My biggest question about this whole thing is this: If the progression (read: vanilla) version of this game is so much better than what ultimately is the point if they plan to dump your character into live RIFT once it's all over? Just a bit of nostalgia for a time?
Seems like you end up back in the version of the game you don't want to play when it's done and you slowly progress towards that as well....seems odd to want to experience the game getting worse over time.
I think and some players have reservedly agreed that its more about avoiding the F2P hoi polloi. After the server closes you will be back with them, but I suppose their smell is not so bad at top level?
I'm currently trying to figure out if a Warlock primary/Necro secondary is viable. Can't get the 31+ pet with only 15 points in Necro... So not sure if it will be viable after 30.
Can you only have 15 points in necro in Prime if you want to max out Warlock?
That was my impression merely from reading through stuff on the forums. I should've just counted it up lol, but I haven't really thought to do so lmao.
I hope so, I love how Warlock plays, specifically in PvP, but wanna focus on that soul for primary if possible.
My biggest question about this whole thing is this: If the progression (read: vanilla) version of this game is so much better than what ultimately is the point if they plan to dump your character into live RIFT once it's all over? Just a bit of nostalgia for a time?
Seems like you end up back in the version of the game you don't want to play when it's done and you slowly progress towards that as well....seems odd to want to experience the game getting worse over time.
I think and some players have reservedly agreed that its more about avoiding the F2P hoi polloi. After the server closes you will be back with them, but I suppose their smell is not so bad at top level?
They backed off on committing to sunset the server. If they announce a sunset date, I'll likely move on. I won't be moving back to a F2P server.
My biggest question about this whole thing is this: If the progression (read: vanilla) version of this game is so much better than what ultimately is the point if they plan to dump your character into live RIFT once it's all over? Just a bit of nostalgia for a time?
Seems like you end up back in the version of the game you don't want to play when it's done and you slowly progress towards that as well....seems odd to want to experience the game getting worse over time.
I think and some players have reservedly agreed that its more about avoiding the F2P hoi polloi. After the server closes you will be back with them, but I suppose their smell is not so bad at top level?
They backed off on committing to sunset the server. If they announce a sunset date, I'll likely move on. I won't be moving back to a F2P server.
The FAQ is out of date then? I read that a short time after the progression ends (which will run for about one year according to FAQ) they will close it.
My biggest question about this whole thing is this: If the progression (read: vanilla) version of this game is so much better than what ultimately is the point if they plan to dump your character into live RIFT once it's all over? Just a bit of nostalgia for a time?
Seems like you end up back in the version of the game you don't want to play when it's done and you slowly progress towards that as well....seems odd to want to experience the game getting worse over time.
I think and some players have reservedly agreed that its more about avoiding the F2P hoi polloi. After the server closes you will be back with them, but I suppose their smell is not so bad at top level?
They backed off on committing to sunset the server. If they announce a sunset date, I'll likely move on. I won't be moving back to a F2P server.
The FAQ is out of date then? I read that a short time after the progression ends (which will run for about one year according to FAQ) they will close it.
"I won't be moving back to a F2P server."
I think this could well become the new vogue in MMOs, but think about the consequences. If players who spend money leave F2P servers, then F2P will not be seen as much of a money maker as it was before. Could we even be on the long road back to subscription as king?
My biggest question about this whole thing is this: If the progression (read: vanilla) version of this game is so much better than what ultimately is the point if they plan to dump your character into live RIFT once it's all over? Just a bit of nostalgia for a time?
Seems like you end up back in the version of the game you don't want to play when it's done and you slowly progress towards that as well....seems odd to want to experience the game getting worse over time.
I think and some players have reservedly agreed that its more about avoiding the F2P hoi polloi. After the server closes you will be back with them, but I suppose their smell is not so bad at top level?
They backed off on committing to sunset the server. If they announce a sunset date, I'll likely move on. I won't be moving back to a F2P server.
The FAQ is out of date then? I read that a short time after the progression ends (which will run for about one year according to FAQ) they will close it.
"I won't be moving back to a F2P server."
I think this could well become the new vogue in MMOs, but think about the consequences. If players who spend money leave F2P servers, then F2P will not be seen as much of a money maker as it was before. Could we even be on the long road back to subscription as king?
I think this is a good opportunity to prove that there is a market for P2P aside from the "kings" of the genre. I don't think this one server is significant yet, but I think if we start to see more companies doing this then we might see a potential swing.
My biggest question about this whole thing is this: If the progression (read: vanilla) version of this game is so much better than what ultimately is the point if they plan to dump your character into live RIFT once it's all over? Just a bit of nostalgia for a time?
Seems like you end up back in the version of the game you don't want to play when it's done and you slowly progress towards that as well....seems odd to want to experience the game getting worse over time.
I think and some players have reservedly agreed that its more about avoiding the F2P hoi polloi. After the server closes you will be back with them, but I suppose their smell is not so bad at top level?
They backed off on committing to sunset the server. If they announce a sunset date, I'll likely move on. I won't be moving back to a F2P server.
The FAQ is out of date then? I read that a short time after the progression ends (which will run for about one year according to FAQ) they will close it.
"I won't be moving back to a F2P server."
I think this could well become the new vogue in MMOs, but think about the consequences. If players who spend money leave F2P servers, then F2P will not be seen as much of a money maker as it was before. Could we even be on the long road back to subscription as king?
The flaws in relying on a mandatory subscription still exist too. It's not like every game can just wind the clock back. WoW and FF14 can afford to be sub-locked. Most other games cannot.
A problem I had and still have with mandatory subs - studios and pubs sponge off the profit and it solely becomes a membership tax. That sucks and people get sick of it because they're still charged a box fee every 18 months for an xpac anyway.
Completely F2P doesn't work either because it engenders an entitlement mentality and a lopsided financial revenue stream. I'm talking about fewer players paying more so a lot of people can play essentially free. Since people don't like "P2W" in games this puts the financial burden of the game on explorer collector types. People expect to play AAA production quality games for absolutely no money and don't want to pay for any game.
So now we have a majority demographic that wants to pay nothing with a publishing industry that wants to charge more for even greater production graphics.
That has stopped working for me personally. That may work for everyone else and I'm just screwed, but I hope I'm not alone here. I'm willing to pay for my games, but I don't want to be continually milked by any one of them and I don't care if that means cash shop or sub. That means I want to see value for a sub, or an xpac fee, or a cash shop purchase. I also want to see game costs more equitably shared amongst gamers. That will hopefully normalize the influence both whales and total froobs have on development.
After debating this with you heavily, I think we found a common ground here.
I agree- subs ala vanilla DAoC aren't ideal anymore. At least, not without consistent content drops that are paid through the sub. But to me, it's the lesser of the two evils.
Of course, from there, we have to address the consumer base's requirements for visual fidelity and development cost. I'm starting to believe we've gotten way ahead of ourselves in terms of graphical expectations and it's creating the environment that's pushing more and more companies to aggressively monetize to pay for it. I can see this kind of vicious cycle in which F2P and the cost to produce the games volley back and forth, becoming more and more egregious in turn until it becomes a huge issue for the entire industry. In some ways, you could make the case that it already is.
Of course, from there, we have to address the consumer base's requirements for visual fidelity and development cost. I'm starting to believe we've gotten way ahead of ourselves in terms of graphical expectations and it's creating the environment that's pushing more and more companies to aggressively monetize to pay for it.
It's usually the artists working on the project that push that agenda, not the consumers. Artists are constantly tweaking their work and if left to their own design, they'd never finish anything because it can be forever reworked. I've been guilty of this on many an occasion. That's why they have someone in charge to reign you in to keep you on schedule.
Companies just come up with clever ways to get you to pay more than you would normally have if you just bought the game outright. Subscriptions were a landfall for them, but people don't play consistently enough to warrant a subscription. So they turn to other methods to make up for it.
In most cases, games get shut down not due to not turning a profit, but rather not turning enough of a profit to warrant their attention. They get the most money at release and during the honeymoon period. That's why expansions exist... it's a pseudo new release in which profits spike. If adding more pixels qualifies as an expansion, they'll go with it.
Remember, whether you are working on a low polygon model or a high polygon model, you're still clocking your 8 hour work day. You're using the same hardware and software. You don't get paid for each pixel. You cost the same irregardless of the level of detail you are pursuing. Now if they can get more money out of the consumer for said extra pixels... it just means more profit for them.
My biggest question about this whole thing is this: If the progression (read: vanilla) version of this game is so much better than what ultimately is the point if they plan to dump your character into live RIFT once it's all over? Just a bit of nostalgia for a time?
Seems like you end up back in the version of the game you don't want to play when it's done and you slowly progress towards that as well....seems odd to want to experience the game getting worse over time.
I think and some players have reservedly agreed that its more about avoiding the F2P hoi polloi. After the server closes you will be back with them, but I suppose their smell is not so bad at top level?
They backed off on committing to sunset the server. If they announce a sunset date, I'll likely move on. I won't be moving back to a F2P server.
The FAQ is out of date then? I read that a short time after the progression ends (which will run for about one year according to FAQ) they will close it.
"I won't be moving back to a F2P server."
I think this could well become the new vogue in MMOs, but think about the consequences. If players who spend money leave F2P servers, then F2P will not be seen as much of a money maker as it was before. Could we even be on the long road back to subscription as king?
The flaws in relying on a mandatory subscription still exist too. It's not like every game can just wind the clock back. WoW and FF14 can afford to be sub-locked. Most other games cannot.
A problem I had and still have with mandatory subs - studios and pubs sponge off the profit and it solely becomes a membership tax. That sucks and people get sick of it because they're still charged a box fee every 18 months for an xpac anyway.
Completely F2P doesn't work either because it engenders an entitlement mentality and a lopsided financial revenue stream. I'm talking about fewer players paying more so a lot of people can play essentially free. Since people don't like "P2W" in games this puts the financial burden of the game on explorer collector types. People expect to play AAA production quality games for absolutely no money and don't want to pay for any game.
So now we have a majority demographic that wants to pay nothing with a publishing industry that wants to charge more for even greater production graphics.
That has stopped working for me personally. That may work for everyone else and I'm just screwed, but I hope I'm not alone here. I'm willing to pay for my games, but I don't want to be continually milked by any one of them and I don't care if that means cash shop or sub. That means I want to see value for a sub, or an xpac fee, or a cash shop purchase. I also want to see game costs more equitably shared amongst gamers. That will hopefully normalize the influence both whales and total froobs have on development.
If you have a choice between a subscription and F2P server and all the people who subscribe end up on the subscription server that's not going to make the F2P server look good for revenue. Its not mandatory, you can go F2P if you want.
We know how much MMOs follow the whales, if the whales go to the subscription server would the F2P one survive?
I'm currently trying to figure out if a Warlock primary/Necro secondary is viable. Can't get the 31+ pet with only 15 points in Necro... So not sure if it will be viable after 30.
Can you only have 15 points in necro in Prime if you want to max out Warlock?
Yes, but because of the point split ratio that's always been. One soul can have Level + 1 points. That leaves 15 points left over to split amongst the other two.
Most rogue builds right now have at least 0 point ranger for the call of the razorbeast. That skill gives non ranger skills +20% damage and healing to non-ranger skills. It's a big reason why I made my alt a cleric instead of a ranger. I really hate that gimmick.
How does that work? Do I need to summon the razorbeast or does the beast have a skill?
If you're not wearing chain and metal and can only wear cloth a bikini top works because not wearing anything is not going to give less covering than the cloth. A metal bikini though makes no sense.
I know it has nothing to do with sense but just for fanciful argument sake is all.
If you're not wearing chain and metal and can only wear cloth a bikini top works because not wearing anything is not going to give less covering than the cloth. A metal bikini though makes no sense.
I know it has nothing to do with sense but just for fanciful argument sake is all.
Yeh, I also see metal bikinis in the wardrobe, it is not like I hide chest. It is a robe.
Btw I can make 14 slot bags, so if someone needs it just give me mats.
There has been this ongoing discussion, debate, and feeback over xp rewards, progression, and pacing.
Some players felt the xp rates for Rifts, quests, and other activities were too low. Feeback was that people felt stuck and the pace was sloggy and they were running out of quests. So XP gains from many sources were increased (not retroactively) to provide a better pace and smoother curve.
The complaints continue and grow louder that people are running out of quests and they're stuck in the high twenties and low thirties. The expectation is that questing and the occasional side activity will get them to cap with no hassle.
It struck me that these people either don't know or have forgotten how to play MMOs when quests were just a cushy side activity for extra xp to reduce the grind. Now it's come full circle that there is no game left to figuring out progression in MMOs. It's all smooth pipeline to cap and then instance / arena grinding for epeen. Not only that, but based on the discussion in the Project Gorgon forums (and some comments from the official Rift forums) people don't want to pay for their MMOs either.
This is telling because this server is an experiment for future custom sub-only rulesets. We have WoW Classic on the horizon along with Pantheon, CU, Project Gorgon and other classic styled reboots. This experience and the launch of PG into early access have driven home the point that classic MMORPG design might actually be dead. What chances do these games have in a demographic market that is interested in them but still wants all the modern rush-to-cap endgame epeen grind and by the way, they don't want to pay for it.
These games don't stand a chance because people who they aren't targeted for are going to try and aggressively tear them down until they're gone or change to fit a F2P model.
Can't wait to see the same xp/low quest complaints when Classic starts.
There has been this ongoing discussion, debate, and feeback over xp rewards, progression, and pacing.
Some players felt the xp rates for Rifts, quests, and other activities were too low. Feeback was that people felt stuck and the pace was sloggy and they were running out of quests. So XP gains from many sources were increased (not retroactively) to provide a better pace and smoother curve.
The complaints continue and grow louder that people are running out of quests and they're stuck in the high twenties and low thirties. The expectation is that questing and the occasional side activity will get them to cap with no hassle.
It struck me that these people either don't know or have forgotten how to play MMOs when quests were just a cushy side activity for extra xp to reduce the grind. Now it's come full circle that there is no game left to figuring out progression in MMOs. It's all smooth pipeline to cap and then instance / arena grinding for epeen. Not only that, but based on the discussion in the Project Gorgon forums (and some comments from the official Rift forums) people don't want to pay for their MMOs either.
This is telling because this server is an experiment for future custom sub-only rulesets. We have WoW Classic on the horizon along with Pantheon, CU, Project Gorgon and other classic styled reboots. This experience and the launch of PG into early access have driven home the point that classic MMORPG design might actually be dead. What chances do these games have in a demographic market that is interested in them but still wants all the modern rush-to-cap endgame epeen grind and by the way, they don't want to pay for it.
These games don't stand a chance because people who they aren't targeted for are going to try and aggressively tear them down until they're gone or change to fit a F2P model.
I saw some of that chat as well. It's strange, as I am level 23 and still able to get half a level in under an hour merely through rifts and invasions. If Freemarch gets invaded, it's a huge boost of XP if you ride the raid train through it even if you're in your 20s.
Quest XP is pretty small, but I haven't gotten the impression that Trion wants you to grind from quest hub to quest hub. I usually pick up carnage quests or what have you along the way and do them if I'm in the area. It's worked fairly well so far, and I feel like I'm moving at an adequate pace.
So im having a lot of fun. The game world is so full of people I feel like it's a proper mmo again. I even got the $30 pack for my wife to try the game out for the first time.
She had a question for me I could not really answer. I was hoping someone here could. Now that she has a sub and prime access. Is there anything content wise she has to purchase if she wants to try the regular live server? I know you have to purchase the extra class and souls. I'm talking about Storm legion and expansions? Thanks in Advance.
So im having a lot of fun. The game world is so full of people I feel like it's a proper mmo again. I even got the $30 pack for my wife to try the game out for the first time.
She had a question for me I could not really answer. I was hoping someone here could. Now that she has a sub and prime access. Is there anything content wise she has to purchase if she wants to try the regular live server? I know you have to purchase the extra class and souls. I'm talking about Storm legion and expansions? Thanks in Advance.
Dunno the answer to that one Mel, sorry.
Just got my 90% speed favor mount. Mechanical horse riding!
So im having a lot of fun. The game world is so full of people I feel like it's a proper mmo again. I even got the $30 pack for my wife to try the game out for the first time.
She had a question for me I could not really answer. I was hoping someone here could. Now that she has a sub and prime access. Is there anything content wise she has to purchase if she wants to try the regular live server? I know you have to purchase the extra class and souls. I'm talking about Storm legion and expansions? Thanks in Advance.
Live server content are not locked maybe some bag slots and bank slots but with bigger bags and little cleaning is not a big need. Only problem on live is the low level player base mostly all the player base are max level.
You would not get its value right now on Prime , i would bank it and wait till you can make a nice bit of plat off it ... Unless you like Mount Skins then keep it , but i would think that it would not be a question if you were that into skins ....
If you're not wearing chain and metal and can only wear cloth a bikini top works because not wearing anything is not going to give less covering than the cloth. A metal bikini though makes no sense.
I know it has nothing to do with sense but just for fanciful argument sake is all.
Chain bikinis are a hallowed form of ladies apparel in RPG's, after all what are our fair damsels going to wear when they need some R&R on the beach? The ever practical chain bikini.
Comments
I think and some players have reservedly agreed that its more about avoiding the F2P hoi polloi.
After the server closes you will be back with them, but I suppose their smell is not so bad at top level?
I hope so, I love how Warlock plays, specifically in PvP, but wanna focus on that soul for primary if possible.
The FAQ is out of date then? I read that a short time after the progression ends (which will run for about one year according to FAQ) they will close it.
I think this could well become the new vogue in MMOs, but think about the consequences. If players who spend money leave F2P servers, then F2P will not be seen as much of a money maker as it was before. Could we even be on the long road back to subscription as king?
I think this is a good opportunity to prove that there is a market for P2P aside from the "kings" of the genre. I don't think this one server is significant yet, but I think if we start to see more companies doing this then we might see a potential swing.
I agree- subs ala vanilla DAoC aren't ideal anymore. At least, not without consistent content drops that are paid through the sub. But to me, it's the lesser of the two evils.
Of course, from there, we have to address the consumer base's requirements for visual fidelity and development cost. I'm starting to believe we've gotten way ahead of ourselves in terms of graphical expectations and it's creating the environment that's pushing more and more companies to aggressively monetize to pay for it. I can see this kind of vicious cycle in which F2P and the cost to produce the games volley back and forth, becoming more and more egregious in turn until it becomes a huge issue for the entire industry. In some ways, you could make the case that it already is.
Companies just come up with clever ways to get you to pay more than you would normally have if you just bought the game outright. Subscriptions were a landfall for them, but people don't play consistently enough to warrant a subscription. So they turn to other methods to make up for it.
In most cases, games get shut down not due to not turning a profit, but rather not turning enough of a profit to warrant their attention. They get the most money at release and during the honeymoon period. That's why expansions exist... it's a pseudo new release in which profits spike. If adding more pixels qualifies as an expansion, they'll go with it.
Remember, whether you are working on a low polygon model or a high polygon model, you're still clocking your 8 hour work day. You're using the same hardware and software. You don't get paid for each pixel. You cost the same irregardless of the level of detail you are pursuing. Now if they can get more money out of the consumer for said extra pixels... it just means more profit for them.
If you have a choice between a subscription and F2P server and all the people who subscribe end up on the subscription server that's not going to make the F2P server look good for revenue. Its not mandatory, you can go F2P if you want.
We know how much MMOs follow the whales, if the whales go to the subscription server would the F2P one survive?
Must say I like rogue healing with a babaric look
I know it has nothing to do with sense but just for fanciful argument sake is all.
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
Btw I can make 14 slot bags, so if someone needs it just give me mats.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
Silk cloth drops from level 36+ and on ah it is a bit overpriced imo.
Quest XP is pretty small, but I haven't gotten the impression that Trion wants you to grind from quest hub to quest hub. I usually pick up carnage quests or what have you along the way and do them if I'm in the area. It's worked fairly well so far, and I feel like I'm moving at an adequate pace.
거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
She had a question for me I could not really answer. I was hoping someone here could. Now that she has a sub and prime access. Is there anything content wise she has to purchase if she wants to try the regular live server? I know you have to purchase the extra class and souls. I'm talking about Storm legion and expansions? Thanks in Advance.
Just got my 90% speed favor mount. Mechanical horse riding!
Sell or keep?
Chain bikinis are a hallowed form of ladies apparel in RPG's, after all what are our fair damsels going to wear when they need some R&R on the beach? The ever practical chain bikini.