@Slapshot If you wish to debate Exposition once again and the fact that there is absolutely no EP store at this time. If you read the title of that thread, it is just a projection of what -might- be in the EP Store. Then please start another thread. This thread is in regard to the Crafting system in Elyria.
Simply responding to others. As you responded to me. Whether you can buy these crafting techniques or can only get them in game is very relevant to the discussion. The techniques and recipes have a significant impact on the system. You yourself post a quote from a developer where he discusses how you obtain them. You can’t post this quote:
@Slapshot If you wish to debate Exposition once again and the fact that there is absolutely no EP store at this time. If you read the title of that thread, it is just a projection of what -might- be in the EP Store. Then please start another thread. This thread is in regard to the Crafting system in Elyria.
Simply responding to others. As you responded to me. Whether you can buy these crafting techniques or can only get them in game is very relevant to the discussion. The techniques and recipes have a significant impact on the system. You yourself post a quote from a developer where he discusses how you obtain them. You can’t post this quote:
And then complain when when we discuss it. It’s your own damn post.
Have a great day.
nah - i said i would ask Serpentius
you clearly try to steer the convo back to the same old topics of pay to win, cash shop after launch, broken timelines at every opportunity and in every thread you can
weaving it into every topic stating 'oh it's related' is just getting monotonous - but hey, if that's how you like to portray yourself it's all good
@Slapshot If you wish to debate Exposition once again and the fact that there is absolutely no EP store at this time. If you read the title of that thread, it is just a projection of what -might- be in the EP Store. Then please start another thread. This thread is in regard to the Crafting system in Elyria.
Simply responding to others. As you responded to me. Whether you can buy these crafting techniques or can only get them in game is very relevant to the discussion. The techniques and recipes have a significant impact on the system. You yourself post a quote from a developer where he discusses how you obtain them. You can’t post this quote:
And then complain when when we discuss it. It’s your own damn post.
Have a great day.
nah - i said i would ask Serpentius
you clearly try to steer the convo back to the same old topics of pay to win, cash shop after launch, broken timelines at every opportunity and in every thread you can
weaving it into every topic stating 'oh it's related' is just getting monotonous - but hey, if that's how you like to portray yourself it's all good
thought you were better than that - ah well
You said you were "interviewing Sniperhunter, the author of the dev journal" on April 12th"
yeah - It clearly was meant to be Snipehunter in my comment, not Serpentius
ty for pointing that out in case anybody thought i was lying or twisting things
as for expectations as to what i would ask, i made it clear i thought you made one valid point that in my opinion merited asking, and that was to ask for clarification as to when they said recipes can be purchased, if that meant during expo, from npc's, from players. or from a post launch cash shop
I must say I think the attacking of slapshot then wasn't warranted, I brought up a legitimate concern about the purchase of recipes, and he responded with a reply.
His reply (if I understand it correct) was,
they are able to be purchased during expo, so the question is will the be available after expo.
Whilst he may have mentioned this before it's still a valid point in response to my concern. Just the same as your points regarding your understanding about them being purchased from NPCs were relevant.
In my opinion this needs clarifying in the Q&A that @Dleatherus will be having just so we can either confirm or rule out p2w on the recipe topic.
it's not so much of an attack as stating my position clearly
we have gone from me stating that i would be more than happy to ask one of his questions regarding whether recipes would be for sale in an after-launch cash shop to Slapshot now implying that i would be answering many of the questions he has posed
for the record i am NOT going to be asking if there will be a cash shop after launch selling cosmetic items, and if that extends to things like patterns and techniques for crafting
i will be asking the question as i stated a couple of posts earlier:
these are subtle things but i want to make it clear since in the past some of my words have been taken out of context, and I don't want to have the situation twisted to "D said he would ask if there was going to be a cash shop after launch, and he should have pressed that point as he agreed to"
Slapshot always brings the topic back to those points of missed deadlines, cash shop, pay to win etc and i'm not going to further his agenda in our interview - he's more than welcome to set up his own interviews, ask the questions in the twitch text chat as i suggested etc
it's not so much of an attack as stating my position clearly
we have gone from me stating that i would be more than happy to ask one of his questions regarding whether recipes would be for sale in an after-launch cash shop to Slapshot now implying that i would be answering many of the questions he has posed
for the record i am NOT going to be asking if there will be a cash shop after launch selling cosmetic items, and if that extends to things like patterns and techniques for crafting
i will be asking the question as i stated a couple of posts earlier:
these are subtle things but i want to make it clear since in the past some of my words have been taken out of context, and I don't want to have the situation twisted to "D said he would ask if there was going to be a cash shop after launch, and he should have pressed that point as he agreed to"
Slapshot always brings the topic back to those points of missed deadlines, cash shop, pay to win etc and i'm not going to further his agenda in our interview - he's more than welcome to set up his own interviews, ask the questions in the twitch text chat as i suggested etc
Was more talking to mystichase and I understood that as the question you were going to ask
I must say I think the attacking of slapshot then wasn't warranted, I brought up a legitimate concern about the purchase of recipes, and he responded with a reply.
His reply (if I understand it correct) was,
they are able to be purchased during expo, so the question is will the be available after expo.
Whilst he may have mentioned this before it's still a valid point in response to my concern. Just the same as your points regarding your understanding about them being purchased from NPCs were relevant.
In my opinion this needs clarifying in the Q&A that @Dleatherus will be having just so we can either confirm or rule out p2w on the recipe topic.
for the record i am NOT going to be asking if there will be a cash shop after launch selling cosmetic items, and if that extends to things like patterns and techniques for crafting
Why wouldn’t you simply ask if, as originally stated they will only sell Sparks and SoulPacks at launch? That would clear up all ambiguity. An answer of Yes... would mean no selling of recipes, patterns, no cosmetics, no swords, etc... And no the ambiguity wasn’t introduced by Slapshot but by the developer.
If you do not know the answer to that... why in the world would you not ask when you had the opportunity? The answer has huge implications for the crafting system being discussed... and all the other aspects of the game.
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yeah - i was addressing the bit where Slapshot's shift was to:
"Recent quotes seem to indicate that Caspien is open to selling items (at least cosmetics) that can be found or made in game. Hopefully Dleatherus can get clarification on that and if it would possibly extend to things like patterns and techniques for crafting."
the implication is that i'm going to be addressing the question of an afterlaunch cash shop, and then if it would possibly extend to things like patterns and techniques for crafting vs. my being specific as to clarification as to what is meant by the term 'purchased' as it pertains to the comment of "Existing recipes are going to be found, purchased or taught in the world."
Why wouldn’t you simply ask if, as originally stated they will only sell Sparks and SoulPacks at launch? That would clear up all ambiguity. An answer of Yes... would mean no selling of recipes, patterns, no cosmetics, no swords, etc... And no the ambiguity wasn’t introduced by Slapshot but by the developer.
If you do not know the answer to that... why in the world would you not ask when you had the opportunity? The answer has huge implications for the crafting system being discussed... and all the other aspects of the game.
because my agenda in this interview is to ask questions regarding the crafting model, not their financial model.
asking whether they intend to sell recipes in a cash shop after launch, or whether 'purchased in world' means what most of us thought in terms of from npc's and/or other players satisfies the criteria as it pertains to crafting
if i do an interview regarding their financial model, i'll be sure to ask the question in a broader fashion
it's not so much of an attack as stating my position clearly
we have gone from me stating that i would be more than happy to ask one of his questions regarding whether recipes would be for sale in an after-launch cash shop to Slapshot now implying that i would be answering many of the questions he has posed
for the record i am NOT going to be asking if there will be a cash shop after launch selling cosmetic items, and if that extends to things like patterns and techniques for crafting
i will be asking the question as i stated a couple of posts earlier:
these are subtle things but i want to make it clear since in the past some of my words have been taken out of context, and I don't want to have the situation twisted to "D said he would ask if there was going to be a cash shop after launch, and he should have pressed that point as he agreed to"
Slapshot always brings the topic back to those points of missed deadlines, cash shop, pay to win etc and i'm not going to further his agenda in our interview - he's more than welcome to set up his own interviews, ask the questions in the twitch text chat as i suggested etc
Was more talking to mystichase and I understood that as the question you were going to ask
Then let me respond. The three-month building stage and the EP shop is brought up by Slapshot in every single thread (Referred to as a three-month head start and pay to win shop). It has been debated repeatedly, and the only thing resulting from it is that there is a huge difference of opinion as to what it really is. This behavior is so predictable that I can foresee exactly when Slap is going to bring it up. This thread wasn't created to be a repeat of the same arguments, but rather the intended mechanics of the Crafting System and I would rather it stay that way.
I do feel that in what Snipehunter said he was referring to items being found, purchased or learned in-game, however...
If you want to know my feelings about recipes being purchasable? From what we know there won't be cash-shop after launch. (It has never been confirmed differently) All that was ever said on the matter was Caspian stating it would be possible to sell cosmetics in a store. But if there was an after-launch store, and it sold purchasable recipes that weren't available in-game, then yes, I would definitely consider that a pay to win feature and would be highly opposed to it.
It has been stated by Caspian, as you can see by the thread that Slapshot posted that there might be a variety of recipes available in the EP store. (It is my understanding that EP can only be used by Bloodline and above, but Dheatherus can correct me if I am wrong) Now the reason I don't consider this a pay to win feature is that the EP store is available for backers to seed the world with a variety of different things and provide the allusion of Elyria being an old, established world once the game launches. (I do not want a repeat debate as in if the EP store is pay to build or pay to win so let's not go there).
Now when you think about recipes being available for merchants and crafters post-launch, you also need to consider that it has been stated that in order to advance in your Crafting skills you will have to spend a certain amount of time teaching/apprenticing other players in your craft. By SBS seeding the world and their post-launch players with some current recipes it offers something that can be taught to new, younger characters coming in. So that once the backer's Characters start dying off of old age, or careless lives, then there will be a new Generation of characters with the skills to step in and assume those roles.
I hope that helps to clear up my responses Oldfart. I just don't want to have the same argument that I have endured several times in the threads posted here.
Then let me respond. The three-month building stage and the EP shop is brought up by Slapshot in every single thread here.
Typical exaggeration. Not even close. Only when it's pertinent IMHO to the topic at hand. In this case it has been explained to you why it was pertinent. It directly relates to the developer quote that YOU posted. How the recipes are obtained is clearly a topic related to the crafting dev diary and thus the developer responded to it. His response (in your very post) prompted OldFart to question the part about buying them.
If Dleatherus gets clarification then we will know whether or not the ability to purchase recipes for cash extends beyond the 3 month head start or not. Then this will not be asked again... unless it is reopened by a future developer comment. If we get clarity that NOTHING (except souls and sparks) will be sold in the shop after launch, then that would be even better and head off future questions.
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I believe you two won't agree on much lol but hey that's life we don't all have to agree right.
So we have all said why we think it was or wasn't pertinent to the conversation so let's get back on track.
I hope snipehunter confirms that it will only be npc's/pc's to purchase the recipes from. I wonder what other questions will be asked. I'm looking forward to hearing more about this crafting system
Why wouldn’t you simply ask if, as originally stated they will only sell Sparks and SoulPacks at launch? That would clear up all ambiguity. An answer of Yes... would mean no selling of recipes, patterns, no cosmetics, no swords, etc... And no the ambiguity wasn’t introduced by Slapshot but by the developer.
If you do not know the answer to that... why in the world would you not ask when you had the opportunity? The answer has huge implications for the crafting system being discussed... and all the other aspects of the game.
because my agenda in this interview is to ask questions regarding the crafting model, not their financial model.
asking whether they intend to sell recipes in a cash shop after launch, or whether 'purchased in world' means what most of us thought in terms of from npc's and/or other players satisfies the criteria as it pertains to crafting
if i do an interview regarding their financial model, i'll be sure to ask the question in a broader fashion
Actually, if Bill and the gang here are any indication, asking about the manner in which things like recipes are attained by players is as much about the crafting system as the monetization, though it may be both. It would be a natural question to ask in an interview about a crafting system.
I am just curious if there are any other questions that folks would like to have asked? Of course, it isn't my show, nor is there a guarantee they would be asked. But it might give Dheatherus some ideas for the interview.
For me, I am curious what the process of skill advancement might look like in CoE. For example, when and what would the process of transitioning from apprenticeship to teaching to experimenting with new technology look like? *Hopes that makes sense*
I am just curious if there are any other questions that folks would like to have asked? Of course, it isn't my show, nor is there a guarantee they would be asked. But it might give Dheatherus some ideas for the interview.
For me, I am curious what the process of skill advancement might look like in CoE. For example, when and what would the process of transitioning from apprenticeship to teaching to experimenting with new technology look like? *Hopes that makes sense*
As previously stated- Can you buy recipes and techniques for cash after launch
If people "discover" something that you haven't put in the game yet, what will happen? (regarding this quote: the idea is that through research you can "inform" us of the new content we need to create, sorta. )
What skills are planned to have this system? Is it all crafting?
Will all those planned be implemented at launch or will there be placeholder systems?
How will the gathering be balanced against the crafting? Typical gatherers grab tons of stuff (ie, the wagon/carts in the store) and then head back to town. That level of resources seem to be far more than would be needed in most cases. (It's been stated that no grinding will be needed and you can breakdown and reuse items). How long would a wagon load of ore take a typical blacksmith to deplete?
(edit to add) How long would it take a competent smith to craft a full set of plate armor from scratch? (assuming he met the basic knowledge requirement)
Will the visual and audio clues account for those with disabilities such as color blindness or hearing loss? ie: Will there be text related to the audio clues that those folks can use?
Will there be some fatigue factor to crafting?
Will crafting be multiplayer oriented. By that I mean, can one person man the bellows of the forge while another holds the ore in the heat... etc... etc... If so will the visual and audio clues be lenient enough to allow for latency?
Will character stats affect crafting? ex: If I am stronger would I get a bonus to smithing?
Will these visual clues be tested in Minecraft Elyria?
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I am just curious if there are any other questions that folks would like to have asked? Of course, it isn't my show, nor is there a guarantee they would be asked. But it might give Dheatherus some ideas for the interview.
For me, I am curious what the process of skill advancement might look like in CoE. For example, when and what would the process of transitioning from apprenticeship to teaching to experimenting with new technology look like? *Hopes that makes sense*
I had a lot of questions on page 3. But the most telling might be 'Will a single player be able to learn every possible craft?' Some players will have far more time to spend on this game than others, and won't be fazed by extravagant learning penalties. Every other game without explicit barriers to 'do anything for yourself' has always had characters that do exactly that -- craft anything they personally need themselves. That kills any independence and interdependence which may exist between crafts, hurts any economy based on crafted goods, and reduces player-to-player interaction.
It's a relatively deep yes or no question, but I would very much expect anything but a yes or no answer. At best, an answer from these developers is likely to be couched in vagueness and a lot of double speak. That speaks of uncertainty in design, a plan that hasn't been thought out yet. That's seems to be a huge issue with this game; there has been very little that can be taken as a hard fact, or worded in such a way that leaves a great deal to individual interpretation.
A large number of the disagreements that have occurred in this very thread seem to derive from the vagueness of statements by this developer. Those that believe the developer's statements at face value take issue with anyone that has difficulty in accepting the same statements without some degree of skepticism. Basically, this entire thread is divided along 'believers' and 'skeptics' lines.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I am just curious if there are any other questions that folks would like to have asked? Of course, it isn't my show, nor is there a guarantee they would be asked. But it might give Dheatherus some ideas for the interview.
For me, I am curious what the process of skill advancement might look like in CoE. For example, when and what would the process of transitioning from apprenticeship to teaching to experimenting with new technology look like? *Hopes that makes sense*
I had a lot of questions on page 3. But the most telling might be 'Will a single player be able to learn every possible craft?' Some players will have far more time to spend on this game than others, and won't be fazed by extravagant learning penalties. Every other game without explicit barriers to 'do anything for yourself' has always had characters that do exactly that -- craft anything they personally need themselves. That kills any independence and interdependence which may exist between crafts, hurts any economy based on crafted goods, and reduces player-to-player interaction.
It's a relatively deep yes or no question, but I would very much expect anything but a yes or no answer. At best, an answer from these developers is likely to be couched in vagueness and a lot of double speak. That speaks of uncertainty in design, a plan that hasn't been thought out yet. That's seems to be a huge issue with this game; there has been very little that can be taken as a hard fact, or worded in such a way that leaves a great deal to individual interpretation.
A large number of the disagreements that have occurred in this very thread seem to derive from the vagueness of statements by this developer. Those that believe the developer's statements at face value take issue with anyone that has difficulty in accepting the same statements without some degree of skepticism. Basically, this entire thread is divided along 'believers' and 'skeptics' lines.
Regarding the first part: Technically you can try to work on anything you want, but you only gain skill in what you use. You age and die and then get a skill ramp to relearn those skills faster. So I think in practice it would be impossible to be "good" at more than a few things.
Regarding the last part: Until there is something tangible to see and play with, it will always come down to believers and realists.
Someday there will be an actual game and then there will be no more discussions about what might happen. Until then it provides plenty of fodder to keep the forums flowing.
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I am pretty sure Mendel that the answer to your question would be No, one character will not be able to be a Master crafter in everything, for all the reasons you gave in your post. I know this has been discussed before in the community but I just can't recall where I have seen it. I will have a look after supper.
I will post ONE word Mendel and i hope you and others "get it".>>>ALTS This OLD way of thinking was NEVER correct,did not make sense and was NEVER limiting anything. I can point to even another limitation used by SOE and of course Wow that copied SOE,the idea of limiting drops to sole user and group.Well all players did to nullify that was sit on item,yell in chat until someone came to get it and purchase it.
This kind of stuff happens because devs have no hindsight or common sense to see beyond their lines of code.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Furthermore the obvious,if you have less time as mentioned,how is limiting crafts going to help you at all,there are going to be players in EVERY craft with more time than you,so you will still be behind the eight ball ...forever.
It so happens i played all the systems,paid very close attention to economies and how stuff works in general.
The BEST way to keep crafting in check is to make it cumbersome to the point not everyone will want to do it and people will just buy from you rather than spend the time,so EVERYONE wins.
If it is so easy to craft then obviously nobody will require the services of others and the game will suffer.You also need to make items valuable.
I wil use an example from within FFXI 10 years after the game started.Ok i said 10 because at that point the low end economy should be dried up dead right...nope.There is a bigger reason but to keep it short,i came back to the game and at level 1-10 i could farm Sheepskin and craft it into sheep leather and sell it for a lot of gold for a noob. Reason,that Sheepskin was still needed by high level crafters as crafting was not limited tier by tier like most games do but kept low end stuff important.High level crafters couildn't be bothered to go back to noob zoens and farm sheepskin,so the yjust bought it from noobs,so you see even if LESS time and still a noob you win from this type of design,ev1 wins.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I am pretty sure Mendel that the answer to your question would be No, one character will not be able to be a Master crafter in everything, for all the reasons you gave in your post. I know this has been discussed before in the community but I just can't recall where I have seen it. I will have a look after supper.
I specifically asked about 'players', not characters.
Alts contribute more to the issues I mentioned, lack of dependence on other characters and curtailing an economy. Your main needs a new weapon. So, you pass the materials to the appropriate crafter alt, they make the item and pass it back. Where's the economic exchange of wealth? Where's the dependence on another character? Where even is the interaction?
If this game is going to turn into yet another alt fest, it will end up with all the problems other MMORPGs have had, and will offer no new solutions.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Hmm, well Mendel I didn't find what I was looking for but I did find this and it might help to answer your question. Keep in mind this is an older Developer Journal and clearly, the actual visual process of crafting system has changed, but I believe everything else remains the same.
Professions in most MMOs such as Weaponsmith, Alchemist, etc. are pre-defined from the beginning. In keeping with our existing classless design principles, Chronicles of Elyria doesn't define specific professions. Instead, it encourages players to take skills from across different skill trees and combine them in unique ways in order to define their own professions.
As an example, if you're a Blacksmith with a specialty in making weapon blades, that also has skills in carpentry, and maybe in filigree, then you could rightly call yourself a Swordsmith. This level of specialization allows you to reach the higher crafting tiers in the areas you want, while ignoring those that you don't.
And this..
One thing we've done in an attempt to prevent endless grinding is to, in the case of crafting, provide item specialization. This means that you can become a master of crafting specific items, even before becoming a master at your specific craft or trade. This has to two fundamental implications.
It means that if you want to become a master weapon smith, able to create Sword blades that are unparalleled in the land, you can do that simply by crafting sword blades. You don't have to craft metal tools, axe blades, or metal steaks in order to get your blacksmithing skills high enough. Spend your time focusing on the things you want to make.
As we'll talk about more in a later design journal, CoE is a game of technology and research. At some point in the future someone may (hypothetically speaking) discover the ability to make longbows, recurve bows, and eventually compound bows. In other MMOs, the discovery of a recurve bow would force all new players to grind through knowledge of how to make short bows and long bows just to learn how to make a recurve bow.
This results in wasted time, and wasted resources. In Chronicles of Elyria, if you were to discover or learn how to make Recurve Bows, your success in doing so would of course be influenced by your overall Crafting Skills in Ranged Weapons and Carpentry, however there's nothing preventing you from jumping straight to Recurve bows and growing your skills on those. Of course, your early results may be horrible, but you'll advance quicker at developing recurve bows if you actually practice making recurve bows, than if you were to practice making short bows.
Comments
So, want a Katana? Get yourself a recipe for a curved single edged blade with a hidden tang, a recipe for the handle wrap, and one for the guard and then assemble them into a katana. As for how you get recipes: Existing recipes are going to be found, purchased or taught in the world.
Read more at https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/472781/how-crafting-will-differ-in-coe-compared-to-more-traditional-mmos/p5#6Ud8xUExXgZxqqfY.99
And then complain when when we discuss it. It’s your own damn post.
Have a great day.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
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All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
you clearly try to steer the convo back to the same old topics of pay to win, cash shop after launch, broken timelines at every opportunity and in every thread you can
weaving it into every topic stating 'oh it's related' is just getting monotonous - but hey, if that's how you like to portray yourself it's all good
thought you were better than that - ah well
also, i will be interviewing Snipehunter, the author of the dev journal this thread was created in response to, next thursday april 12th and raise some of these questions as well as some of the concerns - feel free to watch :P
Read more at https://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/472781/how-crafting-will-differ-in-coe-compared-to-more-traditional-mmos/p4#3crXoZfYidqh8xyC.99
And you would ask some of these questions. So.. my expectation was that you would do so.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
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Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
ty for pointing that out in case anybody thought i was lying or twisting things
as for expectations as to what i would ask, i made it clear i thought you made one valid point that in my opinion merited asking, and that was to ask for clarification as to when they said recipes can be purchased, if that meant during expo, from npc's, from players. or from a post launch cash shop
His reply (if I understand it correct) was,
they are able to be purchased during expo, so the question is will the be available after expo.
Whilst he may have mentioned this before it's still a valid point in response to my concern. Just the same as your points regarding your understanding about them being purchased from NPCs were relevant.
In my opinion this needs clarifying in the Q&A that @Dleatherus will be having just so we can either confirm or rule out p2w on the recipe topic.
we have gone from me stating that i would be more than happy to ask one of his questions regarding whether recipes would be for sale in an after-launch cash shop to Slapshot now implying that i would be answering many of the questions he has posed
for the record i am NOT going to be asking if there will be a cash shop after launch selling cosmetic items, and if that extends to things like patterns and techniques for crafting
i will be asking the question as i stated a couple of posts earlier:
these are subtle things but i want to make it clear since in the past some of my words have been taken out of context, and I don't want to have the situation twisted to "D said he would ask if there was going to be a cash shop after launch, and he should have pressed that point as he agreed to"
Slapshot always brings the topic back to those points of missed deadlines, cash shop, pay to win etc and i'm not going to further his agenda in our interview - he's more than welcome to set up his own interviews, ask the questions in the twitch text chat as i suggested etc
Why wouldn’t you simply ask if, as originally stated they will only sell Sparks and SoulPacks at launch? That would clear up all ambiguity. An answer of Yes... would mean no selling of recipes, patterns, no cosmetics, no swords, etc... And no the ambiguity wasn’t introduced by Slapshot but by the developer.
If you do not know the answer to that... why in the world would you not ask when you had the opportunity? The answer has huge implications for the crafting system being discussed... and all the other aspects of the game.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
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"Recent quotes seem to indicate that Caspien is open to selling items (at least cosmetics) that can be found or made in game. Hopefully Dleatherus can get clarification on that and if it would possibly extend to things like patterns and techniques for crafting."
the implication is that i'm going to be addressing the question of an afterlaunch cash shop, and then if it would possibly extend to things like patterns and techniques for crafting vs. my being specific as to clarification as to what is meant by the term 'purchased' as it pertains to the comment of "Existing recipes are going to be found, purchased or taught in the world."
asking whether they intend to sell recipes in a cash shop after launch, or whether 'purchased in world' means what most of us thought in terms of from npc's and/or other players satisfies the criteria as it pertains to crafting
if i do an interview regarding their financial model, i'll be sure to ask the question in a broader fashion
I do feel that in what Snipehunter said he was referring to items being found, purchased or learned in-game, however...
If you want to know my feelings about recipes being purchasable? From what we know there won't be cash-shop after launch. (It has never been confirmed differently) All that was ever said on the matter was Caspian stating it would be possible to sell cosmetics in a store. But if there was an after-launch store, and it sold purchasable recipes that weren't available in-game, then yes, I would definitely consider that a pay to win feature and would be highly opposed to it.
It has been stated by Caspian, as you can see by the thread that Slapshot posted that there might be a variety of recipes available in the EP store. (It is my understanding that EP can only be used by Bloodline and above, but Dheatherus can correct me if I am wrong) Now the reason I don't consider this a pay to win feature is that the EP store is available for backers to seed the world with a variety of different things and provide the allusion of Elyria being an old, established world once the game launches. (I do not want a repeat debate as in if the EP store is pay to build or pay to win so let's not go there).
Now when you think about recipes being available for merchants and crafters post-launch, you also need to consider that it has been stated that in order to advance in your Crafting skills you will have to spend a certain amount of time teaching/apprenticing other players in your craft. By SBS seeding the world and their post-launch players with some current recipes it offers something that can be taught to new, younger characters coming in. So that once the backer's Characters start dying off of old age, or careless lives, then there will be a new Generation of characters with the skills to step in and assume those roles.
I hope that helps to clear up my responses Oldfart. I just don't want to have the same argument that I have endured several times in the threads posted here.
If Dleatherus gets clarification then we will know whether or not the ability to purchase recipes for cash extends beyond the 3 month head start or not. Then this will not be asked again... unless it is reopened by a future developer comment. If we get clarity that NOTHING (except souls and sparks) will be sold in the shop after launch, then that would be even better and head off future questions.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
So we have all said why we think it was or wasn't pertinent to the conversation so let's get back on track.
I hope snipehunter confirms that it will only be npc's/pc's to purchase the recipes from.
I wonder what other questions will be asked.
I'm looking forward to hearing more about this crafting system
For me, I am curious what the process of skill advancement might look like in CoE. For example, when and what would the process of transitioning from apprenticeship to teaching to experimenting with new technology look like? *Hopes that makes sense*
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
It's a relatively deep yes or no question, but I would very much expect anything but a yes or no answer. At best, an answer from these developers is likely to be couched in vagueness and a lot of double speak. That speaks of uncertainty in design, a plan that hasn't been thought out yet. That's seems to be a huge issue with this game; there has been very little that can be taken as a hard fact, or worded in such a way that leaves a great deal to individual interpretation.
A large number of the disagreements that have occurred in this very thread seem to derive from the vagueness of statements by this developer. Those that believe the developer's statements at face value take issue with anyone that has difficulty in accepting the same statements without some degree of skepticism. Basically, this entire thread is divided along 'believers' and 'skeptics' lines.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Regarding the last part: Until there is something tangible to see and play with, it will always come down to believers and realists.
Someday there will be an actual game and then there will be no more discussions about what might happen. Until then it provides plenty of fodder to keep the forums flowing.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
This OLD way of thinking was NEVER correct,did not make sense and was NEVER limiting anything.
I can point to even another limitation used by SOE and of course Wow that copied SOE,the idea of limiting drops to sole user and group.Well all players did to nullify that was sit on item,yell in chat until someone came to get it and purchase it.
This kind of stuff happens because devs have no hindsight or common sense to see beyond their lines of code.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
It so happens i played all the systems,paid very close attention to economies and how stuff works in general.
The BEST way to keep crafting in check is to make it cumbersome to the point not everyone will want to do it and people will just buy from you rather than spend the time,so EVERYONE wins.
If it is so easy to craft then obviously nobody will require the services of others and the game will suffer.You also need to make items valuable.
I wil use an example from within FFXI 10 years after the game started.Ok i said 10 because at that point the low end economy should be dried up dead right...nope.There is a bigger reason but to keep it short,i came back to the game and at level 1-10 i could farm Sheepskin and craft it into sheep leather and sell it for a lot of gold for a noob.
Reason,that Sheepskin was still needed by high level crafters as crafting was not limited tier by tier like most games do but kept low end stuff important.High level crafters couildn't be bothered to go back to noob zoens and farm sheepskin,so the yjust bought it from noobs,so you see even if LESS time and still a noob you win from this type of design,ev1 wins.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Alts contribute more to the issues I mentioned, lack of dependence on other characters and curtailing an economy. Your main needs a new weapon. So, you pass the materials to the appropriate crafter alt, they make the item and pass it back. Where's the economic exchange of wealth? Where's the dependence on another character? Where even is the interaction?
If this game is going to turn into yet another alt fest, it will end up with all the problems other MMORPGs have had, and will offer no new solutions.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
https://chroniclesofelyria.com/blog/663/DJ-9-Crafting-Professions
Professions in most MMOs such as Weaponsmith, Alchemist, etc. are pre-defined from the beginning. In keeping with our existing classless design principles, Chronicles of Elyria doesn't define specific professions. Instead, it encourages players to take skills from across different skill trees and combine them in unique ways in order to define their own professions.
As an example, if you're a Blacksmith with a specialty in making weapon blades, that also has skills in carpentry, and maybe in filigree, then you could rightly call yourself a Swordsmith. This level of specialization allows you to reach the higher crafting tiers in the areas you want, while ignoring those that you don't.
One thing we've done in an attempt to prevent endless grinding is to, in the case of crafting, provide item specialization. This means that you can become a master of crafting specific items, even before becoming a master at your specific craft or trade. This has to two fundamental implications.
It means that if you want to become a master weapon smith, able to create Sword blades that are unparalleled in the land, you can do that simply by crafting sword blades. You don't have to craft metal tools, axe blades, or metal steaks in order to get your blacksmithing skills high enough. Spend your time focusing on the things you want to make.
As we'll talk about more in a later design journal, CoE is a game of technology and research. At some point in the future someone may (hypothetically speaking) discover the ability to make longbows, recurve bows, and eventually compound bows. In other MMOs, the discovery of a recurve bow would force all new players to grind through knowledge of how to make short bows and long bows just to learn how to make a recurve bow.
This results in wasted time, and wasted resources. In Chronicles of Elyria, if you were to discover or learn how to make Recurve Bows, your success in doing so would of course be influenced by your overall Crafting Skills in Ranged Weapons and Carpentry, however there's nothing preventing you from jumping straight to Recurve bows and growing your skills on those. Of course, your early results may be horrible, but you'll advance quicker at developing recurve bows if you actually practice making recurve bows, than if you were to practice making short bows.