Being dispassionate about politics, sexuality, racism, gender, violence, identity, and so on is the best policy imo. And that's what valve is doing imo.
That "dispassion" is implicit consent. Don't take Jim Sterling's word for it, take Plato's. That's the dictionary definition of cop out.
Why are we always presented with only two choices? Think about it. Strange, no?
Being dispassionate about politics, sexuality, racism, gender, violence, identity, and so on is the best policy imo. And that's what valve is doing imo.
That "dispassion" is implicit consent. Don't take Jim Sterling's word for it, take Plato's. That's the dictionary definition of cop out.
Why are we always presented with only two choices? Think about it. Strange, no?
WTF are you going on about now? There are many more choices than two. Make some sense.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Being dispassionate about politics, sexuality, racism, gender, violence, identity, and so on is the best policy imo. And that's what valve is doing imo.
That "dispassion" is implicit consent. Don't take Jim Sterling's word for it, take Plato's. That's the dictionary definition of cop out.
Why are we always presented with only two choices? Think about it. Strange, no?
WTF are you going on about now? There are many more choices than two. Make some sense.
That "dispassion" is implicit consent. Where's the other choice?
Being dispassionate about politics, sexuality, racism, gender, violence, identity, and so on is the best policy imo. And that's what valve is doing imo.
That "dispassion" is implicit consent. Don't take Jim Sterling's word for it, take Plato's. That's the dictionary definition of cop out.
Why are we always presented with only two choices? Think about it. Strange, no?
WTF are you going on about now? There are many more choices than two. Make some sense.
That "dispassion" is implicit consent. Where's the other choice?
When you sit on toilet to shit you either shit or you don't shit. You want a 3rd choice for that?
Valve is the store front that sells these games. They're the ones responsible for anything they allow to be sold in their store. If they allow a broken game or outright scam asset flip that is not illegal they can't claim that it's not their fault because it actually is their fucking fault that they allowed that to be sold there even if was just by being lazy and moronically oblivious to it.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Being dispassionate about politics, sexuality, racism, gender, violence, identity, and so on is the best policy imo. And that's what valve is doing imo.
That "dispassion" is implicit consent. Don't take Jim Sterling's word for it, take Plato's. That's the dictionary definition of cop out.
Why are we always presented with only two choices? Think about it. Strange, no?
WTF are you going on about now? There are many more choices than two. Make some sense.
That "dispassion" is implicit consent. Where's the other choice?
When you sit on toilet to shit you either shit or you don't shit. You want a 3rd choice for that?
Valve is the store front that sells these games. They're the ones responsible for anything they allow to be sold in their store. If they allow a broken game or outright scam asset flip that is not illegal they can't claim that it's not their fault because it actually is their fucking fault that they allowed that to be sold there even if was just by being lazy and moronically oblivious to it.
The argument that hate speech should be protected merely out of some idea of purity of right is one that should be given deeper thought. There's a rational argument to be had that even merely allowing such dangerous, radical ideas to fester results in bad endings:
"Although arguably different from religious cults, some individuals hold what appear to be odd or idiosyncratic beliefs such as conspiracy theories involving the perceived source of assassinations of leaders, extraterrestrial life, UFOs, etc. In some instances, individuals relish, amplify, and defend these beliefs to the point of harm towards themselves and others. Examples include the moon-landing hoax and vaccine-induced autism conspiracy theories [27]. American astronauts have been stalked by individuals claiming that the moon landing was faked by NASA. Astronaut Buzz Aldrin physically defended himself from a moon-hoax believer that was stalking him and attempting to force him to “swear on the Bible” that he walked on the moon [28]. Parental concerns about perceived vaccine safety issues, such as a purported association between vaccines and autism, though not supported by a credible body of scientific evidence, led increasing numbers of parents to refuse or delay vaccination for their children. Outbreaks of measles have sporadically been reported to be, in part, due to this disinformation. The most frequent reason for non-vaccination stated by 69% of the parents in one study, was concern that the vaccine might cause harm [29,30,31]. Overvalued ideas, many of which are transmitted online, are at the source of these types of socially transmitted behaviors and the consequences of these beliefs can be destructive and life threatening."
EDIT- added first two sentences of quoted paragraph to provide better context for the entire passage.
You can't get much more obvious than the vaccine conspiracies. There's no credible evidence to suggest it is true. But that didn't stop folks from saying it is true, and saying it is true was enough to spur action from certain believers. Likewise, things like Neo-Nazi groups asserting that white folks are genetically superior, or that there's a minority or ethnic group threatening their welfare, creates a situation in which radicalized individuals feel the need to not only espouse that belief, but act on it. The internet allows folks to find other like-minded individuals at a breakneck pace, which only accelerates the radicalization and belief in irrational ideas by otherwise rational humans.
"There's a rational argument to be had that even merely allowing such dangerous, radical ideas to fester results in bad endings" Yeah, like I said, thought control.
When and where did they act on it? Show me something.
Sorry bud, if you thought that all ideas are created equal. They aren't.
As for your last bit, what the fuck are you even asking there? Show you what, exactly?
"Neo-Nazi groups asserting that white folks are genetically superior, or that there's a minority or ethnic group threatening their welfare, creates a situation in which radicalized individuals feel the need to not only espouse that belief, but act on it."
When and where is this happening? Show me something more than guys waving stupid flags and drinking beer in the park.
Are you really that fucking dense dude? The Charleston Church Shooting was motivated by white supremacy. The perp was trying to ignite a race war.
Or how about the white supremacist sympathizer that drove into a crowd in Charlottesville?
Or maybe the guy that drove from Baltimore to New York with the explicit interest of killing black men last year, who was charged with terrorism by NY authorities?
In fact, since 9/11, domestic terrorist such as these have been deadlier to Americans than Jihadist terrorism. But yea, you keep living your delusion.
Make sure you put on your tinfoil hat to avoid the thought control!
Being dispassionate about politics, sexuality, racism, gender, violence, identity, and so on is the best policy imo. And that's what valve is doing imo.
I am betting we will start seeing games made to spite say liberals, or conservatives, or to have a go at certain races or religions that would be allowed by their policy and would have exposure.
It will transform the Steam community into what is today one comment section on Youtube, or maybe even below that.
Being dispassionate about politics, sexuality, racism, gender, violence, identity, and so on is the best policy imo. And that's what valve is doing imo.
That "dispassion" is implicit consent. Don't take Jim Sterling's word for it, take Plato's. That's the dictionary definition of cop out.
Why are we always presented with only two choices? Think about it. Strange, no?
WTF are you going on about now? There are many more choices than two. Make some sense.
That "dispassion" is implicit consent. Where's the other choice?
Dispassion is the wrong word here. The article showed that there is a lot of passion about this topic within Valve's employees. But their official stance will be not choosing a side and instead let users filter their Steam store. Which makes practical sense, because their customers are all different. So give them the tools to hide what they don't want to see. Valve is not your moral police.
This does not mean that they will condone scams or illegal content.
While I think the onus is indeed on the person and not the company to determine which games to purchase, I do think that the company should indeed react to certain blatant and egregious titles like the school shooter sim.
It would also be nice to have actual working and decent family and parental controls in steam. Having a level of granularity in control over kids' accounts, especially for a tech/gaming company as ubiquitous and influential as Valve with Steam is a must these days. It just feels lazy that they refuse to implement such a thing.
I oppose censorship under most circumstances but I don't think that provides a platform for valve to abdicate their responsibilities in terms of quality control. Two hour grace period is hopelessly inadequate as major bugs and unfinished product may not be apparent within such a short window.
I oppose censorship under most circumstances but I don't think that provides a platform for valve to abdicate their responsibilities in terms of quality control. Two hour grace period is hopelessly inadequate as major bugs and unfinished product may not be apparent within such a short window.
then stop playing early access and launch day games?
I think this is great! Steam is a marketplace not your mommy & daddy. You choose what you want to support and what you don't. How anyone can look at this as a negative is beyond me.
Agreed , I was thrilled to read Steam's decision on this, shocked to be honest. Seems like there is a fringe group of loons in this country who want things to be controlled like something out of a George Orwell novel. Yeah i know its just video games and my response might sound a bit dramatic but we all know what the real discussion is here.
I think this is great! Steam is a marketplace not your mommy & daddy. You choose what you want to support and what you don't. How anyone can look at this as a negative is beyond me.
Agreed , I was thrilled to read Steam's decision on this, shocked to be honest. Seems like there is a fringe group of loons in this country who want things to be controlled like something out of a George Orwell novel. Yeah i know its just video games and my response might sound a bit dramatic but we all know what the real discussion is here.
No, there is no fringe group trying to control people via Steam.
Boiling an issue down to a false dichotomy does nothing positive for the discussion from any perspective.
Being dispassionate about politics, sexuality, racism, gender, violence, identity, and so on is the best policy imo. And that's what valve is doing imo.
That "dispassion" is implicit consent. Don't take Jim Sterling's word for it, take Plato's. That's the dictionary definition of cop out.
Why are we always presented with only two choices? Think about it. Strange, no?
WTF are you going on about now? There are many more choices than two. Make some sense.
That "dispassion" is implicit consent. Where's the other choice?
When you sit on toilet to shit you either shit or you don't shit. You want a 3rd choice for that?
Valve is the store front that sells these games. They're the ones responsible for anything they allow to be sold in their store. If they allow a broken game or outright scam asset flip that is not illegal they can't claim that it's not their fault because it actually is their fucking fault that they allowed that to be sold there even if was just by being lazy and moronically oblivious to it.
Fine, don't answer.
He did answer, just because YOU don't like the answer does not mean it is not an answer. Valve is and should be held responsible for what is sold or traded on their site. They are trying to dodge that responsibility, and it is wrong. End of discussion.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
He did answer, just because YOU don't like the answer does not mean it is not an answer. Valve is and should be held responsible for what is sold or traded on their site. They are trying to dodge that responsibility, and it is wrong. End of discussion.
End of discussion? Get over yourself. lol He didn't answer my question about a quote he posted. Which has nothing to do with your response at all.
Yes. Additionally, censoring what others can and cannot hear or see so that they don't, what you deem, "get the wrong idea", is still thought control.
You have not proven that they have incited violence. Otherwise, true. Free market.
You have not proven that they have incited violence. Otherwise, 1. Free market.
>Plus, "actual" crimes are discriminatory practices too. You don't think that online communities that talk about hurting others is illegal? "Oh but its on the internet" isn't an excuse anymore. More people are being prosecuted for what they say online. You could find plenty of cases for people threatening others online, bullying people online, inciting violence against them or inciting them to commit violence against themselves where they were absolutely prosecuted, lost their jobs, or lost more than that.
Depends on which country. Are all of these cyberbullies, NAZIs or just random dickheads? Did they break an actual law? If so, burn'em.
>Cry for them if you want, the poor people that aimed to hurt others and were punished themselves, but it falls on deaf ears. Freedom of speech does not equal freedom of consequences. I can't say that enough because you don't seem to understand
If I'm within the law and my rights, then I have nothing to worry about and neither should anybody else. If other people are in a shitty position in life that their Facebook comments, or video games can get them fired, etc. That's their choice that they made. I'm in a different situation. Nobody has that kind of power over me.
>That in mind, I think I've said all I can say on the topic. You can keep trying to pin me as a "bad guy" but I haven't tried to "control anyones thinking" all I've done is stated my point of view, that regardless of HOW THEY THINK, pain and violence that they wish to inflict should be mitigated, not given a platform.
You keep bringing up violence. Yet, there is none.
>YOU want to change how I think, in that you want me to be okay with harm being done either real or virtual, and that there should be no consequences. That is completely misguided, and in fact is against what you say you really want. But you choose not to see it that way.
LOL, no. YOU keep bring up this boogeyman that is committing violence on others. I don't see NAZIs when I check the evening news. But do you know who I DO see?
Take a guess. Go ahead. Pick a city pick any night you want. Tell me, who is on the TV arrested for murder, rape, assault, home invasion, etc etc. You know, actual violence. Actual crimes. Not words on the internet. You have nothing to prove what you fear would come true. Just like Valve, you can't prove a damn thing. I can.
Also, communists killed over 100 million people last century. Do you speak out against all forms of Marxism to make sure they never gain power again?
I posted links in an earlier response, I would recommend you do some research before you make blanket statements of "I haven't seen it" just because the news doesn't pop up on a particular news website you frequent doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
I have no problem with keeping games that don't work or something like that off the platform. However, the active shooter game should be allowed on there. I don't think anyone would've bought it, but now that it's received so much attention, people are going to be curious. Censorship only breeds demand, since it limits supply. The more you can't have something, the more you want it.
I've never understood the arguement behind violent games make people violent. If that's the case, I should be a serial killer with a billion people killed. I grew up since I was 6 playing games like DOOM, Wolfenstein, Mortal Kombat, etc. and I'm a very passive person. If a game, show, movie "makes" you do something, that something was already there in your psyche. You just have a scapegoat to blame now.
I think this is great! Steam is a marketplace not your mommy & daddy. You choose what you want to support and what you don't. How anyone can look at this as a negative is beyond me.
Obviously, it is beyond you.
It is pretty simple really, this means anyone can create a cash grab, or any other piece of junk grab your money and run with no repercussions.
As far as Valve "not being mommy or daddy" you are correct, they are not nor have they ever been a security blanket, however, that point is far from being pertinent in this conversation. The real point is as @Cheyane pointed out this is a cash grab/CYA situation instead of doing the right thing.
Definitely not a good turn of events, however, I do hope all the other game hosting sites do take advantage. Steam/Valve has been around too long as it is, and it is definitely time for a new sheriff. I have, for a long time now, been disenchanted with Valve over various policies and changes hopefully this is the beginning of the end for them or at least the opportunity for another service to rise in their place.
I don't care if anyone makes a cash grab if someone wants to pay for it who gives a flying fuck? If you don't like it don't buy it, it is simple as that. I don't understand the mentality of if I don't like it, it can't exist!
I'm sorry you feel like you need to be shepard in life. Now be a good little sheep and join the herd.
Oh wow...you assume So much here I am not sure I should even entertain this conversation.
Ok.
1. I have never fallen victim to a scam, nor do I buy anything I do not like. I am speaking of the total lack of accountability that is being built into this system. Get it? I am not speaking to my own experiences here, I am speaking to the moral issue of allowing this type of behavior to take place.
Also, your very weak point about cash grabs, you obviously still have no clue what this conversation is about. You try (laughably) to insult me with your sheep comment, yet with every sentence, you prove how ignorant you are about the topic.
Stop taking things personally and projecting your weakness on me. There are plenty of things in this world I do not like yet I leave it be as other people do enjoy them.
As a side note, Hashbrick, talk about being a sheep. Is it still edgy where you live to talk about drugs? Lol my state has legalized recreational cannabis, you are about as edgy as a mop handle. Lol join the herd, why so I can be near you? No, thanks.
How don't I know what the conversation is about when I am actively detailing exactly what the post is about? Does not compute.
Why did you bring drugs into the conversation? Cause you relate Hash with drugs? Is your world that small? There is other hash out there and hey you know maybe it's a nickname designed far outside your brain capacity. Don't talk about insults and taking things personally and then try to deliver them back. I was calling you a sheep because you wish to be lead around, it is not an insult it is an absolute fact. I'm not part of the herd I believe in freedom of choice. You wish to stifle that.
[[ DEAD ]] - Funny - I deleted my account on the site using the cancel account button. Forum user is separate and still exists with no way of deleting it. Delete it admins. Do it, this ends now.
I think this is great! Steam is a marketplace not your mommy & daddy. You choose what you want to support and what you don't. How anyone can look at this as a negative is beyond me.
Obviously, it is beyond you.
It is pretty simple really, this means anyone can create a cash grab, or any other piece of junk grab your money and run with no repercussions.
As far as Valve "not being mommy or daddy" you are correct, they are not nor have they ever been a security blanket, however, that point is far from being pertinent in this conversation. The real point is as @Cheyane pointed out this is a cash grab/CYA situation instead of doing the right thing.
Definitely not a good turn of events, however, I do hope all the other game hosting sites do take advantage. Steam/Valve has been around too long as it is, and it is definitely time for a new sheriff. I have, for a long time now, been disenchanted with Valve over various policies and changes hopefully this is the beginning of the end for them or at least the opportunity for another service to rise in their place.
I don't care if anyone makes a cash grab if someone wants to pay for it who gives a flying fuck? If you don't like it don't buy it, it is simple as that. I don't understand the mentality of if I don't like it, it can't exist!
I'm sorry you feel like you need to be shepard in life. Now be a good little sheep and join the herd.
Oh wow...you assume So much here I am not sure I should even entertain this conversation.
Ok.
1. I have never fallen victim to a scam, nor do I buy anything I do not like. I am speaking of the total lack of accountability that is being built into this system. Get it? I am not speaking to my own experiences here, I am speaking to the moral issue of allowing this type of behavior to take place.
Also, your very weak point about cash grabs, you obviously still have no clue what this conversation is about. You try (laughably) to insult me with your sheep comment, yet with every sentence, you prove how ignorant you are about the topic.
Stop taking things personally and projecting your weakness on me. There are plenty of things in this world I do not like yet I leave it be as other people do enjoy them.
As a side note, Hashbrick, talk about being a sheep. Is it still edgy where you live to talk about drugs? Lol my state has legalized recreational cannabis, you are about as edgy as a mop handle. Lol join the herd, why so I can be near you? No, thanks.
How don't I know what the conversation is about when I am actively detailing exactly what the post is about? Does not compute.
Why did you bring drugs into the conversation? Cause you relate Hash with drugs? Is your world that small? There is other hash out there and hey you know maybe it's a nickname designed far outside your brain capacity. Don't talk about insults and taking things personally and then try to deliver them back. I was calling you a sheep because you wish to be lead around, it is not an insult it is an absolute fact. I'm not part of the herd I believe in freedom of choice. You wish to stifle that.
Once again, you assume much. You are the herd dweller. You hide behind laws and exist only because of said laws. I doubt very much you have ever had an original thought.
I am no sheep, you can try to make the assertion as much as you want, you will never be correct.
Anyone with half a brain knows what a hash brick is, you being a coward about it once it was pointed out, it is no surprise to me, typical sheep behavior, "oh it means something else" excuse. Seriously, grow up and find a spine.
Society, luckily for you and people like you, is built on laws, and in order for that to maintain there has got to be accountability, Valve stating they are not going to remain accountable for what is on their site is counter to that. It's a coward move.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
Are you really that fucking dense dude? The Charleston Church Shooting was motivated by white supremacy. The perp was trying to ignite a race war.
Or how about the white supremacist sympathizer that drove into a crowd in Charlottesville?
Or maybe the guy that drove from Baltimore to New York with the explicit interest of killing black men last year, who was charged with terrorism by NY authorities?
In fact, since 9/11, domestic terrorist such as these have been deadlier to Americans than Jihadist terrorism. But yea, you keep living your delusion.
Make sure you put on your tinfoil hat to avoid the thought control!
Aside from that church shooter, have the other two been convicted yet or only just charged (I haven't been following)? More importantly, did video games motivate them? Isn't that your concern here? That we're all going to see something socially unacceptable, allowed by Valve Policy and lose our collective minds and say or do bad things in mass?
I thought this (your concern about NAZIs inciting violence due to Valve Policy) was a daily occurrence like your average day in Chicago or something. It's not. Hey maybe you should look into inner city violence and see if video games are the cause of that.
As for your 9/11 statistic, I don't know what groups qualify as "domestic terrorist", Dr. Ben Carson is on a watchlist. That guy who slept through debates. What video game does he play to get put on that?
Tin foil hat? You're grasping for anything here. Isn't incited, meaning inspiring an idea or action? Isn't selectively choosing what other people can say, see, and hear, control? I'll talk about anything you want but don't start wasting my time by playing dumb.
To sum up, you want to fight racism with racism and thought control.
To paraphrase, your side of the argument is stating that if given the chance (freedom), White people are going to say mean things or commit and or incite acts of violence against non-Whites. That Whites are incapable of controlling themselves if left alone, therefore need to be policed at all times (you're sounding like a hateful, racist here). All the while, pointing to three unrelated cases over the course of an extended amount of time, to justify your claims.
That this (stated above) is or could be due to Valve Policy. It might happen, so lets treat everyone as if it did, is your position. That you know what motivates people to be assholes and that is video games.
In the past, this very community was vocally against scapegoating video games as the cause of violence by politicians.
1. My belief may be outdated on this site now apparently, but I am still against scapegoating video games as the cause of violence, where violence towards others existed long before and long after video games.
2. I'm against people who try to control other people's feelings, speech, or beliefs. The fact here is that groups of people will dislike or hate other groups different than their own. Again, this has been going on long before video games and long after.
3. I've seen these people that you're so concerned about (Missing teeth, meth-addicts, guts pouring out of their T-shirts, lazy, poor, etc etc). I fail to see how they represent me as a White person or inspire anybody other than the people that fit that description. You're giving them too much credit. Way too much. I would even say, you're giving them power.
4. Violent crime statistics by race show that the opposite groups are disproportionately committing acts of violence and not the group that you claim that Value is potentially providing a platform for.
5. I support a free market. Every business has the right to do anything it wants within the law, without your consent or approval. Further, that includes failing due to poor policy. We as consumers have a right to vote with our wallets, as we do not live under communist rule.
Are you really that fucking dense dude? The Charleston Church Shooting was motivated by white supremacy. The perp was trying to ignite a race war.
Or how about the white supremacist sympathizer that drove into a crowd in Charlottesville?
Or maybe the guy that drove from Baltimore to New York with the explicit interest of killing black men last year, who was charged with terrorism by NY authorities?
In fact, since 9/11, domestic terrorist such as these have been deadlier to Americans than Jihadist terrorism. But yea, you keep living your delusion.
Make sure you put on your tinfoil hat to avoid the thought control!
Aside from that church shooter, have the other two been convicted yet or only just charged (I haven't been following)? More importantly, did video games motivate them? Isn't that your concern here? That we're all going to see something socially unacceptable, allowed by Valve Policy and lose our collective minds and say or do bad things in mass?
I thought this (your concern about NAZIs inciting violence due to Valve Policy) was a daily occurrence like your average day in Chicago or something. It's not. Hey maybe you should look into inner city violence and see if video games are the cause of that.
As for your 9/11 statistic, I don't know what groups qualify as "domestic terrorist", Dr. Ben Carson is on a watchlist. That guy who slept through debates. What video game does he play to get put on that?
Tin foil hat? You're grasping for anything here. Isn't incited, meaning inspiring an idea or action? Isn't selectively choosing what other people can say, see, and hear, control? I'll talk about anything you want but don't start wasting my time by playing dumb.
To sum up, you want to fight racism with racism and thought control.
To paraphrase, your side of the argument is stating that if given the chance (freedom), White people are going to say mean things or commit and or incite acts of violence against non-Whites. That Whites are incapable of controlling themselves if left alone, therefore need to be policed at all times (you're sounding like a hateful, racist here). All the while, pointing to three unrelated cases over the course of an extended amount of time, to justify your claims.
That this (stated above) is or could be due to Valve Policy. It might happen, so lets treat everyone as if it did, is your position. That you know what motivates people to be assholes and that is video games.
In the past, this very community was vocally against scapegoating video games as the cause of violence by politicians.
1. My belief may be outdated on this site now apparently, but I am still against scapegoating video games as the cause of violence, where violence towards others existed long before and long after video games.
2. I'm against people who try to control other people's feelings, speech, or beliefs. The fact here is that groups of people will dislike or hate other groups different than their own. Again, this has been going on long before video games and long after.
3. I've seen these people that you're so concerned about (Missing teeth, meth-addicts, guts pouring out of their T-shirts, lazy, poor, etc etc). I fail to see how they represent me as a White person or inspire anybody other than the people that fit that description. You're giving them too much credit. Way too much. I would even say, you're giving them power.
4. Violent crime statistics by race show that the opposite groups are disproportionately committing acts of violence and not the group that you claim that Value is potentially providing a platform for.
5. I support a free market. Every business has the right to do anything it wants within the law, without your consent or approval. Further, that includes failing due to poor policy. We as consumers have a right to vote with our wallets, as we do not live under communist rule.
No, you got my argument completely wrong. Not surprising; you're merely trying to frame my argument as something easier to counter.
The example given, complete with scholarly reaearch included, shows that there are definitely consequences for normalizing extreme overvalued beliefs. Where those beliefs are espoused makes little difference. The fact remains that allowing hate speech to go unchecked creates radicalized individuals who act upon those beliefs to the detriment of society. I gave you multiple examples of that, as did the research article. Now you try and pigeon hole my point into Nazism on Steam, when it was clear in the post you quoted I never even mentioned Steam, only the general accessibility the internet provided for extremist individual to find, affirm, and embolden one another to act.
It flies completely in the face of ignorantly hiding behind freedom of speech in an attempt to make an excuse for why hate speech should be allowed to foster and swell to acts of hatred. You've yet to make any good arguments to counter that point. You then try to distance yourself from a specific group within your race that is just as terrible as any other fringe group from any other race or ethnicity, and in the very next paragraph decide to stereotype an entire race. Cognitive dissonance intensifies. I'm done wasting time with someone who so ignorantly contradicts their own arguments. You did the same with weasel earlier in the thread.
EDIT- And if you're that into a totally free market as the apex of trade, I've got a bridge you can buy. It has a sweet view of San Francisco.
Do you think educational institutions are indoctrination camps?
I mean, I encountered all sorts of opinions I didn't agree with in high school especially but thankfully I had learned critical thinking and when I got to college and beyond I picked up some useful skills like calculus and how to read a balance sheet. It also sparked a lifelong passion (thus far) for geophysical science which I never knew I had.
I don't need to live in a bubble. I'm not afraid to examine and reject ridiculous ideas and repulsive opinions. They can't harm me in nearly the same way as my own complacency has the potential to.
The only people scared of having their members subjected to outside thought or different, challenging ideas are cultists. Cultists are also told to hate outside ideas for them being "evil," because it helps members reject non-cult approved ideas because their hate of it is good because they possess the righteous truth. Cultists are indoctrinated - that is what makes cults different from normal people and free-thinkers and fair minded people who value freedom and diversity of speech, thought, and ideology. It is documented fact that colleges (students and administrators) engage in shutting down of free speech by shouting down or engaging in violence against non-cult speakers or presenters. Hateful, small minded, cult activity in the guise of "tolerance" and "goodness."
Is this all college kids? No. Certainly not. I doubt it is anywhere close to a majority. But it is common, accepted and expected and that, in itself, is very scary. The place and people that should be the most open-minded and open to free thinking and debate shouldn't be taught to be close minded sycophants.
The free-market place of ideas only works when ideas can be freely presented and debated. Stalin said something along the lines of "Ideas are more powerful than guns. We don't let the people have guns; why should we allow them to have ideas?"
No, you got my argument completely wrong. Not surprising; you're merely trying to frame my argument as something easier to counter.
The example given, complete with scholarly reaearch included
I stopped reading right there.
I already know whatever you cite next is politically slanted all the while ignoring key points in my argument, that violent crime statistics by race, does not support your claim. Your boogeyman just isn't there.
I stated my opinion. I will continue to stand by it.
Comments
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Valve is the store front that sells these games. They're the ones responsible for anything they allow to be sold in their store. If they allow a broken game or outright scam asset flip that is not illegal they can't claim that it's not their fault because it actually is their fucking fault that they allowed that to be sold there even if was just by being lazy and moronically oblivious to it.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Or how about the white supremacist sympathizer that drove into a crowd in Charlottesville?
Or maybe the guy that drove from Baltimore to New York with the explicit interest of killing black men last year, who was charged with terrorism by NY authorities?
In fact, since 9/11, domestic terrorist such as these have been deadlier to Americans than Jihadist terrorism. But yea, you keep living your delusion.
Make sure you put on your tinfoil hat to avoid the thought control!
It will transform the Steam community into what is today one comment section on Youtube, or maybe even below that.
It would also be nice to have actual working and decent family and parental controls in steam. Having a level of granularity in control over kids' accounts, especially for a tech/gaming company as ubiquitous and influential as Valve with Steam is a must these days. It just feels lazy that they refuse to implement such a thing.
Aloha Mr Hand !
Boiling an issue down to a false dichotomy does nothing positive for the discussion from any perspective.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I've never understood the arguement behind violent games make people violent. If that's the case, I should be a serial killer with a billion people killed. I grew up since I was 6 playing games like DOOM, Wolfenstein, Mortal Kombat, etc. and I'm a very passive person. If a game, show, movie "makes" you do something, that something was already there in your psyche. You just have a scapegoat to blame now.
Why did you bring drugs into the conversation? Cause you relate Hash with drugs? Is your world that small? There is other hash out there and hey you know maybe it's a nickname designed far outside your brain capacity. Don't talk about insults and taking things personally and then try to deliver them back. I was calling you a sheep because you wish to be lead around, it is not an insult it is an absolute fact. I'm not part of the herd I believe in freedom of choice. You wish to stifle that.
I am no sheep, you can try to make the assertion as much as you want, you will never be correct.
Anyone with half a brain knows what a hash brick is, you being a coward about it once it was pointed out, it is no surprise to me, typical sheep behavior, "oh it means something else" excuse. Seriously, grow up and find a spine.
Society, luckily for you and people like you, is built on laws, and in order for that to maintain there has got to be accountability, Valve stating they are not going to remain accountable for what is on their site is counter to that. It's a coward move.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
I thought this (your concern about NAZIs inciting violence due to Valve Policy) was a daily occurrence like your average day in Chicago or something. It's not. Hey maybe you should look into inner city violence and see if video games are the cause of that.
As for your 9/11 statistic, I don't know what groups qualify as "domestic terrorist", Dr. Ben Carson is on a watchlist. That guy who slept through debates. What video game does he play to get put on that?
Tin foil hat? You're grasping for anything here. Isn't incited, meaning inspiring an idea or action? Isn't selectively choosing what other people can say, see, and hear, control? I'll talk about anything you want but don't start wasting my time by playing dumb.
To sum up, you want to fight racism with racism and thought control.
To paraphrase, your side of the argument is stating that if given the chance (freedom), White people are going to say mean things or commit and or incite acts of violence against non-Whites. That Whites are incapable of controlling themselves if left alone, therefore need to be policed at all times (you're sounding like a hateful, racist here). All the while, pointing to three unrelated cases over the course of an extended amount of time, to justify your claims.
That this (stated above) is or could be due to Valve Policy. It might happen, so lets treat everyone as if it did, is your position. That you know what motivates people to be assholes and that is video games.
In the past, this very community was vocally against scapegoating video games as the cause of violence by politicians.
1. My belief may be outdated on this site now apparently, but I am still against scapegoating video games as the cause of violence, where violence towards others existed long before and long after video games.
2. I'm against people who try to control other people's feelings, speech, or beliefs. The fact here is that groups of people will dislike or hate other groups different than their own. Again, this has been going on long before video games and long after.
3. I've seen these people that you're so concerned about (Missing teeth, meth-addicts, guts pouring out of their T-shirts, lazy, poor, etc etc). I fail to see how they represent me as a White person or inspire anybody other than the people that fit that description. You're giving them too much credit. Way too much. I would even say, you're giving them power.
4. Violent crime statistics by race show that the opposite groups are disproportionately committing acts of violence and not the group that you claim that Value is potentially providing a platform for.
5. I support a free market. Every business has the right to do anything it wants within the law, without your consent or approval. Further, that includes failing due to poor policy. We as consumers have a right to vote with our wallets, as we do not live under communist rule.
The example given, complete with scholarly reaearch included, shows that there are definitely consequences for normalizing extreme overvalued beliefs. Where those beliefs are espoused makes little difference. The fact remains that allowing hate speech to go unchecked creates radicalized individuals who act upon those beliefs to the detriment of society. I gave you multiple examples of that, as did the research article. Now you try and pigeon hole my point into Nazism on Steam, when it was clear in the post you quoted I never even mentioned Steam, only the general accessibility the internet provided for extremist individual to find, affirm, and embolden one another to act.
It flies completely in the face of ignorantly hiding behind freedom of speech in an attempt to make an excuse for why hate speech should be allowed to foster and swell to acts of hatred. You've yet to make any good arguments to counter that point. You then try to distance yourself from a specific group within your race that is just as terrible as any other fringe group from any other race or ethnicity, and in the very next paragraph decide to stereotype an entire race. Cognitive dissonance intensifies. I'm done wasting time with someone who so ignorantly contradicts their own arguments. You did the same with weasel earlier in the thread.
EDIT- And if you're that into a totally free market as the apex of trade, I've got a bridge you can buy. It has a sweet view of San Francisco.
- Coming from a person who has never had alcohol, never tried a cigarette, never tried a drug before.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
We will allow ANY game but rely on complaints to remove illegal games because we are too lazy and don't really give a crap.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Is this all college kids? No. Certainly not. I doubt it is anywhere close to a majority. But it is common, accepted and expected and that, in itself, is very scary. The place and people that should be the most open-minded and open to free thinking and debate shouldn't be taught to be close minded sycophants.
The free-market place of ideas only works when ideas can be freely presented and debated. Stalin said something along the lines of "Ideas are more powerful than guns. We don't let the people have guns; why should we allow them to have ideas?"
I already know whatever you cite next is politically slanted all the while ignoring key points in my argument, that violent crime statistics by race, does not support your claim. Your boogeyman just isn't there.
I stated my opinion. I will continue to stand by it.
Valve made their decision without you.
Have more faith in people and the free market.