you do any of those things ..
I happen to enjoy both systems and have max lvl in all of the Popular action games out there .. But i find more challenge in Anarchy Online than any of those games...
Both systems are fun and have there fun-factor , but action game systems feel overly simplified to me , mostly consisting of Spam fests of a limited (most effective ) skills
How about when your act of blocking or dodging is tied to a dice roll. Meaning your actual physical skill of hitting a key on the keyboard has nothing to do with whether you get hit or not because the odds are calculated and then decided. So you might hit dodge and block with a shield but if the dice roll decides you missed you still get hit....what type category is that game in?
That would be classic tab target combat.
In other words, tabbing and locking on a target and doing nothing else but standing there and letting RNG decide your dodge, block, parry etc., according to your gear or assigned points in those combat related categories.
How about when your act of blocking or dodging is tied to a dice roll. Meaning your actual physical skill of hitting a key on the keyboard has nothing to do with whether you get hit or not because the odds are calculated and then decided. So you might hit dodge and block with a shield but if the dice roll decides you missed you still get hit....what type category is that game in?
That would be classic tab target combat.
In other words, tabbing and locking on a target and doing nothing else but standing there and letting RNG decide your dodge, block, parry etc., according to your gear or assigned points in those combat related categories.
LOL ... I was actually thinking about this the other day. I've been taking a break from mmos (due to waiting on a new fresh vanilla server launch March 31) and casually playing my fps game Day of Infamy.
This made me think of action mmos and BDO is one great example. I actually think BDO has the BEST action combat I have ever played in any mmo. I also think it is a totally shit mmorpg aside from that for many reasons that I won't go into right now.
My focus of thought though was on the action combat which is basically a cursor with active aiming and some reactive defensives. This means, no matter now many abilities you can use, you aim, click a button and move. At it's most basic level, its much like playing an FPS like Day of Infamy but a little more lax on pure accuracy.
I came to understand that action combat in mmos can be summorized/distilled into the following statement:
- Action combat is: POINT AND CLICK.
There really is not more to it. Of course movement is involved and the timing of when you click things but that's it. It's isn't an evolution of mmo gaming. BDO, likely the most complex and twitchy action combat in any mmo, is nothing more than combo combat games consoles had for decades along with aiming your cursor like in an FPS game. I could also use ESO as an example. No matter what class I pick it's just clicking different abilities fast be it melee or ranged.
So why is it considered a high skill cap system? Well, because it's entirely up to the individual's coordination which varies wildly between people. But, IF you have good reaction timing you can master the combat easily just like any good FPS player can pop into any other FPS game and quickly master it. The skill curve is actually rather low because the system is mostly based upon the innate ability of the player.
Speaking for myself, someone who grew up playing competitive sports, continued into sports well into my 30's and put endless hours of practice into highly twitch style sports (like badminton ... seriously go watch pro badminton and see their reaction time), I discovered my fast twitch skills translated very, very well in to fast twitch games. So when I play a game like BDO I adapt to it well and after countless hours of playing action mmos discover one universal truth: THEY END UP BORING ME TO DEATH!
I point, I click, I move. I point, I click, I move. And clicking is never anything more than knowing some combos for various situations and spamming abilities as fast as one can possibly get them off. This is called muscle memory and thinking is something you actually want to limit.
So if I am good, why do I find it boring and unfulfilling in an mmorpg? Because it actually isn't very strategic once you think about it. Too much emphasis in put on player skill and strategic mechanics don't have to be build into the game itself. The more you limit physical requirements the more you emphasize mental requirements through choice.
We may see a very good example of this once Camelot Unchained launches where it combines slower mmorpg style combat with modern physics and FPS style choices. Older mmorpgs still provide a good example however because they play out more like a game of chess where each move you choose has painful consequences if chosen wrong. Standing in the wrong place, winding up a long charge ability could put you at risk of severe push back, vulnerable to a long CC and outside of group mates with class abilities you require for protection. It's like an action combat version of chess ... not an FPS. One becomes more the general of a battlefield and less the grunt.
That is what action combat lacks badly. They offer 2 entirely different styles of combat and game play. In the long run, as in playing an mmorpg for years, I GREATLY prefer a more tactical thinking game. A game where (if the proper interface could be made) Stephen Hawking could master through his mind rather than using physical skills which obviously he couldn't. Perhaps the best would be to combine these styles somewhat to find a balance.
In general however, the more an mmo tries to be pure action combat, the faster I lose interest because the learning curve is shallow relying upon my own physical skill set over the tool that ultimately will always have the steepest learning curve to master ... the brain.
How about when your act of blocking or dodging is tied to a dice roll. Meaning your actual physical skill of hitting a key on the keyboard has nothing to do with whether you get hit or not because the odds are calculated and then decided. So you might hit dodge and block with a shield but if the dice roll decides you missed you still get hit....what type category is that game in?
That would be classic tab target combat.
In other words, tabbing and locking on a target and doing nothing else but standing there and letting RNG decide your dodge, block, parry etc., according to your gear or assigned points in those combat related categories.
Which is the majority system used by gamers today
Yes, and how can we believe anything credible related to action combat vs tab target from the same poster who assertively argued vehemently that ESO is also a tab target combat game. Apparently, according to the above said poster, every game is a tab target combat game.
Don't feel too bad. Given the comments of several others in this thread, you ain't alone.
How about when your act of blocking or dodging is tied to a dice roll. Meaning your actual physical skill of hitting a key on the keyboard has nothing to do with whether you get hit or not because the odds are calculated and then decided. So you might hit dodge and block with a shield but if the dice roll decides you missed you still get hit....what type category is that game in?
That would be classic tab target combat.
In other words, tabbing and locking on a target and doing nothing else but standing there and letting RNG decide your dodge, block, parry etc., according to your gear or assigned points in those combat related categories.
Which is the majority system used by gamers today
Yes, and how can we believe anything credible related to action combat vs tab target from the same poster who assertively argued vehemently that ESO is also a tab target combat game. Apparently, according to said poster, every game is tab target combat game.
Nice reach .. But false .. I said ESO range combat feels Tab Target and does to me . And is confirmed In the point that Sovrath made that you agree with ..
In ESO if i Mouse over you or Tab Target you , once you are targeted .. You can run into a building .. Behind a tree .. jump off a fucking cliff, hide behind your mothers skirt ....
And that arrow will still hit you .. Hence ... why i said it has a Tab Target feel to it ..
Interesting how you left out that i said .. Overall ESO feels like an Action game but the ranged combat falls short for me ..
You left that out intentionally i am certain .. good try ........ 2/10
Now show me where i....."assertively argued vehemently"
you cant ....................... maybe a nap is in order
How about when your act of blocking or dodging is tied to a dice roll. Meaning your actual physical skill of hitting a key on the keyboard has nothing to do with whether you get hit or not because the odds are calculated and then decided. So you might hit dodge and block with a shield but if the dice roll decides you missed you still get hit....what type category is that game in?
That would be classic tab target combat.
In other words, tabbing and locking on a target and doing nothing else but standing there and letting RNG decide your dodge, block, parry etc., according to your gear or assigned points in those combat related categories.
Which is the majority system used by gamers today
Yes, and how can we believe anything credible related to action combat vs tab target from the same poster who assertively argued vehemently that ESO is also a tab target combat game. Apparently, according to the above said poster, every game is a tab target combat game.
Don't feel too bad. According to this thread, you ain't alone.
ESO is a tab target type of game though, why is that even in contention? action combat is a completely different type of gameplay, whether you press a key to dodge or not has no relevance and does not make a game action combat. One example of an Action Combat game is BDO, the most obvious example of a tab target game is WoW, there is however a lot of games that fall somewhere in between these two types of games, but if you had to say which one ESO is closer to it would be WoW, not BDO.
How about when your act of blocking or dodging is tied to a dice roll. Meaning your actual physical skill of hitting a key on the keyboard has nothing to do with whether you get hit or not because the odds are calculated and then decided. So you might hit dodge and block with a shield but if the dice roll decides you missed you still get hit....what type category is that game in?
That would be classic tab target combat.
In other words, tabbing and locking on a target and doing nothing else but standing there and letting RNG decide your dodge, block, parry etc., according to your gear or assigned points in those combat related categories.
Which is the majority system used by gamers today
Yes, and how can we believe anything credible related to action combat vs tab target from the same poster who assertively argued vehemently that ESO is also a tab target combat game. Apparently, according to said poster, every game is tab target combat game.
Nice reach .. But false .. I said ESO range combat feels Tab Target and does to me . And is confirmed In the point that Sovrath made that you agree with ..
In ESO if i Mouse over you or Tab Target you , once you are targeted .. You can run into a building .. Behind a tree .. jump off a fucking cliff, hide behind your mothers skirt ....
And that arrow will still hit you .. Hence ... why i said it has a Tab Target feel to it ..
Interesting how you left out that is aid .. Overall ESO feels like an Action game but the ranged combat falls short for me ..
You left that out intentionally i am certain .. good try ........ 2/10
Now now, you now the thread is there to be copy pasted that will reveal the truth right?
Again, action combat is defined by what you, as the player does before you launch your skill attack, not what the skill attack does after you launch it. Your stance is wholly contradictory of what Sovrath said that I agreed with. Since what he said and I agreed with has everything to do with mobility during combat and nothing to do with the trajectory of, say, an arrow, after you have launched your attack.
How about when your act of blocking or dodging is tied to a dice roll. Meaning your actual physical skill of hitting a key on the keyboard has nothing to do with whether you get hit or not because the odds are calculated and then decided. So you might hit dodge and block with a shield but if the dice roll decides you missed you still get hit....what type category is that game in?
That would be classic tab target combat.
In other words, tabbing and locking on a target and doing nothing else but standing there and letting RNG decide your dodge, block, parry etc., according to your gear or assigned points in those combat related categories.
Which is the majority system used by gamers today
Yes, and how can we believe anything credible related to action combat vs tab target from the same poster who assertively argued vehemently that ESO is also a tab target combat game. Apparently, according to the above said poster, every game is a tab target combat game.
Don't feel too bad. According to this thread, you ain't alone.
ESO is a tab target type of game though, why is that even in contention? action combat is a completely different type of gameplay, whether you press a key to dodge or not has no relevance and does not make a game action combat. One example of an Action Combat game is BDO, the most obvious example of a tab target game is WoW, there is however a lot of games that fall somewhere in between these two types of games, but if you had to say which one ESO is closer to it would be WoW, not BDO.
Because ESO is not tab target.
Again, tab target combat is not defined simply because you are able to tab target from one target to another. Tab target combat is defined by targeting and locking on a mob, and standing there while initiating combat, and allowing RNG to determine whether you block, parry, dodge etc.
If you are actively and manually blocking, dodging, moving while targeting and striking while in combat, this is ACTION COMBAT. There really is no in between. Just because you are able to tab from one mob to another while in combat does not, in an of itself, make it tab target.
Some games give you the option of which combat you want to utilize at the beginning of the game. As a matter of fact, ESO, Revelation Online and others even give you the option at the beginning of the game. And they clearly state whether you want action combat or tab targeting style of combat. There is a distinct difference between the two styles of combat.
How about when your act of blocking or dodging is tied to a dice roll. Meaning your actual physical skill of hitting a key on the keyboard has nothing to do with whether you get hit or not because the odds are calculated and then decided. So you might hit dodge and block with a shield but if the dice roll decides you missed you still get hit....what type category is that game in?
That would be classic tab target combat.
In other words, tabbing and locking on a target and doing nothing else but standing there and letting RNG decide your dodge, block, parry etc., according to your gear or assigned points in those combat related categories.
Which is the majority system used by gamers today
Yes, and how can we believe anything credible related to action combat vs tab target from the same poster who assertively argued vehemently that ESO is also a tab target combat game. Apparently, according to said poster, every game is tab target combat game.
Nice reach .. But false .. I said ESO range combat feels Tab Target and does to me . And is confirmed In the point that Sovrath made that you agree with ..
In ESO if i Mouse over you or Tab Target you , once you are targeted .. You can run into a building .. Behind a tree .. jump off a fucking cliff, hide behind your mothers skirt ....
And that arrow will still hit you .. Hence ... why i said it has a Tab Target feel to it ..
Interesting how you left out that is aid .. Overall ESO feels like an Action game but the ranged combat falls short for me ..
You left that out intentionally i am certain .. good try ........ 2/10
Now now, you now the thread is there to be copy pasted that will reveal the truth right?
Again, action combat is defined by what you, as the player does before you launch your skill attack, not what the skill attack does after you launch it. Your stance is wholly contradictory of what Sovrath said that I agreed with. Since what he said and I agreed with has everything to do with mobility during combat and nothing to do with the trajectory of, say, an arrow, after you have launched your attack.
I have a feeling that we have different ideas about what constitutes Action Combat, as for me, action combat is far more fluid and you are not able to tab target in any manner, arrows for example should not curve to follow a target but instead go where they were aimed, if the enemy has moved from that point of aim, then it is an automatic miss, at no point should the arrow curve direction to follow the target, unless of course some magical skill is involved that would give an arrow that kind of ability, if it does, then its not an action combat type of game but one of the more traditional tab targetting ones, the most obvious example of this is that when you press the tab key it selects another enemy or targetable entity, this does not happen in action combat games where there is no option to tab target.
How about when your act of blocking or dodging is tied to a dice roll. Meaning your actual physical skill of hitting a key on the keyboard has nothing to do with whether you get hit or not because the odds are calculated and then decided. So you might hit dodge and block with a shield but if the dice roll decides you missed you still get hit....what type category is that game in?
That would be classic tab target combat.
In other words, tabbing and locking on a target and doing nothing else but standing there and letting RNG decide your dodge, block, parry etc., according to your gear or assigned points in those combat related categories.
Which is the majority system used by gamers today
Yes, and how can we believe anything credible related to action combat vs tab target from the same poster who assertively argued vehemently that ESO is also a tab target combat game. Apparently, according to said poster, every game is tab target combat game.
Nice reach .. But false .. I said ESO range combat feels Tab Target and does to me . And is confirmed In the point that Sovrath made that you agree with ..
In ESO if i Mouse over you or Tab Target you , once you are targeted .. You can run into a building .. Behind a tree .. jump off a fucking cliff, hide behind your mothers skirt ....
And that arrow will still hit you .. Hence ... why i said it has a Tab Target feel to it ..
Interesting how you left out that is aid .. Overall ESO feels like an Action game but the ranged combat falls short for me ..
You left that out intentionally i am certain .. good try ........ 2/10
Now now, you now the thread is there to be copy pasted that will reveal the truth right?
Again, action combat is defined by what you, as the player does before you launch your skill attack, not what the skill attack does after you launch it. Your stance is wholly contradictory of what Sovrath said that I agreed with. Since what he said and I agreed with has everything to do with mobility during combat and nothing to do with the trajectory of, say, an arrow, after you have launched your attack.
Now now, you now the thread is there to be copy pasted that will reveal the truth right?
Again, action combat is defined by what you, as the player does before you launch your skill attack, not what the skill attack does after you launch it. Your stance is wholly contradictory of what Sovrath said that I agreed with. Since what he said and I agreed with has everything to do with mobility during combat and nothing to do with the trajectory of, say, an arrow, after you have launched your attack.
I have a feeling that we have different ideas about what constitutes Action Combat, as for me, action combat is far more fluid and you are not able to tab target in any manner, arrows for example should not curve to follow a target but instead go where they were aimed, if the enemy has moved from that point of aim, then it is an automatic miss, at no point should the arrow curve direction to follow the target, unless of course some magical skill is involved that would give an arrow that kind of ability, if it does, then its not an action combat type of game but one of the more traditional tab targetting ones, the most obvious example of this is that when you press the tab key it selects another enemy or targetable entity, this does not happen in action combat games where there is no option to tab target.
There is no doubt that we have different ideas, or interpretations, of what constitutes Action Combat. Yet, the very words, "Action Combat," mean exactly how it reads. If you are in action while in combat, then its action combat. Its really just that simple. Anything else is just reading into it.
Again, action combat is the action that a player is taking while in combat, not what the trajectory of the skill initiated takes after the attack has been initiated. It also has nothing to do with the fact that prior to launching your attack, you are able to tab from one target to another.
Tab target combat is tabbing and locking unto a target, and simply keying a skill and allowing RNG to determine combat actions depending on gear or point assignations to specific combat skills such as dodge, parry, block, etc.
"Tab target combat is tabbing and locking unto a target, and simply
keying a skill and allowing RNG to determine combat actions depending on
gear or point assignations to specific combat skills such as dodge,
parry, block, etc. "
this is Exactly what ESO range combat does .................aint that rich
Nice reach .. But false .. I said ESO range combat feels Tab Target and does to me . And is confirmed In the point that Sovrath made that you agree with ..
In ESO if i Mouse over you or Tab Target you , once you are targeted .. You can run into a building .. Behind a tree .. jump off a fucking cliff, hide behind your mothers skirt ....
And that arrow will still hit you .. Hence ... why i said it has a Tab Target feel to it ..
Interesting how you left out that is aid .. Overall ESO feels like an Action game but the ranged combat falls short for me ..
You left that out intentionally i am certain .. good try ........ 2/10
Now now, you now the thread is there to be copy pasted that will reveal the truth right?
Again, action combat is defined by what you, as the player does before you launch your skill attack, not what the skill attack does after you launch it. Your stance is wholly contradictory of what Sovrath said that I agreed with. Since what he said and I agreed with has everything to do with mobility during combat and nothing to do with the trajectory of, say, an arrow, after you have launched your attack.
That doesn't even make sense. At no time while playing ESO have I ever needed to tab target lock on any mob. I don't even think its possible. A game's combat is either tab target or action combat. It simply can not be both at the same time. Now some games may give the player an option of either combat style when they initially begin playing the game, and I can't recall whether ESO is one of them, but either way you can not employ both while in combat.
yes you can .. ESO is a hybrid , and you can Tab a target and watch arrows make some pretty neat turns
I have a Bow NB and I have never tab targeted on any mob with my bow while engaged in combat. If you choose to do that, its on you, because its definitely not necessary unless of course you chose tab targeting as your combat option at the beginning of the game.
I dont , but you can ... and even without , then you have seen your arrowr trails make those dogleg turns .. this is not indicative of pure action combat
Of course its pure action combat. Its as pure as any other MMOs action combat. Like I said, I have a bow NB. I should know. And I have never employed anything resembling tab target combat. Might want to tryanother one of the oft mentioned ESO criticisms that also make no sense because, you know, well ... haters.
erhmm I like ESO , sitting currently at CP 300 , you are mistaken on both counts .. Its not pure action .. Not when you arrows Lock on targets for ex...
I think you are confusing action combat and twitch combat. The latter involving say arrows going straight and having to lead targets etc
Im not confusing anything , seems some here want to make some of the combat in ESO something it is not ..
When you lock a target and arrows and spells turn cornerr, or the arrow or spell chases the Target in a dog-leg, that is indicative and classic Tab Target function ..(And doesn not feel very actiony)
And yes you dont have to Tab for this to work just targeting will cause the arrow to follow the target around corners .. This is a Tab target function..(and does not feel very Actiony)
When i can fire an arrow and hit an enemy that runs into a building , that is indicative and classic Tab Target function ..(and again this does not feel action )
There melee has a much better Action combat feel to it , but the Archery ands some of the spellcasting does not IMO and in my experience (which is currently 300CP)
Now does the overall feel of ESO combat feel action , i would say yes , but the range stuff falls flat IMO
Now i enjoy ESO and play it since launch but i also accept its flaws , seems some here are really offended if the flaws in there internet girlfriend are pointed out ..
Its ok if she has flaws , they all do , just love her for what she is
I am also hopefull that update 17 will improve the combat , seems the devs at least think there is alot of room for improvement to there system That all being said , I like ESO its a really good game in many ways , but there is room for improvement in alot of areas ..
Nice reach .. But false .. I said ESO range combat feels Tab Target and does to me . And is confirmed In the point that Sovrath made that you agree with ..
In ESO if i Mouse over you or Tab Target you , once you are targeted .. You can run into a building .. Behind a tree .. jump off a fucking cliff, hide behind your mothers skirt ....
And that arrow will still hit you .. Hence ... why i said it has a Tab Target feel to it ..
Interesting how you left out that is aid .. Overall ESO feels like an Action game but the ranged combat falls short for me ..
You left that out intentionally i am certain .. good try ........ 2/10
Now now, you now the thread is there to be copy pasted that will reveal the truth right?
Again, action combat is defined by what you, as the player does before you launch your skill attack, not what the skill attack does after you launch it. Your stance is wholly contradictory of what Sovrath said that I agreed with. Since what he said and I agreed with has everything to do with mobility during combat and nothing to do with the trajectory of, say, an arrow, after you have launched your attack.
That doesn't even make sense. At no time while playing ESO have I ever needed to tab target lock on any mob. I don't even think its possible. A game's combat is either tab target or action combat. It simply can not be both at the same time. Now some games may give the player an option of either combat style when they initially begin playing the game, and I can't recall whether ESO is one of them, but either way you can not employ both while in combat.
yes you can .. ESO is a hybrid , and you can Tab a target and watch arrows make some pretty neat turns
I have a Bow NB and I have never tab targeted on any mob with my bow while engaged in combat. If you choose to do that, its on you, because its definitely not necessary unless of course you chose tab targeting as your combat option at the beginning of the game.
I dont , but you can ... and even without , then you have seen your arrowr trails make those dogleg turns .. this is not indicative of pure action combat
Of course its pure action combat. Its as pure as any other MMOs action combat. Like I said, I have a bow NB. I should know. And I have never employed anything resembling tab target combat. Might want to tryanother one of the oft mentioned ESO criticisms that also make no sense because, you know, well ... haters.
erhmm I like ESO , sitting currently at CP 300 , you are mistaken on both counts .. Its not pure action .. Not when you arrows Lock on targets for ex...
I think you are confusing action combat and twitch combat. The latter involving say arrows going straight and having to lead targets etc
Im not confusing anything , seems some here want to make some of the combat in ESO something it is not ..
When you lock a target and arrows and spells turn cornerr, or the arrow or spell chases the Target in a dog-leg, that is indicative and classic Tab Target function ..(And doesn not feel very actiony)
And yes you dont have to Tab for this to work just targeting will cause the arrow to follow the target around corners .. This is a Tab target function..(and does not feel very Actiony)
When i can fire an arrow and hit an enemy that runs into a building , that is indicative and classic Tab Target function ..(and again this does not feel action )
There melee has a much better Action combat feel to it , but the Archery ands some of the spellcasting does not IMO and in my experience (which is currently 300CP)
Now does the overall feel of ESO combat feel action , i would say yes , but the range stuff falls flat IMO
Now i enjoy ESO and play it since launch but i also accept its flaws , seems some here are really offended if the flaws in there internet girlfriend are pointed out ..
Its ok if she has flaws , they all do , just love her for what she is
I am also hopefull that update 17 will improve the combat , seems the devs at least think there is alot of room for improvement to there system That all being said , I like ESO its a really good game in many ways , but there is room for improvement in alot of areas ..
Dare accepted.
LMFAO .. no really .. can you read at all , you only confirmed what i said .... I really suggest you read it SLOWLY and then show me where i ...
"assertively argued vehemently"
Anyone that reads that would surmise that ...
Scorch Likes ESO The Overall feel of ESo is actiony The Ranged does not share that same feel to him he enjoys ESO And hopes future updates will adrress these issues ...
I think you are confusing action combat and twitch combat. The latter involving say arrows going straight and having to lead targets etc
Im not confusing anything , seems some here want to make some of the combat in ESO something it is not ..
When you lock a target and arrows and spells turn cornerr, or the arrow or spell chases the Target in a dog-leg, that is indicative and classic Tab Target function ..(And doesn not feel very actiony)
And yes you dont have to Tab for this to work just targeting will cause the arrow to follow the target around corners .. This is a Tab target function..(and does not feel very Actiony)
When i can fire an arrow and hit an enemy that runs into a building , that is indicative and classic Tab Target function ..(and again this does not feel action )
There melee has a much better Action combat feel to it , but the Archery ands some of the spellcasting does not IMO and in my experience (which is currently 300CP)
Now does the overall feel of ESO combat feel action , i would say yes , but the range stuff falls flat IMO
Now i enjoy ESO and play it since launch but i also accept its flaws , seems some here are really offended if the flaws in there internet girlfriend are pointed out ..
Its ok if she has flaws , they all do , just love her for what she is
I am also hopefull that update 17 will improve the combat , seems the devs at least think there is alot of room for improvement to there system That all being said , I like ESO its a really good game in many ways , but there is room for improvement in alot of areas ..
Dare accepted.
LMFAO .. no really .. can you read at all , you only confirmed what i said .... I really suggest you read it SLOWLY and then show me where i ...
"assertively argued vehemently"
Anyone that reads that would surmise that ...
Scorch Likes ESO The Overall feel of ESo is actiony The Ranged does not share that same feel to him he enjoys ESO And hopes future updates will adrress these issues ...
you need a nap
and im changing your score to 1/10 ..
Barely worth the effort
"Im not confusing anything , seems some here want to make some of the combat in ESO something it is not ..
When you lock a target and arrows and spells turn cornerr, or the arrow or spell chases the Target in a dog-leg, that is indicative and classic Tab Target function ..(And doesn not feel very actiony).
And yes you dont have to Tab for this to work just targeting will cause the arrow to follow the target around corners .. This is a Tab target function..(and does not feel very Actiony)
When i can fire an arrow and hit an enemy that runs into a building , that is indicative and classic Tab Target function ..(and again this does not feel action )"
It's getting pretty bad when one has to copy paste a copy paste from a post quoted directly in the quoted post. I bolded some of it this time. Maybe that will sink in. Highly doubtful though. One thing I can say for you, you are resilient.
I think you are confusing action combat and twitch combat. The latter involving say arrows going straight and having to lead targets etc
Im not confusing anything , seems some here want to make some of the combat in ESO something it is not ..
When you lock a target and arrows and spells turn cornerr, or the arrow or spell chases the Target in a dog-leg, that is indicative and classic Tab Target function ..(And doesn not feel very actiony)
And yes you dont have to Tab for this to work just targeting will cause the arrow to follow the target around corners .. This is a Tab target function..(and does not feel very Actiony)
When i can fire an arrow and hit an enemy that runs into a building , that is indicative and classic Tab Target function ..(and again this does not feel action )
There melee has a much better Action combat feel to it , but the Archery ands some of the spellcasting does not IMO and in my experience (which is currently 300CP)
Now does the overall feel of ESO combat feel action , i would say yes , but the range stuff falls flat IMO
Now i enjoy ESO and play it since launch but i also accept its flaws , seems some here are really offended if the flaws in there internet girlfriend are pointed out ..
Its ok if she has flaws , they all do , just love her for what she is
I am also hopefull that update 17 will improve the combat , seems the devs at least think there is alot of room for improvement to there system That all being said , I like ESO its a really good game in many ways , but there is room for improvement in alot of areas ..
Dare accepted.
LMFAO .. no really .. can you read at all , you only confirmed what i said .... I really suggest you read it SLOWLY and then show me where i ...
"assertively argued vehemently"
Anyone that reads that would surmise that ...
Scorch Likes ESO The Overall feel of ESo is actiony The Ranged does not share that same feel to him he enjoys ESO And hopes future updates will adrress these issues ...
you need a nap
and im changing your score to 1/10 ..
Barely worth the effort
"Im not confusing anything , seems some here want to make some of the combat in ESO something it is not ..
When you lock a target and arrows and spells turn cornerr, or the arrow or spell chases the Target in a dog-leg, that is indicative and classic Tab Target function ..(And doesn not feel very actiony)"
It's getting pretty bad when one has to copy paste a copy paste from a post quoted directly in the quoted post.
Those are facts .... and no where is it ""assertively argued vehemently" as you were asked to provide ..you failed again .. And this thread is really a bad look for you
I think you are confusing action combat and twitch combat. The latter involving say arrows going straight and having to lead targets etc
Im not confusing anything , seems some here want to make some of the combat in ESO something it is not ..
When you lock a target and arrows and spells turn cornerr, or the arrow or spell chases the Target in a dog-leg, that is indicative and classic Tab Target function ..(And doesn not feel very actiony)
And yes you dont have to Tab for this to work just targeting will cause the arrow to follow the target around corners .. This is a Tab target function..(and does not feel very Actiony)
When i can fire an arrow and hit an enemy that runs into a building , that is indicative and classic Tab Target function ..(and again this does not feel action )
There melee has a much better Action combat feel to it , but the Archery ands some of the spellcasting does not IMO and in my experience (which is currently 300CP)
Now does the overall feel of ESO combat feel action , i would say yes , but the range stuff falls flat IMO
Now i enjoy ESO and play it since launch but i also accept its flaws , seems some here are really offended if the flaws in there internet girlfriend are pointed out ..
Its ok if she has flaws , they all do , just love her for what she is
I am also hopefull that update 17 will improve the combat , seems the devs at least think there is alot of room for improvement to there system That all being said , I like ESO its a really good game in many ways , but there is room for improvement in alot of areas ..
Dare accepted.
LMFAO .. no really .. can you read at all , you only confirmed what i said .... I really suggest you read it SLOWLY and then show me where i ...
"assertively argued vehemently"
Anyone that reads that would surmise that ...
Scorch Likes ESO The Overall feel of ESo is actiony The Ranged does not share that same feel to him he enjoys ESO And hopes future updates will adrress these issues ...
you need a nap
and im changing your score to 1/10 ..
Barely worth the effort
"Im not confusing anything , seems some here want to make some of the combat in ESO something it is not ..
When you lock a target and arrows and spells turn cornerr, or the arrow or spell chases the Target in a dog-leg, that is indicative and classic Tab Target function ..(And doesn not feel very actiony)"
It's getting pretty bad when one has to copy paste a copy paste from a post quoted directly in the quoted post.
Those are facts .... and no where is it ""assertively argued vehemently" as you were asked to provide ..you failed again .. And this thread is really a bad look for you
I just get a little snarky when it seems nearly every new MMO has action combat in some form or another. If I believe we players should have choices, where is my preferred choice for combat in new games?
True but look at it from a different angle.
This has more to do with technological leaps. It's not like the first games eschewed "action combat" because tab targeting just completely fulfilled their vision of the game!
Also, I've always hated tab target. Even in single player games (as I mentioned above). It would have been pretty ridiculous of me to say "where are my choices??!?!?"
It just wasn't possible.
Now that it's possible and developers see that there is a market for it, they want to do it.
Keep in mind that the only game I am really looking forward to is Pantheon and that's tab target. I know this and I'm of the mind that one must sort of be on board for how a game is. If one isn't then they are doing themselves a disservice and wasting their time and money.
Still doesn't mean I don't like it. But I'm not going to be running to boards and complain.
Great points! Also, it is just better business as it seems more players want action combat over tab targeting. I can't blame companies for that decision
What tab targeting does for me is separate me from my character. Action combat is all me. No matter how great my character is with a sword, *I* will still be looking at the ground, up in the air, to the left or right of my target. This breaks immersion for me as my "Master Swordsman" has trouble hitting the broad side of a barn
Now, tab targeting is by no means perfect (spells that follow targets around corners for one), but I prefer it for the separation between me and my character that it gives
PS: Also, tab targeting is not an "auto hit", as one must be facing at least close to the right way
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
the point you argued with me was ... ""Also,Tab -Targeting is still used more in MMORPGs by a very large margin .. Its not even close ""
I still stand by that and have proven that point ...
I shudder to stick my nose in here, but 52 MMOs out of 600+ is still less than the 10% already mentioned and forgotten.
As for "going back to tab targeting", how many of your list are less than 3 years old? Where is this "retro tab targeting trend" you spoke of?
Now, there is also a mention of "MMORPGs", which could muck up the whole thing, depending on one's definition of "MMORPG." Tab targeting does play into the "RPG" portion, in my opinion, but that's definitely not a given to any other player's opinion.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
"Action combat" is a term used for anything other than trinity and tabbing. So what it means differs vastly from MMO to MMO. In some genres the term is more consistent like MOBAs, in MMOs it can mean anything.
I have never found a action system in a MMO that I was truly happy with, the best were just alright. We need to ask ourselves why do we need an action system and what do we expect to get out of it?
The convergence of MMO gameplay with other gaming styles, a one style to fit all approach, is bad news as we need diversity of play styles in gaming.
If a good action system emerged I would back that, but so far all we have had is zerg fests. So I am not tied to trinity, but its alternative has big shoes to fill.
How about when your act of blocking or dodging is tied to a dice roll. Meaning your actual physical skill of hitting a key on the keyboard has nothing to do with whether you get hit or not because the odds are calculated and then decided. So you might hit dodge and block with a shield but if the dice roll decides you missed you still get hit....what type category is that game in?
I'm no expert, but is there an MMO where "button activated dodge/block" is tied to a die roll? I know TES III Morrowind had this, but do any MMOs? I'm more curious than obtuse
I recall EQ giving feedback through the combat chatbox about successful/failed dodges, blocks, ripostes. No buttons used here, they just happened, which is how I prefer my combat
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
How about when your act of blocking or dodging is tied to a dice roll. Meaning your actual physical skill of hitting a key on the keyboard has nothing to do with whether you get hit or not because the odds are calculated and then decided. So you might hit dodge and block with a shield but if the dice roll decides you missed you still get hit....what type category is that game in?
I'm no expert, but is there an MMO where "button activated dodge/block" is tied to a die roll? I know TES III Morrowind had this, but do any MMOs? I'm more curious than obtuse
I recall EQ giving feedback through the combat chatbox about successful/failed dodges, blocks, ripostes. No buttons used here, they just happened, which is how I prefer my combat
The calculation is done by the game without you knowing about it and it may not be a dice but it may also be done using a formula based on actual skill with your added bonus from items to calculate a chance of it hitting or successfully blocking or dodging. These calculations are not obvious but games do employ them. There has to be a system because what you observe when you swing a weapon or cast a spell is not what the real result will be in the end. Many times lag and other aspects also interfere with the result.
When the game informs you that you missed ,you glanced, you hit, the game is doing the calculation and informing you and if it has no combat text then you just see yourself hitting the mob or missing. Some MMORPGs even give exact numbers for miss, glance, hit and so on. Those figures have to be calculated and don't actually have anything to do with what you observe while playing.
You also took my dice roll example literally. I was talking about Pen and Paper games while making a reference to MMORPGs but those games do use these behind the scenes and no actual dice rolls in front of your face during combat.
If you consider loot drops where certain random calculations are made and probabilities even reduced to prolong game play until players actually check and find out that the game developer has secretly increased the chance for failure. These things are not readily observable and sometimes players get into the code to talk about the percentages of skills connecting and loot dropping.
So whether you're playing an action orientated combat that is using a different method to calculate your hits and misses or a tab target system that is using dice rolls to calculate your hits and misses the combat must be satisfying. At the end of the day if I do not enjoy a game and it has unsatisfactory combat the way the game calculates the combat results will be irrelevant. Fun is first.
the point you argued with me was ... ""Also,Tab -Targeting is still used more in MMORPGs by a very large margin .. Its not even close ""
I still stand by that and have proven that point ...
I shudder to stick my nose in here, but 52 MMOs out of 600+ is still less than the 10% already mentioned and forgotten.
As for "going back to tab targeting", how many of your list are less than 3 years old? Where is this "retro tab targeting trend" you spoke of?
Now, there is also a mention of "MMORPGs", which could muck up the whole thing, depending on one's definition of "MMORPG." Tab targeting does play into the "RPG" portion, in my opinion, but that's definitely not a given to any other player's opinion.
The Discussion was for MMORPGs , we all know what they are and there are not 600 in that list .. but thats a different discussion , PUGB ,Fortnite , and Destiny for the sake of this discussion are FPS NOT MMORPG,also D3, POE and LOL are not MMORPGS ,And i stopped at that 52 , only outa of boredom .. there are many more ..
And the point i was making and still stand by ..
Is that more players are using a Tab Target system in MMORPGs than any other system in MMORPGS today ...
heck , Wow , Lineage , and Runescape alone , each may have more players than all the Action MMORPGS combined , not accounting for any of the others ..
There just arent that many action MMORPGs as there are Tab Target and Tab TArget has a 20+ year jump on action , now it may and trend to swing the other way over time .. But that remains to be seen
the point you argued with me was ... ""Also,Tab -Targeting is still used more in MMORPGs by a very large margin .. Its not even close ""
I still stand by that and have proven that point ...
I shudder to stick my nose in here, but 52 MMOs out of 600+ is still less than the 10% already mentioned and forgotten.
As for "going back to tab targeting", how many of your list are less than 3 years old? Where is this "retro tab targeting trend" you spoke of?
Now, there is also a mention of "MMORPGs", which could muck up the whole thing, depending on one's definition of "MMORPG." Tab targeting does play into the "RPG" portion, in my opinion, but that's definitely not a given to any other player's opinion.
Well said.
I realize that there is a lot of confusion among many regarding this subject which is why I was really trying to be patient and understanding while discussing the subject in this thread. I believe that many are under the misguided opinion that simply because one is able to tab target a mob, that this automatically makes the game tab target combat. Defining the difference between Action Combat and Tab Target Combat is a lot more complicated than ascribing a game as Tab Target Combat simply because one is able to tab from one mob to another and after pressing a key watching the trajectory of the attack strike the target. There a distinct difference between the two combat styles. Sometimes they may bleed into each other subtly, yet the difference remains if one has a true understanding of the foundational mechanics that drive each combat style.
In a nutshell though, without going into deep detail and specifics, the difference lies in that in one style (Action Combat) the player is actively mobile and manually engaged in blocking, dodging, free lance targeting while attacking and in combat. In other words, the player is mobile and active while in combat, hence the term "Action Combat."
In the other combat style (Tab Targeting), the player stands stationary after tabbing a mob and proceeds to attack by pressing offensive assault skills. Generally speaking, with this style, the game can either reward you with points that you can assign to the various categories such as block, dodge, parry, agility, etc. These categories can also be found in gear, and when each is combined, allow the game to arbitrarily (RNG based) determine whether you are executing these actions (blocking, dodging, parrying, etc.), and how well you are able to perform and/or executive these abilities.
There are other combat dynamics that are integral to each, and that factor into the differences of each stated mechanic, but for the sake of brevity that is the basic difference, and the one that can be most easily recognized distinguishing one combat style from the other.
Comments
The majority of players in MMORPGs today are using a TAb TArget system that DOEs NOT let you do any of those things ..
I happen to enjoy both systems and have max lvl in all of the Popular action games out there .. But i find more challenge in Anarchy Online than any of those games...
Both systems are fun and have there fun-factor , but action game systems feel overly simplified to me , mostly consisting of Spam fests of a limited (most effective ) skills
That would be classic tab target combat.
In other words, tabbing and locking on a target and doing nothing else but standing there and letting RNG decide your dodge, block, parry etc., according to your gear or assigned points in those combat related categories.
This made me think of action mmos and BDO is one great example. I actually think BDO has the BEST action combat I have ever played in any mmo. I also think it is a totally shit mmorpg aside from that for many reasons that I won't go into right now.
My focus of thought though was on the action combat which is basically a cursor with active aiming and some reactive defensives. This means, no matter now many abilities you can use, you aim, click a button and move. At it's most basic level, its much like playing an FPS like Day of Infamy but a little more lax on pure accuracy.
I came to understand that action combat in mmos can be summorized/distilled into the following statement:
- Action combat is: POINT AND CLICK.
There really is not more to it. Of course movement is involved and the timing of when you click things but that's it. It's isn't an evolution of mmo gaming. BDO, likely the most complex and twitchy action combat in any mmo, is nothing more than combo combat games consoles had for decades along with aiming your cursor like in an FPS game. I could also use ESO as an example. No matter what class I pick it's just clicking different abilities fast be it melee or ranged.
So why is it considered a high skill cap system? Well, because it's entirely up to the individual's coordination which varies wildly between people. But, IF you have good reaction timing you can master the combat easily just like any good FPS player can pop into any other FPS game and quickly master it. The skill curve is actually rather low because the system is mostly based upon the innate ability of the player.
Speaking for myself, someone who grew up playing competitive sports, continued into sports well into my 30's and put endless hours of practice into highly twitch style sports (like badminton ... seriously go watch pro badminton and see their reaction time), I discovered my fast twitch skills translated very, very well in to fast twitch games. So when I play a game like BDO I adapt to it well and after countless hours of playing action mmos discover one universal truth: THEY END UP BORING ME TO DEATH!
I point, I click, I move. I point, I click, I move. And clicking is never anything more than knowing some combos for various situations and spamming abilities as fast as one can possibly get them off. This is called muscle memory and thinking is something you actually want to limit.
So if I am good, why do I find it boring and unfulfilling in an mmorpg? Because it actually isn't very strategic once you think about it. Too much emphasis in put on player skill and strategic mechanics don't have to be build into the game itself. The more you limit physical requirements the more you emphasize mental requirements through choice.
We may see a very good example of this once Camelot Unchained launches where it combines slower mmorpg style combat with modern physics and FPS style choices. Older mmorpgs still provide a good example however because they play out more like a game of chess where each move you choose has painful consequences if chosen wrong. Standing in the wrong place, winding up a long charge ability could put you at risk of severe push back, vulnerable to a long CC and outside of group mates with class abilities you require for protection. It's like an action combat version of chess ... not an FPS. One becomes more the general of a battlefield and less the grunt.
That is what action combat lacks badly. They offer 2 entirely different styles of combat and game play. In the long run, as in playing an mmorpg for years, I GREATLY prefer a more tactical thinking game. A game where (if the proper interface could be made) Stephen Hawking could master through his mind rather than using physical skills which obviously he couldn't. Perhaps the best would be to combine these styles somewhat to find a balance.
In general however, the more an mmo tries to be pure action combat, the faster I lose interest because the learning curve is shallow relying upon my own physical skill set over the tool that ultimately will always have the steepest learning curve to master ... the brain.
You stay sassy!
Yes, and how can we believe anything credible related to action combat vs tab target from the same poster who assertively argued vehemently that ESO is also a tab target combat game. Apparently, according to the above said poster, every game is a tab target combat game.
Don't feel too bad. Given the comments of several others in this thread, you ain't alone.
In ESO if i Mouse over you or Tab Target you , once you are targeted .. You can run into a building .. Behind a tree .. jump off a fucking cliff, hide behind your mothers skirt ....
And that arrow will still hit you .. Hence ... why i said it has a Tab Target feel to it ..
Interesting how you left out that i said .. Overall ESO feels like an Action game but the ranged combat falls short for me ..
You left that out intentionally i am certain .. good try ........ 2/10
Now show me where i....."assertively argued vehemently"
you cant ....................... maybe a nap is in order
One example of an Action Combat game is BDO, the most obvious example of a tab target game is WoW, there is however a lot of games that fall somewhere in between these two types of games, but if you had to say which one ESO is closer to it would be WoW, not BDO.
Now now, you now the thread is there to be copy pasted that will reveal the truth right?
Again, action combat is defined by what you, as the player does before you launch your skill attack, not what the skill attack does after you launch it. Your stance is wholly contradictory of what Sovrath said that I agreed with. Since what he said and I agreed with has everything to do with mobility during combat and nothing to do with the trajectory of, say, an arrow, after you have launched your attack.
Because ESO is not tab target.
Again, tab target combat is not defined simply because you are able to tab target from one target to another. Tab target combat is defined by targeting and locking on a mob, and standing there while initiating combat, and allowing RNG to determine whether you block, parry, dodge etc.
If you are actively and manually blocking, dodging, moving while targeting and striking while in combat, this is ACTION COMBAT. There really is no in between. Just because you are able to tab from one mob to another while in combat does not, in an of itself, make it tab target.
Some games give you the option of which combat you want to utilize at the beginning of the game. As a matter of fact, ESO, Revelation Online and others even give you the option at the beginning of the game. And they clearly state whether you want action combat or tab targeting style of combat. There is a distinct difference between the two styles of combat.
There is no doubt that we have different ideas, or interpretations, of what constitutes Action Combat. Yet, the very words, "Action Combat," mean exactly how it reads. If you are in action while in combat, then its action combat. Its really just that simple. Anything else is just reading into it.
Again, action combat is the action that a player is taking while in combat, not what the trajectory of the skill initiated takes after the attack has been initiated. It also has nothing to do with the fact that prior to launching your attack, you are able to tab from one target to another.
Tab target combat is tabbing and locking unto a target, and simply keying a skill and allowing RNG to determine combat actions depending on gear or point assignations to specific combat skills such as dodge, parry, block, etc.
this is Exactly what ESO range combat does .................aint that rich
When you lock a target and arrows and spells turn cornerr, or the arrow or spell chases the Target in a dog-leg, that is indicative and classic Tab Target function ..(And doesn not feel very actiony)
And yes you dont have to Tab for this to work just targeting will cause the arrow to follow the target around corners .. This is a Tab target function..(and does not feel very Actiony)
When i can fire an arrow and hit an enemy that runs into a building , that is indicative and classic Tab Target function ..(and again this does not feel action )
There melee has a much better Action combat feel to it , but the Archery ands some of the spellcasting does not IMO and in my experience (which is currently 300CP)
Now does the overall feel of ESO combat feel action , i would say yes , but the range stuff falls flat IMO
Now i enjoy ESO and play it since launch but i also accept its flaws , seems some here are really offended if the flaws in there internet girlfriend are pointed out ..
Its ok if she has flaws , they all do , just love her for what she is
I am also hopefull that update 17 will improve the combat , seems the devs at least think there is alot of room for improvement to there system
That all being said , I like ESO its a really good game in many ways , but there is room for improvement in alot of areas ..
Dare accepted.
"assertively argued vehemently"
Anyone that reads that would surmise that ...
Scorch Likes ESO
The Overall feel of ESo is actiony
The Ranged does not share that same feel to him
he enjoys ESO
And hopes future updates will adrress these issues ...
you need a nap
and im changing your score to 1/10 ..
Barely worth the effort
"Im not confusing anything , seems some here want to make some of the combat in ESO something it is not ..
When you lock a target and arrows and spells turn cornerr, or the arrow or spell chases the Target in a dog-leg, that is indicative and classic Tab Target function ..(And doesn not feel very actiony).
And yes you dont have to Tab for this to work just targeting will cause the arrow to follow the target around corners .. This is a Tab target function..(and does not feel very Actiony)
When i can fire an arrow and hit an enemy that runs into a building , that is indicative and classic Tab Target function ..(and again this does not feel action )"
It's getting pretty bad when one has to copy paste a copy paste from a post quoted directly in the quoted post. I bolded some of it this time. Maybe that will sink in. Highly doubtful though. One thing I can say for you, you are resilient.
Thats what arrows do in ESO its not opinion ...
im out tho you have fun ..
uh huh. It has been fun.
You take care now.
What tab targeting does for me is separate me from my character. Action combat is all me. No matter how great my character is with a sword, *I* will still be looking at the ground, up in the air, to the left or right of my target. This breaks immersion for me as my "Master Swordsman" has trouble hitting the broad side of a barn
Now, tab targeting is by no means perfect (spells that follow targets around corners for one), but I prefer it for the separation between me and my character that it gives
PS: Also, tab targeting is not an "auto hit", as one must be facing at least close to the right way
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
As for "going back to tab targeting", how many of your list are less than 3 years old? Where is this "retro tab targeting trend" you spoke of?
Now, there is also a mention of "MMORPGs", which could muck up the whole thing, depending on one's definition of "MMORPG." Tab targeting does play into the "RPG" portion, in my opinion, but that's definitely not a given to any other player's opinion.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
I have never found a action system in a MMO that I was truly happy with, the best were just alright. We need to ask ourselves why do we need an action system and what do we expect to get out of it?
The convergence of MMO gameplay with other gaming styles, a one style to fit all approach, is bad news as we need diversity of play styles in gaming.
If a good action system emerged I would back that, but so far all we have had is zerg fests. So I am not tied to trinity, but its alternative has big shoes to fill.
I recall EQ giving feedback through the combat chatbox about successful/failed dodges, blocks, ripostes. No buttons used here, they just happened, which is how I prefer my combat
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
When the game informs you that you missed ,you glanced, you hit, the game is doing the calculation and informing you and if it has no combat text then you just see yourself hitting the mob or missing. Some MMORPGs even give exact numbers for miss, glance, hit and so on. Those figures have to be calculated and don't actually have anything to do with what you observe while playing.
You also took my dice roll example literally. I was talking about Pen and Paper games while making a reference to MMORPGs but those games do use these behind the scenes and no actual dice rolls in front of your face during combat.
If you consider loot drops where certain random calculations are made and probabilities even reduced to prolong game play until players actually check and find out that the game developer has secretly increased the chance for failure. These things are not readily observable and sometimes players get into the code to talk about the percentages of skills connecting and loot dropping.
So whether you're playing an action orientated combat that is using a different method to calculate your hits and misses or a tab target system that is using dice rolls to calculate your hits and misses the combat must be satisfying. At the end of the day if I do not enjoy a game and it has unsatisfactory combat the way the game calculates the combat results will be irrelevant. Fun is first.
And the point i was making and still stand by ..
Is that more players are using a Tab Target system in MMORPGs than any other system in MMORPGS today ...
heck , Wow , Lineage , and Runescape alone , each may have more players than all the Action MMORPGS combined , not accounting for any of the others ..
There just arent that many action MMORPGs as there are Tab Target and Tab TArget has a 20+ year jump on action , now it may and trend to swing the other way over time .. But that remains to be seen
Well said.
I realize that there is a lot of confusion among many regarding this subject which is why I was really trying to be patient and understanding while discussing the subject in this thread. I believe that many are under the misguided opinion that simply because one is able to tab target a mob, that this automatically makes the game tab target combat. Defining the difference between Action Combat and Tab Target Combat is a lot more complicated than ascribing a game as Tab Target Combat simply because one is able to tab from one mob to another and after pressing a key watching the trajectory of the attack strike the target. There a distinct difference between the two combat styles. Sometimes they may bleed into each other subtly, yet the difference remains if one has a true understanding of the foundational mechanics that drive each combat style.
In a nutshell though, without going into deep detail and specifics, the difference lies in that in one style (Action Combat) the player is actively mobile and manually engaged in blocking, dodging, free lance targeting while attacking and in combat. In other words, the player is mobile and active while in combat, hence the term "Action Combat."
In the other combat style (Tab Targeting), the player stands stationary after tabbing a mob and proceeds to attack by pressing offensive assault skills. Generally speaking, with this style, the game can either reward you with points that you can assign to the various categories such as block, dodge, parry, agility, etc. These categories can also be found in gear, and when each is combined, allow the game to arbitrarily (RNG based) determine whether you are executing these actions (blocking, dodging, parrying, etc.), and how well you are able to perform and/or executive these abilities.
There are other combat dynamics that are integral to each, and that factor into the differences of each stated mechanic, but for the sake of brevity that is the basic difference, and the one that can be most easily recognized distinguishing one combat style from the other.