honestly could have just ended it right there, lol. I think this is the most valid point. Where does the roleplay end and the gameplay begin?
It's a mix of your character's skill and your own skill as a player
I might be a master Smith and Forge of Fire champion, but when my character starts out he/she will be on a low level and won't be able to craft Plate Mail using all the amazing techniques I know IRL, he/she'll be restricted to the "recipes" and "knowledge" he/she has as a Smit
From my understanding after reading the Dev Journal, you will learn techniques and open 'recipe books' in order to do/craft certain things. This is where your "character's skill" comes into play
Or take an example of a cook. In real life I might know how to make some amazing deserts. But if my character is a novice they wouldn't have the "recipes" or knowledge in order to combine certain ingredients to make that delicious pineapple upside down cake that happens to be my specialty IRL
The goal of SBS seems to be making crafting more of an interaction, and require some choice and reactions on the part of the player to keep from failing. Instead of how UO for example does just a skill check and % for fail/success on crafting equipment
I guess we'll have to wait for TV series focusing on ancient and medieval tailoring techniques or jewelry making before we know what SBS plans. There's already several food/cooking channels. I still want to see how they will plan to abstract heat-sensitivity with a mouse and keyboard. That pot it too hot! Drop it now!! ('Want to see' doesn't mean I won't mock it).
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
The issue is best exemplified by the reverse of your example.
My character is the cook also known as Iron Chef Slapshot. He has been a culinary expert for decades. I the player am not. Why should Iron Chef Slapshot’s success at making that delicious pineapple upside down cake in any way depend on Slapshot the players ability to measure ingredients and use audio and visual queues to properly combine and bake it? I’m not an Iron Chef IRL so why hinge the Iron Chefs cooking to my cooking skill?
The reason to have the success or failure hinge on your own ability to play the game is what will add depth and, in my opinion, enjoyment to crafting. I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is probably not for everyone, and that's ok, because not every game is for everyone. I dislike Sci-Fi games, hence I'm not much into Star Citizen, it doesn't mean I think their game will be crap or not fun, it's just not going to be something I'm into, and I'm ok with that as well as I'm sure their Dev team is ok with that too because they certainly aren't hurting for funds due to my dis-interest
Also, how exactly did Iron Chef Slapshot become the Expert for Decades that he is if you are so poor at using the crafting system in the first place?
The issue is best exemplified by the reverse of your example.
My character is the cook also known as Iron Chef Slapshot. He has been a culinary expert for decades. I the player am not. Why should Iron Chef Slapshot’s success at making that delicious pineapple upside down cake in any way depend on Slapshot the players ability to measure ingredients and use audio and visual queues to properly combine and bake it? I’m not an Iron Chef IRL so why hinge the Iron Chefs cooking to my cooking skill?
Ummmm... because that's the point of the way crafting is supposed to work?
Also, how exactly did Iron Chef Slapshot become the Expert for Decades that he is if you are so poor at using the crafting system in the first place?
So your skill as a cook IRL can not help your character but your lack of skill can hurt your character. And you don’t see the disconnect? At least be consistent.
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Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The issue is best exemplified by the reverse of your example.
My character is the cook also known as Iron Chef Slapshot. He has been a culinary expert for decades. I the player am not. Why should Iron Chef Slapshot’s success at making that delicious pineapple upside down cake in any way depend on Slapshot the players ability to measure ingredients and use audio and visual queues to properly combine and bake it? I’m not an Iron Chef IRL so why hinge the Iron Chefs cooking to my cooking skill?
Ummmm... because that's the point of the way crafting is supposed to work?
Also, how exactly did Iron Chef Slapshot become the Expert for Decades that he is if you are so poor at using the crafting system in the first place?
Sounds like Iron Chef Slapshot may have bought a ton of soul pack loot boxes in the cash shop, until he found one with several lifetimes worth of cooking experience.
The issue is best exemplified by the reverse of your example.
My character is the cook also known as Iron Chef Slapshot. He has been a culinary expert for decades. I the player am not. Why should Iron Chef Slapshot’s success at making that delicious pineapple upside down cake in any way depend on Slapshot the players ability to measure ingredients and use audio and visual queues to properly combine and bake it? I’m not an Iron Chef IRL so why hinge the Iron Chefs cooking to my cooking skill?
Ummmm... because that's the point of the way crafting is supposed to work?
Also, how exactly did Iron Chef Slapshot become the Expert for Decades that he is if you are so poor at using the crafting system in the first place?
So your skill as a cook IRL can not help your character but your lack of skill can hurt your character. And you don’t see the disconnect? At least be consistent.
The game is a combination of Character Skill and Player Skill. From my understanding on how the game mechanics are supposed to work:
You can't produce items that require a very high Character Skill with a novice character regardless of your own Player Skill
Your Player Skill will influence how well you succeed or fail when crafting items that your Character has the skill to create
The issue is best exemplified by the reverse of your example.
My character is the cook also known as Iron Chef Slapshot. He has been a culinary expert for decades. I the player am not. Why should Iron Chef Slapshot’s success at making that delicious pineapple upside down cake in any way depend on Slapshot the players ability to measure ingredients and use audio and visual queues to properly combine and bake it? I’m not an Iron Chef IRL so why hinge the Iron Chefs cooking to my cooking skill?
Ummmm... because that's the point of the way crafting is supposed to work?
Also, how exactly did Iron Chef Slapshot become the Expert for Decades that he is if you are so poor at using the crafting system in the first place?
So your skill as a cook IRL can not help your character but your lack of skill can hurt your character. And you don’t see the disconnect? At least be consistent.
The game is a combination of Character Skill and Player Skill. From my understanding on how the game mechanics are supposed to work:
You can't produce items that require a very high Character Skill with a novice character regardless of your own Player Skill
Your Player Skill will influence how well you succeed or fail when crafting items that your Character has the skill to create
Does that make sense?
To me? No.
Just read what you wrote: Your Player Skill will influence how well you succeed or fail when crafting items that your Character has the skill to create
My player skill determines my success at a process my character is skilled in...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
If you are REALLY bad at player skill checks for cooking, maybe a Chef is the wrong profession.
If you are REALLY bad at player skill checks for smithing, maybe don't choose a Smith
If you are REALLY bad at play... oh, well, I hope you get it
Edit to add:
Honestly @slapshot1188, why not just apply your logic to Combat
If my character has the Character Skill to kill something, why doesn't it just auto-kill whatever I'm fighting? Why do I have to use any strategy at all in killing it and avoiding death? Why should my player skill influence how well my character fights if my character is a Grandmaster Uber Legendary warrior? Why would it matter if I'm bad at fighting and have bad hand-eye coordination IRL? Shouldn't my character be able to just slaughter any and everything without me doing anything at all?
If you are REALLY bad at player skill checks for cooking, maybe a Chef is the wrong profession.
If you are REALLY bad at player skill checks for smithing, maybe don't choose a Smith
If you are REALLY bad at play... oh, well, I hope you get it
Edit to add:
Honestly @slapshot1188, why not just apply your logic to Combat
If my character has the Character Skill to kill something, why doesn't it just auto-kill whatever I'm fighting? Why do I have to use any strategy at all in killing it and avoiding death? Why should my player skill influence how well my character fights if my character is a Grandmaster Uber Legendary warrior, why does it matter that I'm really bad at fighting?
Is that not the same thing?
Yes let’s compare to combat. To be similar, my warrior would have to learn a certain skill. Now when we go to fight, I would have to personally position his footing, grip my sword a certain way, identify the style my opponent uses, swing my sword to an exact weak spot at a certain speed. And I guess to truly be comparable I’d have to also have known how to properly strap on my armor and hang my sword as well as know the best way to keep it sharpened with my stone and oil my armor.
Is that the detail level that combat is going to depend on player skill?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
What if someone backed the game intending to be a specific profession. And when the game goes live, that person simply sucks at the profession they were planning to do. Is a player punished for not being as deft with a mouse. Because let's stay in reality and realise we're only using a keyboard and mouse or maybe a controller. No one is actually standing over a forge.
And what about the other professions. blacksmithing is, in a sense the default profession because it has so many steps. But what about something basic like scribing. (could you imagine the contracts if they are written with a mouse) or animal breeding. How is player skill used in all the professions, this is something i hope they will explain.
And finally is this fun/do I have time. Others have mentioned this. This has to be enjoyable. If we don't even enjoy it, what exactly are we paying for? And while there will always be a segment that lives for this kind of gameplay, does it potentially alienate a larger group who simply don't have the time the new crafting would require.
The TLDR version seems like what maybe 5% of the player base would want to spend time doing. Especially with all the criticism with Shroud of the Avatar having no gear/weapon drops and having to craft everything. Seems very few want in depth crafting these days. EQ2 original crafting system the player could actually die if they didn't pay attention.
This is very true, but the idea is to limit the number of people that want to be trades, not have it so every "Adventure" out there needs to also max blacksmith to make their next dagger.
As such, a single player is not going to being out, harvesting ore, killing mobs, ruling cities, slaying dragons and also doing weaving, jewel craft, and leather work.
So, players will need to focus on what they plan to do.. wonder how he will handle basic materials gathering, like mining, and the like.
Should be a very cool game.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Yes let’s compare to combat. To be similar, my warrior would have to learn a certain skill. Now when we go to fight, I would have to personally position his footing, grip my sword a certain way, identify the style my opponent uses, swing my sword to an exact weak spot at a certain speed. And I guess to truly be comparable I’d have to also have known how to properly strap on my armor and hang my sword as well as know the best way to keep it sharpened with my stone and oil my armor.
Is that the detail level that combat is going to depend on player skill?
I think you missed the point
The point is that there are already Player Skill checks for combat in every MMO that has any combat at all
So why would it be so crazy to have Player Skill checks when crafting in a new MMO to make crafting more interesting and difficult?
If you are REALLY bad at player skill checks for cooking, maybe a Chef is the wrong profession.
If you are REALLY bad at player skill checks for smithing, maybe don't choose a Smith
If you are REALLY bad at play... oh, well, I hope you get it
Edit to add:
Honestly @slapshot1188, why not just apply your logic to Combat
If my character has the Character Skill to kill something, why doesn't it just auto-kill whatever I'm fighting? Why do I have to use any strategy at all in killing it and avoiding death? Why should my player skill influence how well my character fights if my character is a Grandmaster Uber Legendary warrior, why does it matter that I'm really bad at fighting?
Is that not the same thing?
Yes let’s compare to combat. To be similar, my warrior would have to learn a certain skill. Now when we go to fight, I would have to personally position his footing, grip my sword a certain way, identify the style my opponent uses, swing my sword to an exact weak spot at a certain speed. And I guess to truly be comparable I’d have to also have known how to properly strap on my armor and hang my sword as well as know the best way to keep it sharpened with my stone and oil my armor.
Is that the detail level that combat is going to depend on player skill?
I'm not going to get involved in the semantics, but your both looking at the same thing with the same thoughts and coming up with widely different opinion which I'm confused about.
To me it's this simple, to become good at a skill as a character involves you as a person learning how the mechanics of the crafting system works. From what I read it doesn't need real world knowledge, it needs knowledge of how the game will work to become proficient crafting.
So my question now is how is this different from a player in another game learning how to wall jump for instance?, or for me to jump perfectly to reach that certain spot? or knowing on Mario that you can jump on the top of the level to reach the secret end and skip levels?
Yes let’s compare to combat. To be similar, my warrior would have to learn a certain skill. Now when we go to fight, I would have to personally position his footing, grip my sword a certain way, identify the style my opponent uses, swing my sword to an exact weak spot at a certain speed. And I guess to truly be comparable I’d have to also have known how to properly strap on my armor and hang my sword as well as know the best way to keep it sharpened with my stone and oil my armor.
Is that the detail level that combat is going to depend on player skill?
yup - pretty similar to combat in many games that don't use tab targeting or rely on spamming a loadout or firing off your attacks in a preset manner with a macro
you don't 'have' to identify the style your opponent uses, or swing your sword to an 'exact' weak spot at a certain speed - it's just highly beneficial to be able to do so
for example i play a lot of Pubg - it helps to know what weapon my enemy has vs what weapon i have - if all i have is a machete or a pistol and my opponent has a tommy gun, i'm going to approach tthe encounter completely differently than if i had a scoped out and fully geared out M4
by observing them, and I rarely come across the same enemy twice, I determine what his style of play is, aggressive, peeker, defensive, lurer etc
it also helps to know that a head shot is more effective than a body or limb shot - a head shot can instakill depending upon what weapon you have and what helmet they are wearing
body shots are easier to make but take more to bring an enemy down
so you make it sound like this incredulous thing that will be difficult to achieve when in fact it is already common place in one form or another in many games
What if someone backed the game intending to be a specific profession. And when the game goes live, that person simply sucks at the profession they were planning to do. Is a player punished for not being as deft with a mouse. Because let's stay in reality and realise we're only using a keyboard and mouse or maybe a controller. No one is actually standing over a forge.
And what about the other professions. blacksmithing is, in a sense the default profession because it has so many steps. But what about something basic like scribing. (could you imagine the contracts if they are written with a mouse) or animal breeding. How is player skill used in all the professions, this is something i hope they will explain.
And finally is this fun/do I have time. Others have mentioned this. This has to be enjoyable. If we don't even enjoy it, what exactly are we paying for? And while there will always be a segment that lives for this kind of gameplay, does it potentially alienate a larger group who simply don't have the time the new crafting would require.
these are good points
i think one thing that has been made clear in a number of other comments from the devs is that you are only going to need to be present if you are looking at creating stuff that has a chance of raising your skill level
let's use smithing as an example since it seems to be the one most of us are familiar with
i start off as an apprentice and have no idea how to make iron ingots - i am going to have to go through the steps in person until i have become proficient at making iron ingots
once i have achieved that proficiency, i no longer have to be present every time i want to make iron ingots
i will be able to script my OPC (Offline Player Character) to make all the iron ingots that my available resources allow for
that way when i log back in and want to level my smithing more, the ingots are ready and waiting for me to use them in furthering my skills
once you become proficient at making swords, you should be able to make them with your OPC
this means that you only have to go through the lengthy process in person IF you want to raise your skill level in any profession, and the chore stuff can be done while you're sleeping or at work etc
as i have mentioned several times in this thread, i'm not a dedicated crafter, but when i have logged in my crafting toons to make stuff it's a pain to have to smelt the ore, make ingots, make linings for armor, then craft the armor etc, if i have already done it countless times
if i am understanding it correctly, their system takes that time sink and chore part of crafting stuff you already know out of it, and makes the skills needed to raise proficiency more of a challenge
If you are REALLY bad at player skill checks for cooking, maybe a Chef is the wrong profession.
If you are REALLY bad at player skill checks for smithing, maybe don't choose a Smith
If you are REALLY bad at play... oh, well, I hope you get it
Edit to add:
Honestly @slapshot1188, why not just apply your logic to Combat
If my character has the Character Skill to kill something, why doesn't it just auto-kill whatever I'm fighting? Why do I have to use any strategy at all in killing it and avoiding death? Why should my player skill influence how well my character fights if my character is a Grandmaster Uber Legendary warrior, why does it matter that I'm really bad at fighting?
Is that not the same thing?
Yes let’s compare to combat. To be similar, my warrior would have to learn a certain skill. Now when we go to fight, I would have to personally position his footing, grip my sword a certain way, identify the style my opponent uses, swing my sword to an exact weak spot at a certain speed. And I guess to truly be comparable I’d have to also have known how to properly strap on my armor and hang my sword as well as know the best way to keep it sharpened with my stone and oil my armor.
Is that the detail level that combat is going to depend on player skill?
I'm not going to get involved in the semantics, but your both looking at the same thing with the same thoughts and coming up with widely different opinion which I'm confused about.
To me it's this simple, to become good at a skill as a character involves you as a person learning how the mechanics of the crafting system works. From what I read it doesn't need real world knowledge, it needs knowledge of how the game will work to become proficient crafting.
So my question now is how is this different from a player in another game learning how to wall jump for instance?, or for me to jump perfectly to reach that certain spot? or knowing on Mario that you can jump on the top of the level to reach the secret end and skip levels?
Great example. If you think Mario is an RPG then this would make sense. You can make that argument I do not classify Mario as an RPG. As I said there is no wrong opinion in this case but it’s not something I personally would want in an RPG.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Yes let’s compare to combat. To be similar, my warrior would have to learn a certain skill. Now when we go to fight, I would have to personally position his footing, grip my sword a certain way, identify the style my opponent uses, swing my sword to an exact weak spot at a certain speed. And I guess to truly be comparable I’d have to also have known how to properly strap on my armor and hang my sword as well as know the best way to keep it sharpened with my stone and oil my armor.
Is that the detail level that combat is going to depend on player skill?
yup - pretty similar to combat in many games that don't use tab targeting or rely on spamming a loadout or firing off your attacks in a preset manner with a macro
you don't 'have' to identify the style your opponent uses, or swing your sword to an 'exact' weak spot at a certain speed - it's just highly beneficial to be able to do so
for example i play a lot of Pubg - it helps to know what weapon my enemy has vs what weapon i have - if all i have is a machete or a pistol and my opponent has a tommy gun, i'm going to approach tthe encounter completely differently than if i had a scoped out and fully geared out M4
by observing them, and I rarely come across the same enemy twice, I determine what his style of play is, aggressive, peeker, defensive, lurer etc
it also helps to know that a head shot is more effective than a body or limb shot - a head shot can instakill depending upon what weapon you have and what helmet they are wearing
body shots are easier to make but take more to bring an enemy down
so you make it sound like this incredulous thing that will be difficult to achieve when in fact it is already common place in one form or another in many games
Similar to the Mario post. This makes sense if you consider PUBG an RPG. I like PUBG but never considered it an RPG. If you feel it’s the same and want more PUBG in your COE then go for it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
If you are REALLY bad at player skill checks for cooking, maybe a Chef is the wrong profession.
If you are REALLY bad at player skill checks for smithing, maybe don't choose a Smith
If you are REALLY bad at play... oh, well, I hope you get it
Edit to add:
Honestly @slapshot1188, why not just apply your logic to Combat
If my character has the Character Skill to kill something, why doesn't it just auto-kill whatever I'm fighting? Why do I have to use any strategy at all in killing it and avoiding death? Why should my player skill influence how well my character fights if my character is a Grandmaster Uber Legendary warrior, why does it matter that I'm really bad at fighting?
Is that not the same thing?
Yes let’s compare to combat. To be similar, my warrior would have to learn a certain skill. Now when we go to fight, I would have to personally position his footing, grip my sword a certain way, identify the style my opponent uses, swing my sword to an exact weak spot at a certain speed. And I guess to truly be comparable I’d have to also have known how to properly strap on my armor and hang my sword as well as know the best way to keep it sharpened with my stone and oil my armor.
Is that the detail level that combat is going to depend on player skill?
I'm not going to get involved in the semantics, but your both looking at the same thing with the same thoughts and coming up with widely different opinion which I'm confused about.
To me it's this simple, to become good at a skill as a character involves you as a person learning how the mechanics of the crafting system works. From what I read it doesn't need real world knowledge, it needs knowledge of how the game will work to become proficient crafting.
So my question now is how is this different from a player in another game learning how to wall jump for instance?, or for me to jump perfectly to reach that certain spot? or knowing on Mario that you can jump on the top of the level to reach the secret end and skip levels?
Great example. If you think Mario is an RPG then this would make sense. You can make that argument I do not classify Mario as an RPG. As I said there is no wrong opinion in this case but it’s not something I personally would want in an RPG.
No I count it a game just like Coe will be a game and will require player knowledge and skill just like Mario did...
Similar to the Mario post. This makes sense if you consider PUBG an RPG. I like PUBG but never considered it an RPG. If you feel it’s the same and want more PUBG in your COE then go for it.
not sure whether to sigh or laugh
lemme redo it for you:
yup - pretty similar to combat in many games that don't use tab targeting or rely on spamming a loadout or firing off your attacks in a preset manner with a macro
you don't 'have' to identify the style your opponent uses, or swing your sword to an 'exact' weak spot at a certain speed - it's just highly beneficial to be able to do so
for example i also play a lot of Conan Exiles - it helps to know what weapon my enemy has vs what weapon i have - if all i have is a stone sword and my opponent has a an iron one and a shield, i'm going to approach tthe encounter completely differently than if i had an ancient bow and Black Ice longsword
by observing them, and I rarely come across the same enemy twice, I determine what his style of play is, aggressive, peeker, defensive, lurer etc
it also helps to know that a head shot is more effective than a body or limb shot - a head shot can instakill depending upon what weapon you have and what helmet they are wearing (this coming out in the new patch Conan Exiles is meant to be dropping with updated combat mechanics and a new larger map)
body shots are easier to make but take more to bring an enemy down
so you make it sound like this incredulous thing that will be difficult to achieve when in fact it is already common place in one form or another in many games
that better for you, or are we now going to discuss/argue that Conan Exiles isn't an RPG?
Comments
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
The reason to have the success or failure hinge on your own ability to play the game is what will add depth and, in my opinion, enjoyment to crafting. I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is probably not for everyone, and that's ok, because not every game is for everyone. I dislike Sci-Fi games, hence I'm not much into Star Citizen, it doesn't mean I think their game will be crap or not fun, it's just not going to be something I'm into, and I'm ok with that as well as I'm sure their Dev team is ok with that too because they certainly aren't hurting for funds due to my dis-interest
Also, how exactly did Iron Chef Slapshot become the Expert for Decades that he is if you are so poor at using the crafting system in the first place?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
The game is a combination of Character Skill and Player Skill. From my understanding on how the game mechanics are supposed to work:
You can't produce items that require a very high Character Skill with a novice character regardless of your own Player Skill
Your Player Skill will influence how well you succeed or fail when crafting items that your Character has the skill to create
Does that make sense?
whether they get answered or not isn't up to me
Just read what you wrote:
Your Player Skill will influence how well you succeed or fail when crafting items that your Character has the skill to create
My player skill determines my success at a process my character is skilled in...
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Ok so clearly, you do understand how it works
You just don't "like" how it works, which is ok
If you are REALLY bad at player skill checks for cooking, maybe a Chef is the wrong profession.
If you are REALLY bad at player skill checks for smithing, maybe don't choose a Smith
If you are REALLY bad at play... oh, well, I hope you get it
Edit to add:
Honestly @slapshot1188, why not just apply your logic to Combat
If my character has the Character Skill to kill something, why doesn't it just auto-kill whatever I'm fighting? Why do I have to use any strategy at all in killing it and avoiding death? Why should my player skill influence how well my character fights if my character is a Grandmaster Uber Legendary warrior? Why would it matter if I'm bad at fighting and have bad hand-eye coordination IRL? Shouldn't my character be able to just slaughter any and everything without me doing anything at all?
Is that not the same thing?
Is that the detail level that combat is going to depend on player skill?
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
What if someone backed the game intending to be a specific profession. And when the game goes live, that person simply sucks at the profession they were planning to do. Is a player punished for not being as deft with a mouse. Because let's stay in reality and realise we're only using a keyboard and mouse or maybe a controller. No one is actually standing over a forge.
And what about the other professions. blacksmithing is, in a sense the default profession because it has so many steps. But what about something basic like scribing. (could you imagine the contracts if they are written with a mouse) or animal breeding. How is player skill used in all the professions, this is something i hope they will explain.
And finally is this fun/do I have time. Others have mentioned this. This has to be enjoyable. If we don't even enjoy it, what exactly are we paying for? And while there will always be a segment that lives for this kind of gameplay, does it potentially alienate a larger group who simply don't have the time the new crafting would require.
As such, a single player is not going to being out, harvesting ore, killing mobs, ruling cities, slaying dragons and also doing weaving, jewel craft, and leather work.
So, players will need to focus on what they plan to do.. wonder how he will handle basic materials gathering, like mining, and the like.
Should be a very cool game.
I think you missed the point
The point is that there are already Player Skill checks for combat in every MMO that has any combat at all
So why would it be so crazy to have Player Skill checks when crafting in a new MMO to make crafting more interesting and difficult?
To me it's this simple, to become good at a skill as a character involves you as a person learning how the mechanics of the crafting system works.
From what I read it doesn't need real world knowledge, it needs knowledge of how the game will work to become proficient crafting.
So my question now is how is this different from a player in another game learning how to wall jump for instance?, or for me to jump perfectly to reach that certain spot? or knowing on Mario that you can jump on the top of the level to reach the secret end and skip levels?
you don't 'have' to identify the style your opponent uses, or swing your sword to an 'exact' weak spot at a certain speed - it's just highly beneficial to be able to do so
for example i play a lot of Pubg - it helps to know what weapon my enemy has vs what weapon i have - if all i have is a machete or a pistol and my opponent has a tommy gun, i'm going to approach tthe encounter completely differently than if i had a scoped out and fully geared out M4
by observing them, and I rarely come across the same enemy twice, I determine what his style of play is, aggressive, peeker, defensive, lurer etc
it also helps to know that a head shot is more effective than a body or limb shot - a head shot can instakill depending upon what weapon you have and what helmet they are wearing
body shots are easier to make but take more to bring an enemy down
so you make it sound like this incredulous thing that will be difficult to achieve when in fact it is already common place in one form or another in many games
i think one thing that has been made clear in a number of other comments from the devs is that you are only going to need to be present if you are looking at creating stuff that has a chance of raising your skill level
let's use smithing as an example since it seems to be the one most of us are familiar with
i start off as an apprentice and have no idea how to make iron ingots - i am going to have to go through the steps in person until i have become proficient at making iron ingots
once i have achieved that proficiency, i no longer have to be present every time i want to make iron ingots
i will be able to script my OPC (Offline Player Character) to make all the iron ingots that my available resources allow for
that way when i log back in and want to level my smithing more, the ingots are ready and waiting for me to use them in furthering my skills
once you become proficient at making swords, you should be able to make them with your OPC
this means that you only have to go through the lengthy process in person IF you want to raise your skill level in any profession, and the chore stuff can be done while you're sleeping or at work etc
as i have mentioned several times in this thread, i'm not a dedicated crafter, but when i have logged in my crafting toons to make stuff it's a pain to have to smelt the ore, make ingots, make linings for armor, then craft the armor etc, if i have already done it countless times
if i am understanding it correctly, their system takes that time sink and chore part of crafting stuff you already know out of it, and makes the skills needed to raise proficiency more of a challenge
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Similar to the Mario post. This makes sense if you consider PUBG an RPG. I like PUBG but never considered it an RPG. If you feel it’s the same and want more PUBG in your COE then go for it.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
lemme redo it for you:
yup - pretty similar to combat in many games that don't use tab targeting or rely on spamming a loadout or firing off your attacks in a preset manner with a macro
you don't 'have' to identify the style your opponent uses, or swing your sword to an 'exact' weak spot at a certain speed - it's just highly beneficial to be able to do so
for example i also play a lot of Conan Exiles - it helps to know what weapon my enemy has vs what weapon i have - if all i have is a stone sword and my opponent has a an iron one and a shield, i'm going to approach tthe encounter completely differently than if i had an ancient bow and Black Ice longsword
by observing them, and I rarely come across the same enemy twice, I determine what his style of play is, aggressive, peeker, defensive, lurer etc
it also helps to know that a head shot is more effective than a body or limb shot - a head shot can instakill depending upon what weapon you have and what helmet they are wearing (this coming out in the new patch Conan Exiles is meant to be dropping with updated combat mechanics and a new larger map)
body shots are easier to make but take more to bring an enemy down
so you make it sound like this incredulous thing that will be difficult to achieve when in fact it is already common place in one form or another in many games
that better for you, or are we now going to discuss/argue that Conan Exiles isn't an RPG?
OK
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
1. PUBG is a shooter, whereas CoE is minecraft
2. PUBG is an established game, CoE is a pipe dream
FTFY
yw