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Innovation

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  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,583
    Scorchien said:
       Rifts from Rift are just an expanded version of Wars , Which are actually quite static as you still need people to open the Tears , There is not this amazing Dynamic world taking place at all go on Prime and into the Silverwood , its completely dead and void of Rifts .. And as a sidenote .. games like UO AC and EQ were doing Public quests long before War or Rift and doing them better as they truly were not static or announced in anyway ..

    I've played Prime, and know what rifts are.

    Yes, you can trigger tears, but the tears themselves are produced dynamically, and unless you are able to control the type the rift spawned is random.

    Then there are the invasions, where entire zones are filled with dynamically spawning rifts, and footholds, and wandering packs of monsters heading toward whatever destinations they wish to assault, to the point where it is difficult to see the map underneath all the related markers illustrating the status of it all, that require coordinated effort by multiple groups of players if they wish to subdue them in time to receive the related rewards.

    It is not so minimal or mundane as you'd like to infer.
  • ScotScot Member LegendaryPosts: 24,429
    Kyleran said:
    Xiaoki said:
    Ungood said:
    I think cars have changed a lot over the years, and there have been a lot of innovations to them, but they all still have the same basic design of 4 wheels, a single driver, seats, windows, doors. One could look at Cars like MMO's. Each one is in it's own way unique, special, innovative, yet.. overall they are still all kinda the same.
    LOL I would like to see people make the same arguments for cars that they do for MMOs.

    "Back in the old days you could only go 30mph and you had to do all of your own repairs, now cars go by so fast and they drive themselves. Car manufacturers need to stop dumbing cars down!"
    Excellent example.  Over 40 years ago I was promised flying cars. Instead they are on the verge of dumbing them down so that they will drive themselves,  relegating me to being a simple passenger with no active control of the vehicle.

    I also drove recklessly with no seat belts and my girlfriend rode right next to me on the bench seat where I could drape one arm around her at all times.  Can't do any of that in most modern cars and my guess is few these days go to the drive in movie where I certainly had some great times.    >:)

    Oh yes, how many 17 year olds today do you suppose help their friends pull motors and replace transmissions with 4:11 gearboxes in a 66 Chevelle SS 396? Spent more time working on it than driving it but oh did it "go" when we did.  ;)

    Modern MMOs have pretty much gone the same way, we used to be able to create characters with varying racial and class stats, and choose differing skills, abilities and gear of varying effectiveness against multiple damage types. 

    Of course, there was a risk, you might not like the results, so you had to be careful with your choices or be prepared to re-roll.

    Some classes could fly in Shadowbane, most modern MMOs prevent it as it "screws up the balance"

    Back in the day, there was DAOC and its yet to be duplicated (well) RVR model. Today they give us GW2 and ESO. .....ugh...

    So yeah, cars and MMOs, both have gone backwards in many ways, while of course improving in minor conviences but failing to deliver real change. (I.e flying)

    I was promised jetpacks too btw......


    You lived in the good ole days. I was born in 1981 but i want to buy a classic car in the future
    One of these?


    Kyleran
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,059
    edited August 2018
    jusomdude said:
    Can people read the entire OP at least before posting? I didn't say there's no innovation in gaming since it's creation... just over the last 10 years, it has been especially lacking. Also, it's not really an innovation if it's just a gimmick of insert random game that doesn't really affect other games that come after.
    You would be surprised at how many people rarely read the OP and reply to just the title. 

    Try creating a post where the OP has nothing to do with the title. (Especially a good click baiting one).

    You find easily 35% or more of the replies clearly come from those who never read the OP.

    An equally large number never read many or even any of the other replies either, they are just too eager to share their "pearls of wisdom" with everyone else.

    ;)

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    edited August 2018
    DMKano said:
    Scorchien said:

       Trove , you cant even build in the open world but a tiny 10x10 shed and its not persistent has it is constantly taken down and moved , as there is no "World" really but a series of instanced worlds that dye ... rest is instanced .


    This is 100% incorrect. 

    You CAN build outside your cornerstone in adventure worlds, the only places where you can't build are the hub and Shadow Tower.

    Go to any adventure world and build as much as your heart desires - it won't be saved but you can sure build as you wish.

    If you want to build massive persistent worlds that are saved - club worlds are how Trove does that. There are absolutely massive club worlds that took thousands of hours to build, anyone can visit them.

    Cornerstones are 16x16x200 not 10x10 and they are also persistent and can be moved by the owner at will to any open cornerstone spot. You can have multiple cornerstone designs that you can place, if you want to experiment with different builds.

    Also dont forget that vast majority of costumes, mounts, vfx, wings, weapon/hat/face gear models are actually player made.

    Same goes for dungeons and lairs in the game - mostly player made.

    Just look at Trove reddit for player submitted designs 
    https://www.reddit.com/r/TroveCreations/
      noo .. unless they changed it , you can build , ohhh my error  you can build  a 16x16 shit  shed  vertically complete shit ..And yes everytime the world resets  its gone , and you have to place your shit shed again .. Terrible ugly building .. These limited vertical structures are torn down and moved as players complete adventure worlds,and mOve on to the next .. There is nothing persistent about it(the Cornerstones are only TEMPORARILY part of any world) , Other than your structure which needs to be placed in a new Adventure area looks the same
      SO what can you build in the Open World beside Limited to your tiny 16x16 Shed ....  NOTHING as its gone .. Lol waste of time .. And you know why its GONE .. wait for it .. Because its not a fuggin Persistent World .. thats why


      you dont seem to understand what a persistent WORLD is ..... The Club Worlds are Instanced(Private Club Worlds) ..Not part of any WORLD at all only the folks you invite in or visit  ./ period ... NOT persistent World ..  Persistent Player Private Instance(is what they are) ..Yes ..Only PERMITTED players can build in it , Not Open Not Persistent World...  Private Instance is what Club worlds are /period

       So which part of 100% incorrect would you like to change
    Post edited by Scorchien on
    Phaserlight
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Everquest Next as described would have been a true innovation in the MMORPG genre.

    An Innovation is a fundamental change not an evolution.
    GdemamiAlBQuirkyVermillion_Raventhal

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,059
    edited August 2018
    laserit said:
    Everquest Next as described would have been a true innovation in the MMORPG genre.

    An Innovation is a fundamental change not an evolution.
    Actually that is description of a revolution or disruptor I think.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinehoward/2013/03/27/you-say-innovator-i-say-disruptor-whats-the-difference/#5ed4a2f86f43

    Innovations can be broken down into two categories,  evolutionary and revolutionary. 

    http://www.reinventioninc.com/revolutionvsevolution



    [Deleted User]PhaserlightAlBQuirky

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    edited August 2018
    DMKano said:
    Scorchien said:
    DMKano said:
    Scorchien said:

       Trove , you cant even build in the open world but a tiny 10x10 shed and its not persistent has it is constantly taken down and moved , as there is no "World" really but a series of instanced worlds that dye ... rest is instanced .


    This is 100% incorrect. 

    You CAN build outside your cornerstone in adventure worlds, the only places where you can't build are the hub and Shadow Tower.

    Go to any adventure world and build as much as your heart desires - it won't be saved but you can sure build as you wish.

    If you want to build massive persistent worlds that are saved - club worlds are how Trove does that. There are absolutely massive club worlds that took thousands of hours to build, anyone can visit them.

    Cornerstones are 16x16x200 not 10x10 and they are also persistent and can be moved by the owner at will to any open cornerstone spot. You can have multiple cornerstone designs that you can place, if you want to experiment with different builds.

    Also dont forget that vast majority of costumes, mounts, vfx, wings, weapon/hat/face gear models are actually player made.

    Same goes for dungeons and lairs in the game - mostly player made.

    Just look at Trove reddit for player submitted designs 
    https://www.reddit.com/r/TroveCreations/
      noo .. unless they changed it , you can build , ohhh my error  you can build  a 16x16 shit  shed  vertically complete shit ..And yes everytime the world resets  its gone , and you have to place your shit shed again .. Terrible ugly building .. These limited vertical structures are torn down and moved as players complete adventure worlds,and mOve on to the next .. There is nothing persistent about it(the Cornerstones are only TEMPORARILY part of any world) , Other than your structure which needs to be placed in a new Adventure area looks the same
      SO what can you build in the Open World beside Limited to your tiny 16x16 Shed ....  NOTHING as its gone .. Lol waste of time .. And you know why its GONE .. wait for it .. Because its not a fuggin Persistent World .. thats why


      you dont seem to understand what a persistent WORLD is ..... The Club Worlds are Instanced(Private Club Worlds) ..Not part of any WORLD at all only the folks you invite in or visit  ./ period ... NOT persistent World ..  Persistent Player Private Instance(is what they are) ..Yes ..Only PERMITTED players can build in it , Not Open Not Persistent World...  Private Instance is what Club worlds are /period

       So which part of 100% incorrect would you like to change


    You are moving goalposts.

    Your original statement is that "you can't build in an open world" which is wrong as explained. You are free to build as you want in adventure worlds but other players can build and destroy your stuff at will - this is why cornerstones and club worlds are protected persistent build areas, otherwise everyone can just bomb the hell out of any player built structure in open world.


    The cornerstones are saved server side - so they are persistent. What is NOT persistent is their location - as they can be placed on any open cornerstone spot in the game.

    Club worlds are 100% persistent - what are you talking about instanced? 

    How is a club world different from a EQ1 zone or any game where you can go to that zone or area at will? 


    You can go to any club world at will - and it is always the same, it is not wiped as Adventure worlds are in Trove.

    There is only ONE copy of each club world - not multiple instances of it - just like in EQ1 there was one zone of East Commonlands.

    So why is a club world in Trove - which is a single copy of a zone that any player can freely travel to called "instanced" and a single zone in EQ1 for example is not instanced????

    When 50 players meet in a club world X - they all see each other because there is only one club world X not multiple instances of it.

    Yeah because club worlds are persistent just like any MMO zones that only have a single copy running and all players always go to that same zone.

    Again please learn more about Trove - your info is just wrong
    Nobody can build in Club Zones unless permitted .... the Clubs can be visited by other players .. and thats it(unless they get permission to Build)  , and if the owner shuts it down its gone , Noone can visit it then, Anyone can visit Commons in EQ anytime and play .. This is not true of Trove Clubs.. They are Private zones , That other players can visit , i did make that clear ..And yes the are Serperate from the game world Arent they .... as in Not part of the Game World ..

      I can go into any zone in EQ and experience all the content there.. I cant do that in a Trove Club now can i ..

     And the entire world is instanced is it not , i think 100  players is max  per then it generates another similar , Im not even sure it that many as most i ever have seen is 30-50 ... Really more of a mutli player game , in that sense . Minecraft can hold that many  and actually in a truly persistent World ..That every player can go into and Build and have fun ..

     You cant do that in a Club world .. and there is No Monsters or Dungeons in Club Worlds is there ... Just a couple of those worlds left from Alpha, Not a feature and not being used by 95% of the player base so non existent .. Basically ...

      So now what do these clubs really have in common with ironically your example of the "Commonlands " of EQ ..

      Lets see..   

         1 .. You Zone in ................................................/end

                 I cant Build , i cant run a dungeon / i cant craft /I cant fight mobs/ i cant do anything at all .. But look ... weeeee

      So you moving the goalposts and compaing it to an EQ zone is complete rubbish ..

     Clubs are very limited in what they do and only those permitted to can have do even do that .. Others can Just visit and look .. which is boring in about hmm 8 seconds
    Post edited by Scorchien on
  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Kyleran said:
    Xiaoki said:
    Ungood said:
    I think cars have changed a lot over the years, and there have been a lot of innovations to them, but they all still have the same basic design of 4 wheels, a single driver, seats, windows, doors. One could look at Cars like MMO's. Each one is in it's own way unique, special, innovative, yet.. overall they are still all kinda the same.
    LOL I would like to see people make the same arguments for cars that they do for MMOs.

    "Back in the old days you could only go 30mph and you had to do all of your own repairs, now cars go by so fast and they drive themselves. Car manufacturers need to stop dumbing cars down!"
    Excellent example.  Over 40 years ago I was promised flying cars. Instead they are on the verge of dumbing them down so that they will drive themselves,  relegating me to being a simple passenger with no active control of the vehicle.

    I also drove recklessly with no seat belts and my girlfriend rode right next to me on the bench seat where I could drape one arm around her at all times.  Can't do any of that in most modern cars and my guess is few these days go to the drive in movie where I certainly had some great times.    >:)

    Oh yes, how many 17 year olds today do you suppose help their friends pull motors and replace transmissions with 4:11 gearboxes in a 66 Chevelle SS 396? Spent more time working on it than driving it but oh did it "go" when we did.  ;)

    Modern MMOs have pretty much gone the same way, we used to be able to create characters with varying racial and class stats, and choose differing skills, abilities and gear of varying effectiveness against multiple damage types. 

    Of course, there was a risk, you might not like the results, so you had to be careful with your choices or be prepared to re-roll.

    Some classes could fly in Shadowbane, most modern MMOs prevent it as it "screws up the balance"

    Back in the day, there was DAOC and its yet to be duplicated (well) RVR model. Today they give us GW2 and ESO. .....ugh...

    So yeah, cars and MMOs, both have gone backwards in many ways, while of course improving in minor conviences but failing to deliver real change. (I.e flying)

    I was promised jetpacks too btw......


    I understand what you are saying, but hear me out.

    A lot of the "dumbing down" of MMO's has actually increased the versatility and options that a player has with their build. Back in the old days, races has unique stats, and some of those stats blended well with specific classes.

    IE: in EQ, High Elf Cleric was an ideal combo as High Elf had the best starting wisdom.

    This of course lead to the rise of "Cookie Cutter Builds" and that became it's own problem among MMO's

    To combat this, MMO's removed the Stat nature of races, this allowed someone to play that Half Elf Cleric, because they liked how a Half Elf Looked, without needing to be harped on by min-max players demanding the best class/race combos.

    This greatly improved the options that players suddenly have with their builds.

    screw jet backs and flying cars.. we and we have hover boards.



    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Scorchien said:
    Nobody can build in Club Zones unless permitted 
    No one could build in an EQ1 zone either unless they were a Developer permitted... Just saying.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member EpicPosts: 4,583
    edited August 2018
    There is much one can do in a Club World, provided they either built it or a member of the club. Obviously those not in the club can't come in and modify it as they please, just as one can't wander into the HQ of a guild they aren't part of and redecorate as they please. Neither will you be able to mess with the usable facilities within without the related permissions.

    None of that contradicts the everything built or placed in a Club World will be exactly as you left it when next you enter, making the environment persistent.

    As far as the 16x16 shit shed, that is a reflection of the one who placed it rather than limitations of the building system or the space allowed.

    Once I came upon a player property that had a gigantic statue of Mario from back in the 8-bit days that was an amazingly well done recreation of the character, for example.

    So, like most things in Trove, what one gets out highly depends on what one puts in.
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    edited August 2018
    Ungood said:
    Scorchien said:
    Nobody can build in Club Zones unless permitted 
    No one could build in an EQ1 zone either unless they were a Developer permitted... Just saying.
      Gee thx for pointing out ................. lol  worthless, we are all aware of that , possibly you should read the entire thread and have an understnding of the discussion , before using your one liner quips of semantics that you enjoy disrupting so many threads with
  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Kyleran said:
    laserit said:
    Everquest Next as described would have been a true innovation in the MMORPG genre.

    An Innovation is a fundamental change not an evolution.
    Actually that is description of a revolution or disruptor I think.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinehoward/2013/03/27/you-say-innovator-i-say-disruptor-whats-the-difference/#5ed4a2f86f43

    Innovations can be broken down into two categories,  evolutionary and revolutionary. 

    http://www.reinventioninc.com/revolutionvsevolution



    I didn't pick the of best words but my meaning is as simple as the definition.

    Definition of innovation

    1: the introduction of something new
    2: a new idea, method, or device :

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation

     

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Scorchien said:
    Ungood said:
    Scorchien said:
    Nobody can build in Club Zones unless permitted 
    No one could build in an EQ1 zone either unless they were a Developer permitted... Just saying.
      Gee thx for pointing out ................. lol  worthless, we are all aware of that , possibly you should read the entire thread and have an understnding of the discussion , before using your one liner quips of semantics that you enjoy disrupting so many threads with
    I did read your little exchange, but, come on, all you did was spew hateful vomit at Trove, not like you added anything more of value to this discussion then I did.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    edited August 2018
    Ungood said:
    Scorchien said:
    Ungood said:
    Scorchien said:
    Nobody can build in Club Zones unless permitted 
    No one could build in an EQ1 zone either unless they were a Developer permitted... Just saying.
      Gee thx for pointing out ................. lol  worthless, we are all aware of that , possibly you should read the entire thread and have an understnding of the discussion , before using your one liner quips of semantics that you enjoy disrupting so many threads with
    I did read your little exchange, but, come on, all you did was spew hateful vomit at Trove, not like you added anything more of value to this discussion then I did.
    Obviously your reading comp is as sharp as your wit ...

     Im also not going to get into the senseless pissing contest you get into with everyone on these forums , ive yet to see you bring anything worthwhile to any thread , other than being lol out of them ..

     Have a good day
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,059
    laserit said:
    Kyleran said:
    laserit said:
    Everquest Next as described would have been a true innovation in the MMORPG genre.

    An Innovation is a fundamental change not an evolution.
    Actually that is description of a revolution or disruptor I think.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinehoward/2013/03/27/you-say-innovator-i-say-disruptor-whats-the-difference/#5ed4a2f86f43

    Innovations can be broken down into two categories,  evolutionary and revolutionary. 

    http://www.reinventioninc.com/revolutionvsevolution



    I didn't pick the of best words but my meaning is as simple as the definition.

    Definition of innovation

    1: the introduction of something new
    2: a new idea, method, or device :

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation

     
    Well...you stated "An Innovation is a fundamental change not an evolution."

    I provided several examples showing how that statement was inaccurate. 

    Your simple definition of innovation neither supports your point nor disproves it.

    So was WOWs addition of the "new" Dungeon / Raid Finders a "new" innovation having never being seen before or just an evolution of the previous group finding tools? 

    Perhaps when they made both cross server it became a revolutionary change, or was it just an evolution of the single server tools?

    All depends on the context of what you are comparing.

    The first Ultima Online?  Clearly revolutionary.

    Shroud of the Avatar? Evolutionary, revolutionary or as many would argue, a devolution of the series?

    It's really not a subject which can be covered by a simple definition, not when many here can't reach an understanding on words such as Massively in the context of a MMORPG.

    ;)

    "True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde 

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Scorchien said:
    Ungood said:
    Scorchien said:
    Ungood said:
    Scorchien said:
    Nobody can build in Club Zones unless permitted 
    No one could build in an EQ1 zone either unless they were a Developer permitted... Just saying.
      Gee thx for pointing out ................. lol  worthless, we are all aware of that , possibly you should read the entire thread and have an understnding of the discussion , before using your one liner quips of semantics that you enjoy disrupting so many threads with
    I did read your little exchange, but, come on, all you did was spew hateful vomit at Trove, not like you added anything more of value to this discussion then I did.
    Obviously your reading comp is as sharp as your wit ...

     Im also not going to get into the senseless pissing contest you get into with everyone on these forums , ive yet to see you bring anything worthwhile to any thread , other than being lol out of them ..

     Have a good day
    Meh.. been enjoying watching you get owned in your senseless pissing content with other posters.. so.. thanks for not getting into one with me.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • UngoodUngood Member LegendaryPosts: 7,534
    Kyleran said:
    laserit said:
    Kyleran said:
    laserit said:
    Everquest Next as described would have been a true innovation in the MMORPG genre.

    An Innovation is a fundamental change not an evolution.
    Actually that is description of a revolution or disruptor I think.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinehoward/2013/03/27/you-say-innovator-i-say-disruptor-whats-the-difference/#5ed4a2f86f43

    Innovations can be broken down into two categories,  evolutionary and revolutionary. 

    http://www.reinventioninc.com/revolutionvsevolution



    I didn't pick the of best words but my meaning is as simple as the definition.

    Definition of innovation

    1: the introduction of something new
    2: a new idea, method, or device :

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation

     
    Well...you stated "An Innovation is a fundamental change not an evolution."

    I provided several examples showing how that statement was inaccurate. 

    Your simple definition of innovation neither supports your point nor disproves it.

    So was WOWs addition of the "new" Dungeon / Raid Finders a "new" innovation having never being seen before or just an evolution of the previous group finding tools? 

    Perhaps when they made both cross server it became a revolutionary change, or was it just an evolution of the single server tools?

    All depends on the context of what you are comparing.

    The first Ultima Online?  Clearly revolutionary.

    Shroud of the Avatar? Evolutionary, revolutionary or as many would argue, a devolution of the series?

    It's really not a subject which can be covered by a simple definition, not when many here can't reach an understanding on words such as Massively in the context of a MMORPG.

    ;)
    If.. we are going to go with the premise that Innovation is a fundamental change to the game.. like a revamping of how the game works then UO and EQ were the trend setters and everything else has just been an evolutionary process.. not innovation.
    Egotism is the anesthetic that dullens the pain of stupidity, this is why when I try to beat my head against the stupidity of other people, I only hurt myself.

  • laseritlaserit Member LegendaryPosts: 7,591
    Kyleran said:
    laserit said:
    Kyleran said:
    laserit said:
    Everquest Next as described would have been a true innovation in the MMORPG genre.

    An Innovation is a fundamental change not an evolution.
    Actually that is description of a revolution or disruptor I think.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/carolinehoward/2013/03/27/you-say-innovator-i-say-disruptor-whats-the-difference/#5ed4a2f86f43

    Innovations can be broken down into two categories,  evolutionary and revolutionary. 

    http://www.reinventioninc.com/revolutionvsevolution



    I didn't pick the of best words but my meaning is as simple as the definition.

    Definition of innovation

    1: the introduction of something new
    2: a new idea, method, or device :

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation

     
    Well...you stated "An Innovation is a fundamental change not an evolution."

    I provided several examples showing how that statement was inaccurate. 

    Your simple definition of innovation neither supports your point nor disproves it.

    So was WOWs addition of the "new" Dungeon / Raid Finders a "new" innovation having never being seen before or just an evolution of the previous group finding tools? 

    Perhaps when they made both cross server it became a revolutionary change, or was it just an evolution of the single server tools?

    All depends on the context of what you are comparing.

    The first Ultima Online?  Clearly revolutionary.

    Shroud of the Avatar? Evolutionary, revolutionary or as many would argue, a devolution of the series?

    It's really not a subject which can be covered by a simple definition, not when many here can't reach an understanding on words such as Massively in the context of a MMORPG.

    ;)
    I did state that and I also stated that I chose my words poorly.

    The definition is simple. The amount of ways we can diminish or complicate that definition is pretty much infinite.  

    Evolution... Revolution... Devolution... those terms are irrelevant because something can be equally innovative and not be any of those.

    No matter whether we're talking video games, cars or saw blades.

    IMHO the definition:

    1: the introduction of something new 2: a new idea, method, or device 

    https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation

    covers it quite well.

    The only debate should only be about the amount, extent, cause and effect.

     

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • GutlardGutlard Member RarePosts: 1,019
    it's not really an mmorpg issue.
    innovation is that special snowflake thing that everyone wants but no one is willing to invest in until it's already been done.
    I hate it when people use the word snowflake. 
    That and "Woke" and "Clap Back" and anything the Kardashians say or do...

    You want innovation in games, then you'll need to get woke and try Indie Devs.....oh sorry.


    Gut Out!

    What, me worry?

  • Panther2103Panther2103 Member EpicPosts: 5,779
    I think plenty of innovation happens all of the time, it's just relatively minor. Even big innovations happen frequently unfortunately you usually see this on the backend of newer games, like the way that they accommodate loading in games like Horizon Zero Dawn by loading only what you are looking at within a cone and loading everything in as you look around (with almost no way to tell it's happening) to make it easier on resource usage but you won't notice this unless you are physically looking into it.

    There are also a lot of new ideas going on in the indie scene, but unfortunately those don't get much light as a lot of people don't want to try completely new ways of playing a game, they want new ideas within the old ways of playing.  

    Innovation happens when it happens, but you won't see major overhauls of how we do things unless it's on the outside and from a big company. 
    PhaserlightScot
  • Gamer54321Gamer54321 Member UncommonPosts: 452
    edited August 2018
    I've been wondering if some people in the industry might be dyslexic, as if shunning reading and writing. Without reading and writing, or re-reading and re-writing, I can imagine that only bad and half assed ideas will come from that. Then, maybe you end patting yourself on the back most of the time thinking about ideas you try to develop.

    I've wondered if high ranking ppl at Star Citizen are dyslexic. There is no reason to believe that to be true though, but it is my personal theory.
  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432
    edited August 2018
    This thread reminds of a YouTube video I saw years ago. It is 4 years old and some of the references may be outdated.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxhs-GLE29Q

    edit
    (How do we embed videos? Or should I?)

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • craftseekercraftseeker Member RarePosts: 1,740
    Amathe said:
    Imagine trying to enjoy football where the rules change every time a game is played. Innovative, yes. Contributing to my enjoyment, no.

    Innovation is how we got to a place where no one even knows what a mmorpg is anymore, but many agree that whatever one is, it sucks.
    Yeah!
    Fortunately FIFA doesn't change the rules of football that often! Just minor changes each year.

    (Fédération Internationale de Football Association)
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