Stop acting like developers receive no positivity for their work. Not only that, but sales and player numbers speak for themselves.
They get some positive feed back.. sure.. but how does that change the truth of what I just said?
They make money.. sure.. but how does that change the truth of what I just said?
Then stop acting like it's one-sided. Jesus dude, bitching from customers isn't unique in the video game industry. ANY industry that has customers deals with that.
Which is exactly why all too often employees don't interact socially with customers..in all those other industries.
Also. get real, gamers overall are far worse then I have seen in any other industry ever.
I mean NO other industry has to deal with the asinine hypocritical nature of what MMO developers deal with, can you imagine if someone went into a huge fit over how a Pizza place changed their mushroom vendor and now their pizza sucks, and yet they still eat there every day.. the pizza place would be dumb stuck how stupid this person was, and yet that is what game companies deal with, every single day.
I mean if someone is unhappy with their demist, they spew some hate and find a new dentist. Same with almost every other industry out there.
Yet MMO's have the special honor of people who spew hate upon them and play their game religiously.
Now you and I both know.. no one else deals with that kind of stuff.. so spare me that they don't have to deal with their special plane of hell because of it.
No, you need to get real. I work in customer service, and you're just wrong. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Other industries just have dedicated support staff to take complaints through things such as chat and phone. Video games don't generally take gameplay feedback that way, only dedicated support for technical issues.
EDIT- there's a reason folks that work on video games will actually interact with their customer bases at all on social media. Tell me the last time you saw a fucking claims adjuster do an AMA?
Really?
Do you really think none of us have done customer service? I'll admit, it does seem like some of us haven't.. but if it helps your little charade. I worked as a Maintenance Supervisor/Security for a Hospitality Company for over a decade, I bet.. I can match and beat any 'story' you have.
Then one might think you would act like it.
I do act like it.. keep everyone who is not my private circle, out of my social life. Because fuck dealing with that "work" shit on my private time.
Because dealing with Clients is Work. As I said her mistake was dealing with the Clients on her personal account.
She should never have made where she worked linked to her twitter account, and if she was going to go something like that, she should have made a secondary account to play that game.
Like anyone that works with the public would have the common sense to do.
Hence why all our forum names are not our real names, and we are mostly smart enough to not give out any personal data.
That is exactly the issue though that lead to her firing. She chose to use her real name, job title and company name. She can't say it's private when she links it to her work and posts it for everyone to see. She could have at the very least turned her Twitter account into a private one so that she could have had the choice to approve new followers. This way only your friends can see your Tweets and nothing can be retweeted either. You can't voluntarily choose the 'public' option and then complain about it not being private.
I've said that from the start, she never should have mixed her personal time with her professional life.In fact, No one that deals with the public should do this.
That was where she went right down the crapper.
It does not matter what her views where, what level of SJW she may have been, her views on sexism, being a woman in the industry, or what have you, all of that is vastly irrelevant, as lets get real, most of us don't care what these people are like on their private time as long as they can make a good game. If they are Tree Hugging Cross Fit Vegans.. I don't need to know this as long as they can make a good game. Which means, what she did that was so wrong, was allow her real self, with her real feelings, to be seen by the customer and general public.
Truth is, most CS people could not survive that, as, after slogging in the trenches, we get fed up. No, we don't want to put on the pretty smile and tell you how great you are, because, really, does anyone really think their Service Provider thinks they are great people?
Now with games, it does seem like they have a special kind of hell, where their clients will spew hate upon them, and not cancel the service. Never quite got that, I mean I see people just dump hate upon the game, and everyone that makes it, and all this, endlessly, for years on end, and still play the game.. for years on end. It's gotten so cliche' that other gamers are sicks of it, hence the rise of a typical response of "if yo don't like it, leave" and "can I have your stuffs"
Also this means, that the other Devs will see this as the cautionary tale that it is, and a good lesson to shut up. Some view themselves as internet personalities, and I hope they have the common sense to have "Public" accounts for these antics, and a private account for keeping in touch with friends/family.
Just saying.. nothing good will come of this.. but you get what you deserve I guess.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
Stop acting like developers receive no positivity for their work. Not only that, but sales and player numbers speak for themselves.
They get some positive feed back.. sure.. but how does that change the truth of what I just said?
They make money.. sure.. but how does that change the truth of what I just said?
Then stop acting like it's one-sided. Jesus dude, bitching from customers isn't unique in the video game industry. ANY industry that has customers deals with that.
Which is exactly why all too often employees don't interact socially with customers..in all those other industries.
Also. get real, gamers overall are far worse then I have seen in any other industry ever.
I mean NO other industry has to deal with the asinine hypocritical nature of what MMO developers deal with, can you imagine if someone went into a huge fit over how a Pizza place changed their mushroom vendor and now their pizza sucks, and yet they still eat there every day.. the pizza place would be dumb stuck how stupid this person was, and yet that is what game companies deal with, every single day.
I mean if someone is unhappy with their demist, they spew some hate and find a new dentist. Same with almost every other industry out there.
Yet MMO's have the special honor of people who spew hate upon them and play their game religiously.
Now you and I both know.. no one else deals with that kind of stuff.. so spare me that they don't have to deal with their special plane of hell because of it.
No, you need to get real. I work in customer service, and you're just wrong. Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Other industries just have dedicated support staff to take complaints through things such as chat and phone. Video games don't generally take gameplay feedback that way, only dedicated support for technical issues.
EDIT- there's a reason folks that work on video games will actually interact with their customer bases at all on social media. Tell me the last time you saw a fucking claims adjuster do an AMA?
Really?
Do you really think none of us have done customer service? I'll admit, it does seem like some of us haven't.. but if it helps your little charade. I worked as a Maintenance Supervisor/Security for a Hospitality Company for over a decade, I bet.. I can match and beat any 'story' you have.
Then one might think you would act like it.
I do act like it.. keep everyone who is not my private circle, out of my social life. Because fuck dealing with that "work" shit on my private time.
Because dealing with Clients is Work. As I said her mistake was dealing with the Clients on her personal account.
She should never have made where she worked linked to her twitter account, and if she was going to go something like that, she should have made a secondary account to play that game.
Like anyone that works with the public would have the common sense to do.
Hence why all our forum names are not our real names, and we are mostly smart enough to not give out any personal data.
That is exactly the issue though that lead to her firing. She chose to use her real name, job title and company name. She can't say it's private when she links it to her work and posts it for everyone to see. She could have at the very least turned her Twitter account into a private one so that she could have had the choice to approve new followers. This way only your friends can see your Tweets and nothing can be retweeted either. You can't voluntarily choose the 'public' option and then complain about it not being private.
I've said that from the start, she never should have mixed her personal time with her professional life.In fact, No one that deals with the public should do this.
That was where she went right down the crapper.
It does not matter what her views where, what level of SJW she may have been, her views on sexism, being a woman in the industry, or what have you, all of that is vastly irrelevant, as lets get real, most of us don't care what these people are like on their private time as long as they can make a good game. If they are Tree Hugging Cross Fit Vegans.. I don't need to know this as long as they can make a good game. Which means, what she did that was so wrong, was allow her real self, with her real feelings, to be seen by the customer and general public.
Truth is, most CS people could not survive that, as, after slogging in the trenches, we get fed up. No, we don't want to put on the pretty smile and tell you how great you are, because, really, does anyone really think their Service Provider thinks they are great people?
Now with games, it does seem like they have a special kind of hell, where their clients will spew hate upon them, and not cancel the service. Never quite got that, I mean I see people just dump hate upon the game, and everyone that makes it, and all this, endlessly, for years on end, and still play the game.. for years on end. It's gotten so cliche' that other gamers are sicks of it, hence the rise of a typical response of "if yo don't like it, leave" and "can I have your stuffs"
Also this means, that the other Devs will see this as the cautionary tale that it is, and a good lesson to shut up. Some view themselves as internet personalities, and I hope they have the common sense to have "Public" accounts for these antics, and a private account for keeping in touch with friends/family.
Just saying.. nothing good will come of this.. but you get what you deserve I guess.
I think some good will come of it. People need to stop treating social media like they do and act like they are anonymous internet denizens on it. It will make people potentially have to grow up in the digital age a bit more and try and find some level of maturity and social discourse that shows they have some manners and etiquette.
I think the only cautionary take from this whole thing is to not act like a jackass online if you aren't going to make sure you are anonymous with no connection to the company you work for online realistically.
The speed at which she got fired indicates a fed up boss. If there is a victim in this whole case, that is the male developer that chose to share her fate. If there is a cautionary tale, it is not to back up nasty people, since they'll drag you at the bottom with them.
The speed at which she got fired indicates a fed up boss. If there is a victim in this whole case, that is the male developer that chose to share her fate. If there is a cautionary tale, it is not to back up nasty people, since they'll drag you at the bottom with them.
Knowing his reputation as a friendly, humorous, well-loved developer, I strongly suspect that Fries was only trying to calm the situation. Logically, getting Price to back off and chill is an impossibility - she's clearly too much of a bitch for that. The easiest way to avert a potential PR disaster would have been to satiate the customers, who up until that point had been nothing but polite. That he got fired would show that he did so poorly, or more likely should not have gotten involved at all.
The speed at which she got fired indicates a fed up boss. If there is a victim in this whole case, that is the male developer that chose to share her fate. If there is a cautionary tale, it is not to back up nasty people, since they'll drag you at the bottom with them.
Knowing his reputation as a friendly, humorous, well-loved developer, I strongly suspect that Fries was only trying to calm the situation. Logically, getting Price to back off and chill is an impossibility - she's clearly too much of a bitch for that. The easiest way to avert a potential PR disaster would have been to satiate the customers, who up until that point had been nothing but polite. That he got fired would show that he did so poorly, or more likely should not have gotten involved at all.
Should not have gotten involved at all.
Which is the lesson here kiddos.. do not get involved with the clients unless you are paid to do it.. it's your job.. leave it at the desk.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
The speed at which she got fired indicates a fed up boss. If there is a victim in this whole case, that is the male developer that chose to share her fate. If there is a cautionary tale, it is not to back up nasty people, since they'll drag you at the bottom with them.
Knowing his reputation as a friendly, humorous, well-loved developer, I strongly suspect that Fries was only trying to calm the situation. Logically, getting Price to back off and chill is an impossibility - she's clearly too much of a bitch for that. The easiest way to avert a potential PR disaster would have been to satiate the customers, who up until that point had been nothing but polite. That he got fired would show that he did so poorly, or more likely should not have gotten involved at all.
Should not have gotten involved at all.
Which is the lesson here kiddos.. do not get involved with the clients unless you are paid to do it.. it's your job.. leave it at the desk.
That's likely a good lesson for anyone not specifically trained in customer service. You can literally make things worse without even knowing or meaning to.
I think the OP glosses over how blatantly rude the Anet employee was and implies some shades of grey in the issue that aren't really there.
It's honestly been kind of shocking how the gaming media has responded. Anet President's statement is the most accurate I've seen, oddly enough:
"Whatever Jessica and Peter felt internally about the situation, this was objectively a customer engaging us respectfully and professionally, presenting a suggestion for our game. Any response from our company needed to be respectful and professional. A perceived slight doesn’t give us license to attack.
We’ve all dedicated our careers to entertaining people, to making games for the purpose of delighting those who play them. We generally have a wonderful relationship with our community, and that’s a point of pride for us. We want to hear from our players. It’s not acceptable that an attempted interaction with our company — in this case a polite game suggestion — would be met with open hostility and derision from us. That sets a chilling precedent."
Price is so off-base in her interpretation of the events that it's sad. Deroir engaged her because he literally considered her his favorite ANet dev. That's the exact opposite reason she chooses to believe he engaged her, despite every bit of evidence speaking to the contrary. Polygon literally included the statement without including any kind of commentary on what it says or whether it seemed accurate. They glossed over it in favor of making the entire article out like Deroir is a misogynist asshole for even responding to her.
The speed at which she got fired indicates a fed up boss. If there is a victim in this whole case, that is the male developer that chose to share her fate. If there is a cautionary tale, it is not to back up nasty people, since they'll drag you at the bottom with them.
Knowing his reputation as a friendly, humorous, well-loved developer, I strongly suspect that Fries was only trying to calm the situation. Logically, getting Price to back off and chill is an impossibility - she's clearly too much of a bitch for that. The easiest way to avert a potential PR disaster would have been to satiate the customers, who up until that point had been nothing but polite. That he got fired would show that he did so poorly, or more likely should not have gotten involved at all.
Should not have gotten involved at all.
Which is the lesson here kiddos.. do not get involved with the clients unless you are paid to do it.. it's your job.. leave it at the desk.
That's likely a good lesson for anyone not specifically trained in customer service. You can literally make things worse without even knowing or meaning to.
Like this quote attributed to Warren Buffet:
"It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently."
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Price is so off-base in her interpretation of the events that it's sad. Deroir engaged her because he literally considered her his favorite ANet dev. That's the exact opposite reason she chooses to believe he engaged her, despite every bit of evidence speaking to the contrary. Polygon literally included the statement without including any kind of commentary on what it says or whether it seemed accurate. They glossed over it in favor of making the entire article out like Deroir is a misogynist asshole for even responding to her.
I've lost a lot of respect for most gaming outlets after this. Just read a piece by Eurogamer on how Price got no warning of her dismissal, painting the whole situation as mismanagement on ANet's part. What kind of warning were they expecting? If you mess up, I've seen people having to leave offices minutes after being notified. It's quite biased journalism.
What irks me the most though, is that I genuinely care about equal opportunities regardless of gender. I spend my off-time working for charities that aim to make education more accessible throughout society. Last night, I went on a date with a girl who is an investigative journalist and a feminist. She genuinely cares about gender issues in China, literally devoting years of her life to understanding the social interactions and then reporting on those in an unbiased way. I have the utmost respect for people like her, whose work is even harder because people cry wolf and the media supports the convoluted arguments.
I think the OP glosses over how blatantly rude the Anet employee was and implies some shades of grey in the issue that aren't really there.
It's honestly been kind of shocking how the gaming media has responded. Anet President's statement is the most accurate I've seen, oddly enough:
"Whatever Jessica and Peter felt internally about the situation, this was objectively a customer engaging us respectfully and professionally, presenting a suggestion for our game. Any response from our company needed to be respectful and professional. A perceived slight doesn’t give us license to attack.
We’ve all dedicated our careers to entertaining people, to making games for the purpose of delighting those who play them. We generally have a wonderful relationship with our community, and that’s a point of pride for us. We want to hear from our players. It’s not acceptable that an attempted interaction with our company — in this case a polite game suggestion — would be met with open hostility and derision from us. That sets a chilling precedent."
Price is so off-base in her interpretation of the events that it's sad. Deroir engaged her because he literally considered her his favorite ANet dev. That's the exact opposite reason she chooses to believe he engaged her, despite every bit of evidence speaking to the contrary. Polygon literally included the statement without including any kind of commentary on what it says or whether it seemed accurate. They glossed over it in favor of making the entire article out like Deroir is a misogynist asshole for even responding to her.
The real tragedy here is how Deroir must of felt. I can't imagine what it must have been like to be torn apart by his own hero. I know from a third hand account that one of the other streamers that Price attacked had a nervous breakdown over the incident.
The real tragedy here is how Deroir must of felt. I can't imagine what it must have been like to be torn apart by his own hero. I know from a third hand account that one of the other streamers that Price attacked had a nervous breakdown over the incident.
Well hero is a big word but I always loved the videos of RipperX and Hiveleader. Both of them posted on the forum at one point and both of them came across as a person who had little in common with the funny eloquent guy from the clips.
The real tragedy here is how Deroir must of felt. I can't imagine what it must have been like to be torn apart by his own hero. I know from a third hand account that one of the other streamers that Price attacked had a nervous breakdown over the incident.
Well hero is a big word but I always loved the videos of RipperX and Hiveleader. Both of them posted on the forum at one point and both of them came across as a person who had little in common with the funny eloquent guy from the clips.
Okay, yes. Hero is a big word, but also fits the circumstance. Deroir had previously expressed admiration for Price, calling her one of his favorite developers and admiring the openness and insight of her responses on the recent AMA. As a youtuber and official GW2 partner whose career is in large part built on lore, he was in a position to idolize such figures.
The way she responded to him was nothing short of a betrayal of his respect for her. That would hurt.
That would be the equivalent of me, as an aspiring writer, meeting one of my idols. What if I met my favorite author, Brandon Sanderson, for whom I have a great deal of admiration, and he responded to me in the way that Price responded to Deroir? It would be a huge blow to my confidence, because I regard such a person as a personal hero, regardless of whether or not he rescues kittens from trees and jumps into burning buildings.
I posted on the GW2 forum but my post, along with many (hundreds) other was removed (got a warning in the proces )
Sure JF/PF acted exteremely stupid. If Anet had acted/warned when JF posted her hateful TB commentary, I would have respected that - As things stand, Anet/MO reacted ONLY when an Internet-MOB was headed towards THEIR product.
The tally of posts showing unconditional player-support on GW2 forums "might" be a little bit mod-skewed
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!! (repeat ad infinitum)
I posted on the GW2 forum but my post, along with many (hundreds) other was removed (got a warning in the proces )
Sure JF/PF acted exteremely stupid. If Anet had acted/warned when JF posted her hateful TB commentary, I would have respected that - As things stand, Anet/MO reacted ONLY when an Internet-MOB was headed towards THEIR product.
The tally of posts showing unconditional player-support on GW2 forums "might" be a little bit mod-skewed
How was it confirmed they didn't speak with her internally about the issue?
I posted on the GW2 forum but my post, along with many (hundreds) other was removed (got a warning in the proces )
Sure JF/PF acted exteremely stupid. If Anet had acted/warned when JF posted her hateful TB commentary, I would have respected that - As things stand, Anet/MO reacted ONLY when an Internet-MOB was headed towards THEIR product.
The tally of posts showing unconditional player-support on GW2 forums "might" be a little bit mod-skewed
How was it confirmed they didn't speak with her internally about the issue?
No confirmation on anything on my end - But ask yourself: What did Peter do prior to this or can you enlighten us with some inside info?
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!! (repeat ad infinitum)
I posted on the GW2 forum but my post, along with many (hundreds) other was removed (got a warning in the proces )
Sure JF/PF acted exteremely stupid. If Anet had acted/warned when JF posted her hateful TB commentary, I would have respected that - As things stand, Anet/MO reacted ONLY when an Internet-MOB was headed towards THEIR product.
The tally of posts showing unconditional player-support on GW2 forums "might" be a little bit mod-skewed
How was it confirmed they didn't speak with her internally about the issue?
No confirmation on anything on my end - But ask yourself: What did Peter do prior to this or can you enlighten us with some inside info?
We don't, but that's why it's hard to comment from the outside looking in on either firing (except to say that Price was absolutely wrong for picking Deroir out of a crowd to try and publicly shame him). As it stands, O'Brien addressed the reason the firing came the next day in his statement: no one was working in the office the day she tweeted. They did it the very next day, when everyone returned from the holiday.
I posted on the GW2 forum but my post, along with many (hundreds) other was removed (got a warning in the proces )
Sure JF/PF acted exteremely stupid. If Anet had acted/warned when JF posted her hateful TB commentary, I would have respected that - As things stand, Anet/MO reacted ONLY when an Internet-MOB was headed towards THEIR product.
The tally of posts showing unconditional player-support on GW2 forums "might" be a little bit mod-skewed
1) We do not know if JP was reprimanded internally over the TB commentary or any other controversial rhetoric.
2) We do not know if Arenanet even noticed the TB commentary or any other similar rhetoric.
3) We do not know if the TB commentary violated any of the existing guidelines that Anet has in place.
4) Arenanet was closed for the 4th of July holiday during the early phases of the shit storm. They did not have the capacity to reprimand or fire her before it blew out of proportion.
I posted on the GW2 forum but my post, along with many (hundreds) other was removed (got a warning in the proces )
Sure JF/PF acted exteremely stupid. If Anet had acted/warned when JF posted her hateful TB commentary, I would have respected that - As things stand, Anet/MO reacted ONLY when an Internet-MOB was headed towards THEIR product.
The tally of posts showing unconditional player-support on GW2 forums "might" be a little bit mod-skewed
1) We do not know if JP was reprimanded internally over the TB commentary or any other controversial rhetoric.
2) We do not know if Arenanet even noticed the TB commentary or any other similar rhetoric.
3) We do not know if the TB commentary violated any of the existing guidelines that Anet has in place.
4) Arenanet was closed for the 4th of July holiday during the early phases of the shit storm. They did not have the capacity to reprimand or fire her before it blew out of proportion.
Correct (I sure don't)
Correct (same)
Correct, but (IMO) it was beyond distasteful.
Sure - That should have left a window open for "do we act kneejerk reactively or do we try to solve this thing responsibly reflecting on prior public behavior?)
If you fire an employee of 12 years, for supporting an (abusive/hysterical/off the charts) coworker on twitter in a single incident... Oh well - MOB might deem that MOB-adherence no matter how you hope to spin it!
Just to spell it out: I wonder what made this (public knowledge) single incident in 12 years, ground for termination of Peter Fries?
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!! (repeat ad infinitum)
Just to spell it out: I wonder what made this (public knowledge) single incident in 12 years, ground for termination of Peter Fries?
Yeah you are right to wonder and ponder about it.
I can tell you one thing: They wouldn't easily let go of a high level dev who is good at his job and has many years of in-house knowledge and experience without a very very good reason. People like that are extremely valuable, as is not letting their knowledge and skill go to a competitor. There must have been more going on behind the scenes than we know of.
I posted on the GW2 forum but my post, along with many (hundreds) other was removed (got a warning in the proces )
Sure JF/PF acted exteremely stupid. If Anet had acted/warned when JF posted her hateful TB commentary, I would have respected that - As things stand, Anet/MO reacted ONLY when an Internet-MOB was headed towards THEIR product.
The tally of posts showing unconditional player-support on GW2 forums "might" be a little bit mod-skewed
1) We do not know if JP was reprimanded internally over the TB commentary or any other controversial rhetoric.
2) We do not know if Arenanet even noticed the TB commentary or any other similar rhetoric.
3) We do not know if the TB commentary violated any of the existing guidelines that Anet has in place.
4) Arenanet was closed for the 4th of July holiday during the early phases of the shit storm. They did not have the capacity to reprimand or fire her before it blew out of proportion.
Correct (I sure don't)
Correct (same)
Correct, but (IMO) it was beyond distasteful.
Sure - That should have left a window open for "do we act kneejerk reactively or do we try to solve this thing responsibly reflecting on prior public behavior?)
If you fire an employee of 12 years, for supporting an (abusive/hysterical/off the charts) coworker on twitter in a single incident... Oh well - MOB might deem that MOB-adherence no matter how you hope to spin it!
Just to spell it out: I wonder what made this (public knowledge) single incident in 12 years, ground for termination of Peter Fries?
Again, we don't know. He could literally have been misguide enough about the situation himself to tell ANet he wasn't sticking around anyways if Price was fired, for all we know.
Personally, in O'Brien's position, with the information we have publicly, I would've opted otherwise. But who's to say he didn't do it specifically to avoid appearing to lend legitimacy to Price's "woe is me" spiel? That would be yet another sad piece of irony created by Price herself. It's not far-fetched to say Price would've used that against the company, too. She already misrepresented Fries' statements on Twitter to support her misguided position.
We just don't know. Likely won't ever know the internal conversations had.
I posted on the GW2 forum but my post, along with many (hundreds) other was removed (got a warning in the proces )
Sure JF/PF acted exteremely stupid. If Anet had acted/warned when JF posted her hateful TB commentary, I would have respected that - As things stand, Anet/MO reacted ONLY when an Internet-MOB was headed towards THEIR product.
The tally of posts showing unconditional player-support on GW2 forums "might" be a little bit mod-skewed
1) We do not know if JP was reprimanded internally over the TB commentary or any other controversial rhetoric.
2) We do not know if Arenanet even noticed the TB commentary or any other similar rhetoric.
3) We do not know if the TB commentary violated any of the existing guidelines that Anet has in place.
4) Arenanet was closed for the 4th of July holiday during the early phases of the shit storm. They did not have the capacity to reprimand or fire her before it blew out of proportion.
Correct (I sure don't)
Correct (same)
Correct, but (IMO) it was beyond distasteful.
Sure - That should have left a window open for "do we act kneejerk reactively or do we try to solve this thing responsibly reflecting on prior public behavior?)
If you fire an employee of 12 years, for supporting an (abusive/hysterical/off the charts) coworker on twitter in a single incident... Oh well - MOB might deem that MOB-adherence no matter how you hope to spin it!
Just to spell it out: I wonder what made this (public knowledge) single incident in 12 years, ground for termination of Peter Fries?
Because if they didn't fire Fries, it would have just fed into Price's rhetoric that she was being targeted because she was a woman.. they pretty much had to fire them both or else look sexist, and that would have given Price grounds to sue them for wrongful termination.
In the end, Fries was some poor bastard caught in the crossfire, because he tried to be a voice of reason among the unreasonable.
Lesson here folks.. if Devs don't want to deal with this public.. this is why.
Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.
We all know Social media is a quagmire of scum and villainy. The temptation to go full keyboard warrior, the white knights, and flaming.
Yeah an thats what jessica price did. So she got canned for it.
Ya cant claim ta be against flaming but only when its directed against people ya like. Price might be a developer and also a woman but that dont mean what she did was right or that because people are shoutin at her theyre automatically wrong or all hate women. An tryin ta cover for bad stuff will just cause the tidal wave of flamin in the opposite direction to be even larger. Ya gotta stand up all the time for the principles themselves. Not just when it suits.
Removin price was a blow against villainy. Tha thing this blog says it wants. As would be bannin from twitter anyone who threw women hatin stuff at her or other developers just cuz of their gender.
Bloody hell, this is going again, I did not see Bill's twenty pages and thought it was a new one that you guys had knocked out overnight while I was sleeping.
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That was where she went right down the crapper.
It does not matter what her views where, what level of SJW she may have been, her views on sexism, being a woman in the industry, or what have you, all of that is vastly irrelevant, as lets get real, most of us don't care what these people are like on their private time as long as they can make a good game. If they are Tree Hugging Cross Fit Vegans.. I don't need to know this as long as they can make a good game. Which means, what she did that was so wrong, was allow her real self, with her real feelings, to be seen by the customer and general public.
Truth is, most CS people could not survive that, as, after slogging in the trenches, we get fed up. No, we don't want to put on the pretty smile and tell you how great you are, because, really, does anyone really think their Service Provider thinks they are great people?
Now with games, it does seem like they have a special kind of hell, where their clients will spew hate upon them, and not cancel the service. Never quite got that, I mean I see people just dump hate upon the game, and everyone that makes it, and all this, endlessly, for years on end, and still play the game.. for years on end. It's gotten so cliche' that other gamers are sicks of it, hence the rise of a typical response of "if yo don't like it, leave" and "can I have your stuffs"
Also this means, that the other Devs will see this as the cautionary tale that it is, and a good lesson to shut up. Some view themselves as internet personalities, and I hope they have the common sense to have "Public" accounts for these antics, and a private account for keeping in touch with friends/family.
Just saying.. nothing good will come of this.. but you get what you deserve I guess.
I think the only cautionary take from this whole thing is to not act like a jackass online if you aren't going to make sure you are anonymous with no connection to the company you work for online realistically.
Which is the lesson here kiddos.. do not get involved with the clients unless you are paid to do it.. it's your job.. leave it at the desk.
"Whatever Jessica and Peter felt internally about the situation, this was objectively a customer engaging us respectfully and professionally, presenting a suggestion for our game. Any response from our company needed to be respectful and professional. A perceived slight doesn’t give us license to attack.
We’ve all dedicated our careers to entertaining people, to making games for the purpose of delighting those who play them. We generally have a wonderful relationship with our community, and that’s a point of pride for us. We want to hear from our players. It’s not acceptable that an attempted interaction with our company — in this case a polite game suggestion — would be met with open hostility and derision from us. That sets a chilling precedent."
https://www.polygon.com/2018/7/9/17549492/arenanet-jessica-price-guild-wars-2-writer-fired
Price is so off-base in her interpretation of the events that it's sad. Deroir engaged her because he literally considered her his favorite ANet dev. That's the exact opposite reason she chooses to believe he engaged her, despite every bit of evidence speaking to the contrary. Polygon literally included the statement without including any kind of commentary on what it says or whether it seemed accurate. They glossed over it in favor of making the entire article out like Deroir is a misogynist asshole for even responding to her.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
What irks me the most though, is that I genuinely care about equal opportunities regardless of gender. I spend my off-time working for charities that aim to make education more accessible throughout society. Last night, I went on a date with a girl who is an investigative journalist and a feminist. She genuinely cares about gender issues in China, literally devoting years of her life to understanding the social interactions and then reporting on those in an unbiased way. I have the utmost respect for people like her, whose work is even harder because people cry wolf and the media supports the convoluted arguments.
Both of them posted on the forum at one point and both of them came across as a person who had little in common with the funny eloquent guy from the clips.
The way she responded to him was nothing short of a betrayal of his respect for her. That would hurt.
That would be the equivalent of me, as an aspiring writer, meeting one of my idols. What if I met my favorite author, Brandon Sanderson, for whom I have a great deal of admiration, and he responded to me in the way that Price responded to Deroir? It would be a huge blow to my confidence, because I regard such a person as a personal hero, regardless of whether or not he rescues kittens from trees and jumps into burning buildings.
Sure JF/PF acted exteremely stupid. If Anet had acted/warned when JF posted her hateful TB commentary, I would have respected that - As things stand, Anet/MO reacted ONLY when an Internet-MOB was headed towards THEIR product.
The tally of posts showing unconditional player-support on GW2 forums "might" be a little bit mod-skewed
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!!
(repeat ad infinitum)
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!!
(repeat ad infinitum)
2) We do not know if Arenanet even noticed the TB commentary or any other similar rhetoric.
3) We do not know if the TB commentary violated any of the existing guidelines that Anet has in place.
4) Arenanet was closed for the 4th of July holiday during the early phases of the shit storm. They did not have the capacity to reprimand or fire her before it blew out of proportion.
- Correct (I sure don't)
- Correct (same)
- Correct, but (IMO) it was beyond distasteful.
- Sure - That should have left a window open for "do we act kneejerk reactively or do we try to solve this thing responsibly reflecting on prior public behavior?)
If you fire an employee of 12 years, for supporting an (abusive/hysterical/off the charts) coworker on twitter in a single incident... Oh well - MOB might deem that MOB-adherence no matter how you hope to spin it!Just to spell it out: I wonder what made this (public knowledge) single incident in 12 years, ground for termination of Peter Fries?
We dont need casuals in our games!!! Errm... Well we DO need casuals to fund and populate our games - But the games should be all about "hardcore" because: We dont need casuals in our games!!!
(repeat ad infinitum)
I can tell you one thing:
They wouldn't easily let go of a high level dev who is good at his job and has many years of in-house knowledge and experience without a very very good reason.
People like that are extremely valuable, as is not letting their knowledge and skill go to a competitor.
There must have been more going on behind the scenes than we know of.
Personally, in O'Brien's position, with the information we have publicly, I would've opted otherwise. But who's to say he didn't do it specifically to avoid appearing to lend legitimacy to Price's "woe is me" spiel? That would be yet another sad piece of irony created by Price herself. It's not far-fetched to say Price would've used that against the company, too. She already misrepresented Fries' statements on Twitter to support her misguided position.
We just don't know. Likely won't ever know the internal conversations had.
In the end, Fries was some poor bastard caught in the crossfire, because he tried to be a voice of reason among the unreasonable.
Lesson here folks.. if Devs don't want to deal with this public.. this is why.
Yeah an thats what jessica price did. So she got canned for it.
Ya cant claim ta be against flaming but only when its directed against people ya like. Price might be a developer and also a woman but that dont mean what she did was right or that because people are shoutin at her theyre automatically wrong or all hate women. An tryin ta cover for bad stuff will just cause the tidal wave of flamin in the opposite direction to be even larger. Ya gotta stand up all the time for the principles themselves. Not just when it suits.
Removin price was a blow against villainy. Tha thing this blog says it wants. As would be bannin from twitter anyone who threw women hatin stuff at her or other developers just cuz of their gender.