No, but some seem to think so. Gotta be first people?
What's even stranger is most of those folks concerned about this have almost no shot at being "first," even if given a month's head start over the power gamers.
Most are worrying over being denied from the possibility of being first, even though the probability is so low they would be better served worrying about being struck by lightning.
Indoors, in the Sahara desert, during a snowstorm. Still more likely.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
What's even stranger is most of those folks concerned about this have almost no shot at being "first," even if given a month's head start over the power gamers.
I expect to be competitive at these firsts:
first Ranger to 100 deaths;
first ranger to take a harm touch for the team;
first player to reroll due to character lost in the woods;
first player to drown in a town fountain; and
first player to have no gear that matches.
Hold my beer mate while I set every record.
Post edited by Amathe on
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I assume then you wouldn't trust anyone who donates money for other entertainment purposes, say such as a local orchestra or art museum?
Or those folks who donate on crowd funding to promising authors, musicians or whatever.
Not saying I've done any of those, but I don't judge the streamer donation any differently.
I also try to tone down the hyperbole in my comparisons, there is no world where smoking crack by you or others is the preferred choice.
Well, unless they announce the earth will be hit by a giant asteroid later this year, wiping out all life, maybe in that scenario...maybe.
This is an extremely false equivalency. Donating money to someone how creates something does not equate to donating money to someone playing a video game other people created.
It is equivalent to donating money to someone taping themselves watching a movie.
Or donating money to someone taping themselves looking at art at a museum or listening to an orchestra.
How exactly would crowdfunding of a person who tapes themselves playing a game work? Stretch goal 2 - I tape myself going to the bathroom?
Games are made to be played. Games that someone owns and could play are not being played in lieu of watching someone else play it. These games are not difficult. Anyone can play them.
Unless it is a competition between the best players, which, again, is not 99.9% of what people watch. Keeping with the sports analogy - it is literally tantamount to watch some idiot play catch with himself in his backyard.
And no, I would not donate money to watch someone play catch with themselves, or record themselves watching a movie, reading a book, listening to music, nor looking at art.
I would pay money to watch a movie, read a book, listen to music, and look at art. And PLAY a video game myself. I would never trust anyone that paid or donated to watch someone do any of that. It is weird, unseemly, and outright insane.
And my preferring to smoke crack over donating to watch someone play a video game is anything but hyperbole. I could say the same about the ridiculous false equivalencies you made, but I think you were serious in thinking watching a video of someone play a video game is somehow art or entertainment. I strongly disagree.
Again, we can agree to disagree but you refused to do so above. So we can keep discussing it or I could go play a video game and you can go watch a video of someone playing a video game, but I will always take crack over watching videos of someone playing a video game, and I will never trust the cognitive abilities of anyone who donates money to someone they enjoy watching videos of other people playing video games. It is what it is.
I think you are a bit off point. The people playing video games have their pictures up and are interacting with the game they are playing as well as having commentary. Also, twitch TV was started several years back and in 3 years grew so much that it was bought for $900 million.
No one pays $900 million dollars for a site to watch people play games. You are not watching someone play a game. You are watching a streamer interact with a game. The streamers are usually interactive, charismatic, and funny. Believe me, the top streamers aren't there silently playing their video games. They are playing the games religiously on a schedule and interacting with people that chat on TwitchTV.
It is entertainment. People donate to those people for many reasons. Some enjoy them and appreciate their effort and have money to blow. I buy cosmetics in Path of Exile, i'm super cheap in general, but i'll loosen the purse strings with Path of Exile because I appreciate how they make their game. People do the same to streamers. It could be that people realize that some streamers don't have jobs and appreciate that their job is to entertain people while playing someone's favorite game.
For example, if i were to watch the top PoE streamer (HC Mathil I think) and i liked what he did, i may donate to him out of appreciation. But since i'm so goddamn cheap, the likelihood, I do that is remote. Also, I did one Twitch session with Entropia where I put down Amp 13 mines and ran an animal trivia contest. It was fun. If i continued to entertain people then perhaps they'd donate to me.
Cryomatrix
Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
The weirdness comes when you compare it to the closest thing we have established for other forms of entertainment: commentary.
Generally, commentary is paid by the organization that's broadcasting the event. They make that back through advertisements aired during the same period. Streamers, afaik, don't include commercial breaks. If they get paid by Twitch and the publisher for the free advertising that comes with the streamer playing their game, then also take money directly from viewers, that's akin to double or triple-dipping, comparatively. But, I don't visit Twitch, nor have I read up on how exactly streamers make their money, so I'm just speaking hypothetically.
All that aside, even if they are triple-dipping on the revenue streams, they aren't making nearly what, say, Jon Gruden is making as an NFL commentator (at or above $6.5 million a year, currently). So I'm largely ambivalent to the entire thing.
Lets not forget the fact that those superbowl tickets represent a PRODUCT...not a PROMISE!! This IMHO, is the WORST of misrepresentation. There is NO timeline or path shown for this DREAM (as this can no longer be called a game when there is nothing tangible to hold on to). Horrible planning...horrible marketing...and apparently NO appropriate funding, to ensure the future of this "dream"
I assume then you wouldn't trust anyone who donates money for other entertainment purposes, say such as a local orchestra or art museum?
Or those folks who donate on crowd funding to promising authors, musicians or whatever.
Not saying I've done any of those, but I don't judge the streamer donation any differently.
I also try to tone down the hyperbole in my comparisons, there is no world where smoking crack by you or others is the preferred choice.
Well, unless they announce the earth will be hit by a giant asteroid later this year, wiping out all life, maybe in that scenario...maybe.
This is an extremely false equivalency. Donating money to someone how creates something does not equate to donating money to someone playing a video game other people created.
It is equivalent to donating money to someone taping themselves watching a movie.
Or donating money to someone taping themselves looking at art at a museum or listening to an orchestra.
How exactly would crowdfunding of a person who tapes themselves playing a game work? Stretch goal 2 - I tape myself going to the bathroom?
Games are made to be played. Games that someone owns and could play are not being played in lieu of watching someone else play it. These games are not difficult. Anyone can play them.
Unless it is a competition between the best players, which, again, is not 99.9% of what people watch. Keeping with the sports analogy - it is literally tantamount to watch some idiot play catch with himself in his backyard.
And no, I would not donate money to watch someone play catch with themselves, or record themselves watching a movie, reading a book, listening to music, nor looking at art.
I would pay money to watch a movie, read a book, listen to music, and look at art. And PLAY a video game myself. I would never trust anyone that paid or donated to watch someone do any of that. It is weird, unseemly, and outright insane.
And my preferring to smoke crack over donating to watch someone play a video game is anything but hyperbole. I could say the same about the ridiculous false equivalencies you made, but I think you were serious in thinking watching a video of someone play a video game is somehow art or entertainment. I strongly disagree.
Again, we can agree to disagree but you refused to do so above. So we can keep discussing it or I could go play a video game and you can go watch a video of someone playing a video game, but I will always take crack over watching videos of someone playing a video game, and I will never trust the cognitive abilities of anyone who donates money to someone they enjoy watching videos of other people playing video games. It is what it is.
blamo2000, I think you're wrong. I agree with Kyleran. It's EXACTLY the same as paying money to watch football players.
I would pay money to watch a good Twitch player. And I will even bet that soon, the best raid guilds out there will "sell" their strats on the hardest raid mobs. People who can't do it, want to be able to, and to do so they'd probably pay some money for it. So, why not make money selling the way?
I actually enjoy watching other people play video games. They think differently than me, are better than me and if this person was a "pro" I'd probably see stuff I couldn't do. I've played games my whole life, I've also played football, basketball and baseball my whole life, but you'll never see me claiming to be a pro. Just like video games. Some people are better than me and I enjoy watching them.
So assume another player buys all his power and does all the PvE content before you do - this impacts you how exactly?
It's not like dungeons and bosses in Pantheon can only be cleared once - everything respawns, it doesn't make any difference who does it first.
Assume that someone will do it first - assume that there will be players who will play more than you, be in guilds that are stronger than yours and be better geared - is this a problem for you?
What does it matter?
For me the notion that a purely PvE focused game can somehow be "P2W" is just so silly
I know that there will be better more powerful players in Pantheon then me - how they got there is frankly none of my business as it doesn't impact me one bit.
If they bought their accounts, if they paid the devs, or they just played a lot - or whatever - what difference does it make to anyone else?
Because of some imaginary epeen "first" contest?
Oh come on, does that question really need an answer? You know dam well, how it works when you can't keep up with BiS players in PVE.
I actually don't, do they put a lien on your computer or something?
I understand needing raid gear to complete certain content, but I rarely recall ever having a BIS item, like say an orange item back in Vanilla WOW days.
EQ was rampant with content deniers, loot farmers, gold sellers, camp stealers and general asshattery where the power gap played a huge role in PvE griefing. Brad is a believer in competition for resources and content and he's stated recently that he intends to do the same in Pantheon. He did not mention any game mechanics for policing, just the failed Play Nice Policy of the past and the supposed deterrent of black listing for bad behavior. I remember someone on one of these boards in the past labeling it PvEvP. I can't say I'm any more fond of that than I am of regular PvP, but at least there you can try to kill the perp(s) harassing you.
Bear in mind that WoW has instancing not only for content, but for resource gathering too. EQ did not and they don't want it in Pantheon either, which inevitably leads to griefing of the less powerful / hardcore by jerks and those playing to earn money by selling off game loot and jacking the price by locking down the NPC's that drop the good stuff. Brad's vision of risk vs. rewards doesn't allow for random drops, so quest and loot npc's become hot targets.
So assume another player buys all his power and does all the PvE content before you do - this impacts you how exactly?
It's not like dungeons and bosses in Pantheon can only be cleared once - everything respawns, it doesn't make any difference who does it first.
Assume that someone will do it first - assume that there will be players who will play more than you, be in guilds that are stronger than yours and be better geared - is this a problem for you?
What does it matter?
For me the notion that a purely PvE focused game can somehow be "P2W" is just so silly
I know that there will be better more powerful players in Pantheon then me - how they got there is frankly none of my business as it doesn't impact me one bit.
If they bought their accounts, if they paid the devs, or they just played a lot - or whatever - what difference does it make to anyone else?
Because of some imaginary epeen "first" contest?
Oh come on, does that question really need an answer? You know dam well, how it works when you can't keep up with BiS players in PVE.
I actually don't, do they put a lien on your computer or something?
I understand needing raid gear to complete certain content, but I rarely recall ever having a BIS item, like say an orange item back in Vanilla WOW days.
EQ was rampant with content deniers, loot farmers, gold sellers, camp stealers and general asshattery where the power gap played a huge role in PvE griefing. Brad is a believer in competition for resources and content and he's stated recently that he intends to do the same in Pantheon. He did not mention any game mechanics for policing, just the failed Play Nice Policy of the past and the supposed deterrent of black listing for bad behavior. I remember someone on one of these boards in the past labeling it PvEvP. I can't say I'm any more fond of that than I am of regular PvP, but at least there you can try to kill the perp(s) harassing you.
Vanguard raiding, without being instanced, wasn't as contested as EQ1. The APW Wearhouse had multiple wings and fast respawns with long lockout timers, which allowed multiple guilds per server the ability to raid without having to be hardcore.
So they could do similarly in Pantheon, without compromising the vision.
So assume another player buys all his power and does all the PvE content before you do - this impacts you how exactly?
It's not like dungeons and bosses in Pantheon can only be cleared once - everything respawns, it doesn't make any difference who does it first.
Assume that someone will do it first - assume that there will be players who will play more than you, be in guilds that are stronger than yours and be better geared - is this a problem for you?
What does it matter?
For me the notion that a purely PvE focused game can somehow be "P2W" is just so silly
I know that there will be better more powerful players in Pantheon then me - how they got there is frankly none of my business as it doesn't impact me one bit.
If they bought their accounts, if they paid the devs, or they just played a lot - or whatever - what difference does it make to anyone else?
Because of some imaginary epeen "first" contest?
Oh come on, does that question really need an answer? You know dam well, how it works when you can't keep up with BiS players in PVE.
I actually don't, do they put a lien on your computer or something?
I understand needing raid gear to complete certain content, but I rarely recall ever having a BIS item, like say an orange item back in Vanilla WOW days.
EQ was rampant with content deniers, loot farmers, gold sellers, camp stealers and general asshattery where the power gap played a huge role in PvE griefing. Brad is a believer in competition for resources and content and he's stated recently that he intends to do the same in Pantheon. He did not mention any game mechanics for policing, just the failed Play Nice Policy of the past and the supposed deterrent of black listing for bad behavior. I remember someone on one of these boards in the past labeling it PvEvP. I can't say I'm any more fond of that than I am of regular PvP, but at least there you can try to kill the perp(s) harassing you.
Vanguard raiding, without being instanced, wasn't as contested as EQ1. The APW Wearhouse had multiple wings and fast respawns with long lockout timers, which allowed multiple guilds per server the ability to raid without having to be hardcore.
So they could do similarly in Pantheon, without compromising the vision.
Yes, but Brad has stated over and over that this is the spiritual successor of EQ, not Vanguard. Considering design decisions so far, that statement is spot on.
So assume another player buys all his power and does all the PvE content before you do - this impacts you how exactly?
It's not like dungeons and bosses in Pantheon can only be cleared once - everything respawns, it doesn't make any difference who does it first.
Assume that someone will do it first - assume that there will be players who will play more than you, be in guilds that are stronger than yours and be better geared - is this a problem for you?
What does it matter?
For me the notion that a purely PvE focused game can somehow be "P2W" is just so silly
I know that there will be better more powerful players in Pantheon then me - how they got there is frankly none of my business as it doesn't impact me one bit.
If they bought their accounts, if they paid the devs, or they just played a lot - or whatever - what difference does it make to anyone else?
Because of some imaginary epeen "first" contest?
Oh come on, does that question really need an answer? You know dam well, how it works when you can't keep up with BiS players in PVE.
I actually don't, do they put a lien on your computer or something?
I understand needing raid gear to complete certain content, but I rarely recall ever having a BIS item, like say an orange item back in Vanilla WOW days.
EQ was rampant with content deniers, loot farmers, gold sellers, camp stealers and general asshattery where the power gap played a huge role in PvE griefing. Brad is a believer in competition for resources and content and he's stated recently that he intends to do the same in Pantheon. He did not mention any game mechanics for policing, just the failed Play Nice Policy of the past and the supposed deterrent of black listing for bad behavior. I remember someone on one of these boards in the past labeling it PvEvP. I can't say I'm any more fond of that than I am of regular PvP, but at least there you can try to kill the perp(s) harassing you.
Vanguard raiding, without being instanced, wasn't as contested as EQ1. The APW Wearhouse had multiple wings and fast respawns with long lockout timers, which allowed multiple guilds per server the ability to raid without having to be hardcore.
So they could do similarly in Pantheon, without compromising the vision.
Yes, but Brad has stated over and over that this is the spiritual successor of EQ, not Vanguard. Considering design decisions so far, that statement is spot on.
I've recall the Visionary Realms team mention both EQ1 and Vanguard as being influences for Pantheon, not just EQ1.
When you step back and really look; this whole idea of pledging money above and beyond the projected price point just for some trinkets in a game that won't mean anything a year into it is purely asinine.
'A fool and his money are soon parted'
When I play a multiplayer game and I see other players with these items I think, boy was it worth it? nope. Nine times out of ten something similar will come along, or better. All you are left with is a skin that maybe is slightly different then the others and the fact that you can say 'Hey I was here first'.
So assume another player buys all his power and does all the PvE content before you do - this impacts you how exactly?
It's not like dungeons and bosses in Pantheon can only be cleared once - everything respawns, it doesn't make any difference who does it first.
Assume that someone will do it first - assume that there will be players who will play more than you, be in guilds that are stronger than yours and be better geared - is this a problem for you?
What does it matter?
For me the notion that a purely PvE focused game can somehow be "P2W" is just so silly
I know that there will be better more powerful players in Pantheon then me - how they got there is frankly none of my business as it doesn't impact me one bit.
If they bought their accounts, if they paid the devs, or they just played a lot - or whatever - what difference does it make to anyone else?
Because of some imaginary epeen "first" contest?
Oh come on, does that question really need an answer? You know dam well, how it works when you can't keep up with BiS players in PVE.
I actually don't, do they put a lien on your computer or something?
I understand needing raid gear to complete certain content, but I rarely recall ever having a BIS item, like say an orange item back in Vanilla WOW days.
EQ was rampant with content deniers, loot farmers, gold sellers, camp stealers and general asshattery where the power gap played a huge role in PvE griefing. Brad is a believer in competition for resources and content and he's stated recently that he intends to do the same in Pantheon. He did not mention any game mechanics for policing, just the failed Play Nice Policy of the past and the supposed deterrent of black listing for bad behavior. I remember someone on one of these boards in the past labeling it PvEvP. I can't say I'm any more fond of that than I am of regular PvP, but at least there you can try to kill the perp(s) harassing you.
Vanguard raiding, without being instanced, wasn't as contested as EQ1. The APW Wearhouse had multiple wings and fast respawns with long lockout timers, which allowed multiple guilds per server the ability to raid without having to be hardcore.
So they could do similarly in Pantheon, without compromising the vision.
Yes, but Brad has stated over and over that this is the spiritual successor of EQ, not Vanguard. Considering design decisions so far, that statement is spot on.
I've recall the Visionary Realms team mention both EQ1 and Vanguard as being influences for Pantheon, not just EQ1.
I wish that were true in regards to class selection and design. I find the current roster rather dull compared to Vanguard's more unique design.
So assume another player buys all his power and does all the PvE content before you do - this impacts you how exactly?
It's not like dungeons and bosses in Pantheon can only be cleared once - everything respawns, it doesn't make any difference who does it first.
Assume that someone will do it first - assume that there will be players who will play more than you, be in guilds that are stronger than yours and be better geared - is this a problem for you?
What does it matter?
For me the notion that a purely PvE focused game can somehow be "P2W" is just so silly
I know that there will be better more powerful players in Pantheon then me - how they got there is frankly none of my business as it doesn't impact me one bit.
If they bought their accounts, if they paid the devs, or they just played a lot - or whatever - what difference does it make to anyone else?
Because of some imaginary epeen "first" contest?
Oh come on, does that question really need an answer? You know dam well, how it works when you can't keep up with BiS players in PVE.
I actually don't, do they put a lien on your computer or something?
I understand needing raid gear to complete certain content, but I rarely recall ever having a BIS item, like say an orange item back in Vanilla WOW days.
EQ was rampant with content deniers, loot farmers, gold sellers, camp stealers and general asshattery where the power gap played a huge role in PvE griefing. Brad is a believer in competition for resources and content and he's stated recently that he intends to do the same in Pantheon. He did not mention any game mechanics for policing, just the failed Play Nice Policy of the past and the supposed deterrent of black listing for bad behavior. I remember someone on one of these boards in the past labeling it PvEvP. I can't say I'm any more fond of that than I am of regular PvP, but at least there you can try to kill the perp(s) harassing you.
Bear in mind that WoW has instancing not only for content, but for resource gathering too. EQ did not and they don't want it in Pantheon either, which inevitably leads to griefing of the less powerful / hardcore by jerks and those playing to earn money by selling off game loot and jacking the price by locking down the NPC's that drop the good stuff. Brad's vision of risk vs. rewards doesn't allow for random drops, so quest and loot npc's become hot targets.
Not sure if Bards will be the same in this game but they were great at handling this kind of behavior in early EQ .
Well, if the kill goes to the group that did most damage there will be winners and losers. Idk how they are handling it though. Could be based on whoever tags it first, or it could be "everyone is a winner" based.
I guess I'll give it a go then. The only reason I said p2w even though it's PvE is I heard that there might be a PvP server. But if the big pledges are just for e peen stroking then yeah that doesn't bother me. Looking forward to launch. Whenever that is. Thanks for the replies.
I think you are a bit off point. The people playing video games have their pictures up and are interacting with the game they are playing as well as having commentary. Also, twitch TV was started several years back and in 3 years grew so much that it was bought for $900 million.
No one pays $900 million dollars for a site to watch people play games. You are not watching someone play a game. You are watching a streamer interact with a game. The streamers are usually interactive, charismatic, and funny. Believe me, the top streamers aren't there silently playing their video games. They are playing the games religiously on a schedule and interacting with people that chat on TwitchTV.
It is entertainment. People donate to those people for many reasons. Some enjoy them and appreciate their effort and have money to blow. I buy cosmetics in Path of Exile, i'm super cheap in general, but i'll loosen the purse strings with Path of Exile because I appreciate how they make their game. People do the same to streamers. It could be that people realize that some streamers don't have jobs and appreciate that their job is to entertain people while playing someone's favorite game.
For example, if i were to watch the top PoE streamer (HC Mathil I think) and i liked what he did, i may donate to him out of appreciation. But since i'm so goddamn cheap, the likelihood, I do that is remote. Also, I did one Twitch session with Entropia where I put down Amp 13 mines and ran an animal trivia contest. It was fun. If i continued to entertain people then perhaps they'd donate to me.
The weirdness comes when you compare it to the closest thing we have established for other forms of entertainment: commentary.
Generally, commentary is paid by the organization that's broadcasting the event. They make that back through advertisements aired during the same period. Streamers, afaik, don't include commercial breaks. If they get paid by Twitch and the publisher for the free advertising that comes with the streamer playing their game, then also take money directly from viewers, that's akin to double or triple-dipping, comparatively. But, I don't visit Twitch, nor have I read up on how exactly streamers make their money, so I'm just speaking hypothetically.
All that aside, even if they are triple-dipping on the revenue streams, they aren't making nearly what, say, Jon Gruden is making as an NFL commentator (at or above $6.5 million a year, currently). So I'm largely ambivalent to the entire thing.
So, we can say it's like watching someone watch a show and commenting on it while s/he is watching. Like Mystery Science Theater.
I can agree with that. I guess that show was popular. But it isn't for me. I prefer watching the show myself. I still would rather smoke crack than watch a video of someone else play a video game.
Director commentary on a movie may be another good example. I can't watch a movie with people talking though, so I never used that feature either. That and I just don't plain care.
I'll conclude by agreeing that I can't see myself ever watching someone play video games, like you I spend such time playing them instead.
Back on topic, big pledge backers make equally little sense, but people often spend money on things which are incompehensible to me.
Most modern MMORPGs today being one of them.
In this particular case I don't see the big pledge packages influencing the game much, if at all really.
Certainly nothing like the "kingship" and other royalty packages in COE or perhaps even the private islands CU sold $5K backers if I'm remembering correctly.
In the latter example I decided the better approach would be to become good "friends" with someone who bought one.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So assume another player buys all his power and does all the PvE content before you do - this impacts you how exactly?
It's not like dungeons and bosses in Pantheon can only be cleared once - everything respawns, it doesn't make any difference who does it first.
Assume that someone will do it first - assume that there will be players who will play more than you, be in guilds that are stronger than yours and be better geared - is this a problem for you?
What does it matter?
For me the notion that a purely PvE focused game can somehow be "P2W" is just so silly
I know that there will be better more powerful players in Pantheon then me - how they got there is frankly none of my business as it doesn't impact me one bit.
If they bought their accounts, if they paid the devs, or they just played a lot - or whatever - what difference does it make to anyone else?
Because of some imaginary epeen "first" contest?
Oh come on, does that question really need an answer? You know dam well, how it works when you can't keep up with BiS players in PVE.
I actually don't, do they put a lien on your computer or something?
I understand needing raid gear to complete certain content, but I rarely recall ever having a BIS item, like say an orange item back in Vanilla WOW days.
EQ was rampant with content deniers, loot farmers, gold sellers, camp stealers and general asshattery where the power gap played a huge role in PvE griefing. Brad is a believer in competition for resources and content and he's stated recently that he intends to do the same in Pantheon. He did not mention any game mechanics for policing, just the failed Play Nice Policy of the past and the supposed deterrent of black listing for bad behavior. I remember someone on one of these boards in the past labeling it PvEvP. I can't say I'm any more fond of that than I am of regular PvP, but at least there you can try to kill the perp(s) harassing you.
Vanguard raiding, without being instanced, wasn't as contested as EQ1. The APW Wearhouse had multiple wings and fast respawns with long lockout timers, which allowed multiple guilds per server the ability to raid without having to be hardcore.
So they could do similarly in Pantheon, without compromising the vision.
Yes, but Brad has stated over and over that this is the spiritual successor of EQ, not Vanguard. Considering design decisions so far, that statement is spot on.
I've recall the Visionary Realms team mention both EQ1 and Vanguard as being influences for Pantheon, not just EQ1.
Not sure where you heard this - EQ1 is the blueprint, thats what Brad said himself
@DMKano straight from the horses mouth. I knew I hadn't lost my memory completely...
"With this latest project, Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen, there's a lot of EverQuest in it, there's a lot of Vanguard, and there's a lot of new ideas. " - Brad McQuaid
So assume another player buys all his power and does all the PvE content before you do - this impacts you how exactly?
It's not like dungeons and bosses in Pantheon can only be cleared once - everything respawns, it doesn't make any difference who does it first.
Assume that someone will do it first - assume that there will be players who will play more than you, be in guilds that are stronger than yours and be better geared - is this a problem for you?
What does it matter?
For me the notion that a purely PvE focused game can somehow be "P2W" is just so silly
I know that there will be better more powerful players in Pantheon then me - how they got there is frankly none of my business as it doesn't impact me one bit.
If they bought their accounts, if they paid the devs, or they just played a lot - or whatever - what difference does it make to anyone else?
Because of some imaginary epeen "first" contest?
Oh come on, does that question really need an answer? You know dam well, how it works when you can't keep up with BiS players in PVE.
I actually don't, do they put a lien on your computer or something?
I understand needing raid gear to complete certain content, but I rarely recall ever having a BIS item, like say an orange item back in Vanilla WOW days.
EQ was rampant with content deniers, loot farmers, gold sellers, camp stealers and general asshattery where the power gap played a huge role in PvE griefing. Brad is a believer in competition for resources and content and he's stated recently that he intends to do the same in Pantheon. He did not mention any game mechanics for policing, just the failed Play Nice Policy of the past and the supposed deterrent of black listing for bad behavior. I remember someone on one of these boards in the past labeling it PvEvP. I can't say I'm any more fond of that than I am of regular PvP, but at least there you can try to kill the perp(s) harassing you.
Vanguard raiding, without being instanced, wasn't as contested as EQ1. The APW Wearhouse had multiple wings and fast respawns with long lockout timers, which allowed multiple guilds per server the ability to raid without having to be hardcore.
So they could do similarly in Pantheon, without compromising the vision.
Yes, but Brad has stated over and over that this is the spiritual successor of EQ, not Vanguard. Considering design decisions so far, that statement is spot on.
I've recall the Visionary Realms team mention both EQ1 and Vanguard as being influences for Pantheon, not just EQ1.
Not sure where you heard this - EQ1 is the blueprint, thats what Brad said himself
@DMKano straight from the horses mouth. I knew I hadn't lost my memory completely...
"With this latest project, Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen, there's a lot of EverQuest in it, there's a lot of Vanguard, and there's a lot of new ideas. " - Brad McQuaid
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Comments
Most are worrying over being denied from the possibility of being first, even though the probability is so low they would be better served worrying about being struck by lightning.
Indoors, in the Sahara desert, during a snowstorm. Still more likely.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
first Ranger to 100 deaths;
first ranger to take a harm touch for the team;
first player to reroll due to character lost in the woods;
first player to drown in a town fountain; and
first player to have no gear that matches.
Hold my beer mate while I set every record.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
It is equivalent to donating money to someone taping themselves watching a movie.
Or donating money to someone taping themselves looking at art at a museum or listening to an orchestra.
How exactly would crowdfunding of a person who tapes themselves playing a game work? Stretch goal 2 - I tape myself going to the bathroom?
Games are made to be played. Games that someone owns and could play are not being played in lieu of watching someone else play it. These games are not difficult. Anyone can play them.
Unless it is a competition between the best players, which, again, is not 99.9% of what people watch. Keeping with the sports analogy - it is literally tantamount to watch some idiot play catch with himself in his backyard.
And no, I would not donate money to watch someone play catch with themselves, or record themselves watching a movie, reading a book, listening to music, nor looking at art.
I would pay money to watch a movie, read a book, listen to music, and look at art. And PLAY a video game myself. I would never trust anyone that paid or donated to watch someone do any of that. It is weird, unseemly, and outright insane.
And my preferring to smoke crack over donating to watch someone play a video game is anything but hyperbole. I could say the same about the ridiculous false equivalencies you made, but I think you were serious in thinking watching a video of someone play a video game is somehow art or entertainment. I strongly disagree.
Again, we can agree to disagree but you refused to do so above. So we can keep discussing it or I could go play a video game and you can go watch a video of someone playing a video game, but I will always take crack over watching videos of someone playing a video game, and I will never trust the cognitive abilities of anyone who donates money to someone they enjoy watching videos of other people playing video games. It is what it is.
Edit: Not that Pantheon will have these. But it does exist.
I think you are a bit off point. The people playing video games have their pictures up and are interacting with the game they are playing as well as having commentary. Also, twitch TV was started several years back and in 3 years grew so much that it was bought for $900 million.
No one pays $900 million dollars for a site to watch people play games. You are not watching someone play a game. You are watching a streamer interact with a game. The streamers are usually interactive, charismatic, and funny. Believe me, the top streamers aren't there silently playing their video games. They are playing the games religiously on a schedule and interacting with people that chat on TwitchTV.
It is entertainment. People donate to those people for many reasons. Some enjoy them and appreciate their effort and have money to blow. I buy cosmetics in Path of Exile, i'm super cheap in general, but i'll loosen the purse strings with Path of Exile because I appreciate how they make their game. People do the same to streamers. It could be that people realize that some streamers don't have jobs and appreciate that their job is to entertain people while playing someone's favorite game.
For example, if i were to watch the top PoE streamer (HC Mathil I think) and i liked what he did, i may donate to him out of appreciation. But since i'm so goddamn cheap, the likelihood, I do that is remote. Also, I did one Twitch session with Entropia where I put down Amp 13 mines and ran an animal trivia contest. It was fun. If i continued to entertain people then perhaps they'd donate to me.
Cryomatrix
You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations.
Generally, commentary is paid by the organization that's broadcasting the event. They make that back through advertisements aired during the same period. Streamers, afaik, don't include commercial breaks. If they get paid by Twitch and the publisher for the free advertising that comes with the streamer playing their game, then also take money directly from viewers, that's akin to double or triple-dipping, comparatively. But, I don't visit Twitch, nor have I read up on how exactly streamers make their money, so I'm just speaking hypothetically.
All that aside, even if they are triple-dipping on the revenue streams, they aren't making nearly what, say, Jon Gruden is making as an NFL commentator (at or above $6.5 million a year, currently). So I'm largely ambivalent to the entire thing.
I would pay money to watch a good Twitch player. And I will even bet that soon, the best raid guilds out there will "sell" their strats on the hardest raid mobs. People who can't do it, want to be able to, and to do so they'd probably pay some money for it. So, why not make money selling the way?
I actually enjoy watching other people play video games. They think differently than me, are better than me and if this person was a "pro" I'd probably see stuff I couldn't do. I've played games my whole life, I've also played football, basketball and baseball my whole life, but you'll never see me claiming to be a pro. Just like video games. Some people are better than me and I enjoy watching them.
Bear in mind that WoW has instancing not only for content, but for resource gathering too. EQ did not and they don't want it in Pantheon either, which inevitably leads to griefing of the less powerful / hardcore by jerks and those playing to earn money by selling off game loot and jacking the price by locking down the NPC's that drop the good stuff. Brad's vision of risk vs. rewards doesn't allow for random drops, so quest and loot npc's become hot targets.
So they could do similarly in Pantheon, without compromising the vision.
Getting too old for this $&17!
I can agree with that. I guess that show was popular. But it isn't for me. I prefer watching the show myself. I still would rather smoke crack than watch a video of someone else play a video game.
Director commentary on a movie may be another good example. I can't watch a movie with people talking though, so I never used that feature either. That and I just don't plain care.
I'll conclude by agreeing that I can't see myself ever watching someone play video games, like you I spend such time playing them instead.
Back on topic, big pledge backers make equally little sense, but people often spend money on things which are incompehensible to me.
Most modern MMORPGs today being one of them.
In this particular case I don't see the big pledge packages influencing the game much, if at all really.
Certainly nothing like the "kingship" and other royalty packages in COE or perhaps even the private islands CU sold $5K backers if I'm remembering correctly.
In the latter example I decided the better approach would be to become good "friends" with someone who bought one.
Anyone looking for a good fawning sycophant?
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"With this latest project, Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen, there's a lot of EverQuest in it, there's a lot of Vanguard, and there's a lot of new ideas. " - Brad McQuaid
Source: http://m.ign.com/articles/2014/02/13/the-inside-story-of-how-a-major-mmo-went-wrong?page=2
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon