Just give Sylvanas and her fans the faction they have wanted so long. Ok, redo the other 2 factions and add one. Just blow up factions and start over with new factions after this war:
Alliance - Humans, Dwarves (Both), Worgen, Pandaren, Tauren, Draenei (Both), Night Elves Horde - Orcs, Trolls (Both), Goblins, Gnomes, Pandaren The Scourge (New Faction) - Forsaken, Death Knights (No Matter Race), Vrykuls New Elven Empire (New Faction) - Blood Elves, Void Elves, Nightborne
"Beliefs don't change facts. Facts, if you're reasonable, should change your beliefs."
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
I played through the story on both sides now, and my opinion hasn't changed. I don't see how orcs or tauren would approve such an aggression without honor.
Conquering to get total control on Kalimdor? Yeah, why not. But burning thousands of innocent civilians alive? No way.
But they don't agree, they follow their Warchief but you see a clear divide appearing. Hell, Malfurion would be dead elsewise.
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
Played through the pre-patch quests on my Lock this weekend.. All I can say is good thing I made him Undead... Because otherwise, I would've felt quite guilty about how Darkshore plays out. I mean you're getting lines from the Alliance NPCs along the lines of: "I don't want to kill you, but I will if I must!" and "You truly have no honor."
It's pretty clear the NE were caught completely off-guard by the Horde's aggression and did not have any desire to fight with their recent allies against the Legion.
Honestly, read "A Good War" (novella linked 2 posts or so up). It provides a whole 'nother perspective and might give the "Saurfang fanfolk" another perspective on him as well. It's not great art, but it's a decent story.
I've read it, and at NO point Sylvanas mentioned her intention to burn everyone alive. She actually deceives Saufang about her true intent by making he believe they would keep Darnassus as hostage during their long talk on the first page.
Yea, I read Sylv's rationale there and can agree, it's a sound tactical move... Until you decide to go AWOL and just burn the entire tree down immediately. Now, Tyrande has already accepted Teld is lost and is headed, with Malf in tow, to the safest place in Azeroth for a member of the Alliance. How does that help the Horde achieve the goal Sylvanas set out before Saurfang, exactly?
Just give Sylvanas and her fans the faction they have wanted so long. Ok, redo the other 2 factions and add one. Just blow up factions and start over with new factions after this war:
Alliance - Humans, Dwarves (Both), Worgen, Pandaren, Tauren, Draenei (Both), Night Elves Horde - Orcs, Trolls (Both), Goblins, Gnomes, Pandaren The Scourge (New Faction) - Forsaken, Death Knights (No Matter Race), Vrykuls New Elven Empire (New Faction) - Blood Elves, Void Elves, Nightborne
Geez....disparaging Sylvanas fans? Do you talk that way to Loki fans too? Sometimes people like the ultimate evil, not because they're evil or do bad stuff in real life, but because sometimes evil's just more interesting in fictional stories. I'm disappointed in the way you said what you did
That said, you left off Demon Hunters that would also fit into the "Scourge" aesthetic, though I hate that moniker and am sure a better one could be found.
Just give Sylvanas and her fans the faction they have wanted so long. Ok, redo the other 2 factions and add one. Just blow up factions and start over with new factions after this war:
Alliance - Humans, Dwarves (Both), Worgen, Pandaren, Tauren, Draenei (Both), Night Elves Horde - Orcs, Trolls (Both), Goblins, Gnomes, Pandaren The Scourge (New Faction) - Forsaken, Death Knights (No Matter Race), Vrykuls New Elven Empire (New Faction) - Blood Elves, Void Elves, Nightborne
Geez....disparaging Sylvanas fans? Do you talk that way to Loki fans too? Sometimes people like the ultimate evil, not because they're evil or do bad stuff in real life, but because sometimes evil's just more interesting in fictional stories. I'm disappointed in the way you said what you did
That said, you left off Demon Hunters that would also fit into the "Scourge" aesthetic, though I hate that moniker and am sure a better one could be found.
I'm all for rewriting factions, tbh.
Uhm.... Loki is dead.... Er went to live on a farm.
I know, but he wasn't for a long time. I just find that evil has more nuance and dimension than the "Lawful Good Overdrive", in particular as it is portrayed in WoW.
I've never really played the horde cause i've never understood that "alliance". I really don't see the undead wanting anything else but to turn every living being in to an undead, just doesn't make sense to me... and orcs, taurens, trolls, goblins, they're all alive, why would the horde choose an undead as a warchief. Some of it is just bad writing...
Did you play the Warcraft RTS games? Their origin was actually more interesting than the alliance imo.
I chose the horde mainly to play a tauren warrior, but also because I can play tons of games built around alliances of men and elves. So I wanted something different. That's also why I'm not a big fan of the human factions in Total War:Warhammer.
If WOW wasn't built around a two faction system, I'd expect alliances more along the line of Tauren/Night Elves, Orc/Troll, Dwarf/Gnome with Humans, Blood Elves, Goblins, Draenei and Forsaken being more independent.
I Can't be the only person who honestly does not give a shit what the story or lore is in WOW or any MMO for that matter, Am I ? Been playing since Vanilla and barely read quest text, If it wasn't for animated cut scene's i still wouldn't know the stormwind king is dead and his brat son now leads my gnome into battle .
For me MMO's are all about the Questing, Loot & end game. I like the thrill of getting new gear and taking down a difficult opponent. As far as who I'm fighting and why, I could care less.
Well, I suspect a lot of players are like you, but at least some players love stories and are invested in the lore, flawed as it may be. It shouldn't be a reason to be dismissive of them -- they play the game too. It's just another type of player from the type you are.
Point taken. I honestly never realized people took any game's lore that seriously.
More fascinating is horde player's concern at now being painted as "the bad guys." Some are saying they are ashamed of being affiliated with the horde.
Things must have really changed, they always were the bad guys. Sure, Alliance had their bad side, but nothing at all compared to the Horde.
All just a game to me. In EVE my characters race might have been slavers, but I didn't get concerned when CCP made it possible for an actual player to assasinate the Amarr Empress in sight of thousands of other players.
I mean, it was a nice touch, but the real lore was what the Goons were up to and would Pandemic Legion side with them or against?
Getting deeply into the story and lore does help explain how players can stick with it for so many years, like having the next volume of your favorite novel series release.
Not something I've ever done while gaming, but I can understand better the attraction.
For me Alliance was the equivalent of the Empire and the Horde was the Republic.
Constantine, The Console Poster
"One of the most difficult tasks men can perform, however much others may despise it, is the invention of good games and it cannot be done by men out of touch with their instinctive selves." - Carl Jung
Comments
Alliance - Humans, Dwarves (Both), Worgen, Pandaren, Tauren, Draenei (Both), Night Elves
Horde - Orcs, Trolls (Both), Goblins, Gnomes, Pandaren
The Scourge (New Faction) - Forsaken, Death Knights (No Matter Race), Vrykuls
New Elven Empire (New Faction) - Blood Elves, Void Elves, Nightborne
"The Society that separates its scholars from its warriors will have its thinking done by cowards and its fighting by fools."
Currently: Games Audio Engineer, you didn't hear what I heard, you heard what I wanted you to hear.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
That said, you left off Demon Hunters that would also fit into the "Scourge" aesthetic, though I hate that moniker and am sure a better one could be found.
I'm all for rewriting factions, tbh.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Philosophy of MMO Game Design